Made 1st place at Eternal Clash again (Flensburg, northern Germany) with 58 participants with some really nice matches (beat Omni 2:0).
A friend published my tournement report on his website, you find it here:
https://bordifies.com/articles/leavi...-com/#more-237
congratz for the finish and nice report!
Good reading and contratz g le p!
When you're talking about a bad miracles match up - why don't you think about assemble the legion instead of a third Canonist?
Thanks. =)Originally Posted by zangoasyl
I would have a bad feeling replacing an anti-combo card with a card against Miracles but maybe this is just my paranoia about combo decks.
I'm not a fan boarding Assemble the Legion because Miracles is boarding Wear//Tear or Disenchant anyway, so this wincon is easy to remove postboard (nevertheless it wins you the game if they don't have their out). In Addition to that, Assemble is hard to cast if your Boarding plan involves cutting all Petals and land a Moon asap. But I'm definitely open to new boarding strategies against Miracles (with Mentors).
Went to a small monthly and chopped top 4 prizes despite playing like an idiot most of the day. You can see me get wrecked on stream a few times here:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post917655
Beat rug, red stompy, death and taxes, merfolk. Lost to tes and ubr delver in a close one I could have potentially won with the right plays at the end.
No alternate win cons like last time. It has felt strange not having a backup bomb of some sort but also feels much safer against the majority of the field and well streamlined with a relatively lower mana curve. I played with the shusher and brought it in against merfolk and stompy for chalices but never used it (should have recruited it against merfolk over jaya, cost me a game) Welder tricks were relevant as always and helped escape a double revoker on stone/mother of runes situation. Otherwise the list felt great with only 7 blast in the 75 and three tops. Yea it's only another six games but all testing has been encouraging. I'll be running this for a while as long as nothing changes.
Oh yea one more thing in the tournament report posted above, just combo out against miracles on their end step after their swords were dead. Can't terminus you then.
Anyways that's my random rant for the day.
-jack
Strawberry Shortcake
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...erry-Shortcake
What a brainstorm do? Draw card and activate on draw effects fix hand, removing woods
#FreeNedleeds
@GLEP: First off, congrats on the finish. Also a very good report with good detail. However, and this will probably come off as a shitty thing to say, but I think your results would have been much different if you were playing in the States. The reason I say that is that Painter is a well established deck over here at this point. And some of the mistakes that your opponents made just aren't made here anymore in my experience. When I first started playing this deck, I would get free wins all the time because people just weren't familiar with the interactions involved with the deck. I've gotten dozens of wins simply because my opponent didn't realize that I could activate grindstone and exchange it for the painter with welder in response. These days, I just don't get those free wins anymore. I have people pitch a land to FoW all the time when painter is set to blue. I also think people are siding for the deck a lot more. For example, I am seeing Null Rod ALL THE TIME!
I'm also not saying this to detract from your performance at all. You certainly want to take advantage of all of those opponent miscues when you can. I just feel that the people I have been playing are playing very tight against my deck and seem to have multiple answers to the combo.
As a general note, I also think that sneak and show variants are extremely popular over here right now. Not that the deck is unbeatable for us. But I do think we still need to consider alternative win cons in the board still. I will say that GLEP's list looks very stream-lined to a singular purpose, which in general is a very good thing. But by no means are show and tell/Emrakul decks dead. 12 post decks are also very popular as well. So we need to consider getting around Eldrazi triggers as we move forward.
Regarding sneak and show:
.
Round 6 of GP seatac I got bridge into play and won by running 2 servants into his emerkul then welding the one he blocked out for another painter servant. One. Damage. At. A. Time.
Needless to say he was - impressed.
Good showings to both of you. I'm glad spellskite was good for you as well.
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@drude1,
It's not "shitty" to say so. =)
Mistakes happen all the time and almost to everyone. I think lot's of wins are decided by making a mistake from one or the other (this can be really minor things turning out a few turns later for example). Sometimes it's your oppenent don't see he could have pitched his green card, but sometimes it's something else. Of course it's a difference what kind of mistake it is. This happened in 2nd round not in the finals, so I'm not really sure there is such a big difference between the states and europe... But this is kind of hard to discuss ;-)
The Eldrazi thing... I don't like turning my 2 card combo into a 3 card combo against another (then faster) combo deck. Maybe this is okay against Sneak Show as Bridge can stall the game quite a while, but against Omni you never had the time to assemble 3 cards to finally kill your opponent. I haven't played against Sneak Show for quite a while, so if you (or someone else) has good results with more cards against Eldrazi triggers in the board I would defenitly test it myself. From my testing I can say the white-hatebear-beatdown plan is quite ok.
