I have to agree that scepter and goggles seem really bad in this deck. Maybe if you dramatically changed the deck and played 8 blasts, Orim's Chant, and lightning bolts main would I consider a scepter in the deck. At 5 mana though, there just seems to be so many other stronger cards against Miracles than goggles (eg. Curse of Marit Lage).
As for Nahiri, I've played with her some and she's been okay. I did play with Ajani for a while several months ago and didn't love it, as it felt like it wasn't doing enough against Miracles. Nahiri feels stronger but still clunky, like any Planeswalker. I'm really trying to concentrate and finding the combo ASAP so am trying 2 X tutors, 3 X top, 3 X recruiter, 1 X Nahiri and 2 X magma jet. Also still playing with the Aether grid...luvin' it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I would like to chime in on the basic plains comments from the last page. In my own experience, I can attest that it's either clunky or great. More than enough times I opened with it in hand and couldn't cast any of the red cards. However, it has (again in my own experience) been clunky for just one turn. If you can take a turn off to play it, you can go full throttle and play the deck the way it is meant to be played without fear of dissynergies (?). On top of that, it's easy to play the plains and represent another deck to bluff your way through that down turn. That's only in certain circumstances but still, the card doesn't stay clunky long for what it can do to the later game.
Anyone playing Nihiri still and how are you playing it? Splits between the MD and side or starting/benching a number of them? I feel that her value is best out of the board for her utility in a known matchup. 2RW is a lot to manage for something you can't tutor in G1s
I'm confused: Couldn't 16-2 mean you were playing in a small, inbred meta against inferior competition? Individual records shouldn't be a measuring stick for how an iteration of a deck performs, when there are a multitude of variables that could have affected the outcome of those matches.Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook
I still like Goggles and stick by it. It's just a good card that gives the deck more firepower, because you don't win all of your games by combo. Artifact Blast is a suggestion, which is what folks are here to listen to: ideas. Again, it doesn't have to be used against a single archetype. You also don't even know what my mono red list looks like with Goggles, so where are you coming up with <7 spells?
Last edited by Michael Keller; 04-24-2016 at 04:29 PM.
Well it's obvious that a lot of suggestion on this page will be cute, but it keeps the chat healthy, and lots of bad suggestions must be made before good ones can occur.
I for my part love seeing weird stuff being talked about, and will at least try it myself before giving final verdict.
That being said I understand kap's worry with Goggles in a atm stock deck (7 ish spells), but with added burn or some other tech it can be more appealing.
Also regarding plains, I'm no fan of it main ironically for the very same reasons people whined when I suggested Sea Gate Wreckage a while back, it creates a slighly less consistent mulligan. Then again I do love having a land in side (played with Wreckage there before for grindy matchups), and I agree with Keller that a basic plains is a nifty addition to go with the white density post-board. Only problem is that it's hard to find space for it.
Quick question. How has LED been preforming? Ive been on the fence for adding it to my list since the giant spike. Tutoring/playing it for a turn quicker grindstone activation seems very nice. My worry is having no blasts in hand for activation shenanigans by our blue opponents.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Seems marginal at best. I wouldn't drop money on LED if I didn't have one.
Jack and Drude can probably give a better answer as they have been playing but on paper it seems nice to have the potential to kill your opponent out of nowhere especially in matchups like d&t where if the game goes long most of your stuff is locked down.
This weekend I got 14th at the squabbles quest for power event this weekend with the matchups being:
0-2 UG Infect
0-2 Scapeshift Nic Fit
2-0 Legendary Miracles
2-0 Gw 12 post
2-1 Burn
2-0 Grixis Delver
2-0 Deathblade
I played a pretty stock list. I wanted to try 1 Nahiri and 1 Ajani, but I did not have them so my miracles package in the board was 1 Pia and Kiran and 1 Koth. Pia and Kiran were amazing in the fair matchups even if they were immediately taken care off. Highlight of using them was having one of the thopter tokens hit for 10 damage in the miracles matchup.
I have been playing pia and Kiran as well lately. Their ability to turn a stale game into a 1 or 2 turn clock is amazing - especially when an opponent is trying to draw out of our soft lock.
I've been debating if they are main deck able or sideboard, and if sideboard are they worth it.
Capt haddock, post, burn, and legends miracles are all tricky matchups when played by component opponents do you have any notes to elaborate on these games?
Regarding ajani, has anyone else had positive experiences with him. I really like the ability to have flexibility across multiple matchups. Even locking miracles off Plains while under a blood moon is huge. I would love to ultimate him on a miracles player.
Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk
I won't lie I think I got very lucky in most of those matchups but I can go into detail. I don't remember 100% of my boarding (I should probably start writing this down somewhere). Would definitely like to know what you guys think of my sideboarding.
12 post:
G1: I'm on the play. Opponent mulligans down to 5, I play a blood moon t1 and his first land drop is a bog. He promptly scoops after turn 3.
G2: I'm on the draw. I just get an aggressive start and just start playing out and swinging with a bunch of creatures. I made a big mistake here in searching for a jaya ballard instead of a magus to shut down any chances of him getting a titan online. I also made a stupid play of randomly vindicating a cloud post when his only basic was a forest, and he responded by warping wail my painter. I could have lost right there but luckily he didn't find anything to do with the 6 mana on his turn.
+1 rip, +1 pia and kiran, +1 crypt, +1 enlightened tutor
-1 spirit guide, -1 sensei's divining top, -1 lotus petal, -1 goblin welder
Rip and crypt are obviously to help us win via combo, I took out the welder because he's sort of meh with a RIP. I brought in pia and kiran in case the game went a little grindy and I had to push damage through. I was debating the enlightened tutor just to have another way to find whatever piece of the combo I needed to win but I think with taking out 1 petal that might have been a little too ambitious.
