[Deck] Imperial Painter

[spector14]

Guys, we must talk aobut "Stoneforge Package" in sideboard, again!! It's the true progress for deck!!!

[phoenix4]

Guys, we must talk aobut "Stoneforge Package" in sideboard, again!! It's the true progress for deck!!!

Isn't it a little redundant in the deck? :P

[spector14]

Isn't it a little redundant in the deck? :P

ahah! maybe, but if you want to improve certain MU using a "plan B", I would try to make it a little more solid!


I really like the idea of ​​"Jack" (sword B / W), but it's still a 1x! why not try to fix the side?
maybe like this:

1- sword b / w
2/3-Stoneforge Mystic
1- Batterskull

[NathanS2k]

I actually thought about adding 2 Stoneforge, 1 Batterskull, 1 Jitte in place of the 4 Firebolt. Think that might be a better plan B and better against Burn?

[Ish]

I actually thought about adding 2 Stoneforge, 1 Batterskull, 1 Jitte in place of the 4 Firebolt. Think that might be a better plan B and better against Burn?

3 SFM, Bskull and Jitte have been awesome in my board.

HOWEVER. Against burn it's not so great. They board in so much artifact hate G2 that they just zap it. Going for a fast combo is just better.

I'm going to try a 1 of CoP Red. Hell we can always me painter red and never take damage from anything


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[NathanS2k]

Going for the fast combo is always ideal but their artifact hate can also stops it. Most of their cards are like 1 for 1, except maybe Smash to Smithereens that can also deals 3 damage. So cards like SFM can be card advantage or at least be a chump blocker when needed.

[Ish]

Going for the fast combo is always ideal but their artifact hate can also stops it. Most of their cards are like 1 for 1, except maybe Smash to Smithereens that can also deals 3 damage. So cards like SFM can be card advantage or at least be a chump blocker when needed.

Well I'm speaking from experience and not theory. So I'm pretty confident here that if burn is your concern SFM package isn't going to help much. It's normally a turn 3 at best BSkull and not swinging till turn 4. That's a lot of turns to have bolts being thrown at your face.

SFM shines in the typical fair matchups... Bug, rug, DnT, and batter skull is great vs miracles.

CoP or leyline of sanctity are your go to cards for burn. Otherwise your plan is just to remove moons, bring in any other from the side and cross your fingers.


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[NathanS2k]

^Well, I would normally fetch for Jitte instead of Batterskull. It's a lot easier to cast and easier to equip. Batterskull can get stuck in my hand a lot of times. Against those fair match up as you mentioned, I would rather keep in my 4 Blood Moons...except DnT and maybe Miracles (on the draw).

[drude1]

^Well, I would normally fetch for Jitte instead of Batterskull. It's a lot easier to cast and easier to equip. Batterskull can get stuck in my hand a lot of times. Against those fair match up as you mentioned, I would rather keep in my 4 Blood Moons...except DnT and maybe Miracles (on the draw).

If I were to play a piece of equipment for the burn matchup it would either be jitte or the r/w sword, as it gains life and protects the equipped creature. Batterskull is just too slow for the reasons above. Having said that, I also agree that equipment is crap against burn. If you are really worried about the MU, play leylines or CoP red or something like that. I personally like leylines as they are good against multiple MUs.
I have played with different stoneforge packages from time to time, and just don't love them. The only way I would play it is in an almost total transitional SB with chalice and trinisphere or some other prison type package.


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[jandax]

Just dodge other red decks, and life is pretty good. Don't lose your center and play bad cards to compensate for something that may not even be a problem. If you literally play against burn all the time then I would stick with CoP:R, through personal experience it has been worth it.

[drude1]

^Well, I would normally fetch for Jitte instead of Batterskull. It's a lot easier to cast and easier to equip. Batterskull can get stuck in my hand a lot of times. Against those fair match up as you mentioned, I would rather keep in my 4 Blood Moons...except DnT and maybe Miracles (on the draw).

If I were to play a piece of equipment for the burn matchup it would either be jitte or the r/w sword, as it gains life and protects the equipped creature. Batterskull is just too slow for the reasons above. Having said that, I also agree that equipment is crap against burn. If you are really worried about the MU, play leylines or CoP red or something like that. I personally like leylines as they are good against multiple MUs.
I have played with different stoneforge packages from time to time, and just don't love them. The only way I would play it is in an almost total transitional SB with chalice and trinisphere or some other prison type package.


