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Thread: Pyromancer Ascension

  1. #101

    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Quote Originally Posted by bum_man View Post
    I took out the 18th land for electrolyze so it doesn't hinder my number of 4offs.
    Which land is #18? A Sulfur Falls, or a Misty Rainforest?

  2. #102
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Quote Originally Posted by sawatarix View Post
    How does this deck work? You need Noxious Revival+Manamorphose in both your hand and graveyard to get infinite mana and then do the same with Noxious Revival+Thought Scour to mill your opponent, right?
    Or am I missing something?
    1 Ascension, Manamorphose and Noxious in hand, Manamorphose and Noxious in yard = infinite mana of all relevant colors.

    Adding a second active Ascension allows you to Noxious a third card to the top each repetition of the loop. That third card can be either Lightning Bolt or Thought Scour (or Cryptic Command if you need to bounce your opponent's board for whatever reason).

    Quote Originally Posted by Waikiki View Post
    Is there any primer with sideboard guide written about the deck?
    No. All the primers that I'm aware of are for UR Storm which is entirely different from this deck. I generally pull the Looting playset if I need to board in a bunch of cards, I will also shave 1 Cryptic and sometimes a couple Bolts or Scours depending on the matchup.
    Lord of the Chalice

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    Since playing against Spiral Tide provides a lot fun for both players is something only someone who's not had sex for quite a while could enjoy, I pull out GW Maverick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brainstorm Ape View Post
    Spikes are supposed to enjoy winning by leveraging their talents, but this card can't fetch the most SKILL INTENSIVE card in all of Magic?

    Clearly aimed at Modern plebs, not gonna be a pillar of our format.
    Stompy Discord: https://discord.gg/6cesvkz

  3. #103

    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Quote Originally Posted by sum1unopk View Post
    Which land is #18? A Sulfur Falls, or a Misty Rainforest?
    1 island was the 18th land that I cut. Then I also replaced the 3rd Steam Vents with a 2nd sulfur falls to keep the number of untapped lands I have that doesn't damage me fairly the same.

    I wasn't too happy drawing into more real lands using my cantrips mid-combo when searching for the 2nd revival or/manamorphose so I just replaced the 18th land with a cantrip/removal/win con.
    Why so serious?

  4. #104
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Quote Originally Posted by bum_man View Post
    Actually you can, just do the infinite mana loop then once you have X number of U, R, G floating, you can replace one of the manamorphose with electrolyze.

    I took out the 18th land for electrolyze so it doesn't hinder my number of 4offs. I just wanted a kill spell that doesn't require me to pass back the turn when I could possibly be killed on the upkeep that also only requires 1 ascension active.
    With just one Electrolyze the win is not guaranteed if you brick on lands/bolts/noxious revivals.

    Example:
    After infinite mana your hand is: Noxious, Manamorphose, Electrolyze. You Electrolyze for 4dmg, draw 2X*. Noxious back a Noxious Revival and Electrolyze, cast Manamorphose, draw NR and Electrolyze. Cast Electrolyze, deal another 4, draw 2X*. Now if both of the Electrolyze draw 2's (4 cards) are any combination of lands/noxious revivals/bolts your loop is over. More often than not you draw into more cantrips anyway but what I was saying is that it is not an infinite loop as it requires you to hit more cantrips in order to keep going. This situation happened to me in testing. Electrolyze certainly is a strong card, but saying you can just replace a Manamorphose with one Electrolyze and loop infinitely is wrong as you can't use Electrolyze draws to draw itself back if you only have one of them.

    I have also tested Muddle the Mixture in place of the 18th land as someone here suggested it. However, I have yet to play enough games to determine if it's worth it. The transmute looks good on paper but being sorcery speed and not cantripping is a problem. Needs more testing though. I am also tempted to test Blue Sun's Zenith as it would be a guaranteed instant speed win with one Ascension and infinite mana. But that might just be a bit too cute. So far I haven't had any problems winning with Thought Scours or Bolts.

    Oh, just got my Japanese foil Ascensions and Manamorphoses in the mail. Cant wait to confuse my opponents with them.

