Pyromancer Ascension

[IlCannone]

Has anyone yet considered playing UWR and fitting Mentor in this just as a second angle of attack?

I'm brewing around with a list, but want to test it first, before posting here ;)

[paeng4983]

Has anyone yet considered playing UWR and fitting Mentor in this just as a second angle of attack?

I'm brewing around with a list, but want to test it first, before posting here ;)

Before, I was playtesting the mentor as my game two sort of semi transformational thing. To sum it up, I wasn't satisfied. Most of my opponent side in anti token hate expecting a mob of goblins from etw which is bad for the tokens off MM.
And, most of the time when the 1st MM dies, it takes a long time for me to take a hold on the second one.

And as for my TRs
Last week's GPT Shang, 5rds cut to T8
I scrub-out 2-3
Rd1 loss due to late
Rd2 abzan 1-2
Rd3 affinity 2-0
Rd4 burn 1-2
Rd5 abzan 2-0

Then awhile I participated again in another shop's gpt. We only had it 4rds cut to T8.
My MUs were
Bloom 2-0
Scapeshift 2-0
Bw tokens and living end id

Q: bw tokens 0-2

Tomorrow we have another gpt on modern, hopefully i'll be able to attend that one too.

[Adan]

http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=9529&f=MO

Anyone saw this already?

[YamiJoey]

MY DECK! <3 <3 <3

Three things stand out to me here:

1) The Breeding Pool does almost nothing. It's better as a Steam Vents.
2) Cryptic, similarly, does nothing. You need 4 mana to cast it. If you have 4 mana, you either win or you're dead.
3) The rest of the decks in that T8 seem less than stellar. It's basically a bunch of brews and a poorly built Twin deck.

[Spam]

When I saw the list, I actually thought it was you Yami.

[YamiJoey]

I've been on Esper Mentor for a while now. I might screw around with some UWR Ascension Mentor build. Stormout or just make a thousand guys.

[Ghiwo]

MY DECK! <3 <3 <3

Three things stand out to me here:

1) The Breeding Pool does almost nothing. It's better as a Steam Vents.
2) Cryptic, similarly, does nothing. You need 4 mana to cast it. If you have 4 mana, you either win or you're dead.
3) The rest of the decks in that T8 seem less than stellar. It's basically a bunch of brews and a poorly built Twin deck.

Hi!
What would you replace Cryptics with? Izzet Charm? Faithless Looting? Electrolyze? Ravings? I'm asking because I'm a storm player and own basically every card to try thi version, and you seem to be the expert with it!

Thanks a lot!

[YamiJoey]

I hope to shit that wasn't a troll post. <3

That last slot can sometimes be difficult to fill, but it's often a main-decked sideboard-style card. I used to play 4 maindeck Pyromancer. They allow you to have multiple angles of attack, but also block cards like Tarmogoyf for days, until such a time that you're ready to kill. At this point; I would probably look into playing mentor. That would usually mean increasing the Land count, probably to around 20 (a number I often used to play) but Mentor is a house. Resolve one, make a thing happen, they are dead.

If you wanted something more standard, Izzet Charm would be a good call. It kills guys, Pierces Spells, and draws cards. It's everything you need.

[Ghiwo]

It wasn't a troll, I can assure you!

Great, I'll try both Mentor (as a 2-of?) and Izzet Charms. Also I remember you was playing in the Cruise-legal meta with just 1 remand and 4 Looting, while now Pascal Wagner has 4 Remands and 0 Looting. Would you still play those Lootings and just a singleton Remand? Given that we need to have as many 4 ofs as possible ancd can't play a split I suppose.

[YamiJoey]

Ah! I thought I saw Lootings in the deck. The Lootings are some of the best cards in the deck, in my opinion. I would never cut them. 4 Looting, 1 Remand is fine, as Remand + Manamorphose is a powerful combo.

[Ghiwo]

Since I'm used to traditional Storm I usually handle Rituals and PIFs, that's why I'm not in confidence with all the combos this deck has in it. I understood the infinite mana one, with 2 Noxious Revivals and 2 Manamorphoses (am I right?), but I'm unsure about the others: with Manamorphose and Remand I just get to pay 2 mana to draw 2 cards and still have Manamorphose in hand? Or am I missing something? Instead the same combo but with 2 Ascensions in play gives me infinite mana and draw my deck right?
Are there any other interactions that I'm missing?

Thanks!

