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Thread: Pyromancer Ascension

  1. #21
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    claudio.r's Avatar
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Having played my fair share of modern storm before the seething song ban, i'm glad to see this thread, since i was thinking about a version that used Pyro Ascencion to power grapeshots and bolts.

    One card i thought about was Goblin Electromancer, since it allows us to go off easier without an active Pyro. Electromancer is pretty good with manamorphose and the rituals.

    To you who already tested and played this version of the deck, what's your opinion on Electromancer?

  2. #22

    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    With the losing of the critical mass of rituals maybe we can forego the storm combo approach and try a control one, burning/countering early threats while sculpting with cantrips, then droping a pyromancer to get an incremental advantage until we can finish the opponent with a couple of snapcaster attacks plus doubled or tripled burn spells to the face. For reference this list took first place in a japanase 100+ PTQ a couple of moths ago:

    Creatures [4]
    4 Snapcaster Mage

    Instants [18]
    3 Burst Lightning
    3 Cryptic Command
    4 Electrolyze
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Mana Leak

    Sorceries [12]
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Serum Visions
    4 Sleight of Hand

    Enchantments [4]
    4 Pyromancer Ascension

    Lands [22]
    1 Desolate Lighthouse
    2 Mountain
    2 Steam Vents
    3 Misty Rainforest
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Sulfur Falls
    6 Island

    Sideboard: transformational into Splinter Twin.

    It is a rather different version from the other disscused previously in this thread, but due to the little movement in the modern section I'll post here instead of creating a new one if that is ok. I will try get the cards to give it a chance in my LGS next weekend, as anyone tested something like this before? Maybe swap a burn spell and a cantrip with Noxious Revival, although is card disadvantage early on, and Manamorphose, which at least is a free cantrip fixer, so there is still a way to combo out in one turn?

  3. #23

    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Electromancer is pretty terrible. All the spells it was good with got cut.

    I've seen the Japanese list and it's interesting. I'm not sure what matchups it's supposed to be better in. It's taking a combo deck and turning it into a control deck. I don't see a real presence of combo hate that would make me want to make this decision.

    Also the transformational sideboard is pretty bad. People keep doing things to try and beat us like siding into Spellskite that we aren't affected by that Splinter Twin is.
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  4. #24

    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    I think the control approach has less to do with specific combo hate and more about how the deck so little business, just Pyromancer and some number of Past in Flames, and any delay in getting it running tends to be fatal. The combo approach could only use so many cards after filling with purely combo pieces like rituals, usually things like remands for timewalking or multipurpose bolts, so any speedbump that slows our game, like targeted discard or taxing counterspells could leave us exposed to been attacked while digging for solutions, as sadly the remaining cantrips are not as good as former ones. The control approach trades speed with the ability to reach midgame in a more comfortable position, as it fills the deck with more burn, more couterspells and Snapcaters redundancy. In my LGS I see a good fare of BG (discard+goyf beats), UWR (conterspells+flash beats) and R based blitz (competing speed) to at least try a new angle.

    The transformational sideboard, either in Twin or RU aggro is not because of random combo hate, like the Spellkites that you mentioned, but because both Ascension and PiF are totally dependant on the graveyard and in random/open metas graveyard hate is the usual choice to round-up any sideboard. I don't know if after the decline in graveyard decks like Second Sunrise, straight PiF, Melira Pod and Snapcaster UWx, people are cutting it to the point it's preferable to push the original intent of the deck that changing strategies, but I think it will be more of a meta thing now that we are out of season and each place evolves in its own way without having a competitive enviroment reference.

  5. #25
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    paeng4983's Avatar
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    RE: Electromancer
    Positive stuffs:
    -it cuts 1 generic mana off your spell's cost
    -it neutralize Thalia's taxing power.
    -a blocker that can buy you enough time to delay your opponent from depleting your life points.

    Negative stuffs:
    -waste of space in terms of interaction with Pyromancer and PiF.
    -multiple copies of it, especially during early turns, is not a good thing to see.


    *Personally, I do not use this goblin anymore because it does not do any interaction with PiF and Pyromancer.


    RE: shift from combo to control
    Well it really depends on your playing style and meta. Base from the the list that you posted, the one that is from the Japanese PTQ months ago, I would say, the deck originated from a UR control one. He just added the Pyromancer stuffs as his alternate wincon in his main deck. And judging from the look of it, I think his meta then was board pieces hate on non-creature spells and control decks.