  5. #105

    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Quote Originally Posted by Mammutti View Post
    With just one Electrolyze the win is not guaranteed if you brick on lands/bolts/noxious revivals.

    Example:
    After infinite mana your hand is: Noxious, Manamorphose, Electrolyze. You Electrolyze for 4dmg, draw 2X*. Noxious back a Noxious Revival and Electrolyze, cast Manamorphose, draw NR and Electrolyze. Cast Electrolyze, deal another 4, draw 2X*. Now if both of the Electrolyze draw 2's (4 cards) are any combination of lands/noxious revivals/bolts your loop is over. More often than not you draw into more cantrips anyway but what I was saying is that it is not an infinite loop as it requires you to hit more cantrips in order to keep going. This situation happened to me in testing. Electrolyze certainly is a strong card, but saying you can just replace a Manamorphose with one Electrolyze and loop infinitely is wrong as you can't use Electrolyze draws to draw itself back if you only have one of them.

    I have also tested Muddle the Mixture in place of the 18th land as someone here suggested it. However, I have yet to play enough games to determine if it's worth it. The transmute looks good on paper but being sorcery speed and not cantripping is a problem. Needs more testing though. I am also tempted to test Blue Sun's Zenith as it would be a guaranteed instant speed win with one Ascension and infinite mana. But that might just be a bit too cute. So far I haven't had any problems winning with Thought Scours or Bolts.

    Oh, just got my Japanese foil Ascensions and Manamorphoses in the mail. Cant wait to confuse my opponents with them.
    With ascension active, using the same hand and "infinite" mana, the correct play should've been cast electrolyze then before resolution of the copy and original electrolyze, you noxious back a noxious and manamorphose or Serum Visions or thought Scour on top, so you get to draw both off the electrolyze resolution. Then cast any of those cantrips then noxious back electrolyze and noxious on top before resolution again. Just rinse and repeat.

    You never get to draw any new cards because your draws are always the cards you revival back. It's basically the same as Thought Scour kill except you do it with damage. It's the same as the way the deck generates infinite mana. For the wincons, you don't necessarily need to loop them against the same cards, you just need to loop them with any "draw a card" spell to make the infinite loop. With gratuitous amounts of mana, it's not like you need to deal damage each revival cycle to win anyway, which is why you only need at least 1 electrolyze to do this.

    Hope that clarifies.
    Why so serious?

  6. #106
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Quote Originally Posted by bum_man View Post
    With ascension active, using the same hand and "infinite" mana, the correct play should've been cast electrolyze then before resolution of the copy and original electrolyze, you noxious back a noxious and manamorphose or Serum Visions or thought Scour on top, so you get to draw both off the electrolyze resolution. Then cast any of those cantrips then noxious back electrolyze and noxious on top before resolution again. Just rinse and repeat.

    You never get to draw any new cards because your draws are always the cards you revival back. It's basically the same as Thought Scour kill except you do it with damage. It's the same as the way the deck generates infinite mana. For the wincons, you don't necessarily need to loop them against the same cards, you just need to loop them with any "draw a card" spell to make the infinite loop. With gratuitous amounts of mana, it's not like you need to deal damage each revival cycle to win anyway, which is why you only need at least 1 electrolyze to do this.

    Hope that clarifies.
    Thank you for the reply and I apologize for my ignorance. I'm still fairly new to the deck. I completely overlooked the fact that you can use Electrolyze every second loop. Essentially chaining piles of Noxious Revival x Cantrip and Noxious Revival x Electrolyze. Now this makes much more sense. Feels like Electrolyze is worth the inclusion. Thank you for clarifying. How does your current sideboard look like btw?

  7. #107

    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Quote Originally Posted by Mammutti View Post
    Thank you for the reply and I apologize for my ignorance. I'm still fairly new to the deck. I completely overlooked the fact that you can use Electrolyze every second loop. Essentially chaining piles of Noxious Revival x Cantrip and Noxious Revival x Electrolyze. Now this makes much more sense. Feels like Electrolyze is worth the inclusion. Thank you for clarifying. How does your current sideboard look like btw?
    I play the stock sideboard except I play 4 rest for the weary and just 1 timely reinforcements. There are a lot of burn where I play so I feel gaining more life is more relevant than potentially having blockers.
    Why so serious?

