I hadn't seen that. And yeah that's a pretty underwhelming match. BG depths is a deck with barely any interaction that folds to moon. I wish it had been one of my hourlong miracles grind fests or something lol.Originally Posted by jandax
I also keep in exactly 2 moons against D&T, it's cool to see that others have independently found that to be ideal. It's enough that you see one copy at the point in the game that port lock starts to become a problem, but few enough that you don't flood your hand with it. I don't like having to play it but port can win the game against us if unchecked.
I agree with pinkfrosting that the DNT match up is complex. Often these are great games.
I'm running 1 explosives 2 Chandra 2 bridge in my main and have not yet had huge issues with Dnt (beyond 50-50) in game 1.
For sideboard I will test kreturn. That being said I have been a huge fan of pyrokenisis and or sudden shock and have had huge success with it in the past.
I am trying a new side right now in response to some regional meta shifts:
2 swords to plowshears
2 trinisphere
2 ajani
2 crypt
2 sulfur elemental
1 hedge mage
1 canonist
1 plains
1 e tutor
1 sphere of law
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Personally I'd never go below 3 Blood Moons... I know it's a cornercase and I know that a lot of people wouldn't agree with me, but the versions of Death and Taxes that runs Flagstones of Trokair are doomed if a turn 1 BM drops. It's been a while, so I don't know if the FoT builds of Death and Taxes are still a "thing", but if it is... It's fabolous :D
I would agree. Between permission lands, caverns, flagatones and karakas, it is surprising how few plains the deck actually runs. Not only that, but it's pretty important to shut off wastelands and ports. I think sudden shock is the single best card in my SB against D&T, and I run a sulfur elemental and confluence (confluence is pretty damn good though).
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Moons are good vs d&t. I'm never unhappy to see one. Fiery confluence recks d &t. Say goodbye to your creatures/jitte. Every game against d&t where I was successfully able to cast a fiery confluence i definitely won.
Current board plan as follows against Dnt:
-2 tutor
-2 REB
-4 Petal
+1 Hedgemage
+2 Sulfur elemental
+2 Ajani
+2 Swords to Plowshares
+1 Plains
DnT need to respect our combo and pretending to develop or threaten the combo will cause them to play defensively. Generally my main plan is to develop mana and preserve my life total (similar to any delver match up post board). Again, similar to delver this is where I feel the 20th land from the sideboard is extra strong, especially since its a basic plains. They will focus on trying to lock you off your combo, this is fine, but pretend to put up a fight about it. Secretly you are just going to win with planeswalkers, value, and a back breaking sweeper (sulfur elemental in my case).
Naming white with sulfur elemental can be back breaking if you can take out a revoker or two in the process. Especially if you can use the split second to your advantage.
The swords are for other decks but there is no issue bringing them in here.
Do you find that you have adequate white sources postboard with that sideboarding plan? I'd be interested in hearing how the swords have been working for you.
It's definitely meta dependant. I find that on MTGO they generally run enough basics that I only want 2, but I have those corner case games where the turn 1-2 blood moon just wins the game against them. But considering they also run vial it usually just cuts them off swords until they find a basic later in the game. It also always resolves and they only have councils judement and flickerwisp to deal with it. 3 is fine I think too, depends on the meta. Online I usually don't see the flagstones version but I have a couple times.
I run 4 Arid Mesa and 1 plains after sideboard. You could always trim a blood moon and keep a petal. Frankly it's fine though your not in a rush ever. Have the plains is amazing especially to allow strong plays like swords or ajani while under a moon.
The plows so far have been great. There are just so many match ups where you can use them it solves so many issues.
I tested against RB reanimator post board tonight. Either it was variance or it still feels miserable even after bringing in
2 trinisphere
2 plow
1 canonist
2 crypt
2 ajani
1 e tutor
Goblin welder feels really key in this match up allowing you to cover off a lot of angles and potentially cycle crypts. I bring in ajani for Chandra simply bc you can always tap down their threat which is kinda like two more bridges.
Be careful not to toss out painter willy nilly or they will toss out Iona.
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It's all semantics at this point but they are playing anywhere from 7-10 basics. They play more basics than almost any other deck that is currently as well positioned as they are. Moons are really for the wasteland/ports that they play, I think it's very rare that you can turn 1 moon and they don't either have or quickly find a basic just given the composition of their deck. The majority of the games that I have lost to d&t is because I get choked on mana or just draw poorly without having a top to change the order of the 3 lands on the top of my deck.
That's interesting. Swords does seem like the better card in the delver matchups as you can unconditionally kill any creature. I feel like the one matchup where it actually hurts having plows over sudden shock/bolt is against miracles.
I played the Br reanimator matchup a bunch and I think it just comes down to getting a turn. I feel like if I get a turn without getting Sired, I have a good shot at winning. The nice thing about their deck is not having to play around counterspells, nothing felt worse in the UB reanimator matchup than your opponent going turn 1 griselbrand and basically knowing that none of your spells are going to resolve.
If anyone is on magic online in general for painter there is a shortcake clan. i just started messing around with figuring out how the group chat works as i was looking to bounce ideas around. if anyone wants to join just shoot me a message on there (utley26)
Edit: Also just realized that my inbox on here was jam full, no idea how long its been like that, so for anyone who has sent messages to me with no reply, sorry about that.