[YamiJoey]

Remand + manamorphose + 2 Ascensions gets you to draw your whole deck, which then finds you the infinite mana, and infinite of any Spell combo. You are looking to assemble:

COMBO 1:
Table: Active Ascension
Hand: Noxious Revival and any cantrip
Graveyard (Or hand): 2 Manamorphose, and an additional Noxious Revival

With this, you cast Revival, putting Morphose and Revival on top of your deck.
You cast your Cantrip (-1 mana) drawing Morphose and Revival

LOOP
Cast Morphose (-3 mana) Draw Revival. (-1 mana)
In response to your Morphose, cast Revival, putting Morphose and Revival on top.
Draw the Morphose (+1 Mana)
LOOP

That is the worst entry point to the combo, and leaves you with the least flexibility coming out of it. If you don't have another card in hand, you have a couple of options:

Assuming you have a third Noxious Revival still in your deck, you cast Manamorphose to draw Revival, then Revival your best cantrip. (Serum Visions, or Visions of Beyond are the best to hit, but almost anything that generates card advantage with Ascension works. Even Faithless Looting is good if you've got a Land or two in your hand, though it can just be flashed back.) This is the only risky part. You can brick at this point and practically just lose the game on the spot, but it is highly unlikely when you're looking at 4 cards for any cantrip. At this point, you will just cast multiple cantrips until you find a Noxious Revival and another Ascension. Play Ascension, revival your combo back. Your combo will activate your Ascension. Now you go:

Noxious Revival, putting Morphose, Revival, and any Spell on top of your deck.
Morphose, draw the combo and the extra card.

If the extra card deals damage (ie. Lightning Bolt), you win with Infinite damage.

The only real advice you need on this, is that you should just state you are holding priority unless you say otherwise during your combo turn.

COMBO 2:
Morphose and Remand in hand. Double Ascension on the battlefield.

LOOP
Cast Manamorphose (-2 mana)
Draw 2 cards (+2 Mana, +2 Cards)
Cast Remand. (0-mana) The card targets the remaining Manamorphose. The first copy targets Manamorphose, the second copy targets Remand.
Return Remand, draw a card (+3 cards)
Return Manamorphose (+4 cards)
LOOP

You only need 2 mana, and every time you go around the loop you draw 4 cards for 0 mana and 0 cards. If you have a Remand or a Manamorphose, you can find a third Ascension and generate mana, and in turn a kill. This means you can still win with just a pair of Lightning Bolts left in your deck if you have no more Noxious Revivals. This is very important to know, sometimes.

The other takeaway, is that if you manage to jam a load of Ascensions on the table and activate them, you can still win if they make a RiP the turn after you miss, as your Bolts each do 9-12 damage. This rarely comes up, but again is good to know.

______________________________________

Some important points:
Ascension turns all of your Bolts into slightly better than Lava Axes. A single Ascension on the table will often mean a kill from just 3 Lightning Bolts, and with all of the Cantrips, a full set of Bolts, and a full set of Revivals, that is a trivial feat. You should be winning a good 50% of your games just by doing this. Get an Ascension on the table, activate it, and throw Lightning at their face until they die. The real kicker, is that you can also cast them as Searing Blazes if you really need to, and when it REALLY comes down to it, R: Destroy target Tarmogoyf is a very playable Spell.

The final point I will make, is that you cannot lose to the Thoughtseize/Decay decks unless they have Scooze. You are not a deck that cares about volume of cards like Storm, so Liliana is irrelevant, Thoughtseize rarely has a target that you care about losing, and if they kill an Ascension, you have a total of 8 copies of it in your deck, so you WILL find another one. This is your true advantage over regular Storm. The flip side of that, is that you are generally slower, especially due to the fact that you have no access to a T2 Blood Moon, or Empty the Warrens. This makes traditional Storm, and decks like Amulet bad Matchups. You also lose even harder to decks like UR Delver, but Storm rarely beats those anyway, so that's not a big deal.

I love this deck, but the field has to be right for it. That T8 has Junk, Twin, Merfolk, and a bunch of slow decks with no cards you truly care about. The other main MU that gets worse is Burn, as you are often paying a lot of life to cast Noxious Revivals. That would be where the Breeding Pool comes in from that deck, but you have to play the deck so slowly for that to matter, I'm not sure how much you actually gain.

[paeng4983]

GP SG is now fast approaching.

Any storm brother/s here who is/ are going to the said event?

I hope to meet you in person guys, just like what I did at GP Kyoto TES group.