    RE: transforming the deck from pyromancer to a twin one
    Well a cool one if you're able to kill him off guard. But as what Anusien said, it is pretty bad. Just try to use a SB-line up that suit well against your local meta.

    as for me: I still have the same list since our March PTQ: 2 shattering spree, 2 echoing truth, 3 ETW, 3 gigadrowse, 3 spellskite, 2 pyroclasm.


    After our March PTQ here, I participated in some modern tournaments and most of my loses came from thalia + one friend of hers, like thalia + aven mindcensor; another was thalia + canonist. The other one was thalia plus milira and finks; thalia + cage; etc.

    And from those lessons, I'll have a set of bolt again plus 2 more faithless looting in my main replacing 3 thoughtscour, 2 peer through depths and one epic experiment. I'll let you know more after playing in modern tournaments. ^_^
    TJB

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    TES: 102nd out of 2000 players at GP Kyoto 2015 (Legacy)

    UR Storm: 37th of 950 players at GP Guangzhou 2016 (Modern)

  6. #26

  7. #27

    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    I am really happy for seeing this deck "back". Still, there are some points I don't really understand
    Why no Epic experiment? I'm new to this deck and try it after seething song ban and find out i really like it, even when you draw only 6 cards it allows you to cast all the spells generating storm and saving mana. I do really see as a must 2 copies at least...

    Also, why only 2 copies of Leyline? If he pretended to pay them manamorphose, I think its a waste of resources. If he hoped to open in the 7 hand then maybe its fine, avoiding bad draws when other spells where needed.

    Anyway, congrats to Finkel :)

  8. #28

    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Epic experiment without seething song is just awful

    In order to generate enough mana with the current unbanned rituals for a big experiment you need active ascension(s)/started a turn untapped with a electromancer. If you are in that position you should be winning anyways.

    I dunno about the two-off leyline maybe he aggressively mulligans to it in discard heavy matchups.

  9. #29
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Quote Originally Posted by mojoiskewl View Post
    Epic experiment without seething song is just awful
    Epic Experiment with Seething Song is awful. You have to generate about. 8 mana, and it's much more prone to a Counterspell than any ither direction you could go.

  10. #30

    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Quote Originally Posted by YamiJoey View Post
    Epic Experiment with Seething Song is awful. You have to generate about. 8 mana, and it's much more prone to a Counterspell than any ither direction you could go.
    Lets just agree that epic experiment in a non ramp deck is awful

  11. #31
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Quote Originally Posted by mojoiskewl View Post
    Lets just agree that epic experiment in a non ramp deck is awful
    Epic Experiment works fine for me. It only fizzled like twice from X number of times I used this with or without an online pyromancer ascension.

    RE: 2 leyline of sanctity
    yeah, i also cannot figure out why there's two of that in his SB.
    TJB

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  12. #32
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    I like the Finkel list but I've been testing it and IMO
    -1 Electromancer
    -1 Peer Through the Depths
    -1 Grapeshot
    +3 Faithless Looting

    The 4th Electromancer goes in the side for when you expect GY hate and want to cut down on some of the card that are weak to GY removal (with 4x Ascension and 3x PiF you are really going balls in on the GY being there when you need it).

    Looting really helps the deck in a lot of ways.
    #1 - Early game it can dig through being land flooded.
    #2 - Late game lets you dig super deep and turn the many lands in your hands into gas.
    #3 - Can help fuel Ascension and PiF when you need it.
    #4 - On those occasions where you need to go off with only an assload of red mana (example 4 lands in play have to cast 2x dig spells to turn on Ascension then you can ritual for a bunch) lets you dig into more cards + Manamorphose to continue to combo out.
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  13. #33

    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Hi everyone,

    I was first interested in this deck when it was standard legal and was lead to victory in France national championship.
    Nowadays, in modern format I find it a perfect compromise between power/full cost and except for the fetchlands, I would put it in the budget category.
    So here is the deck I'm testing and happy with...but still thinking cause I do hesitate on some disappointing cards and some proportions :

    4 pyromancer ascension
    4 lightning bolt
    4 desperate ritual
    4 manamorphose
    4 peer through dephts
    4 gitaxian probe
    4 remand
    4 serum vision
    4 thoughtscour
    4 noxious revival
    1 echoing truth
    1 grapeshot
    1 epic experiment

    4 scalding tarn
    4 misty rainforest
    2 island
    2 mountain
    2 steam vents
    1 bredding pool
    1 stomping ground
    1 watery grave
    1 gemstone cavern

    Side
    4 inquisition of kozilek
    4 ancient grudge
    3 pyroclasm
    2 echoing truth
    2 gemstone cavern

    This is an ugly 61 but I'm planning to go down to 60.

