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Thread: Pyromancer Ascension

  1. #121

    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Since no one is speaking in this thread i will come up with my bad ideas for the deck for someone to appear and prove me wrong haha.
    I was wondering about the UNStorm version of the deck, and im trying 4MD Repeal instead of the visions of beyond.
    For starters, i wanted to switch visions because, besides being AWESOME in control matchups (which are already good), it is really bad. Repeal, on the other hand, can cycle itself while gaining tempo advantage, plus its really good vs faster matchups, which are really bad. The only downside of the card is that it needs a target, but i figure the only decks that dont have a target for it (besides some combo ones) are control decks, which really are a good matchup for the deck.

    What do you guys think?

  2. #122

    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Quote Originally Posted by kkkant View Post
    im trying 4MD Repeal instead of the visions of beyond.
    I love this idea. Having another cantrip answer seems awesome. I'm trying this out tomorrow :D

    Edit: I lied. This doesn't seem that good. It's not the best when copied with Ascension, and it requires a target. I know that's stating the obvious, but against decks like Living End and Tron, they don't run many permanents (that stay on the battlefield) that it would be reasonable to cast.

  3. #123

    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Quote Originally Posted by sum1unopk View Post
    I love this idea. Having another cantrip answer seems awesome. I'm trying this out tomorrow :D

    Edit: I lied. This doesn't seem that good. It's not the best when copied with Ascension, and it requires a target. I know that's stating the obvious, but against decks like Living End and Tron, they don't run many permanents (that stay on the battlefield) that it would be reasonable to cast.

    The card you're looking to replace Visions of Beyond with is Quicken. It's a deceptively good spell here, especially in the early game when deciding whether to cantrip, slam Ascension, or Remand on turn 2 is a leap of faith. On the play, Quicken + Gitaxian Probe at the end of their first turn is close to perfect information, which will sometimes give you the OK to take the game and run with it by showing an Ascension to a tapped out blue player or an answerless BGx player. In less fortunate (but still keepable!) opening hands, it allows you to leave mana up for a turn 2 Remand to stall the board while also keeping the option to dig effectively four cards deep with Serum Visions.

    Quicken also boosts this deck's main selling point over a traditional storm Ascension list: stealing a game at instant speed like you're some Solidarity-playing mofo. Just one Quicken with an active Ascension is a free pass for two more cantrips when you need to Combo or Bust in response to an Abrupt Decay. This is just such a shot in the arm for the deck's consistency in these situations.

    It's not an answer, but it's gas, and relevant gas at that. Visions of Beyond is do-nothing when you're not comboing, and win-more when you are. Altogether unnecessary and outclassed in comparison to Quicken's utility. Besides, if you're not already going off by the time you have twenty cards in the bin, then you probably never will.

  4. #124
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Quote Originally Posted by SakuraTribeAlderman View Post
    Just one Quicken with an active Ascension is a free pass for two more cantrips when you need to Combo or Bust in response to an Abrupt Decay. This is just such a shot in the arm for the deck's consistency in these situations.
    Very good point... Just remember, you have to cast the first Sorcery cantrip just after the copy-Quicken has resolved, with the original still on the stack. That's because both apply to the NEXT Sorcery, which isn't cummulative.

  5. #125

    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Quote Originally Posted by AlterEgo View Post
    Very good point... Just remember, you have to cast the first Sorcery cantrip just after the copy-Quicken has resolved, with the original still on the stack. That's because both apply to the NEXT Sorcery, which isn't cummulative.
    Good point! I'll remember that from now on. Thankfully I hadn't made any illegal plays due to my misunderstanding.

    I took the deck to a weekly modern event. I have a few thoughts, but I have a potentially controversial opinion. Let's start with that.

