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Thread: [Deck] Imperial Painter

  1. #5121
    Land Destruction Enthusiast
    Megadeus's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Yeah I started 5-0 in the tram open this past weekend with Imperial but we ended up 6-5 and dropping after that. Paired against 2 pro tour teams plus some bad beats and my teammates couldn't seem to win a round together so every round I won we won but every time I lost we lost. Copter was decent but nothing special and the time I had a Copter on board, drew a second copter with no creature felt so insanely bad. I think I'm off on copter as well
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  2. #5122
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    So I played the RG Painter list at a weekly last night:

    Maindeck:
    4 Karn, the Great Creator

    4 Goblin Engineer
    4 Goblin Welder
    2 Imperial Recruiter
    3 Painter's Servant

    3 Punishing Fire
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    3 Veil of Summer

    2 Smuggler's Copter
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    3 Grindstone
    1 Ichor Wellspring
    1 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    3 Mox Opal

    3 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    4 Great Furnace
    4 Grove of the Burnwillows
    3 Mountain
    3 Taiga

    Sideboard:
    1 Painter's Servant
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Grindstone
    1 Lion's Eye Diamond
    1 Magus of the Moon
    1 Mycosynth Lattice
    1 Pithing Needle
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Sylvan Library
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Trinisphere
    2 Walking Ballista

    Deck felt soso, had wins against Goblins, Squawk and Taxes, and 4c Loam with a loss against 4c Delver. Veil of Summer didn't get cast a single time all evening, but I did like the Punishing Grove setup which was made better by the addition of Smuggler's Copters as a way to generate card advantage. If I were to run it back again, I'd probably cut the Veils for more Pyroblast effects and keep the Copter/Punishing Fire/Grove synergy in the deck.

  3. #5123
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesture View Post
    the Punishing Grove setup which was made better by the addition of Smuggler's Copters
    I'm not big on Coptors, but that actually sounds hot

  4. #5124

    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesture View Post
    So I played the RG Painter list at a weekly last night:

    Maindeck:
    4 Karn, the Great Creator

    4 Goblin Engineer
    4 Goblin Welder
    2 Imperial Recruiter
    3 Painter's Servant

    3 Punishing Fire
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    3 Veil of Summer

    2 Smuggler's Copter
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    3 Grindstone
    1 Ichor Wellspring
    1 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    3 Mox Opal

    3 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    4 Great Furnace
    4 Grove of the Burnwillows
    3 Mountain
    3 Taiga

    Sideboard:
    1 Painter's Servant
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Grindstone
    1 Lion's Eye Diamond
    1 Magus of the Moon
    1 Mycosynth Lattice
    1 Pithing Needle
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Sylvan Library
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Trinisphere
    2 Walking Ballista

    Deck felt soso, had wins against Goblins, Squawk and Taxes, and 4c Loam with a loss against 4c Delver. Veil of Summer didn't get cast a single time all evening, but I did like the Punishing Grove setup which was made better by the addition of Smuggler's Copters as a way to generate card advantage. If I were to run it back again, I'd probably cut the Veils for more Pyroblast effects and keep the Copter/Punishing Fire/Grove synergy in the deck.
    I like the idea of the Punishing combo in the GR lists, but I think there are some pit falls in the list that can make it clunky. To name a few I have not been a fan of Mox opal or wellspring in testing, Engineer feels like our worst creature by far I would rather have more recruiters then more Engineers especially with magus' in the board. With a heavier splash of green I think we can find some good sideboard cards, I like library a lot due to one of the big issues with painter IMHO is card selection. Also as you mentioned so few blast effects should be criminal.

    I might test the following changes (ignoring the sideboard for now but I will edit my post once I have done some research in that regard)

    -3 Mox Opal
    -1 Icor Wellspring
    -1 Goblin Engineer
    -1 Taiga

    + 2 Pyroblast
    + 1 Red Elemental Blast
    + 1 Imperial Recruiter
    + 1 Smuggler's Copter
    + 1 Mountain

    I'll test this a bit tonight and follow up.