Nice list Yami! I will give it a shot in one of my grinds here.

^_^

[Ghiwo]

Remand + manamorphose + 2 Ascensions gets you to draw your whole deck, which then finds you the infinite mana, and infinite of any Spell combo. You are looking to assemble:

COMBO 1:
Table: Active Ascension
Hand: Noxious Revival and any cantrip
Graveyard (Or hand): 2 Manamorphose, and an additional Noxious Revival

With this, you cast Revival, putting Morphose and Revival on top of your deck.
You cast your Cantrip (-1 mana) drawing Morphose and Revival

LOOP
Cast Morphose (-3 mana) Draw Revival. (-1 mana)
In response to your Morphose, cast Revival, putting Morphose and Revival on top.
Draw the Morphose (+1 Mana)
LOOP

That is the worst entry point to the combo, and leaves you with the least flexibility coming out of it. If you don't have another card in hand, you have a couple of options:

Assuming you have a third Noxious Revival still in your deck, you cast Manamorphose to draw Revival, then Revival your best cantrip. (Serum Visions, or Visions of Beyond are the best to hit, but almost anything that generates card advantage with Ascension works. Even Faithless Looting is good if you've got a Land or two in your hand, though it can just be flashed back.) This is the only risky part. You can brick at this point and practically just lose the game on the spot, but it is highly unlikely when you're looking at 4 cards for any cantrip. At this point, you will just cast multiple cantrips until you find a Noxious Revival and another Ascension. Play Ascension, revival your combo back. Your combo will activate your Ascension. Now you go:

Noxious Revival, putting Morphose, Revival, and any Spell on top of your deck.
Morphose, draw the combo and the extra card.

If the extra card deals damage (ie. Lightning Bolt), you win with Infinite damage.

The only real advice you need on this, is that you should just state you are holding priority unless you say otherwise during your combo turn.

COMBO 2:
Morphose and Remand in hand. Double Ascension on the battlefield.

LOOP
Cast Manamorphose (-2 mana)
Draw 2 cards (+2 Mana, +2 Cards)
Cast Remand. (0-mana) The card targets the remaining Manamorphose. The first copy targets Manamorphose, the second copy targets Remand.
Return Remand, draw a card (+3 cards)
Return Manamorphose (+4 cards)
LOOP

You only need 2 mana, and every time you go around the loop you draw 4 cards for 0 mana and 0 cards. If you have a Remand or a Manamorphose, you can find a third Ascension and generate mana, and in turn a kill. This means you can still win with just a pair of Lightning Bolts left in your deck if you have no more Noxious Revivals. This is very important to know, sometimes.

The other takeaway, is that if you manage to jam a load of Ascensions on the table and activate them, you can still win if they make a RiP the turn after you miss, as your Bolts each do 9-12 damage. This rarely comes up, but again is good to know.

______________________________________

Some important points:
Ascension turns all of your Bolts into slightly better than Lava Axes. A single Ascension on the table will often mean a kill from just 3 Lightning Bolts, and with all of the Cantrips, a full set of Bolts, and a full set of Revivals, that is a trivial feat. You should be winning a good 50% of your games just by doing this. Get an Ascension on the table, activate it, and throw Lightning at their face until they die. The real kicker, is that you can also cast them as Searing Blazes if you really need to, and when it REALLY comes down to it, R: Destroy target Tarmogoyf is a very playable Spell.

The final point I will make, is that you cannot lose to the Thoughtseize/Decay decks unless they have Scooze. You are not a deck that cares about volume of cards like Storm, so Liliana is irrelevant, Thoughtseize rarely has a target that you care about losing, and if they kill an Ascension, you have a total of 8 copies of it in your deck, so you WILL find another one. This is your true advantage over regular Storm. The flip side of that, is that you are generally slower, especially due to the fact that you have no access to a T2 Blood Moon, or Empty the Warrens. This makes traditional Storm, and decks like Amulet bad Matchups. You also lose even harder to decks like UR Delver, but Storm rarely beats those anyway, so that's not a big deal.

I love this deck, but the field has to be right for it. That T8 has Junk, Twin, Merfolk, and a bunch of slow decks with no cards you truly care about. The other main MU that gets worse is Burn, as you are often paying a lot of life to cast Noxious Revivals. That would be where the Breeding Pool comes in from that deck, but you have to play the deck so slowly for that to matter, I'm not sure how much you actually gain.