    1. Remand is poopy. It's dead most of the time, and waiting until four mana to fight over an Ascension can be a huge stall for our game plan and a major blowout. I found myself discarding and boarding these out in just about every match. It might just be my meta, but I would main Dispel over this. As for sideboard space, it could be good -- but for a deck that's not figured out, our sideboard is pretty choked for space already. You need 4 Young Pyromancer, some greater-than-one-each split of Dispel & Spell Pierce, and possibly 2, but closer to 4 Spellskites. (Honorable mentions go to the usual suspects of Swan Song and Blood Moon.) Taking up even more space to feature Utility Counter 3: This Time, It's Temporary seems lackluster. There was a list I saw with only one Remand in the main, and at the time I questioned it. Now I think it's closer to the right number: 0. I'm playing Visions of Beyond over it now. Which is ironic, considering my last post.

    I thought we might have some justification for Remand, as we are a turn 4 / 5 goldfish. (Turn 3 if we're just stupid lucky on our Manamorphoses.) Being a turn slower than Storm in most situations and thus needing the stalling is an argument, but more cantripping makes the deck a bit faster and even more consistent. Visions also has "NO WHAMMIES" written all over it. I suppose you could use the infinite mana cards + Remand in order to draw your deck and find the last piece of a combo kill, but drawing 6 gets you there well enough. Visions can also draw cards early without making you wait on your opponent with a play that competes for the same curve space as your win condition. Finally, Remand might as well not even be a cantrip since it costs 2. It's such a prohibitive cost for a deck that wants to chain multiple spells in a single turn. This is also why I don't much care for Desperate Ravings here.

    I would like some discussion on this. Some number of Remands in the main have been in just about every list to date; sometimes it even gets priority over Cryptic Command, which I find interesting -- not correct or incorrect, though, since I don't own any Cryptics to test with. Sadly enough. :'(

    TL;DR -- I recommend 4 Quicken + 4 Visions of Beyond over the more common X Remand + 4 Visions of Beyond configuration.

    2. Let's talk counters. How do you play against them? Do you play through them or around them? It all depends on how you Probe, of course, but I'm curious about how other people see them. I'm much more likely to brute force my way through opposition when I have redundant Ascensions or Noxious Revivals handy. Young Pyromancer is basically targeted discard for 2 out of the board since he strains their Spell Snares so hard. I'm honestly a fan of 4 YP + 4 PA in game 2 VS control. Putting down must-answer stuff every turn is a lot for them to handle. They'll slow themselves by keeping mana up for counters every turn to begin with, so pressuring their hand in order to further restrict their line of play seems good.

    3. I got a single Day's Undoing to put in my sideboard since I already play 4 Quickens mainboard. I can't afford the Skites, Moons, etc. that other people run, so I might as well get creative. I figured it gives us some nasty tech against GBx, which can be a tough matchup with all their Inquisitions, Thoughtseizes, and Abrupt Decays. Quicken + Undoing "counters" all of these while letting you start a new turn with a full hand, at least four mana, and whatever permanent they wanted to hit so badly. This might seem late, but my second games against these decks often get grindy due to Young Pyro and topdecks. You'll probably be on your second or third Ascension by that time due to all their disruption.

    And, well, exiling an Abrupt Decay from the stack is a long-held revenge fantasy of mine. This way is at least better than Mindbreak Trap.

    I would LOVE some discussion on all of the above. Please, tell me what you think. I want to make this deck better for everyone who's cool enough to play it.



    EDIT: I am a lying liar who lies. Day's Undoing is restricted by an "If it's your turn" clause.

    I guess it would still be pretty useful for an EOT Quicken on your opponent's turn, as drawing seven new cards with an active Ascension should win you the game right there.

    Another thing: Lightning Bolt is weird. If you can't win or stall with it, then it's basically Looting fodder. And stalling with it can be tough because the format's got an abundance of 4 and 5 toughness creatures as well as Lingering Souls tokens. How would others feel about shaving it down to 3 in the MD and keeping the fourth in the board?
    Last edited by SakuraTribeAlderman; 09-24-2015 at 07:27 PM. Reason: Rules Correction

  6. #126

    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    I strongly dislike Remand as well in the main. It's SUPER good against Tron, and with two active ascensions, it's a very soft lock (yes, this has happened. I was flooded. With 17 lands in my main)

    I'm thinking a visit to Faithless Looting might be needed?

    I agree with the previous comment, about how against control you need to have all 4 YP and PA. If you get lucky and they take out their creature removal, YP will go WILD over them.

