Current Health of Legacy Format - Viable Decks

[Holiday]

I don't see much positive news when it comes to this format. I don't think many (reasonable) legacy players would disagree when I state:
- The prices of many of the best cards is Legacy are high and continuing to increase
- Wizards seems more interested in promoting Standard, Limited, or even Modern
- Cards on the reserved list are unlikely to ever be reprinted

I've been playing magic on and off since the early 2000s. About once or twice a year I get back into it, buy a few cards from the newest sets, tweak some of my legacy or casual decks, and maybe play in a tournament or two. I'm always interested to see what the top decks are at the moment.

I've seen legacy change a lot over the years. I remember the days when flash\hulk was destroying the format (I think it was called 1.x then). On the other hand, other things haven't really changed all that much. I still see variations of what was once called "Canadian Thresh" doing well with different creatures. Landstill evolved into Miracles, people still abuse storm, and as long as Wizards continues to print bigger creatures with crazy retard strength, people will find ways to cheat them into play.

Anyways, let me actually get to the point. I am happy to still see so much diversity in the top 8s accross the board. Let's just look at the recent SCG legacy events.

These are decks that have T8ed at least 1 SCG event since December.
Sneak/Show
Ad Nauseam
U/W Control/Miracles
Elves
Esper Stoneblade
Bant
BUG variations
RUG variations
Lands
Aggro Loam (wow never thought I'd see this deck in T8 again, I used to play this)
Junk (Rock)
High Tide
Goblins
Dredge
Jund
Omni Tell
Reanimator
Belcher
Twelve Post
Merfolk
Painter's Stone
Maverick
Some others

While some of these decks are more heavily represented than other (mainly Jund, Stoneblade, BUG) there's still something to be said about the incredible diversity we see here. In my opinion, that is the true mark of a healthy format. You can argue that some of the decks above are more powerful than others. However, with a good pilot and a reasonable amount of luck these decks can be viable contenders. I'm sure someone will pick out some random deck from the list above and think "this deck sucks, it shouldn't have ever made a top 8, must have been a fluke" but you can't argue with the fact that at some point in the last 2 months it was successful.

I see a lot of bitching and whining on this forum, so just take a moment to enjoy this small positive while you can, fellow Legacy fans. There may come a day when a new deck comes along that ushers in a new Flash\Hulk-like dark age.

[wcm8]

Agreed. Decks don't often die in Legacy, they just 'go to sleep' for a period of time. New printings sometimes breathe new life into an old archetype or end up creating something completely new, adding to the existing pool 20+ viable archetypes. As you pointed out, UW Miracles is just a modern version of 1.5's UW Standstill control lists, and Goblins and Canadian Threshold continue to exist, albeit in slightly modified forms.

If one particular strategy becomes too dominating, usually there's an opposing strategy that can step in to exploit that -- e.g. Burn stomps all over most BUG lists, while it does poorly if Counterbalance is popular... which is not popular when BUG is doing well... these three being a small example of the constantly shifting, cyclical nature of the format.

Legacy is both awesome and frustrating due to huuugggeee number of viable strategies -- you simply can't sideboard for them all. Occasionally you might get paired against some weird, off-the-wall deck like Kobold Combo or Mono-W Stax and your heavily metagames (inbred) "tier 1" deck just gets rolled over.

[wcm8]

I also want to add that there is a lot of over-emphasis on deck selection and nitty-gritty card choices, and not enough emphasis on player skill and strategy-in-general. Sideboarding in particular is a huge aspect of Legacy success that is not talked about nearly enough.

Good players tend to do well, regardless of their deck choice. Poor players tend to do poorly, regardless of their deck choice.

Now, I'm not saying that Tomoharu Saito could take down a GP piloting Nourishing Lich, but assuming that a skilled player has made a decently-informed deck choice, they are bound to do well.

I think it's mostly that good players are good at capitalizing on luck and make few, if any, play mistakes, whereas poorer players don't capitalize on luck as much and are more likely to make play errors (even ones that aren't directly obvious to them).

To make a musical comparison, decks are kinda like guitars. Yes, a professional player is going to sound amazing on that Gibson Les Paul Custom, but an amateur player isn't going to make that same instrument "sing" quite as nicely (although it clearly has the capability to do so, given an experienced musician's input). Conversely, you can put that pro on a more modest instrument and they'll still sound great.

[mini1337s]

I also want to add that there is a lot of over-emphasis on deck selection and nitty-gritty card choices, and not enough emphasis on player skill and strategy-in-general. Sideboarding in particular is a huge aspect of Legacy success that is not talked about nearly enough.

Good players tend to do well, regardless of their deck choice. Poor players tend to do poorly, regardless of their deck choice.

Now, I'm not saying that Tomoharu Saito could take down a GP piloting Nourishing Lich, but assuming that a skilled player has made a decently-informed deck choice, they are bound to do well.

I think it's mostly that good players are good at capitalizing on luck and make few, if any, play mistakes, whereas poorer players don't capitalize on luck as much and are more likely to make play errors (even ones that aren't directly obvious to them).

True, but that skill comes with experience. Some people just get it, others need to grind out for a year or two before it really becomes apparent.

[Malakai]

Saito probably could win with Nourishing Lich if his opponents--and the judges--aren't paying attention.

[Holiday]

Great points, wcm. I agree there is sometimes too much emphasis on deck choice. That's why we often see the same good players doing well over and over again. It's a lot like poker in a way. Even though there's a lot of luck involved you still see good players coming out with money in the end.

I also agree there isn't enough focus on side boarding. I'm no SB expert but there are plenty of players who spend the vast majority of their time tweaking their maindeck and then just throwing 15 cards into the SB. When I see a deck running 3x Leyline of the whatever I just scratch my head.

[Lemnear]

That's why we often see the same good players doing well over and over again. It's a lot like poker in a way. Even though there's a lot of luck involved you still see good players coming out with money in the end.

Dood, after following the events of the last few years, I'm pretty sure at least 20% of the credit for the fact that we always see the same faces goes straight to cheating. Most of it happens in the early rounds of a tournament. You would not believe that I have whitnessed in almost 17 years in the game. Some peeps Even feel confident enought to cheat and bend the rules in front of cameras. There is no Sleight of hands in Poker. However, in both games peeps profit from a known name to intimidate Players into misplays or to cover their own shady plays

Edit: There is a difference between Jedi-mindtricking and spreading misinformation