Thanks so much, that is pretty much golden for me!
Right now I'm trying a version as you suggested with:

4 serum visions
4 sleight of hand
4 faithless looting
4 thought scour
4 gitaxian probe
4 visions of beyond
4 lightning bolt
4 noxious revival
4 manamorphose
2 remand

4 pyromancer ascension

18 lands

I cut Cryptics and 2 Remands as you suggested for Lootings and I'm liking them. The deck plays fairly differently from straight UR Storm that I'm used to, so I feel I need some practice before bringing it to a tournament. Right now I'm trying to figure out all of the possible plays. What's most hard for me is understanding how to use Noxious Revival. Do you usually play it outside from the combo turn and the obvious "to recycle milled Ascensions"? I found myself often put a cantrip that already charged Ascension to 1 on top during upkeep, so I'll draw it and charge to 2.

[YamiJoey]

Using Revival well is what makes the deck tick, and I am more and more seeing the merits of Breeding Pool, considering how much life I am paying. (I once paid 17 life by turn three to kill my opponent. O.o)

Forcing Ascension activations is a big deal, and I have made T1 Visions, T2 Ascension, T3 Visions, Revival, Visions, active Ascension with a mana spare to now cast another cantrip and kill next turn. With a pair of Gitaxian Probes or Manamorphoses, you can kill on T3, and it's about the only way to kill on T3 in the deck. (This is what you give up when you cut fast mana, obviously.)

I have before now had a hand with Acension, Bolts, Revivals, and Lands, and just made T1 Bolt, T2 Ascension, T3 Bolt, Bolt, cantrip, T4 Revival, Bolt, Bolt. There is a T3 kill if your cantrip is a Gitaxian Probe, but that's an exact opening 7, and two draw Steps of 3 Bolts, 3 Lands, Ascension, Probe, Revival, and all in the right order. You don't have to burn anything by going for it, though. Against some decks it's really just good enough to start Bolting their face on T1, and if your hand is Revival, Ascension, 2 Lands, you just want to make sure you land your Ascension and get it online, so even a Thoughtseize isn't a problem, and is actively good for you. (As you won't need the final Bolt to kill.)

Noxious Revival is what makes the deck so good. It is an incredibly unique effect that is not respected enough. It may be card disadvantage, but Vampiric Tutor is a powerful Magic Card.

[Ghiwo]

I'm not liking so much Visions of Beyond, as I can never play them as a Treasure Cruise unless when they are overkill (when I loop to kill them). They are always a blue instant card that says: U, draw a card. A Reach Through Mists. I never have 20 cards in my graveyard by turn 4.
Maybe there's something better, I don't know. I already have the set of Faithless Looting, so I don't really know. I'll search for sure!

[YamiJoey]

With 4 Faithless Lootings and Thought Scours, you can fill up your Graveyard super fast. Visions is often a Reach Through Mist with minor upsides, but I have never played more than one. I've always had better things to be doing with my time. I think there's even room for Anticipate/Telling Time in these lists. (I prefer Telling Time, personally.)

[paeng4983]

This is where I am at the moment.

Creatures
3 Goblin Electromancer

Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Manamorphose
4 Thought Scour
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
3 Pyretic Ritual
2 Gifts Ungiven
2 Past in Flames
1 Grapeshot

Enchantments
4 Pyromancer Ascension

Lands
1 Mountain
2 Island
3 Steam Vents
3 Flooded Strand
4 Sulfur Falls
4 Scalding Tarn

Sideboard
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Torpor Orb
2 Gigadrowse
2 Echoing Truth
2 Rending Volley
1 Bloom Moon
1 Empty the Warrens

How's everyone doing with this deck?

^_^

@Ghiwo
If you do not like it, try Peek. It's an instant, modern legacy and it makes you feels like running 8 probe effects.

[paeng4983]

Participated at HobbyPro's Modern Sunday event in which 21 players showed up.
My Mus were:

bye 2-0
Abzan Company 2-0
RUG 2-0
Belcher 2-0
Abzan Rhino 2-0

We have GPT SG this coming saturday, and if my schedule permits me to play, i'll be with the same 75 that I used.
Here it is:

Creatures
3 Goblin Electromancer

Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Manamorphose
4 Thought Scour
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
3 Pyretic Ritual
2 Gifts Ungiven
2 Past in Flames
1 Grapeshot

Enchantments
4 Pyromancer Ascension

Lands
1 Mountain
2 Island
3 Steam Vents
3 Flooded Strand
4 Sulfur Falls
4 Scalding Tarn

Sideboard
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Torpor Orb
2 Gigadrowse
2 Echoing Truth
2 Rending Volley
1 Bloom Moon
1 Empty the Warrens

[Ghiwo]

Hey guys!