    Noxious revival is a great card in this deck.
    It allows you to get back a discarded key card in the early game or to save a graveyard card if your opponent sacrifice a relic of progenitus. Or in the take off turn, it allows you to play a second grapeshot that will be lethal if you're short on spells for the lethal storm.
    But mostly, with an active ascension and combined with manamorphose it gives you an infinite loop and infinite mana of the colour of your choice. This is perfect for the storm.
    With that, you can even kill in response if you can combine with thought scour.

    Of course without the noxious combo, you're still able to create a loop with remand and manamorphose alone combined with two active ascension.

    Another strange card is gemstone cavern that can reach to 3 copies post side (if you're not on the play) in order to play a turn 1 pyromancer ascension (this is priceless).

    Here the cards I'm disapointed about :
    - remand is a poor counter, seeing opponent still casting a countered spell makes me upset. But it is absolutely necessary cause it's cantrip (and it's a combo deck and you need to draw with almost every spell to assemble the combo) and cause it's part of the combo as well. Il will stay in the deck.
    - epic experiment, of course when played with an active ascension and desperate ritual and manamorphose epic experiment can end the game in a hurry with an incredibly large grapeshot but mostly it will be playable for a poor 2 or 3 cards and sometimes these 2-3 will be 2 lands or an unuseful desperate ritual. That's gonna leave so I'll be back to 60 cards,
    - peer through depht, great to end the game with the ability to dig deep in the deck (especially with an active ascension) to find grapeshot, 4 is maybe too much furthermore it cannot find pyromancer ascension. I'm planning to go down to 2.

    Here the cards I'm thinking about for the 2 remaining slots :
    - faithless looting, even if I'm a bit afraid of the discard 2, especially in end game. Interesting cause it's red, I think it's better if you play Pif with them and I don't play PiF
    - reach through mists, a cheap draw spell that fits well with desperate ritual,
    - mana leak to get some hard counter to help remand
    - past in flames, but I find the mana cost too expensive
    - simian spirit guide, to increase the ability to play a turn 1 pyromancer ascension or to put into play if there's too much pressure when things go wrong
    - gigadrowse (these could go to the sideboard as well)

    Thanks for reading this (long) very first post. But this deck is a passion.

  14. #34
    jungle lion, good?...
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    I'm still this deck in each modern tournament I could possibly join. 3-1; 3-3; 4-0 were my results. Anyone here still uses the same?
    TJB

    http://deartiyopaeng.blogspot.com/ <---- (updated) MTG related blog. ^_^

    TES: 102nd out of 2000 players at GP Kyoto 2015 (Legacy)

    UR Storm: 37th of 950 players at GP Guangzhou 2016 (Modern)

  15. #35

    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Hi,

    quite happy to meet another player fan of this deck.
    After playtesting, I've made small evolutions to the list above :
    4 pyromancer ascension
    4 lightning bolt
    4 manamorphose
    4 sleight of hand
    4 gitaxian probe
    4 remand
    4 serum vision
    4 thoughtscour
    4 noxious revival
    3 echoing truth
    2 grapeshot
    1 peer through dephts

    4 scalding tarn
    2 misty rainforest
    2 island
    2 mountain
    2 steam vents
    1 forbidden orchard
    1 cascade bluff
    1 breeding pool
    1 stomping ground
    1 watery grave
    1 gemstone cavern

    That could be -1 grapeshot, +1 peer through depht (I'm thinking about that these days).
    Side (spells are 4 exemplars to maximize the ability to trigger ascension)
    4 inquisition of kozilek (to stop the hate graveyard before she hits the table or against combo decks)
    4 destructive revelry (against aura decks, the 2 damages are pretty sweet)
    4 anger with the gods (instead of pyroclasm, to get rid of persist creatures in pod decks, good as well against merfolk where it hits for 3 points, so it destroys everything even with a lord in play)
    2 ghost quarter (against tron decks, you can replay ghost quarter if you want with noxious revival)
    1 gemstone cavern (to try to race another deck il you're on the play)

    See you soon.

