[Deck] UWR Delver

[ivanpei]

What about finding a way to add 3 Young Pyromancer? I like that you will always have a creature to equip and may not have to play as much of the bounce, get countered control that Esperblade does better.

If playing Pyromancer, it's best to just play BBD's deck directly. I'm also currently building BBD's deck and it seems like a beast in this meta. It's infinitely worse against combo but it's just more gassy in fair matchups.

[deadlock]

I want to discuss BBD's version too. Is this the right thread though or should it be discussed in a separate one. There is one in the New and Developmental category called "Pyroblade".

[Kamus]

I'm current running this list:

4 Delver
4 SFM
2 TNN

4 BS
4 Ponder
4 FoW
4 Daze
4 TC
4 Plowshares
4 Bolt
1 Batter
1 Jitte

4 Wasteland
4 Strand
4 Delta
1 Mesa
4 Tundra
3 Volcanic

[Allcoin]

I'm current running this list:

4 Delver
4 SFM
2 TNN

4 BS
4 Ponder
4 FoW
4 Daze
4 TC
4 Plowshares
4 Bolt
1 Batter
1 Jitte

4 Wasteland
4 Strand
4 Delta
1 Mesa
4 Tundra
3 Volcanic

That looks like a pretty standard list nowadays to me, Except for the 20th land that most people cut, and the 4th STP, and minus a few probes

[spector14]

Anyone can tell me why the third best Deck of the month has a obsolete primer like this?


Inviato da mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

[JPoJohnson]

The guy that wrote the primer thinks its a weak deck and has moved on to different things (miracles).

[janluis1]

I won recently a big tournament in Italy (nebraska war 2.0) with this deck. 8 swiss rounds plus top 8. the list i have made differs from other lists as i created one just for the italian metagame. I hope to write an article as soon as possible. In the meanwhile i'll post the winning list.

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 True Name Nemesis

4 ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 bstorm
4 daze
4 fow
4 lightning bolt
1 Umezawa jitte
1 batterskull
2 spell pierce
4 treasure cruise

1 polluted delta
1 misty rainforest
2 arid mesa
2 scalding tarn
2 flooded strand
3 volcanic island
3 tundra
4 wasteland


Sideboard

1 Containment preist
2 Meddling Mage
1 Etherworn canonist
1 grafdigger's cage
2 wear/tear
3 Sword to plowshares
1 electrickery
1 sword of feast and famine
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast

The power of this deck is having positive MU against Tier 1(Stoneblade Miracles and Ur Delver) decks and almost all combo decks.
Weakness of this deck is all other wasteland decks and g1 against elves and blood moon decks.

[Star|Scream]

What is the purpose of 4 probes in your list if you're not playing young pyro? Is it simply to fuel TC & gain information?

[janluis1]

What is the purpose of 4 probes in your list if you're not playing young pyro? Is it simply to fuel TC & gain information?

exactly. and some sweet interaction with meddling mage. I love probe as gives me information when i need to resolve an important spell in a given matchup.
In some matchups resolving and or protecting stoneforge mystic or true name nemesis means game over for a lot of decks.

I sided them out once against ur burn in the finals.

Another peculiar thing is the absence of STP from main deck. The reason for this deck not being liked by many players or pro players was his "schizophrenic role" in some matchups.
How can i race people with delver if i let them gain 4 life plowing a goyf and giving my opponent basically 2 timewalks?
During my testing with Tc i found out STP was not needed anymore simply because you could ignore some creatures and race them out with batterskull or resolving a TNN after recharging batteries with TC.
I decided put them in my sb since in matchups where i want daze outs the best versatile spell i found to combat those matchups is STP.

This result is not a random event since i toped at legacy championship in gp madrid and took another first place in a local tournament in Bilbao (Spain).

I really believe this list is the nuts. try it out!

[goblinsplayer]

I won recently a big tournament in Italy (nebraska war 2.0) with this deck. 8 swiss rounds plus top 8. the list i have made differs from other lists as i created one just for the italian metagame. I hope to write an article as soon as possible. In the meanwhile i'll post the winning list.

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 True Name Nemesis

4 ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 bstorm
4 daze
4 fow
4 lightning bolt
1 Umezawa jitte
1 batterskull
2 spell pierce
4 treasure cruise

1 polluted delta
1 misty rainforest
2 arid mesa
2 scalding tarn
2 flooded strand
3 volcanic island
3 tundra
4 wasteland


Sideboard

1 Containment preist
2 Meddling Mage
1 Etherworn canonist
1 grafdigger's cage
2 wear/tear
3 Sword to plowshares
1 electrickery
1 sword of feast and famine
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast

The power of this deck is having positive MU against Tier 1(Stoneblade Miracles and Ur Delver) decks and almost all combo decks.
Weakness of this deck is all other wasteland decks and g1 against elves and blood moon decks.