Actually, I agree 100% with this and this was my point. I think we still need to consider cards like koth, or assemble, or whatever other alt. Win cons we can play in the SB for these kinds of MUs. Trying to combo off with grindstone agains Show and Tell decks is a lesson in futility. People are removing these cards due to Mentor in Miracles, but there are other applicable deck strategies to consider.
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I'm thinking to play the red version of the deck. I played a lot against Grixis Delver (with the fourth color) and it seems oddly unfavorable. Too much mana denial and it's difficult play around creatures other than Delver of Secrets without Lightning Bolt in the maindeck. What do you think about?
I find the delver players are so focused at tempoing you, largely due to our combo or blood moon, if you just refuse to over extend into them you will often be fine. Post board Bring in your burn spells and simply kill their dorks and keep your life total high.
At the GP I was quite happy with 3 firebolt and 2 pyrokinesis is the side. Pyrokinesis is such a blow out when they push all their cards into a pyromancer.
Try to keep it on the top of your deck so they don't see it with probe, which is typically the first spell they cast following a pyromancer.
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Anyone showing up this weekend in Jersey?
Scouted 4 players playing it. So far
Last edited by Uroborian; 11-28-2015 at 01:35 PM.
I'm here. Any other painter players in jersey?
I play Painter but I'm stuck working at the hospital that day. It sucks I'm literally 15 minutes away from the con center.
If someone overdoses on cardboard crack maybe I'll bump into one of you guys hah.
Went to the SCG NJ Open yesterday, running RW version; went 4-3-1 Drop. I don't play Legacy all that often because of college and I only got the deck together last June, so this was basically my first big tournament outside of the couple local Legacy Wednesdays I went to. Since I mostly played local, I only really had experience vs Delver and degenerate combo (Dredge, Tin Fins, Elves, Storm, etc).
List:
Creatures (17)
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter’s Servant
3 Goblin Welder
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Spellskite
1 Magus of the Moon
Spells (24)
3 Lotus Petal
4 Grindstone
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Blood Moon
4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Enlightened Tutor
Lands (19)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
3 City of Traitors
3 Plateau
1 Great Furnace
Sideboard (15)
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Duergar Hedge-Mage
2 Sudden Shock
1 Trinisphere
1 Rest in Peace
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Containment Priest
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Koth of the Hammer
(I had no idea what I was doing with the sideboard, so I chucked in a bunch of 1 ofs to see what worked)
Round 1: 0 - 2 Loss to Chris on Miricles
I've only really played local players, so this was actually my first time playing against Miricles, and boyhowdy I had no idea what to do. Blood Moon does (almost) nothing and he has a top that he can put on top of his deck to counter all my 1 mana spells? At least it was pretty quick....
Round 2: 2 - 0 Win to Kwan on BUG Delver(?)
I think it was Delver, didn't see much... Turn 1 Magus Game 1 and Blood Moon on turns 2 and 3 the next game shut him out fast. Brought in Shocks, Explosives, and a Bridge but ended up not needing them...
Round 3: 1 - 1 - 1 Draw with Adam on Enchantress
Both games were long and drawn out with me trying to blast enchantments and him trying to get an enchantress to stick.
Game 1 Turn 0 Leyline of Sanctity followed by Turn 1 Forest -> Wild Growth and I know what I'm facing. I managed to get the combo together Game 1, activated it, and then remembered that Enchantress wins with Emrakul and I should actually be on the beat-down plan. Whoops. Luckily for me, Adam didn't want me to see his deck, and conceded to the activation.
Sided in my Crypts, Canonist + Eidolon (to slow him down), and Bridge to stop Emmy. Took out 2 blasts, 2 Revokers (nothing to hit), and Welder.
Game 2 was grindy and Adam managed to get RIP on the field with the Helm, Humility stopping my Revoker from preventing it. Never drew Crypts (couldn't combo anyway)
Game 3 we had 2 minutes and neither had the quick combo. Drew. Gonna be honest, I didn't think I would run into Enchantress.