  16. #36
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Is there a reason people have stayed away from Swasey's version?

    other than the low land count? personally i'd play the 16th land somewhere and probably cut the main deck echoing truth


    1 Echoing Truth
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    1 Grapeshot
    4 Inquisition of Kozilek
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Manamorphose
    4 Noxious Revival
    3 Peer Through Depths
    4 Pyromancer Ascension
    4 Remand
    4 Serum Visions
    4 Sleight of Hand
    4 Thought Scour

    2 Island
    4 Misty Rainforest
    1 Mountain
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Steam Vents
    1 Stomping Ground
    1 Watery Grave

  17. #37
    jungle lion, good?...
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    We had two GPTs over the weekend here in Manila.
    1st was on Saturday. 18 players, 5 rds cut to top8.
    I went 5-1-2. Lossing only in the finals to a jund.

    And on Sunday. 93 players, 7 rds cut to top 8.
    I went 5-1-1. Top 8 players just split out the cash prize.

    And here's my report
    http://mtgmetasamanila.freeforums.or...g-2014-t1.html

    Thanks for reading
    TJB

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    TES: 102nd out of 2000 players at GP Kyoto 2015 (Legacy)

    UR Storm: 37th of 950 players at GP Guangzhou 2016 (Modern)

  18. #38
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    So I've been getting onto this as my combo deck of choice. My list currently looks like:

    (MDN) Pyromancer Ascension

    Draw Spells: 28
    4 Faithless Looting
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Serum Visions
    4 Sleight of Hand
    4 Thought Scour
    4 Treasure Cruise

    Business Spells: 13
    4 Noxious Revival
    4 Manamorphose
    4 Pyromancer Ascension
    1 Remand

    Lands: 19
    5 Island
    1 Mountain
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Steam Vents
    1 Breeding Pool

    Sideboard
    2 Swan Song
    1 Void Snare
    3 Ancient Grudge
    2 Remand
    4 Young Pyromancer
    3 Blood Moon

    So firstly: It's not a Storm deck. It's UR Ascension. Grapeshot and Rituals are lame. Rituals were only good for Goblins and a quick Moon, anyway. Which is usually bad because it leaves you with a single Blue for the rest of the game. So we'll cut the crap and play pure cantrips and kill from our enablers. The deck can actually kill without Lightning Bolt using Thought Scour, as there's a tonne of infinite mana loops that are really easy to find, and Noxious Revival redraws cards so you never deck. There is room to cut them down to either zero or one, as your win condition involved an infinite loop to draw your whole deck, and make infinite mana, so you only need one to win with.

    Lightning Bolt's effectiveness comes in the form of disruption. It is our only point of interaction. It kills Eidelon of the Great Revel and Ethersworn Canonist, which are just wins against us, interrupts a Perstermite/Twin or Melira combo, and can just kill random guys to buy us time. Plate up your Memnite? Bolt it. If you have an active Ascension you can start taking a more controlling roll. If you have two, you can Remand their Spells infinitely until you find a kill, which really should just happen on the next turn, but even if you brick on draws it's 2-mana "Reveal this card. Bounce a Spell, draw 2."

    After some discussion and testing, I agreed with my friend Sean on the Lands. Faithless Looting, Sleight of Hand, and Serum Visions help stave off the flood, and you lose games mostly by missing Land Drops. We can kill so effectively when we're actively casting Spells. I may look into cutting a Land and a Cruise for a pair of Tormenting Voices. They were really good during my initial testing with 15 and 17 Lands, so playing 18 Lands with a pair of Traimatic Visions seems fine.

    Treasure Cruise is obnoxiously good. I have currently not found it a problem with Ascension. I'll be testing out Dig at some point to see how that goes, but probably not before FNM tonight. I also have three foil Cruises, so I'm in no rush to cut them.
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  19. #39
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Hello there fellow Ascension storm lovers!
    I am still using the deck.
    Since September, I participated in four modern tournaments.
    Here are my results:

    8/14
    1st out of 14 players
    4-0

    9/6
    60 players
    3-1 (drop)
    Its my own tournament and I don't want to sneak into the top 8.