I'm really curious about the lack of stp in the main. One of the primary strengths of this deck is having 7-8 one mana removal spells in main to have an edge in the creature matchups, unlike the other delver decks. One thing I see some players to that I really don't like is when they try to build this deck to play a primarily tempo game. If you want to play a tempo deck, playing RUG delver is probably better than trying to adapt UWR Delver. This deck is more like a stoneforge deck that happens to incorporate delver for a better early game. It trys to exhaust the opponents resources with delver of secrets and then take over the game with powerful cards like Stoneforge, TNN, and cruise.

[janluis1]

I'm really curious about the lack of stp in the main. One of the primary strengths of this deck is having 7-8 one mana removal spells in main to have an edge in the creature matchups, unlike the other delver decks. One thing I see some players to that I really don't like is when they try to build this deck to play a primarily tempo game. If you want to play a tempo deck, playing RUG delver is probably better than trying to adapt UWR Delver. This deck is more like a stoneforge deck that happens to incorporate delver for a better early game. It trys to exhaust the opponents resources with delver of secrets and then take over the game with powerful cards like Stoneforge, TNN, and cruise.

When TC came out I had to make a decision and answer the question: what do I cut from stock list in order to make a room for it? the answer was cutting STP main deck. I personally really quite disliked the card. Was horrinle to plow a Goyf (even when was needed) when you were racing with your delvers. Moreover STP was not really performing against creature decks either. You still could have lost against a Jund deck a Bug delver deck or a death and taxes deck.those are just an example of creature decks matchups in the pre cruise era that were not quite favourable for owr deck. Finally i hated when i was drawing 5 removal hands against combo decks or when I was forced to play the control role against creature decks for the same reason.

i took the decision to not cut dazes and be another stoneblade deck. I actually like dazes against combo decks and i won many matches thanks to it. usually you want STP against decks where dazes are bad. this is why my decision to put 3 STP in the sb

[thefreakaccident]

Been playing janluis's build for a little bit. It seems rather overpowered. Anything that isn't packing 4 treasure cruises can't seem to keep up. I only ever have issues with 4x treasure cruise when I draw 3 early. Even if your opponent resolves something other than cruise, it doesn't feel very impactful. Black decks just roll over and die to the sheer card quality alone, let alone leaving them in the dust once cruises start resolving. It's almost laughable. Black is going to get pushed out of the format if this list keeps getting played.

[Tormod]

When TC came out I had to make a decision and answer the question: what do I cut from stock list in order to make a room for it? the answer was cutting STP main deck. I personally really quite disliked the card. Was horrinle to plow a Goyf (even when was needed) when you were racing with your delvers. Moreover STP was not really performing against creature decks either. You still could have lost against a Jund deck a Bug delver deck or a death and taxes deck.those are just an example of creature decks matchups in the pre cruise era that were not quite favourable for owr deck. Finally i hated when i was drawing 5 removal hands against combo decks or when I was forced to play the control role against creature decks for the same reason.

i took the decision to not cut dazes and be another stoneblade deck. I actually like dazes against combo decks and i won many matches thanks to it. usually you want STP against decks where dazes are bad. this is why my decision to put 3 STP in the sb

I like cutting STP from the MD.. Have you considered 2 forked bolt in its place? Seems like it might be appropriate for my local.

[janluis1]

I like cutting STP from the MD.. Have you considered 2 forked bolt in its place? Seems like it might be appropriate for my local.

There is no room for other removals main deck. Forked bolt is the nuts and I will probably try cutting electrickery from the sideboard to make room for it. Electrickery underperformed badly in basically all tournaments i played.
Just stay with my basic assumption: UWR Delver doesn't need Plows in order to win.To prove this i give you this evidence: I won several matches against death and taxes and UR delver G1 racing them with batterskull TNN and Jitte and forceofwilling and dazing their game winning spells or fowing their removals for protection.

Sorry guys i don't agree in cutting dazes neither spell piercies in post Gp New Jersey metagame.They overperformed for me. At the moment i'm writing combo decks dont play so much around daze anymore since not many decks are packing those in their 60. Gitaxian probe is also a vital card that lets pump your graveyard and let you "go off" with stoneforge mystic and true name nemesis.
Finally, I don't believe this is the best list. We have room for improvement expecially in the sideboard but i really believe again 4 Lightning bolts Main deck are enough to beat creature decks and im happy to not have dead slots against miracles and combo decks.