Round 4 (or 5, gonna mix these opponents up cause I can't remember the order): 2 - 1 Win against Jimmy on Grixis Delver
Game 1: Early Moon, early win.
Bring in Shocks, Bridge, Explosives, can't remember what I took out.
Game 2: He sticks an early Deathrite, has the counters for the Moon, died to slow Deathrite burn from there, drawing not much action.
Game 3: I don't have moon, but have blasts for his early delver. He has no other creatures, but has Therepy + Surgical for the Painters. I get a Recruiter + 2 Power creature on the field (can't remember what) and he wastes my Tomb and Smashed to Smithereens my Great Furnace (ouch) leaving me with no land. I don't draw any lands from there, he draws nothing to stop the 3 power beatdown and dies.
Round 5 (or 4): 2 - 1 against Matt on Mono-red Imperial Painter
Oh god, I had never played or even thought about the mirror before, and I had no idea how to sideboard lol.
Game 1: I'm on the draw and keep a hand of Tomb, Petal, Petal, Magus, Painter, Mountain, Blast(?) thinking a turn 1 blood moon is bretty good. Oppenent goes Mountain -> Grindstone. I proceed to rethink my life (turn 1 Blood Moon not that good anymore lol) and go Painter -> blast the Stone on my turn. Both of us were pretty chagrin, but eventually I managed to combo out in the first game.
Took out all Blood Moons, 1 Bridge. Bring in Koth, Shocks, Mages, and Explosives. Don't bring in 7th blast because I was not about that "naming Blue" mindgames and left in one Bridge because Koth, but didn't want two Bridges in for a single card.
Game 2: Full of agonizing over whether to play Painter and if to name blue. Since he had Pyrokenisis and other more burn on his sideboard, he definitely had the advantage here (my opinion). He kept in the Moons in an attempt to keep me off my white, which I disagree with since I play Moons myself and am used to playing around Moon. Anyway, we both apparently sided out Bridges and I got beat down by Koth. It was pretty grindy.
Game 3: He tries to start the beatdowns but I kept the combo. When I went off, if he had Pyrokenisis for the Painter, I would have been boned since I had nothing after that. I decided to just jam it and see what happened, and luckily it payed off.
Hands down the funnest match of the day and most thought provoking as to what I should do lol.
Round 6: 0 - 2 Loss to Dan on Miricles
Game 1: I feel like I do a bit better this game than Round 1, sticking a Bridge to preempt Angels, but he finds Council's Judgement and beats my face in with a Mentor.
Bring in Shocks, Blast, Bridge, Koth, and Hedge-Mages. Take out Petals (I don't need to be fast is my thinking) and Blood Moons (left in Magus).
Game 2: My Hedge-Mages were pretty baller. At some point there were two Counterbalances and a Top on the field. I play Duergar with two Plateus on the field and he reveals a land (might have been tapped out). In response to the Duergar trigger he taps Top to put on top, and in response I blasted his other Counterbalance the Mage wasn't targeting. Got both balances, which I was pretty happy about. Long game, Dan got Jace out and ult'd me.
I felt I wasn't patient enough and didn't chain Recruiters because I always felt I should get a creature that actually does something, because I didn't want him to get a 3 mana spell on top. I'm pretty sure I need to do the match up a lot more. Dan mentioned his friend also plays Painter and plays the matchup extensively, so that might have helped too lol
Round 7: 2 - 0 win against Max on Miricles
Game 1: Turn 1 -> stone. Turn 2 -> Recruit for Painter. Turn 3 -> Play Painter, blast the counterspell. Turn 4 -> Win. Opponent played a top from a basic island , also got a tundra out, so I auto assume Miricles and side the exact same as last game.
Game 2: Max mulls to five, so I feel pretty confident about that, but my last two Miricles games make me not so. I have no idea what happened though. The game went on for easily > 20 turns with him Swordsing and Terminusing, me dropping Bridge to stop angels and trying to combo, and Max drew 0 Counterbalances. I kinda felt bad so I didn't ask him afterwards in case he was salty, but I can't believe he didn't draw balances with a top out digging and a couple fetches. It was wierd. I comboed him out, though.