Strawberry Shortcake
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...erry-Shortcake
What a brainstorm do? Draw card and activate on draw effects fix hand, removing woods
#FreeNedleeds
I would never board in sudden shock against miracles and likely never bolt so that's not an issue. Between my 4 planeswalker, 2 sulfur elemental as well as all our normal stuff I don't have issues with miracles anymore.
Plow is the bees knees as is ajani. I would stress that without the plains in the side I would not play either of them.
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Interested in your idea with the plows and plains in the sideboard. Do you have your complete deck list?
I always board in sudden shocks against miracles. They are great for taking care of mentors and even for sneaking in that extra damage. I also play two confluence in the board. I would say that especially in game 2/3 I am going the damage route vs miracles and just have the threat of combo. If I play recruiter I go for another recruiter 99% of the time and just keep recruiting leaving one in my hand for the inevitable terminus.
Yeah i'm the same way. One of the ways I lose the matchup postboard is they get a random creature; usually clique or mentor online and are able to apply pressure pretty fast. In magical christmas land you can snipe Jace with sudden shocks as well, although you are more likely to normally with bolts. At the very worst it's less points of damage that you have to do. I think the only burn spell that I actually would never bring in against miracles is firebolt.
You should create a facebook group so we can be as cool cats like the miracles players.
@kapn: you might find some messages from 2015 from me. Thought you were kind of a dick for never replying💩
@plissken: yeah, I fell like sudden shocks are a must against Miracles. If you vN keep them off a mentor or two it buys you an eternity of time to do your thing. I would also agree that games 2s and 3s are wonderful by beats or Chandra ultimate 95% of the time against miracles. I would also say that you win percentage against Miracles these days is probably 70%. We've come a long way.
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Yeah I would say that my main deck and sideboard are very geared towards that match up. I'm playing 7 blasts main and one in the board, 2 Chandras main and one in the board, 3 sudden shocks main and 1 in the board, 2 confluence in the board, and 2 surgical in the board for that match up. If anyone else is running surgical against miracles what do you consider the best targets besides counterbalance? Ill go for an entreat if it's there, then probably stp or wear tear.
5-2 today. Losses to Bug delver in 3, miracles in 2. Beat Bug delver, miracles, dnt, merfolk, loam pox. The games felt really strange on the whole today, meaning there were no easy games and a lot of 'good' opening hands did not pan out as they normally do, making it a grind to slog through for the wins and i was consistently finishing each round with like 5-10 minutes left. Haven't had an event like that in a while.
I've been testing out changes mainly in the board and have been happy with where it is heading, but do not feel like it is passable yet. I have taken a few ideas from what people have been talking about the past ~3-5 pages as well as some older preferences to settle on what I'm playing now. The biggest difference for me was I chose to put a Chandra main like many of you have been doing, but over the Jaya, which I almost can't believe I just typed that. It's just higher impact, especially game 1 and still offers a game winning ultimate. That does leave the tutor targets as only painter and welder, but game 1s right now I think that's all that is needed since it's mainly just combo piece recursion or bridge protection. Board I wasn't able to play exactly what I wanted since I didn't have everything, but again, taking from some of your guys ideas and boards I am choosing to be able to transform into a much grindier deck if i want to, or just keep blazing fast combo. It's actually been really nice.
Running with this for now:
2 Sudden Shock
3 Pyroclasm
2 Sulfur Elemental
1 Duergar Hedge-Mage
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Flex
I really don't know if I will be comfortable removing Jaya, although it feels a lot like when I chose to cut down the Magus.
Strawberry Shortcake
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...erry-Shortcake
What a brainstorm do? Draw card and activate on draw effects fix hand, removing woods
#FreeNedleeds
I had this discussion with one of my play group who plays miracles, the best thing to surgical against them is actually brainstorm
@Jack
I'm in the same boat as you about Jaya. With the way the format has developed in the last year it feels like you are forced to have cards that have a high impact the turn that they come in rather than cards that have a high impact gradually after they are played. I haven't completely cut her though (I don't think I can ever do that), but have relegated her to the sideboard for now.
I do really like a Magus in the main right now with the amount of people that have been sleeving up BUG decks. While he's not entirely a free win in some of the BUG matchups (darn you basic lands!), he still manages to land you enough time to find what you are looking or just kill them. In general it feels like the number of free wins that we have decreased as everyone has gotten/started playing tools to help combat our moon shenanigans. Even lands sometimes becomes a drag if they get a molten vortex/seismic assault early.
I think i'm in the minority here but I don't actually bring in surgicals in the matchup even though I run them in my board. While the card is good and i'm sure there will be spots where you can snag a counterbalance or swords, I think in general it's too reactive. Postboard I think the cards that you bring in should be individually strong by themselves and not really require any setup.
THIS.
This is what I would have typed out a year ago. This is what I would have done a year ago. A year ago I was on this forum bitching about miracles and dying to a random creature or getting blown out by Wear tear.
I was winning off the incompetence of my miracles opponents. Not on my terms.
No more. I feel totally at ease with miracles. Positive win %. My miracles opponents groan after our match having never expected such a battle.
Don't play their game. More importantly don't force yours. Play it as a game of inches. Be a midrange deck with a long game plan. Yes, there is a combo but early combo is not how we win the match, it's how we lose. End of the game when you have a Chandra, Ajani, painter on white, blood moon and their plains is locked down and then you combo them. That is how it's done.
https://youtu.be/-tGL-buZ94YGet all your value. Get it together. So it's together.
Count the number of ways for your miracles opponent has to interact with a planeswalker opposed to an artifact, enchantment, and creature.
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