Once again: I'm playing competitive magic for just about one year and with this exact same list i won a 8 rounder tournament in italy facing opponents such ovinogeddon winner Angelo cadei,4-0 in a legacy side event at gp madrid and a 5 rounder in a legacy league in bilbao. this can't be just skill or fortune. this must be that this list works!

I don't want to convince anybody but i'm very excited this deckbuilding idea worked, at least for me.

Another peculiarity of this strategy is that i NEVER side fow out. NEVER. In the pre cruise era FOW was sided out allmost in every creature matchup. Now is different. With so much card advantage you have the luxury to keep them in and counter eventually opponent's cruises and/or using them to protect your threats. You can't imagine how many G2 and G3 i won thanks to FoW. KEEP THEM IN!

The question is how can you loose switching STP to the sideboard!?

Among the match i lost in 4 competitive tournaments i made with this deck was loosing against dark maverick with a very positive board position as a result of him drawing his 1 off turn 3 and turn 5 respectivly( thespian stage and dark depths), I lost a match against death and taxes for mana screw (this was happening before cruise era so is not a very big deal) and against rug delver because he resolved the first cruise ( this is why you should NEVER EVER PLAY LESS THAN 4).
finally i want to repeat. I agree sucks to have 3 cruises in hand expecially against combo decks. still this is rare and is worth the risk or you have chances to loose against other cruises decks.

Again this deck is not dead. I believe is very well positioned in the meta and I hope you guys support its development

[janluis1]

If playing Pyromancer, it's best to just play BBD's deck directly. I'm also currently building BBD's deck and it seems like a beast in this meta. It's infinitely worse against combo but it's just more gassy in fair matchups.

i don't agree. During my testing and my tournaments experience BBD's deck is very weak to wasteland daze and more generally to mana denial plan.
Yes, They do play 2 basics but their low land count and the need for all three colors to resolve their key spells results in loosing for missing land drops early in the game.
Surely was a deck designed to beat Miracles and Ur delver.

[dreamerzz]

i don't agree. During my testing and my tournaments experience BBD's deck is very weak to wasteland daze and more generally to mana denial plan.
Yes, They do play 2 basics but their low land count and the need for all three colors to resolve their key spells results in loosing for missing land drops early in the game.
Surely was a deck designed to beat Miracles and Ur delver.

Hey,

I really appreciate the replies and insight you gave, and I also agree with your stp in the sideboard. Since I recently acquired all the pieces to this deck, I was wondering if you could give us a brief sideboarding guide against the major tier 1 decks (delver varients, ant, storm, reanimator, lands, ec). It would be greatly appreciated

Thanks again, and cheers on all your success with this deck!

[janluis1]

Hey,

I really appreciate the replies and insight you gave, and I also agree with your stp in the sideboard. Since I recently acquired all the pieces to this deck, I was wondering if you could give us a brief sideboarding guide against the major tier 1 decks (delver varients, ant, storm, reanimator, lands, ec). It would be greatly appreciated

Thanks again, and cheers on all your success with this deck!

http://www.metagame.it/articoli-lega...ai-delver.html

this is a link to the tournament report i wrote for an italian website. Even though the article is in italian matches and cards are written in english.

for other popular deck I didn't face during this tournament I would Board as follow:

Storm

In: 2 Meddling Mage 1 Ethersworn Canonist 1 sword of feast and famine 2 pyroblast 1 red elemental blast
Out: 3 Lightning Bolt 1 1 Stoneforge Mystic 2 True-Name Nemesis 1 Umezawa's Jitte

Elves:

In: 3 Sword To Ploshares 1 Containment Priest 2 Meddling Mage 1 Ethersworn Canonist 1 Electrickery 1 GrafDigger's Cage

Out: 4 Daze 2 Spell Pierce 1----- Stoneforge Mystic 2 True-Name Nemesis (or 3 Treasure Cruises) depending on personal playstyle


Jund:

In: 3 Sword To Plowshares 1 Wear/Tear(Board the second if you see Chains of Mephistopheles and or Choke out of their SB) 1 Sword of Feast and Famine

Out: 4 daze 1/2 Spell Pierce

RUG DELVER

-4 Daze -2 Spell Pierce

+2 Pyroblast +1 Red Elemental Blast +3 Sword To Plowshares

Esper Blade without Snapcaster/Lingering Souls

-4 Daze -2 Spell Pierce
+2 Pyroblast 1 Red Elemental Blast 2 Wear/Tear 1 Sword of feast and famine
On the Draw I would probably cut 3 Gitaxian Probe for 3 Sword to Plowshares


Merfolk

-4 Daze - 2 Pierce
+2 Pyroblast 1 Reb 2 Wear/Tear 1 Containment Priest

Bug Delver( Treasure Cruise)
-4 Daze - 2 Pierce -3 Fow
+2 Pyroblast 1 Reb 2 Meddling Mage 1 Sword Of Feast and Famine +3 Sword To Plowshares