Round 8: 0 - 2 Loss to Micheal on D+T
Game 1: Keep on the Play hand of Tomb, Petal, Magus, Monkey, Blast, Mountain, Fetch. Not the best, but a turn 1 moon with anti-counter magic backup? Snap keep. Play moon, pass turn, oppenent plays Aether Vial off of a wasteland. Monkey + Blast aint very good without Painter, which I proceed to not draw in time. The moon slowed down Micheal, but his Vial got him there before I drew into some action. Die to sick beats.
Side out all Petals (sucks against Thalia) and something else. Bring in Shocks, Priest, Explosives. Kept Moons in because it did slow him down.
Game 2: Get beat to crap when Thalia + Vyrn makes Bridge cost 5 mana and I can't dump my hand in time. Not the best, but that's Magic I guess.
Dropped after that since my friends wanted to leave and I lost 3 games.
I brought in Shocks for every game except Enchantress (brought it in against Painter since I had nothing else lol). Main reason they weren't on the main is because I'm used to non-interactive combo decks where they're not useful, like they are against Miricles, D+T, and Delver decks. But if I go back to a tournament I would definitely think about cutting something to get them on the main. I'm loath to remove the two Red Blasts because Painter + Blast is just the nuts, but I always feel I need every other card. Maybe lose Welder #3 and maybe a Revoker? idk...
There's always discussion as to whether Magus is worth it, but having the 5th Moon as a chance to get that Turn 1 or 2 against the decks where it mattered mattered a lot. I liked him, wasn't much of a detriment against decks where he wasn't as useful.
I didn't play any Burn, which is what I wanted to try the Eidolon against, since 4 toughness would mean they would have to actually waste a card on it while it can still act as a blocker. Also no Storm, Shardless, SneakNShow, Lands, etc in the Draw brackets. Next time I go to a tournament think I'll just concede instead of getting shunted into the Draw bracket.
So I know that the one painter deck that did well this weekend at SCG doesn't play anywhere near what we are typically playing. But looking at his list, I did ask the question, why not mox opals? Especially for people who really like welder and are playing 3 or more, opals seem like a reasonable replacement for monkeys. Something like:
4 X great furnace
3 X lotus petal
3 X mox opal
3 X top
2-3 X bridge
4 X grindstone
4 X painter
Couple other artifacts (e.e., Canonist, spellskite, etc)
That's 25-30 artifacts, which seems like plenty to support opals. I goldfished it a little and had several hands where I accelerated turn 1, even dropping moon with great furnace, petal, opal. Yes, there are a couple hands where the opal doesn't turn on immediately. But even with those hands it typically doesn't take long. It also fixes the color issues we sometimes have with blood moon. I would be okay dropping my 1 X plains in this case. Has anyone else ever tried the opals?
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Mox Opal isn't a horrible idea, but there are two draw backs, the first is pretty obvious, you have to achieve metalcraft for it to do anything. From that standpoint it's not as good as Lotus Petal or Monkey at powering out a Turn 1 Bloodmoon. The second draw back is that it's Legendary... this is a much lesser draw back today since the legendary rule change... but it's still a minor draw back.
If you want to test it out, go for it.
There was a time that I wanted to play Mox Diamonds over Lotus Petals because they stick around... but I think to do so our manabase would need to be like 25-27 lands, which seems like it would involve some really significant changes to the deck.
At GP seatac my main loses were to:
Miracles,
Wasteland,
Bricking on lands for 3+ turns.
More non basics is not where we need to be Imo. While I can support more stable fast mana and not straight card disadvantage I think this would really need to be tested.
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So I also lost to wasteland decks at SeaTac, which is exactly why I would propose this change. You might end up running 2 fewer basic lands but you get +3 stable, unwasteable mana sources that tap for all colors. I think that's worth it. I'm going to start testing it online. The few games that I have tested I really like it. It plays particularly well with welder shenanigans, which I know everyone here loves.
This may be off topic. Has anyone tried cursed scroll as an alternate win-con or repetitive creature removal in place of firebolts? With talks about adding Mox Opal requiring more artifacts, that card came to mind. Only downside is 3 mana per activation might be a bit much in the early stage of the game and it takes awhile to kill opponent.
Looking for Chinese cards to complete my legacy decks....hit me up!!!
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