    10/18
    8th out of 36 players
    4-2

    10/3
    3rd out of 8 players
    2-1

    11/1
    3rd out of 18 players
    3-1-1 after swiss
    4-2-1 after semis

    I'll post again my results in the weeks or months to come.
    Happy storming everyone!

    The list that i am running btw:
    4 tarn, 3 misty, 2 vents, 3 falls, 3 island and a mountain

    4 D.ritual, 4 P.ritual, 4 manamorphose

    4 probe, 4 serum, 4 sleight, 3 thought scour, 1 peer through depths, 1 gifts the ungiven

    2 grapeshot, 2 PiF, 3 goblin electromancer, 4 P.ascension, 4 L.bolts

    SB
    2 Leyline sanctity, 2 torpor orb, 2 spellskite, 1 surgical extraction
    2 shatterstorm, 2 ETW, 2 gigadrowse, 2 void snare
    TJB

    http://deartiyopaeng.blogspot.com/ <---- (updated) MTG related blog. ^_^

    TES: 102nd out of 2000 players at GP Kyoto 2015 (Legacy)

    UR Storm: 37th of 950 players at GP Guangzhou 2016 (Modern)

  20. #40
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Hi to all, I've been playing this deck for some time now, with some decent results. However, there are some things that keeps bothering me and I would like to discuss them.
    So here my, pretty standard, list:

    4 Goblin Electromancer

    4 Pyretic Ritual
    1 Increasing Vengeance
    4 Desperate Ravings
    4 Manamorphose
    4 Desperate Ritual
    4 Serum Visions
    3 Past in Flames
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Sleight of Hand
    2 Grapeshot
    4 Pyromancer Ascension
    2 Faithless Loothing

    3 Island
    1 Mountain
    3 Shivan Reef
    4 Scalding Tarn
    3 Flooded Strand
    2 Steam Vents

    Sideboard
    1 Defense Grid
    2 Blood Moon
    1 Swan song
    3 Lightning Bolt
    3 Empty the Warrens
    2 Shatterstorm
    1 Anger of the Gods
    2 Echoing Truth

    So, in my opinion, the deck is incredibly strong and has so much potential, but it can be largely improved. I've dropped the 4 Thought Scour long time ago because I felt they were the weakest part of the deck. As all of you can see, I replaced them with one Increasing Vengeance, two Faithless Looting and one more Desperate ravings.
    I do like the single Vengeance, since it can play a multiple role during our comboing (although I often use it to get that extra drawing spell that we need to win). The two Faithless (yes I know that everybody hates them) are there to "filter" our hands when comboing, getting rid off all those dead draws that we might encounter. It's also red which, in my opinion, is easier to cast since I'll rather spend my blue mana for Serum, Sleigh or flashback Reavings. Last but not least, the fourth Desperate is my "flexible" slot; I like it, but I still think it could be something else.
    About my sideboard:

    -3 Empty the Warrens: I think three is the correct number, since I like the "turn 2 goblin rise and eat everything you see" plan.

    -1 Defense Grid: I actually like the grid quite a lot. Against control or twin is almost heaven, since they must have an answer to it.

    -2 Blood Moon: Good against jund and control ok, but I'll never mulligan for them and that's why I only have two of them.

    -1 Swan song: Meh, never been a big fan of them.

    -3 Lightning Bolt: Now THIS is my biggest question. I mean, don't get my wrong, I love them, I've just bought four BB lightning bolts and I do really want to play them, but I keep feeling they're losing weight since more people are playing that pesky Eidolon of Rhetoric or Rule of law... Those card turns a good matchup like Pod or Affinity into a nightmare. However they are helpful against Ur Delver.

    -2 Shatterstorm: The best card against artifacts

    -1 Anger of the Gods: Meh, I've tried it against Infect and Ur. It's good but not enough to stop Ur...(I mean, maybe we need two of them).

    -2 Echoing Truth: I just like to bounce stuff!

    So, in the end, I'm looking to improve my chances against Ur, Rule and Eidolon; I'll probably try two Anger and two void snare, but I don't know what to cut.
    Do you guys have been facing the same problems or am I the only one who can't play around them?
    I do apologies for my poor grammar.
    Last edited by Spam; 11-19-2014 at 06:57 AM.
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