  8. #108

    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    This list was 6th in the MTGO PTQ

    Mainboard:
    2 Cryptic Command
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Manamorphose
    4 Noxious Revival
    4 Remand
    4 Thought Scour
    4 Visions of Beyond
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Serum Visions
    4 Sleight of Hand
    4 Pyromancer Ascension
    1 Breeding Pool
    1 Hallowed Fountain
    3 Island
    1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
    1 Mountain
    1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
    2 Polluted Delta
    4 Scalding Tarn
    3 Steam Vents
    1 Sulfur Falls

    Sideboard:
    4 Young Pyromancer
    2 Lightning Helix
    3 Swan Song
    2 Wear // Tear
    2 Pyroclasm
    2 Timely Reinforcements

    Has some interesting splashes. The lightning helixes definitely seem interesting.

  9. #109
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Quote Originally Posted by sum1unopk View Post
    This list was 6th in the MTGO PTQ

    Mainboard:
    2 Cryptic Command
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Manamorphose
    4 Noxious Revival
    4 Remand
    4 Thought Scour
    4 Visions of Beyond
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Serum Visions
    4 Sleight of Hand
    4 Pyromancer Ascension
    1 Breeding Pool
    1 Hallowed Fountain
    3 Island
    1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
    1 Mountain
    1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
    2 Polluted Delta
    4 Scalding Tarn
    3 Steam Vents
    1 Sulfur Falls

    Sideboard:
    4 Young Pyromancer
    2 Lightning Helix
    3 Swan Song
    2 Wear // Tear
    2 Pyroclasm
    2 Timely Reinforcements

    Has some interesting splashes. The lightning helixes definitely seem interesting.
    I really like this list, will have to mess around with it next time I play this deck. My one dislike is the 3 Steam Vents - it's too many shocks IMO and there should be more Sulfur Falls.
    Lord of the Chalice

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    Since playing against Spiral Tide provides a lot fun for both players is something only someone who's not had sex for quite a while could enjoy, I pull out GW Maverick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brainstorm Ape View Post
    Spikes are supposed to enjoy winning by leveraging their talents, but this card can't fetch the most SKILL INTENSIVE card in all of Magic?

    Clearly aimed at Modern plebs, not gonna be a pillar of our format.
    Stompy Discord: https://discord.gg/6cesvkz

  10. #110
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Can anyone post a small SB-guide for the ascencion stormless deck?
    Have a tournament this weekend and I am not a modern aficionado

  11. #111

    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilhas View Post
    Can anyone post a small SB-guide for the ascencion stormless deck?
    Have a tournament this weekend and I am not a modern aficionado
    I'll try to. I'll be running this deck for the foreseeable future. Deck just looks too damn fun. I'll try and throw together some sideboard / how-to-play notes

  12. #112
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Okay, I'll make myself ready to get humiliated:
    Can someone PLEASE explain, why that decklist above has 1-off Oboro and Minamo?
    They seem to make the deck more vulnerable to Moons and LD but bring nothing valuable that an Island wouldn't.

  13. #113
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Quote Originally Posted by AlterEgo View Post
    Okay, I'll make myself ready to get humiliated:
    Can someone PLEASE explain, why that decklist above has 1-off Oboro and Minamo?
    They seem to make the deck more vulnerable to Moons and LD but bring nothing valuable that an Island wouldn't.
    Boil and Choke. The question is, which is more likely - Boil/Choke or Blood Moon/Fulminator? I would say Boil and Choke probably are as nobody should ever board Blood Moon in against this deck. The biggest issue I have with those two lands is they make Sulfur Falls much worse, and Sulfur Falls is the best land in this deck.
    Lord of the Chalice

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    Since playing against Spiral Tide provides a lot fun for both players is something only someone who's not had sex for quite a while could enjoy, I pull out GW Maverick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brainstorm Ape View Post
    Spikes are supposed to enjoy winning by leveraging their talents, but this card can't fetch the most SKILL INTENSIVE card in all of Magic?