  5. #5125
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Quote Originally Posted by tired_papasmurf View Post
    I'm not big on Coptors, but that actually sounds hot
    Yeah most people on this forum didn't seem to like the Copters, but I figured I'd give them a shot since I had them lying around. Turned out pretty well, but I'd have to get a lot more experience with the deck before I declared them to be optimal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Milo687 View Post
    I like the idea of the Punishing combo in the GR lists, but I think there are some pit falls in the list that can make it clunky. To name a few I have not been a fan of Mox opal or wellspring in testing, Engineer feels like our worst creature by far I would rather have more recruiters then more Engineers especially with magus' in the board. With a heavier splash of green I think we can find some good sideboard cards, I like library a lot due to one of the big issues with painter IMHO is card selection. Also as you mentioned so few blast effects should be criminal.

    I might test the following changes (ignoring the sideboard for now but I will edit my post once I have done some research in that regard)

    -3 Mox Opal
    -1 Icor Wellspring
    -1 Goblin Engineer
    -1 Taiga

    + 2 Pyroblast
    + 1 Red Elemental Blast
    + 1 Imperial Recruiter
    + 1 Smuggler's Copter
    + 1 Mountain

    I'll test this a bit tonight and follow up.
    Yeah wasn't a huge fan of the Opals, but I do think they help to not get cut off of green mana (which is only relevant for Veil and SB cards.) Engineers had their awkward spots, but I think the 4x Engineer and the 2x Recruiter were concessions to Wrenn and Six being able to ping off Copter activators. Library was never drawn, but I'm sort of unsure of its place in this deck as its difficult to dig to find a singleton our singleton copy and we don't have E Tutor to fetch it. Maybe add an extra copy somewhere in the 75? I could see it taking the place of Wellspring in the main deck.

  6. #5126
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    i think it might be worth noting that retrofitter foundry is very good and should probably be tested.
    -rob

  7. #5127

    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    i think it might be worth noting that retrofitter foundry is very good and should probably be tested.
    I had a miracles player play that against me in a league when I was on 4-color control. Seems good against control decks and slower decks, but I feel like it is bad to the same things the combo is bad against: Artifact hate, Creature hate (to an extent). It does have the merit of being fodder for Engineer and welder? Not sure if that is worth the slots though.

  8. #5128

    GP Atlanta

    Hey Painters.

    Long time reader. First time poster. I have been playing Imperial Painter since the dawn of time & decided to finally get involved in the community. I am playing the mono red variant in Magicfest Atlanta for the Legacy main event this Saturday & wanted to post my decklist. It feels standard compared to the spicy tech these red green lists have been presenting but I want to share my list with you all regardless.

    Lands (19)

    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Great Furnace
    7 Mountain

    Creatures (19)

    4 Goblin Welder
    4 Goblin Engineer
    4 Imperial Recruiter
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    3 Painter's Servant

    Spells (14)

    4 Pyroblast
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    4 Blood Moon
    4 Karn, the Great Creator

    Artifacts (8)

    4 Lotus Petal
    3 Grindstone
    1 Ensnaring Bridge

    Sideboard (15)

    2 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Shenanigans
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Lion's Eye Diamond
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Grindstone
    1 Painter's Servant
    1 Phyrexian Revoker
    1 Spellskite
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Trinisphere
    1 Mycosynth Lattice

    I have been putting up results at my local game store for quite some time & have been trying to tweak the Karn wishboard for the current meta. I recently cut the Liquimetal Coating (though it pains me to do so) for Spellskite. With UR Delver & Wrenn decks at an all time high, protecting my Painter/Welder is critical. Shenanigans has always been an all-star but without Liquimetal Coating, I fear it will no longer have the cutting edge I require from it as a recycling shatter that hits permanents I decree to be artifacts. Should I cut the Shenanigans altogether to return Liquimetal Coating to the board to "port down" walkers on upkeep when I have a Karn out & pop basic lands with his +1? Or is it worth letting it go & perhaps replacing the Shenanigans as well? I have been tuning my list for years now & I feel like the deck is even in a better position than when we had top. Sure, card selection will always be the deck's weakness, but it is more explosive & versatile than many combo decks in the meta. Blood Moons have never been more oppressive VS the greedy 4c Wrenn decks, especially with Karn +1 popping Mox Diamonds. I would be honored to hear the thoughts & opinions of my fellow painters before I enter this tournament. Thank you all for keeping the deck alive through the hard times & persisting through adversity to continue playing the deck we have all have grown to love. I'm not leaving Atlanta until I paint the town blue!