    Maybe Into the Roil might be a better spell against decks where we need interaction?

  7. #127

    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Quote Originally Posted by sum1unopk View Post
    I strongly dislike Remand as well in the main. It's SUPER good against Tron, and with two active ascensions, it's a very soft lock (yes, this has happened. I was flooded. With 17 lands in my main)

    I'm thinking a visit to Faithless Looting might be needed?

    I agree with the previous comment, about how against control you need to have all 4 YP and PA. If you get lucky and they take out their creature removal, YP will go WILD over them.

    Maybe Into the Roil might be a better spell against decks where we need interaction?
    Interaction in general is weird for us. Even Cryptic Command can be awkward since by the time we want to cast it we really need red sources that don't hurt us -- in order to initiate infinite mana and win we'll lose a minimum of 1-3 life with casting Noxious Revival on top of the damage our opponents have been dealing us + our Reefs, Probes, fetches, shocks... This deck's life loss really adds up. Bolt is the only card that effectively stalls for us since it's 1 mana and can blank a creature, most notably Scavenging Ooze. I also don't hate Bolting Hierarchs since that delays their game by an entire turn.

    But needing interaction? I dunno about that. Spending 4 mana to bounce + draw is way less attractive than sequencing Sleight of Hand, Serum Visions, Ancestral Visions, Faithless Looting, etc. The latter is what wins games by finding or turning on Ascensions. And only spending 2 mana to bounce something important means the blatant card disadvantage for a merely temporary fix will really hurt. At that point, I'd rather just run Wipe Away. (Which is a great SB option, by the way.)

    As for Looting specifically, I run 4 in the main and usually side them all out for Young Pyromancer VS control. Looting is usually the last card in all my cantrip sequences, so simply replacing it with the win condition it's looking for doesn't seem like a bad deal. It also prevents the card disadvantage from Looting, which matters a good bit against permission but not so much against creature strategies where I'd prefer to dig 2 / discard 2 rather than dig 1. Remember, though, that Looting also helps turn on Visions of Beyond, which helps to make up for the disadvantage.

    Here's my current list for some insight into how I'm coming to these opinions. Warning: budget mana base ahead.


    Engine
    4 Pyromancer Ascension

    Combo // Win
    4 Manamorphose
    4 Noxious Revival
    3 Lightning Bolt
    4 Thought Scour

    Cantrips
    4 Serum Visions
    4 Sleight of Hand
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Quicken
    4 Visions of Beyond
    4 Faithless Tooting

    Land
    3 Shivan Reef
    3 Sulfur Falls
    2 City of Brass
    6 Island
    3 Mountain


    17 lands + Looting is great for anyone without fetches. Stems any flooding and lets you discard lands instead of gas during more pivotal turns. Honestly, I haven't had any issues with my mana base. Performs quite consistently.

    If you want to win on turn 4 with any consistency, I would heavily recommend maxing out on cantrips instead of trying to include expensive interaction in the main. Bring in your Skites etc. game 2. Which, by the way, I would recommend siding out Quicken for. Looting + Quicken are usually my go-to cuts from the main when I need Young Pyromancers, Dispels, Spellskites, or whatever else. If I suspect or know of any Leylines coming in, then I cut Bolts for more disruption.

    Bolt has the dubious honor of being both the best and the worst card in the deck. It can win you the game without giving your opponent an upkeep to burn you with, but it doesn't replace itself, so it can be totally dead when you're not comboing off. It's like drawing an Emrakul with no Show and Tell.


    EDIT: My local shop is hosting a no ban list modern tournament. Will sleeve up my Ponders and Preordains and give a fun report. Unfortunately, my testing has shown that Ascension is a cruel mistress – Treasure Cruise slows us way down, triple draw be damned.
    Last edited by SakuraTribeAlderman; 10-01-2015 at 02:41 PM.

  8. #128

    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Hi guys,

    I'm a Legacy-veteran considering getting into Modern. The weapon of choice in this format seems like a no-brainer to me, all of these different UR ascension decks seems like so much fun.

    I would like the more experienced players pros and cons lists regarding the three different versions I have found.