    Clearly aimed at Modern plebs, not gonna be a pillar of our format.
    Stompy Discord: https://discord.gg/6cesvkz

  14. #114
    jungle lion, good?...
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Magmatic Insight
    R
    sorcery

    As an additional cost to cast ~, discard a land card.

    Draw two cards.

    ------------------------

    This one, aren't you guys loving this?

    thanks
    TJB

    http://deartiyopaeng.blogspot.com/ <---- (updated) MTG related blog. ^_^

    TES: 102nd out of 2000 players at GP Kyoto 2015 (Legacy)

    UR Storm: 37th of 950 players at GP Guangzhou 2016 (Modern)

  15. #115
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Considering the deck is pretty land light this card seems eh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    To be fair, you're supposed to build a sizable pyre underneath it and light it with an arrow from afar.

  16. #116
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Quote Originally Posted by Redkid43 View Post
    Considering the deck is pretty land light this card seems eh.
    further elaborated: This card is GOOD, when you're going off, as you can pitch excess lands you surely will find.
    The big issue in this deck is FINDING and LANDING PyroAscension - in this stage of the game, you need every land drop to pay for cantrips.

    When it's useful, you can't afford it, when you can cast it, any cantrip will do just as fine.

    If it was discard any card (or even two cards) I'd strongly consider it, but as is... nope

  17. #117

    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Hey guys, im new to the Unstorm build and being toying with it for a few weeks.
    Im really in love with the deck, i love the fact that it has nearly no dead draws (like rituals) and except from the bolts and ascensions, all cards cycle themselves, making it really easy to find what you need.
    Its also very complex and it demands constant decision taking at every cantrip you play (what makes a deck interesting to play IMO), and im sure theres where i fail the most, but well, only practice can remedy that.


    After several tournaments, i have found that the only matchup i cant really seem to take a grip on is Jund/Junk. I know that playing 8 virtual copies of pyro ascension makes it really difficult not to find it even after it being discarded, but them running 4 decays and sometimes pulse is really bad, specially since you cant counter AD, and the tempo loss sometimes is irreversible if you have to pay 2 life and lose a card in order to noxious it, not to mention to get it active again. It really is a mana and card investment and there is when liliana and tarmogoyfs fast clock puts a lock on you.
    Post SB the thing gets even worse, since they bring in choke, golgari charm and rakdos charm, cards that deal not only with pyro ascension but with young pyro and its tokens.
    Can someone give me some advice on how to play it? Or maybe a sideboard choice to fight it, since my meta seems really infested with it. Ive been thinking of blood moon, and maybe monastery mentor (at least it doesnt die to golgari charm).

    Thank you a lot! Its a pitty that this thread, which seems to be the only one in the net to even discuss some UNstorm, has so little activity. I think the deck is underestimated and has some potential.

  18. #118
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Quote Originally Posted by kkkant View Post
    Hey guys, im new to the Unstorm build and being toying with it for a few weeks.
    Im really in love with the deck, i love the fact that it has nearly no dead draws (like rituals) and except from the bolts and ascensions, all cards cycle themselves, making it really easy to find what you need.
    Its also very complex and it demands constant decision taking at every cantrip you play (what makes a deck interesting to play IMO), and im sure theres where i fail the most, but well, only practice can remedy that.


    After several tournaments, i have found that the only matchup i cant really seem to take a grip on is Jund/Junk. I know that playing 8 virtual copies of pyro ascension makes it really difficult not to find it even after it being discarded, but them running 4 decays and sometimes pulse is really bad, specially since you cant counter AD, and the tempo loss sometimes is irreversible if you have to pay 2 life and lose a card in order to noxious it, not to mention to get it active again. It really is a mana and card investment and there is when liliana and tarmogoyfs fast clock puts a lock on you.
    Post SB the thing gets even worse, since they bring in choke, golgari charm and rakdos charm, cards that deal not only with pyro ascension but with young pyro and its tokens.
    Can someone give me some advice on how to play it? Or maybe a sideboard choice to fight it, since my meta seems really infested with it. Ive been thinking of blood moon, and maybe monastery mentor (at least it doesnt die to golgari charm).