  9. #5129

    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesture View Post
    So I played the RG Painter list at a weekly last night:

    Maindeck:
    4 Karn, the Great Creator

    4 Goblin Engineer
    4 Goblin Welder
    2 Imperial Recruiter
    3 Painter's Servant

    3 Punishing Fire
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    3 Veil of Summer

    2 Smuggler's Copter
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    3 Grindstone
    1 Ichor Wellspring
    1 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    3 Mox Opal

    3 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    4 Great Furnace
    4 Grove of the Burnwillows
    3 Mountain
    3 Taiga

    Sideboard:
    1 Painter's Servant
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Grindstone
    1 Lion's Eye Diamond
    1 Magus of the Moon
    1 Mycosynth Lattice
    1 Pithing Needle
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Sylvan Library
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Trinisphere
    2 Walking Ballista

    Deck felt soso, had wins against Goblins, Squawk and Taxes, and 4c Loam with a loss against 4c Delver. Veil of Summer didn't get cast a single time all evening, but I did like the Punishing Grove setup which was made better by the addition of Smuggler's Copters as a way to generate card advantage. If I were to run it back again, I'd probably cut the Veils for more Pyroblast effects and keep the Copter/Punishing Fire/Grove synergy in the deck.
    I urge you to try Wrenn & Six + Wasteland in there.

  10. #5130

    Re: GP Atlanta

    Quote Originally Posted by TaKtiKaL View Post
    Lands (19)

    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Great Furnace
    7 Mountain

    Creatures (19)

    4 Goblin Welder
    4 Goblin Engineer
    4 Imperial Recruiter
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    3 Painter's Servant

    Spells (14)

    4 Pyroblast
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    4 Blood Moon
    4 Karn, the Great Creator

    Artifacts (8)

    4 Lotus Petal
    3 Grindstone
    1 Ensnaring Bridge

    Sideboard (15)

    2 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Shenanigans
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Lion's Eye Diamond
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Grindstone
    1 Painter's Servant
    1 Phyrexian Revoker
    1 Spellskite
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Trinisphere
    1 Mycosynth Lattice

    I have been putting up results at my local game store for quite some time & have been trying to tweak the Karn wishboard for the current meta. I recently cut the Liquimetal Coating (though it pains me to do so) for Spellskite. With UR Delver & Wrenn decks at an all time high, protecting my Painter/Welder is critical. Shenanigans has always been an all-star but without Liquimetal Coating, I fear it will no longer have the cutting edge I require from it as a recycling shatter that hits permanents I decree to be artifacts. Should I cut the Shenanigans altogether to return Liquimetal Coating to the board to "port down" walkers on upkeep when I have a Karn out & pop basic lands with his +1? Or is it worth letting it go & perhaps replacing the Shenanigans as well? I have been tuning my list for years now & I feel like the deck is even in a better position than when we had top. Sure, card selection will always be the deck's weakness, but it is more explosive & versatile than many combo decks in the meta. Blood Moons have never been more oppressive VS the greedy 4c Wrenn decks, especially with Karn +1 popping Mox Diamonds. I would be honored to hear the thoughts & opinions of my fellow painters before I enter this tournament. Thank you all for keeping the deck alive through the hard times & persisting through adversity to continue playing the deck we have all have grown to love. I'm not leaving Atlanta until I paint the town blue!
    I like your very straight forward approach of the deck. I would make some few changes, but for most of them it is a matter of personnal preference. Here is what I would do:
    -2 SSG
    -1 Karn
    +1 painter
    +1 revoker (from side)
    +1 reb (from side)

    -1 surgical or shenanigans
    +2 thorn of amethyst
    +1 fiery confluence

    I'm not very convinced by the amount of spirit guides and I think it is better to improve the odds of natural painter. Multiple Karns are not very good, and I think 3 is better than 4of. You lack a bit of tools vs ANT which is big at the moment, so I added thorns. And you also miss some board sweepers so I added fiery confluence which is quite good in many matchups. With more space in the side I would have also included 2 pyrokinesis for delver decks/elves/d&t... stuff like that.