Yesterday I went to my very first tournament with the Ascension list. It felt really good, I managed to win consistently on turn 4, and the deck overall felt good. I really like it, and I definitely want to learn to play it properly. I hope the switch from "rituals-storm" to this won't be so long and difficult.

My list was:

4 serum visions
4 sleight of hand
4 faithless looting
4 thought scour
4 gitaxian probe
4 visions of beyond
4 lightning bolt
4 noxious revival
4 manamorphose
2 remand

4 pyromancer ascension

18 lands

Sideboard was the same of Pascal Wagner's, just with 2 blanks because my Timely Reinforcements are still somewere with the Post Here it is:

3 Young Pyromancer
3 Rest for the Weary
3 Swan Song
2 Pyroclasm
2 Wear/Tear
2 blank - should be Timely Reinforcements

The tournament:

Round 1: UW Control.

In the first game I manage to land Ascension, with a Probe I see him with double Cryptic Command and 3 blanks (Gideon, Elspeth, Path to Exile). I can't win before he gets to Cryptic my Ascension back to my hand, I land it again, he bounces again, I land it again, he Snares, I Noxious Revival it back and draw it off a Probe to play it again with him tapped out. That puts me on 6 life. he untaps and says go, i know everything but a card in his hand and it's all blanks. Unfortunately the last card is a Snapcaster that targets Cryptic to bounce again my Ascension and I can't charge it again this turn, I pass, he chooses to activate Colonnade and I die.
This game felt like I was able to grind the control deck without any problem if just I had a Breeding Pool to pay for Revival, unfortunately I saw the first fetchland when I was at 6 life That because I had to Revival a couple of times to charge Ascension and take it back from counters. Also his topdeck was lucky, and I felt good even if I lost.
In game 2 I board in 3 Swan Song for 3 Bolts, I don't know if it's good.
It was not, since he starts with double Leyline of Sanctity I'm not an expert of Modern (I mainly play Legacy), and really did not expect Leyline from such a deck. I thought they had something like Kor Firewalker to handle Burn. Anyway I show my best poker face and keep on playing, I combo off on turn four, hoping that he concedes when I show him the loop, but he does not and I have to give up. I guess these are situations where having Cryptic Command shines.
0-2

Round 2: Affinity

He wins on his turn 3 the first game . I bring in 2 Pyroclams and 2 Wear/Tear for the Gitaxians. Game 2 I start, land Ascension on turn 2, swipe his board with a Pyroclasm on turn 3 and go off turn 4. Again, he starts, I land Ascension turn 2, on his EOT turn 3 I have double Manamorphose, double Visions of Beyond and a Bolt in my hand, so I proceed to charge Ascension, kill his Skirges, untap and win.
2-1

Round 3: U-Tron

I land double Ascension, while he is a bit slow, he has an O-Stone in play but no mana to break it, so I proceed to Manamorphose, Bolt him for 9, Bolt again for 9, he goes to 2, so with the last Manamorphose on the stack I Revival back the Bolts and proceed to Bolt him for other 9
I sideboard in 3 Swan Song and 1 Wear/Tear (don't know if this one's good). Game 2 I land Ascension on turn 3 with Swan Song backup, charge it the turn after and win.
2-0

Round 4: GR Tron

I manage to win on turn 4 with him doing more or less nothing. Again my ignorance about Modern shows up: I believe he has just Pyroclasm to deal with Pyromancers, and that he will board them out, so I bring my Pyros in. I manage to Pyro for some tokens, but on his turn 4 he lands Ugin and swipes the board. I didn't know Ugin was played in Modern my fault, I've been so stupid here! In game 3 I have Ascension on the battlefield and he has a Wurmcoil beating me down. A Relic exiles my graveyard, and a Karn exiles my Ascension I have another Ascension in my hand but I'm at 4 life and can't charge it and win in the same turn. What could I do in this situation? There's some way to beat Karn?
1-2

In the end, I'm 8th out of 16 and win a booster, I'm really happy of my first run with the deck. Obviously I need to get used to Modern much more, but I had a great time piloting such a beauty. I'm looking forward to the next 4/5 rounds tournament next Saturday! I'll let you know!

Bye!