    Thank you a lot! Its a pitty that this thread, which seems to be the only one in the net to even discuss some UNstorm, has so little activity. I think the deck is underestimated and has some potential.
    Honestly the Jund matchup is just really bad post-board. Leyline of Sanctity could work against the discard, although we'd need to run a Sacred Foundry mainboard. Blood Moon can maybe shut them down if it doesn't get discarded. Junk isn't quite as hard simply because they usually don't have as many live cards against us as Jund, but it's still hard. Spellskite helps a little postboard as it can eat Decays. Honestly with this deck you want to play against Twin, Control, Tron, and Affinity. Fast red-based aggro is pretty bad for us (Burn especially is nigh unwinnable) and midrange is hard. Fast combo is pretty hand dependent, decks like Bloom and Grishoalbrand are inconsistent so you can steal games despite being slower.
    Lord of the Chalice

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    Since playing against Spiral Tide provides a lot fun for both players is something only someone who's not had sex for quite a while could enjoy, I pull out GW Maverick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brainstorm Ape View Post
    Spikes are supposed to enjoy winning by leveraging their talents, but this card can't fetch the most SKILL INTENSIVE card in all of Magic?

    Clearly aimed at Modern plebs, not gonna be a pillar of our format.
    Stompy Discord: https://discord.gg/6cesvkz

  19. #119

    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar View Post
    Honestly the Jund matchup is just really bad post-board. Leyline of Sanctity could work against the discard, although we'd need to run a Sacred Foundry mainboard. Blood Moon can maybe shut them down if it doesn't get discarded. Junk isn't quite as hard simply because they usually don't have as many live cards against us as Jund, but it's still hard. Spellskite helps a little postboard as it can eat Decays. Honestly with this deck you want to play against Twin, Control, Tron, and Affinity. Fast red-based aggro is pretty bad for us (Burn especially is nigh unwinnable) and midrange is hard. Fast combo is pretty hand dependent, decks like Bloom and Grishoalbrand are inconsistent so you can steal games despite being slower.

    Leyline could work both vs discard (8rack, jund) and burn, which are both bad matchups. Ive never been a fan of its randomness, and castingi t4 isnt really an option, even if we have the mana available, but once online it could give us the time we need.
    Lately ive been somehow disappointed with young pyromancer. I know its great in paper, and the times i managed to get him online it was awesome, but its only good aggainst matchups that are already good (basically control), with the exception of jund, were i find it meh. I think we would take a bigger advantage if we use those 4 slots to fight midrange decks.

  20. #120
    jungle lion, good?...
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Modern wmcq is now around the corner.
    Joining sanctioned modern tournaments weeks before the event is my way of preparing for it, and here are my results.

    8/10/15
    1st pod 12nn FNM pod (1-4)
    win: burn 2-0
    loss: mono G aggro (1-2), URW Twin (0-2), BG reanimator (1-2) and coco elves (1-2).

    2nd pod 6pm FNM pod (3-1)
    win: Mono U Tron (2-1), mono G aggro (2-0) and RG Tron (2-0)
    loss: affinity (1-2)

    3rd regular saturday modern session (3-1)
    win: grixies (2-0), Mono U Tron (2-1), Grixies (2-1)
    loss: URW twin (0-2)

    ----oo0oo -----

    8/17/15
    FNM
    win: RDW (2-1), Affinity (2-0)
    loss: Jund (1-2). Ad naus (0-2)

    After my fnm, i playtested with a teammate that is on living end.
    We played a total of 5 games, all main deck only. (0-5)

    PPTQ
    win: BW tokens (2-0), GW Hate (2-0), abzan coco (2-0)
    loss: naya burn (0-2), infect (1-2)
    Last edited by paeng4983; 08-16-2015 at 09:29 PM.
    TJB

    http://deartiyopaeng.blogspot.com/ <---- (updated) MTG related blog. ^_^

    TES: 102nd out of 2000 players at GP Kyoto 2015 (Legacy)

    UR Storm: 37th of 950 players at GP Guangzhou 2016 (Modern)

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