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[pinkfrosting]

If you're going to a small tournament or a meta where you're absolutely sure you'll face multiple burn decks, you can make room for 4 leylines in the board. Cut appropriately, you know what other decks will be there too if you play there a lot so you know what to cut.

Leyline is also not bad against hymn builds of Shardless BUG. It is worth the potential dead draws in that matchup and burn, but really no others.

A way you can make Leyline a safer play is to cut 2 simians for 2 more petals. You lose the surprise factor of REB + blast and open up a little vulnerability to counterspells, but really people aren't going to counter/stifle your petal very often. You also get more welder targets.

On another note, I've been testing a slightly altered version of Jack's build lately with a lot of success. I've cut Jaya and both bridges from the main for 2 more lotus petals for 7 fast mana total, and using the third slot for an extra magus (2 total). I like Jaya a lot, she is the ultimate tutor target on top of a painter, but at 3cmc she is dead in a lot of matchups in the current meta. This build is just mean in terms of consistently jamming blood moon effects turn 1 and 2. It goes all out on winning game one with a surprise blood moon or using the additional fast mana to get a turn 2 combo. The extra fast mana also means you can protect painter with a blast as early as turn 2 in most games. It's very high risk high reward, but if you lose game one you can revert to the safe control build for game 2 easily.

The biggest weakness of the build is it can't win game one against show and tell. Painter generally has a very hard time doing this anyway without quickly establishing welder + bridge lock, which it can't consistently do with only 2 bridges and 2 tutors. Accepting this and knowing that you can significantly increase your odds game 2, this build is very aggressive in every other matchup and has worked extremely well for me. I play in the Seattle area (pretty big MTG community out here) against a lot of T1 decks, so maybe that helps turn on blood moon more often. Free artifacts also make welder very happy.

[Moomba]

Sounds almost exactly like the build I've been trying for a few tournaments lol

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=72704

It's been doing fine for me too but trying another new build atm, but not afraid to go back to this one again. When I get home I'll edit this with a certain play I did against an Omni Tell match up.

My board state that matters is 4 mana available Welder Grindstone and Sensei's. I've already countered a Force and 1 Show and Tell already. He Intuitions getting 3 Show and Tell and taps his remaining 3 to cast it. I have nothing of relevance in my hand. So I spin top seeing Blood Moon, Magus and a land. So I place the 2 red cards on top and grind myself getting the double moons and repeating into the land and a Lotus Petal. Activate top blind to rip a REB and weld in the Petal to counter the Show and Tell leaving him with nothing. Combo'd him out a few turns later Tormod's Crypting the Emrakul trigger.

[Calculoso]

This might be a bit too tuned for modo tournament practice room but I am planning on trying a MD trinisphere. With the high density of burn & combo (omni-tell & elves) I think the 3sphere can do some serious work. It is the most consistent way to win in my SB games so far. Only thing is what to cut for it. Was thinking about moving Jaya to the SB since I almost never search for her. Generally if you are untapping with her and a painter on board for multiple turns, you are probably winning anyways.

Anyone tried this? Might make this change for GPT Boston today. MD is same as Kap'ns otherwise.

[pinkfrosting]

Jaya in the main is great for dealing with troublesome obstacles that can't be targeted by blasts like emrakul and chalice for 1. It's also just a wincon in a bridge lock situation or against blue decks. However, game 1 is usually always weighted in our favor, especially if your opponent doesn't know what you're on. I always side Jaya in game 2 but I have started to like her less and less game 1, she's usually just dead in my hand, so I've moved her to the sideboard as well. At cmc3, 2r, and a full turn to take advantage of her ability she's just too slow game 1 when we're trying to surprise our opponent with a blood moon or combo.

[spector14]

Hi guys! this is my situation:

In a few weeks there will be a major tournament in Italy (expected at least 300 people) and I would like to bring R / W Painter, the list is the one who inspired me to Jack in which he finished in the top 8 last month! The expected metagame will be full of BGX (jund, Delver bug, bug control), a lot of miracle and as a combo there should be a good number of elves and ANT!

regarding the BGX we are already well in the main, however with regard miracle, ant and elves are a bit worried!