    - Standard AscensionStorm, Jon Finkel style
    - NoStorm Ascension, with lightning bolts as only wincon
    - Maindeck EtW, Young Pyromancer & goblin bushwhacker

    My main problem with the NoStorm version is that it is entirely dependent on having ascension in play. If this one spell gets countered or answered, the deck basically does nothing! (?) Both other versions at least have alternative gameplans in PiF/Grapeshot or smashing face with tokens.

  9. #129
    jungle lion, good?...
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    @Grizzly Bear

    Go with the standard Finkle style. It is the strongest, at least for me.
    Although, numerous people also are having a success in Wagner's list (Unstorm).

    Welcome aboard pal, and good luck in your future games with our deck.

    ^_^
    TJB

    http://deartiyopaeng.blogspot.com/ <---- (updated) MTG related blog. ^_^

    TES: 102nd out of 2000 players at GP Kyoto 2015 (Legacy)

    UR Storm: 37th of 950 players at GP Guangzhou 2016 (Modern)

  10. #130
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Hi, my suggested mana base for you is this

    4 Reefs
    4 Falls
    2 Mountain
    6 Islands

    So how was the no banned modern tourney?



    my thoughts on the new kid on the block: BR Eldrazi
    http://deartiyopaeng.blogspot.com/20...-to-earth.html
    Last edited by paeng4983; 01-13-2016 at 07:19 PM.
    TJB

    http://deartiyopaeng.blogspot.com/ <---- (updated) MTG related blog. ^_^

    TES: 102nd out of 2000 players at GP Kyoto 2015 (Legacy)

    UR Storm: 37th of 950 players at GP Guangzhou 2016 (Modern)

  11. #131
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar View Post


    No. All the primers that I'm aware of are for UR Storm which is entirely different from this deck. I generally pull the Looting playset if I need to board in a bunch of cards, I will also shave 1 Cryptic and sometimes a couple Bolts or Scours depending on the matchup.
    There is totally a primer, but it is ~ 3 years old at this point. no lootings. more remands, some weird other cards. not much has changed really.

    http://www.starcitygames.com/article...ed-Sequel.html

    edit: also i think there is probably better action than quicken.

    Swasey had a list ~ 1.5 years ago that was this:
    https://swaseyshuffle.files.wordpres...nite-storm.png

    felt a little land light to me but was still good, could probably cut some number of peer through depths/ truth/ grapeshot/ or inquisition for lands. I probably wouldn't play fewer than 16 or more than 17 though, deck has enough velocity. Twin board dodges GY hate, gemstone cavern may be too cute.

  12. #132
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    How are you fellow modern storm troopers!
    Here's my two cents on the new kid on the block
    cheers!

    http://deartiyopaeng.blogspot.com/20...-to-earth.html

    ------------------
    1-31-16
    UR Storm at Regran Open Modern (Manila)
    80 plus players 7 rounds
    5-0-2
    Top 8: split prizes so that we can go home early

    MUs
    Skred Red 2-0
    RUG 2-1
    Scapeshift 2-0
    RDW 2-1
    Naya aggro 2-1
    Ad naus id
    Hatebears id

    List: Take Jonny Magic's 60 then less 3 Desrapate Ravings and one Goblin Electromancer for one Flooded Strand, 2 Faithless Lotting and one Gifts the Ungiven. I used the same 15.


    TR
    http://deartiyopaeng.blogspot.com/20...1_archive.html
    Last edited by paeng4983; 02-01-2016 at 04:48 AM.
    TJB

    http://deartiyopaeng.blogspot.com/ <---- (updated) MTG related blog. ^_^

    TES: 102nd out of 2000 players at GP Kyoto 2015 (Legacy)

    UR Storm: 37th of 950 players at GP Guangzhou 2016 (Modern)

  13. #133
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Sorry about this but can someone explain me how does UNstorm kill an opp after getting eternal mana?

  14. #134
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    @Oleg:
    7 Bolts kill a player - Recursion viv Noxious does the trick.

  15. #135
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension



    You can also win my milling his library, just replace the lightning bolt in the loop with Thoughtscour.