  11. #5131

    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Played my list in the main event & went 3-3 drop. It was rough. I beat anything that wasn't UR Delver, but sadly the event was swarming with them. (All 3 of my losses were UR Delver) Once they turned the corner it was unwinnable. I never played the mirror (which is a shame because I have lots of practice with it) but it was insane how often I heard people saying they played against Mono-Red Painter, Shortcake & even spicy Painter brews. (One guy was on a hybrid list that combined Urza Thopter & traditional Blue Painter) my wins were VS Grixis Control, Dragon Stompy & Storm. After dropping I played in the PTQ VS Lands, Stoneblade, Taxes, Storm & 2 Loam decks, which was a much more diverse meta representation. Never lost a round to Storm today, so perhaps the goal of tweaking my list for the future should be more focused around dealing with the Delver menace. Blasts countering True Names & popping Delvers just wasn't enough when Young Pyromancer came down & flooded the board with angry little red men. It also feels bad knowing that they can find their 1 of Null Rod with relative ease. Dreadhorde Arcanist recasting Brainstorms & Ponders from the graveyard allowed them to dig up just about anything they needed to find. Spellskite helped, but that poor little horror couldn't protect my assets all by itself. The moral of the story is... my Painter list needs more answers to that deck's threats somewhere in the 75 to be able to hang with the big boys.

  12. #5132
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    I just finished 2nd out of 134 in Finnish legacy nationals with my mono red list:

    //Main
    10 Mountain
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Imperial Recruiter
    4 Karn, the Great Creator
    4 Pyroblast
    4 Goblin Engineer
    4 Blood Moon
    3 Painter's Servant
    3 Grindstone
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Ensnaring Bridge
    2 Smuggler's Copter
    2 Goblin Welder
    1 Magus of the Moon
    1 Hope of Ghirapur
    1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
    1 Chrome Mox

    //Sideboard
    SB: 3 Thorn of Amethyst
    SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
    SB: 2 Pyroclasm
    SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
    SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
    SB: 1 Mycosynth Lattice
    SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
    SB: 1 Grindstone
    SB: 1 Painter's Servant

    Round 1 win 2-0 BUG delver
    Round 2 win 2-0 Stoneblade
    Round 3 win 2-1 BURG(?) control, I think
    Round 4 win 2-0 Lands
    Round 5 win 2-0 Lands
    Round 6 loss 0-2 Stoneblade
    Round 7 win 2-1 Bomberman
    Round 8 ID
    Quarterfinals win 2-0 Death & Taxes
    Semifinals win 2-0 RUG delver
    Finals Lost 0-2 Jeskai mentor

    I don't play much nowadays, so I don't know much of the current format, but have no doubt that Goblin Engineer and Karn are pure gas for this deck. You now get to play 8 super powerful maindeck tutors in mono red.

    I lost both my feature matches. I always lose them. I'm so nervous. I make terrible plays and realize them as soon as it's too late. Finals went better, though, despite losing.

    Imperial painter has always been my pet deck, meaning I play it even if it's not that good. But this iteration felt very capable.
    Last edited by Hopo; 10-07-2019 at 02:41 AM.
    Some of my friends sell records,
    some of my friends sell drugs.

  13. #5133

    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Congrats, I watched the finals stream as it luckily was shared around a bit :-). I was wondering about that Jaya, felt a bit old school.

    Looked like a lot of delver / UWx control variants. Looking forward to (after)thoughts on how to beat these value/card advantage machines.

  14. #5134
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Thanks! Old habits die hard :) Jaya used to be my go-to swiss multi-tool for the grindy games under Ensnaring bridge, chalices and such. So yeah, it is not neccessary anymore since Karn is an answer to pretty much anything imaginable.

    Against value decks you just cast bomb after bomb until the one that survives takes the game over. Before Karn and Engineer, your plays were easy to ignore until you threaten to activate combo. Now you have so much going on that they *have* to keep up or just lose. Yesterday outside my two losses they always ran dry before me. Between Karn and goblins the deck finally has inevitability through recursion and tutoring.
    Some of my friends sell records,
    some of my friends sell drugs.

  15. #5135

    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Right, both against UW variants you lost :(.

    What's your thoughts about 4 Blood Moon? Yay or nay?

  16. #5136
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    I used to play 8 moons. I find 5 comfortable. Thinking of dropping one more because it is not the best card in the deck anymore.

    I won and lost against uw variants. Someone who actually plays this game might likely have done better.
    Some of my friends sell records,
    some of my friends sell drugs.

  17. #5137

    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Thanks for that reply btw. Paint on and really cool to see you rocking it.

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