My ideas are:

MD

-1 Bridge +1 Koth of the Hammer (nice against miracle)

sb

-1 bridge + 1 Peacekeeper (nice against ETW and elves)

-1 trini +1 thorn of amethyst (about me, it's better against ant because we have more chance to play it in first turn than Trinisphere)

or there is always the crazy idea that tickles me in the side: Stoneforge pack that would play like this: 2 Stoneforge Mystic 1 Batterskull 1 sword B / W
removing from the side: 3 firebolt and the second thorn of amethyst

[Ish]

Hi guys! this is my situation:

In a few weeks there will be a major tournament in Italy (expected at least 300 people) and I would like to bring R / W Painter, the list is the one who inspired me to Jack in which he finished in the top 8 last month! The expected metagame will be full of BGX (jund, Delver bug, bug control), a lot of miracle and as a combo there should be a good number of elves and ANT!

regarding the BGX we are already well in the main, however with regard miracle, ant and elves are a bit worried!

My ideas are:

MD

-1 Bridge +1 Koth of the Hammer (nice against miracle)

sb

-1 bridge + 1 Peacekeeper (nice against ETW and elves)

-1 trini +1 thorn of amethyst (about me, it's better against ant because we have more chance to play it in first turn than Trinisphere)

or there is always the crazy idea that tickles me in the side: Stoneforge pack that would play like this: 2 Stoneforge Mystic 1 Batterskull 1 sword B / W
removing from the side: 3 firebolt and the second thorn of amethyst

All of that is reasonable and has been tried tested and proven to work. Really depends on what you run into. I feel like we want 20 cards in a 15 card slot... So you just have to choose based on what matchups your expecting. You seem to have a good handle on that and a sound theory.


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[cab0747]

Oh man... So I said I was going to jam this deck at least once each week before GPNJ. That hasn't happened.

Whenever I started streaming, I did it so I could watch my matches, find misplays, and correct my mistakes. It turned out that people don't mind watching painter and those that did tune in to the stream were happy to point out any mistakes I made. I did play it tonight (after not playing it for probably a month) and streamed/recorded my last game against Deathblade. My play was fine in G1 and G2, but could still be improved. However, in game 3, I did my very best to throw away the game and the match.

If you would like, you can watch it here: http://www.twitch.tv/iamgnarles/b/571561683

As I had said above, I don't think I played poorly in game 1 or 2. The first egregious misplay happens at 36:10 : I drop a moon and do not play out my second city of traitors. Since I have one on the field, it is a way to sneak 2 into play without saccing the first. The next (which I am kind of embarrassed about) comes around 39:00: Our opponent is Blood Moon locked, but has a Stoneforge Mystic, Vendillion Clique, and a Batterskull out. I have a Koth at 5 loyalty and 4 mountains in play. Instead of getting the emblem, being able to kill Batterskull and clear the board the following turn (with my opponent moon locked), I decide to tick up Koth. My opponent kills Koth the following turn. However, even though we should have lost, I was able to find a Painter's Servant in the top 3 and win before I was beat into the ground.

Big thanks to Kapn, my buddy Zach, and a few other viewers (if any of you are on the source, let me know) for joining the stream and talking through some of the options and plays available. Again, doing this will help me get better and that was the goal of streaming.

Thanks again, everyone :)

[spector14]

All of that is reasonable and has been tried tested and proven to work. Really depends on what you run into. I feel like we want 20 cards in a 15 card slot... So you just have to choose based on what matchups your expecting. You seem to have a good handle on that and a sound theory.


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Thanks for the answer!!
The thing that I would like to understand is whether mystic package can replace 3 firebolts or if these removals are essential!

[jandax]

First, think about what each of those three cards are doing. Firebolt is an answer to most creatures seen in the format, which also gains card advantage via flashback. SMF answers a completely different problem, the opposite problem actually. It comes in against control decks as an alternative win condition. I wouldn't just find three cards to cut, and I also wouldn't just play a few different cards without having a great reason to change a deck/SB that is well tuned. In order to make it work properly you need to identify the problem you're having with the deck, and address it with changes to play style, increase your knowledge of troublesome matchups, and playing the deck regularly for practice. When you have those three steps down pat, and you know that there is a specific problem that needs addressing, then should you go about making changes. It's about having patience and diligence inside and out of the match. Imperial Painter is a deck full of must-deal-with cards, one of its biggest strengths. Don't forget your fundamentals!