Reanimator

-4 Lightning Bolt -1 Stoneforge Mystic -1 Umezawa's Jitte -2 True Name Nemesis

+ 2 Meddling Mage 1 Ethersworn Canonist 1 Containment priest 1 Grafdigger's Cage 1 Reb 2 Pyro

Painter's Servant

-4 Daze 2 Pierce 2 Gitaxian Probe

+ 2 Wear/tear 1 Red Elemental Blast 2 Pyroblast -3 Sword To ploshares

[dreamerzz]

http://www.metagame.it/articoli-lega...ai-delver.html

this is a link to the tournament report i wrote for an italian website. Even though the article is in italian matches and cards are written in english.

for other popular deck I didn't face during this tournament I would Board as follow:

Storm
...

Thanks for the sideboarding tips, I really appreciate it. A couple of things, feel free to answer as many as you want (if any):


1) I found that every edge matters, and I believe replacing your 8 fetches with 4 misty rainforests and 4 polluted deltas is the way to go. Since all of our lands can be fetched with blue fetch anyways, we should use this to our advantage and fake BUG delver , leading them to more likely be surprised by a stoneforge turn 2. the mistys can also fake a stifle for rug devler esp if you played a delver turn 1. Also , arid mesa gives the deck away too easily,
2) Also, maybe grafdiggers cage isn't as good as relic of progentius as relic can be sided in vs most TC decks, where as i see grafdiggers only really good for reanimator or dredge, in which case relic isn't that terrible in either.
3) Often I am conflicted with two possible routes each game: The true-name bash with equip route and the Delver/daze/waste route. The two often don't overlap and I was wondering what sort of questions you ask yourself when deciding which route to take?

thanks again , and I will be repping your version of the deck at my local legacy event tomorrow! wish me luck

[janluis1]

Thanks for the sideboarding tips, I really appreciate it. A couple of things, feel free to answer as many as you want (if any):


1) I found that every edge matters, and I believe replacing your 8 fetches with 4 misty rainforests and 4 polluted deltas is the way to go. Since all of our lands can be fetched with blue fetch anyways, we should use this to our advantage and fake BUG delver , leading them to more likely be surprised by a stoneforge turn 2. the mistys can also fake a stifle for rug devler esp if you played a delver turn 1. Also , arid mesa gives the deck away too easily,
2) Also, maybe grafdiggers cage isn't as good as relic of progentius as relic can be sided in vs most TC decks, where as i see grafdiggers only really good for reanimator or dredge, in which case relic isn't that terrible in either.
3) Often I am conflicted with two possible routes each game: The true-name bash with equip route and the Delver/daze/waste route. The two often don't overlap and I was wondering what sort of questions you ask yourself when deciding which route to take?

thanks again , and I will be repping your version of the deck at my local legacy event tomorrow! wish me luck

1) the mana base (Fetchlands) I decided for this decklists are not beaing weak to surgical extraction on my fetchlands ( I saw this happening in the past) or an unlikely peething needle on 1 of my fetchlands. Honestly if you want to go with "Fake the deck route" I would go with UWR miracles fetchlands 4 flooded and 4 scalding tarn fetchbase ( some opponents were putting me on miracles because of turn 1 tundra and turn 2 scalding playing just under my dazes. Scalding tarn and volcanics fake sneak and show as well so If you really want to " Fake a deck" try to fake miracles or sneak and show.

2) I ll try relic your idea is not bad indeed expecially because i can use gitaxian to see if my opponents has a cruise hand and crack on his fifth or following spell. Also it shrinks tarmogoyfs and sharmans. yes is worth a testing.

3) Gitaxian probe here is your friend. if you see a land light hand and you are in a flood hand go for the waste route. As our deck is weak to wasteland you should use wasteland as a mana source most of the time and go for the mana denial route just if your opponent missed a land drop in early turns. against maverick and or jund is another discourse. wastelanding their duals means having a chance of loosing later in the game by a dark depths or a groove\ punishing combo.I believe your main plan against all other mana denial midrange should be TNN route( Maverick Jund Death and Taxes) as they have way too many lands and wasting them out of the game is an unlikely possibility. Against other Delver decks packing wasteland ( Bug and Rug) your main plan is not getting mana screwed out of the game. They have an advantage you dont have: the first one packs Dearthrite sharman as another source of mana and the second packs stifle to destroy your mana base.

[Tylert]

http://www.metagame.it/articoli-lega...ai-delver.html

Did you really name the deck Jeskai delver? You WoTC / SCG Fanboy!!