    Others have one Grapeshot in the deck. So all they have to do is dig that lone GS and win.

    Good luck in your tournaments and keep us updated with your results and MUs!




    ----

    Just got home from our Modern regular Thursday session.
    My MUs were:
    Tron 2-0
    Eldrazi 2-1
    Eldrazi 2-1
    Affinity 2-1

    Next stop: GPT modern this Saturday.
    Last edited by paeng4983; 02-18-2016 at 08:10 PM.
    TJB

    http://deartiyopaeng.blogspot.com/ <---- (updated) MTG related blog. ^_^

    TES: 102nd out of 2000 players at GP Kyoto 2015 (Legacy)

    UR Storm: 37th of 950 players at GP Guangzhou 2016 (Modern)

  16. #136
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    Remeber, you can also draw your entire deck with remand after you've got infinite mana. (Random tip.)
    Anyway, I find the Unstorm version is having a horrible time with eldrazi, but the normal version is quite ok, I mean, if they don't destroy you, Blood moon can take the game.
    At least it's better than burn, which has disappear thanks to the aliens...
    Quote Originally Posted by clavio View Post
    Brainstorm is easy to play

  17. #137
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    So my first modern tournament is ended.
    1. Scapeshifr 2-0
    2. Merfolk 2-0
    3. Merfolk 2-0
    4. BR deathshadow 0-2
    5. Burn 0-2
    6. Colorless eldrazi 1-2
    7. Coco 2-0

    What do we have to play in sb vs eldrazi?

    P.s. i'm playing UNstorm.

  18. #138
    jungle lion, good?...
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    From this week,
    Thursday at HPC, 4-0.
    Saturday at Scrappy Coco (GPT), 5-0-2 then gave the win to my friend in the finals because he wanted the points for him to reach at least the minimum points required for wmcq.

    list:
    http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=11605&d=266039&f=MO



    RE: sb vs eldrazi

    As for the traditional list, I bring-in the moons. Sometimes ETWs.
    Last edited by paeng4983; 02-22-2016 at 01:49 AM.
    TJB

    http://deartiyopaeng.blogspot.com/ <---- (updated) MTG related blog. ^_^

    TES: 102nd out of 2000 players at GP Kyoto 2015 (Legacy)

    UR Storm: 37th of 950 players at GP Guangzhou 2016 (Modern)

  19. #139
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    So today we have a 148-people modern tournament. I've lost last round for top 8. It was my second modern tournament. 5-1-2

    The list:
    Instants [25]
    2 Cryptic Command
    3 Noxious Revival
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Manamorphose
    4 Remand
    4 Thought Scour
    4 Visions of Beyond

    Sorceries [13]
    1 Faithless Looting
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Serum Visions
    4 Sleight of Hand

    Enchantments [4]
    4 Pyromancer Ascension

    Lands [18]
    1 Breeding Pool
    1 Hallowed Fountain
    1 Mountain
    1 Sulfur Falls
    2 Flooded Strand
    3 Steam Vents
    4 Scalding Tarn
    5 Island

    Sideboard:
    3 Rest for the Weary
    2 Timely Reinforcements
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Hurkyl's Recall
    1 Ancient Grudge
    3 Young Pyromancer
    2 Wear // Tear
    2 Pyroclasm

    T1: 2-0 RBU Grixis control
    T2: 1-1 Kiki chorde
    T3: 2-0 Blue Moon
    T4: 0-2 RG Eldrazi
    T5: 2-0 Grizelbrand reanimator
    T6: 2-0 WGB Smthing with creatures, discard and lingering souls
    T7: 2-0 UW control
    T8: 0-2 UW Eldrazi

  20. #140
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    Re: Pyromancer Ascension

    @OlegtheSuper
    Can you pls share your experiences on your three eldrazi opponents?
    And also, how you sideboard.

    Thanks!
    TJB

    http://deartiyopaeng.blogspot.com/ <---- (updated) MTG related blog. ^_^

    TES: 102nd out of 2000 players at GP Kyoto 2015 (Legacy)

    UR Storm: 37th of 950 players at GP Guangzhou 2016 (Modern)

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