Burn:
This matchup came down to just being on the play G1 and G3, I won by around 3 life in both of those games.
G1: I'm on the play and have a quick combo + a few blasts. I quickly just grindstone him out, at the end of the game he shows me a lava spike and with me being at 3 life I guess he did not sequence his burn spells correctly at some point in the game.
G2: I'm on the draw and I kept a very greedy hand with only a petal and a great furnace and I get punished for it.
G3: I'm on the play again. Had a relatively quick combo and a few blasts and I was able to go off. He went all out on his turn and left me at 2 life and scooped after a little chuckle
-4 Blood Moon, -1 Magus, -2 Top
+1 Trinisphere, +1 Thorn, +4 Lightning Bolt, +1 Canonist
Moons are obvious as they don't do anything in this matchup and I took out top as I felt like it would be too slow. Brought in all the anti combo cards to slow them down and the burn to kill their creatures.
Miracles:
G1: I'm on the play. I quickly blood moon him and then combo off. He did draw a lot of his nonbasics so i'm able to combo off relatively easy. I saw a karakas and a cavern so I put him on legendary miracles.
G2: I'm on the draw. This was a very grindy matchup. I have never been so relieved to see one of my opponents play a RIP as painter. I know that people in this thread have mentioned bringing it in before against miracles but I think that is a big mistake. Welder is such a powerful tool against them and it seems silly to shut him down for no real reason.
The game pretty much goes I play some sort of threat, beat him down for a few life points and then he deals with them. I didn't see a Koth but Pia and Kiran did major work this game. He also casts takes possession and takes one of my grindstones but luckily he also had a needle played on grindstone. Some point into the late game he plays a back to basics and pretty much takes away all but 3 of my lands. At this point he's at about 2 life so with every recruiter that I find I just search for more recruiters. Godly thopter tokens casually almost winning me the game. I keep up any blasts that I find for counterbalances, jaces, cliques and venser and prevent him from landing anything big on the board.
-2 Blood Moon, -1 Magus, -1 Monkey, -1 Petal, -1 E Tutor I think
+1 Koth, +1 Pia and Kiran, +4 Lightning Bolt I think
Took out the moons because they are worse on the play. I took out the monkey, the petal and the E Tutor because I figured that the game would go long and I would find what I needed. Brought in the Koth and Pira and Kiran as bomby threats and brought in the bolts to snipe Jaces, Cliques and Vensers.
edit: I am thinking about trying them maindeck too, probably just them for jaya seems reasonable. Although whenever I do remove Jaya from my maindeck I find myself missing her too.
Last edited by CptHaddock; 04-27-2016 at 04:30 PM.
Does anyone have any experience against landstill? My local meta is a bunch of miracles, that I feel I understand the match up fairly well and probably have a positive match up against. Some have switched to a landstill type deck that plays mentor. I think I've won 1 game multiple match ups. There was just so much permission to get through and I almost want to say they game can be as bad as burn or show and tell.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
You played it well, but you also seems like you got lucky that your Burn opponent didn't realize that he was supposed to play the role of control in the matchup.
so this is a thing now..
http://imgur.com/b9d1RTS
why can't we do the same?
emrakul main in painter new meta?
ive been watching joe win 4 straight matches with emrakul off of nahiri ultimate. this looks like its gonna be a new meta... we are boned.
I actually had the idea of running 2 Nahiri main, and another Nahiri + Emrakul in side.. it would be incredible against against a few matchups (especially mirror), but I honestly think it's a really bad idea because it's far away from what we're trying to achieve.
If we draw the emra, it's a dead card unless you get to discard it with Nahiri. Miracles can Brainstorm or Clique away their, but we can't. And from experience, actually casting Nahiri early isn't always that easy with your own Blood Moons (need 4 petal in that case) and opponent's wastelands.
But from all I know, adding more petals and Nahiris may make it consistent enough, and the idea is funny.. I don't think it will work well enough, but it's worth testing with friends :)
This is probably not the thread for this but did Joe just take out all the entreats out? I know that entreat is clunky but it has the ability to just win some of your more difficult matchups if you cast it for a couple of angels.
I think the combo is pretty awesome as well but it's a pretty big nombo with bridge. So besides miracles and the mirror where else on paper would you want the combo where you would also be boarding out some/all of the ensnaring bridges?
Well isn't the more important issue that the miracles MU becomes almost impossible to win if they go for this strategy?
Even though I can't believe this to be the case too likely...
Painter can win without the combo. I think focusing on the combo vs. Miracles may not be right anyway.
In fact looking at that deck list, I would think the matchup would be pretty good for us...
I believe Joe's the "father" of the Legends version, so he's been playing without the Entreats for quite some time.
Not unusual for him to fool around with build like this, but I think it's way too early to say it's going to be meta, even Legends version took long time to spread after his success with it.
I agree with Grad, emra main would be a hassle. We can win without combo, but a lot of games against miracles are also won with a fast combo, if we run into a emra-trigger, that game would pretty much be a loss. We could play RiP main, tho it would be far more clunky to set up combo in quick fashion.
But yeah, as said, I don't think this will be meta anytime soon.
With only one emrakul, if you keep your life high enough, we can respond to the attack with grindstone activation too.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
the point is its already tough winning against miracles, getting a fast combo game one is a good way. Its out the window with emrakul main.
If there will be a new Emrakul, I'm sure that she will not have a shuffling effect as for Kozilek, the Great Distortion and Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger. If the new Emrakul will be used instead of the previous, some match-ups will improve for us. The other two often take the place of their older version, so this can be true for a new Emrakul and I hope so.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote
