[Deck] Imperial Painter

[mcbain]

The whole point of playing koth is the ultimate. If removal is in their range, try targeting volc/nonbasicsmooned next time.

Lejay hits on a good point here. A lot of time think koth is a double win con (4/4's and emblem) when in a lot of matchups we are just the control deck and don't need to risk our lands getting STP or terminus'ed. If they are tapped out for jace, while that's another story.

[Uroborian]

You can always target their mountain...get around them destroying your land. Plus that would keep your # of mountain high. Yes if they are tapped out try hitting with a 4/4 but otherwise you might need to animate their mountain.

[drude1]

Sure, targeting their mountains, if available, isn't a bad idea. However, it still means that I'm starting to do something with koth 3 turns after I play him. And then I have to hope that I've played a blood moon, otherwise I'm probably doing 2-3 points of damage a turn if I'm not using my mana for something else. Don't get me wrong; I dont hate koth, but I'm just looking for alternatives that might also be good and just throwing the charbelcher out there. Yes, it does have the hindrance of getting shut down by null rod or getting blown up by artifact removal. But it can also get resurrected with a welder, which koth or assemble can't do. I also REALLY like it over processor as it doesn't cost you life and doesn't require an attack step. I was goldfishing with it last night and there were activations where it would hit for 10 points a turn, especially if you can control your land draws with a top (put land on top to draw and then activate).

As for Curse of Marit Lage, I love the affect obviously. They only hesitation I have is that casting cost. At 5cc Omnitell has typically already gone off. But it would still be good against Miracles. Definitely worth testing some.

Edit: unfortunately, Curse of Marit Lage is not available on MTGO

[wolfstorm]

So after facing TES twice and punting out of SCG Dallas today going 5-3 which I lost 2 of the matches to myself partly due to lack of sleep, and inexperience from my break (accidentally over milled myself and let a horde of goblins through my Ebridge simultaneously milling away the combo win and protection because I frogot my own damn grindstone mechanic on a known top 3 of red cards! >_<* Never ever ever again) I decided to look for a card that recruiter can tutor to answer mass 1/1's and my friend suggested IMO a brilliant card.

Bloodfire Dwarf

I had empty the warrens cast on me 3 times today for 12 goblins and two of the matches I had time to play a recruiter and its tutor target before lethal damage post warrens but had no outs to search for, this could be that out from the sideboard, while also being handy vs young pyromancer and monastery mentors tokens.


I'll try to type up a summary of my games after I sleep for hopefully a day. /exhausted

[GoblinZ]

So after facing TES twice and punting out of SCG Dallas today going 5-3 which I lost 2 of the matches to myself partly due to lack of sleep, and inexperience from my break (accidentally over milled myself and let a horde of goblins through my Ebridge simultaneously milling away the combo win and protection because I frogot my own damn grindstone mechanic on a known top 3 of red cards! >_<* Never ever ever again) I decided to look for a card that recruiter can tutor to answer mass 1/1's and my friend suggested IMO a brilliant card.

Bloodfire Dwarf

I had empty the warrens cast on me 3 times today for 12 goblins and two of the matches I had time to play a recruiter and its tutor target before lethal damage post warrens but had no outs to search for, this could be that out from the sideboard, while also being handy vs young pyromancer and monastery mentors tokens.

Actually I have one Bloodfire Dwarf in my sb recently for dnt, elves and pyromancers, also partly because I don't have Martyr of Ashes at hand, but I think Dwarf is good enough.

[wolfstorm]

Actually I have one Bloodfire Dwarf in my sb recently for dnt, elves and pyromancers, also partly because I don't have Martyr of Ashes at hand, but I think Dwarf is good enough.

It also costs 1 less and while not always relevant his damage is guaranteed for those times when your top decking or bad on luck ha

[mcbain]

It also costs 1 less and while not always relevant his damage is guaranteed for those times when your top decking or bad on luck ha

I have even played one bloodfire dwarf maindecl before. This was when delver, specifically UR cruise delver was prevalent in the meta, along with other pyromancer decks. In addition some of our rougher game one matchups like DnT, elves, or dredge we're never that excited to see it.

Overall i have found this to be a good card in the mono red version of the deck which often can afford the room (which I'm currently playing).

[GundamGuy]

It also costs 1 less and while not always relevant his damage is guaranteed for those times when your top decking or bad on luck ha

This are valid reasons to consider Bloodfire Dwarf... but I still like the option have having a bit more reach.

So knowing that you'll want either Bloodfire Dwarf or Martyr of Ashes do you have a sideboard split in mind with Pyroclasm (or simular effect) like 1 Bloodfire Dwarf / Martyr of Ashes and 1 or 2 Pyroclasm? What are everyone's thoughts on this?

[RingoDeathStarr]

I've run Bloodfire for a while before, and while it's pretty good, usually tutor for EE is better I find.

[Morcrux]

Let's not forget about Shard Phoenix, which have been used in several top 8 lists. While not as cheap as the dwarf, 2 dmg secures that every relevant creature is killed, and the Phoenix can recur itself if needed.

[Kap'n Cook]

Posting for Seth his most recent list and ideas:

Current Shortcake

4 Imperial Recruiters
4 Painter’s servant
3 SSG
2 goblin Welder
1 Jaya Ballard
2 magus of the Moon

4 Blood Moon
4 Grindstone
6 blast effects
3 e tutor
2 SDT
2 lotus petal
1 ensnaring Bridge
2 Koth
1 EE

4 Mountains
5 fetch lands(onslaught of course)
2 plateau
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tombs

Side
4 Firebolt
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Cannonist
1 Trinisphere
4 RiP
1 helm of obedience
1 Viashino Heretic
1 blast effect

Overall I like this list. The Koth’s back maindecked are a new addition and I think that spot can be many things pending your meta. Adding a canonist, mass removal dude, additional welder, Magus of the moon, or even additional blast effects or ensnaring bridges may be correct in your meta. I think this basically has the core 52-53 cards and then you can modify as tolerated. For me those cards were the 2 koth, 1 additional etutor, 1 ensnaring bridge, 1 magus of the moon, 1 ee, and then an additional mana source to take my overall count to 24. EE continues to be randomly strong and never dead. I advise most to test it out. I would not say it should be part of that 52-53 card core, but it is as close as you can come to something that is a random answer to so much and the best catch all this side of Jaya.

It feels tight and I know it is basically very similar to Jack’s list , at least at the core. We have some different views on how to handle and approach problems which lead to some slight variations in the other 5 cards or so. I would say his results speak for themselves and I would advise most to follow his lead. The board remains largely unchanged these days. I could see the argument for another taxing effect and canonist continues to amaze me as the format has changed. A 2/2 split of canonist and trinisphere could work. I know in times past I was against tutoring for combo hate against tendrils list. But with them moving away from the epic storm and more towards slower past in flames list, I have found this to be a good strategy. I have really liked the canonist even against burn as they basically have to kill it as it just slows them down unlike a lot of our other non combo cards and 2 of them and the rip/helm combo sideboard in nicely when you remove moon effects and Jaya in that match up. I still love firebolt and wouldn’t cut it even as the meta changes. Graveyard strategies are a real thing as is dredge so some graveyard hate should be included. RiP is still the best hoser available and works nicely with the combo. Heretic is a favorite of mine, but he should probably be another blast effect or a mass removal of some sort.

I have also been tinkering with the idea of Ajani Vengent lately. I am lost on who suggested it pages and pages ago, but great idea. At the time Lightning bolts were too plentiful to really risk exposing a white mana source to basically lightning helix someone I felt. But with the shifting meta he does some really good things. He is super strong against miracle, does more against omniscience decks as his taxing is very helpful with a moon in play. In general his taxing effect makes the moon stronger as you can void that whole search out a basic first play that so many decks depend on to beat moon. The real question comes in the adjustment to the mana base. Right now I just replaced a mountain with a dual land, and a SSG with a lotus petal. I have often times considered taking out ensnaring bridge from the main deck and using that slot to use three total planeswalkers in the list. But when I did that testing I wanted another mana source(probably fast making the count 3SSG and 3 lotus petals for 6 totals so you aren’t too far behind). But to do this I cannot come up with the additional cut really as I want all the other cards. If a gun was put to my head it would probably to move a Magus to the board however that just seems bad. I know most have gone down to 1 Magus and 5 total moon effects but I still like the 6 total I have been running for 2-3 years at this point.

Keep up the good work guys. Unfortunately the deck is red, and wizards hates red and the design space is limited so I imagine there will be few to no real changes to the deck. Just small changes to modify those last 6-7 spots in the list to adjust to the meta. Remember the deck only exist as a foil to the format in general with an oops I win two card combo.

Keep painting kids. Thought?

Seth

[ceustice]

I took Mono Red Imperial Painter to SCG DFW last weekend. First time playing it in anything other than a small local. My end record was 4-3-1. Probably should have been 6-3-1. I made a seriously greedy misplay in a game 3 that ended up costing me the match. The other one was against Shardless BUG which normally seems like a good matchup, but I got crushed he had the answers to all my spells. I assume this loss was do to me either keeping poor hands or choosing the wrong lines of play. The best part of playing the deck had to be the 6 or 7 turn 1 Blood moon wins. Overall I enjoyed the deck and plan to keep Bloodmooning.

[RingoDeathStarr]

Really like Ajani, but wish that it's +1 actually tapped the permanent in question. The card would be great at preemptively taking people off of a removal color (ie white in miracles), but unfortunately I think a savvy opponent will just never tap and let their shields down until you force them to remove stuff.
Repeated helix seems great though, and the ultimate seems somewhat attainable against Miracles and the like.

[RingoDeathStarr]

I tried out an Ajani in the board yesterday, and only got to use it against Miracles. It was terrible, Lightning Helixed once, spent the next two turns tapping down an inconsequential land, and then got hit with Council's Judgment. Koth would have ended the game in this time span, and Chandra would have let me see 3 extra cards.
I hope to try it out more against some kind of delver or DRS deck, but I suspect more spot removal would just be better.

On the other hand, I also tried out a Curse of Marit Lage, which has been bonkers against Miracles, and comes to close to totally locking them out of of the game on its own, and especially in conjunction with landing it before a second white source or hiding behind an Ensnaring Bridge. Probably would be better as an Assemble the Legion, except the card also has surprising utility against Omnitell. I managed to steal a game casting it early against an opponent in our FNM last night, but also in other test games, if you can assemble some sort of taxing effect with it, it can buy you many many turns. If a tax effect like 3sphere or Thorn, or something like Canonist, comes down before they Show and Tell, you can often let the Show and Tell resolve and put Curse into play, effectively making it so that they can only cast a spell on turns that they draw lands. In my experience, this usually buys enough time to beat them down, or really lock the game out by having a REB or two in hand. I might try a second copy, but I'm very happy with access to the first one, and it's nice as a bullet for Enlightened Tutor when you're topdecking against the control decks and don't have much going on onboard, as often happens.

[LeoCop 90]

Ian carle is currently 6-1 with shortcake at scg worcester so day 2 is guaranteed for him. Just blood mooned temur delver and won with idiots beats

[ORDAL]

I have a question that might be silly for most experts (im new painter player):

We re playning the first turn in a big GPT with Monored Imperial Painters, we lost the die roll.

OPPNONENT (Unknow): keep

WE: keep with this hand: Ancient Tomb, Mountain, Siaman Spirit guide, Painter, Blood moon, jaya and goblin welder.

OPPONENT: Tropical Island, deathrite shaman GO

WE: Draw Mountain, then?

its so easy play go for blood moon under all free counters of the world? Maybe is a stupid question but im very happy if most expert show me the way. ty guys

[RingoDeathStarr]

Slam it. Trading your moon and SSG for a chance to win the game or a force of will and a blue card is good. If it gets dazed, that sucks, but you have to take those risks, and you'll likely resolve painter if moon doesn't gonthrough. If you don't slam moon, they might hold up decay depending on your alternative turn 1 play.

[RingoDeathStarr]

The other alternative is Goblin Welder, which is a fine play against a turn 2 lili but hymn might take your moon and leave you with painter. Drs is also dead since no fetches were used yet, so blood moon is at it's best early here. Waiting a turn to beat a daze seems less good than making them have it.

[sroncor1]

Yes with the situation you mention slamming the Moon effect is the best play. I would do it every time. Especially as the resources they waste allow you to get welder into painter which really helps put pressure on most BUG decks as you negate their Abrupt Decay. That and Jaya is a rock star against Deathrite. With the mana you had you force you opponent to have the counter or just lose. Even if they have the basic in hand you will have such a strong advantage you need to do it.

The situation changes if they had cracked a fetch as they will often do games 2 and 3 as an activ Deathrite may change that line of play. In that situation I may try and go Goblin Welder playing around Daze then Painter. If they went swamp you obviously play painter first then Welder. After thAt consider Moon as you will be taxing their mama production as they have to get a source of blue by turn two really.

Seth

[GundamGuy]

Yes with the situation you mention slamming the Moon effect is the best play. I would do it every time. Especially as the resources they waste allow you to get welder into painter which really helps put pressure on most BUG decks as you negate their Abrupt Decay. That and Jaya is a rock star against Deathrite. With the mana you had you force you opponent to have the counter or just lose. Even if they have the basic in hand you will have such a strong advantage you need to do it.

The situation changes if they had cracked a fetch as they will often do games 2 and 3 as an activ Deathrite may change that line of play. In that situation I may try and go Goblin Welder playing around Daze then Painter. If they went swamp you obviously play painter first then Welder. After thAt consider Moon as you will be taxing their mama production as they have to get a source of blue by turn two really.

Seth

Even if they cracked a fetch for that tropical island then played Deathrite Shaman, that Shaman is still summoning sick during your first turn. Yes having the option to make exactly one mana from Deathrite on their next turn or later might be important but I don't think it would change my line of play for the first turn.