In my opinion Needle is better against decks with lot's of removal for creatures (Miracles, UWR Blade-Decks and post board SneakShow with Pyroclasm, although I'm not sure if they board it in against us). Against DnT I would prefer Revoker, but the DnT list I played against, had 4 Ghost Quarters and Leonin Arbiters in addition to the rest of mana denial strategy. So I wasn't sure, maybe at some point I would like to name a Land with Needle.
Against Lands I usually name Thespian Stage, because post board they have removal against Moon and Bridge, so I have another way to interrupt their combo.
I like the split of one Needle and one Revoker (never really needed a second Revoker and virtually you have more Revokers with Recruiter anyway. With Goblin Welder there is another option to rename a Revoker).
As uroborian said, keep discussion of NO painter to the other thread.
For imperial painter 1 uba mask in the sideboard is something I've pondered about for a while, basically for the reasons that uroborian mentioned.
When you can get double welder going there is no greater thing in magic.
there's a whole lot of rules you need to be wary/knowledgeble about with Uba mask. I learned a lot real quick playing it. But if you do you will most likely get props from anyone watching your match if you play it.
So, Uba Mask was somewhat intriguing to me so I tested it against Omni-Tell a bunch. Unfortunately, it was almost worthless. The only cards it shuts off are the cantrips. They can still play Dig Through time, Intuition, and Cunning Wish to full effect. I played several games where I dropped the mask with the show and tell and the opponent just went off around it with the above cards. Sorry, I just didn't find it very useful.
The only full-proof strategy that I have found so far is canonist. If we drop canonist in with the show and tell we can then blast the omniscience without them being able to respond. You just have to hope that they aren't dropping Emrakul directly with the show and tell.
Non strategy related question here:
For you guys playing the W/R version of this deck (I assume most of you)... what version of Plateau do you guys run and which is the preferred one? This dual land is kind of unique in that it has two very different sets of art - the Drew Tucker art on the Alpha, Beta, and Unlimited versions and the Cornelius Brudi art on the Revised and FBB versions.
So which Plateaus do you play and which do you think are the best option regardless of cost? I personally think the Brudi artwork is probably better, and the best version of this is the FBB dual because it's black bordered and the color is richer than the Revised version. Because of the art difference, I might actually consider the FBB Plateau superior to the Alpha/Beta Plateau.
Okay; IMO best art is Noah Bradleys from Vintage Masters :P but yes in paper i prefer the FBB ones above all; i have the 3rd edition and do think the artwork beats the first running. To me the first one looks like something badlands should've been and not plateau. (The need to print those damned duals that have the online art! so good)
So no one has any tech that works? I'm about 73% win rate with my current list for those who care or for those with deferent technique. Interested to listen to others style and lists.
Strawberry Shortcake
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...erry-Shortcake
What a brainstorm do? Draw card and activate on draw effects fix hand, removing woods
#FreeNedleeds
I'm pretty positive after board using canonist and blasts and jaya against Omnitell. Running 3 e-tutor post board, very similar to Jack's list. I play two Canonist SB, instead of one. Not running Sphere of Law.
I split the finals of our local spring classic playing shortcake.
Beat 2 shard less, DnT, 2 miracles, infect and something else. Lost to TES in close games in round 2 and DnT in the finals when we played it out. Overall I was happy with the majority but disappointed with some of my sideboard slots.
Main: stock list with 1 deretti which was awesome. I drew him lots and he was never bad. Got me out of spots welder wouldn't have. Discard and elect not to draw to hide behind bridge.
Side:
2 canonist
2 containment priest
1 koth
1 ratchet bomb
1 rest in peace
1 pithing needle
1 Trinisphere
1 viashino heretic
2 sudden shock
1 sudden demise
1 X
Overall I wish I had more koth and played more burn of sorts. Sudden shock was quite good against DnT and infect. Sudden impact was good for 2-3 for ones against DnT elves or Bob, DRS, etc. Ratchet bomb was nice against miracles but could have easily been explosives. Pithing needle was good and I am going to test it more. I really like heretic he is like a better jaya in lots of places and is a must answer. With the R2 casting cost you can run him out early too.
Will add more later.
1. The other two cards were an ensnaring bridge and hedge mage.
2. I only played 2 top for the deretti slot. Creature base with 3 welders 1 magus 1 jaya.
Also other match up was a on camera painter mirror which I 2-0
You are playing both hedge Mage and heretic? Seems redundant. I've gone back and forth a little between the two, but with Omnitell gaining popularity in sticking with hedge Mage.
Speaking of omnitell, I've decided to split my alt win cons between one Koth and one processor. Processor seems particularly good against show and tell, as even if they drop Emrakul you drop processor on 16+ and they have to block. Also decent against miracles and other very controlling MUs.
I switched out magus for revoker in the main but I'm still not convinced. Revoker is just too easy to get rid of. I still like chandra as my one of planeswalker in the main. Her utility is just too good. Im also waffling on a 2/3 split between top and welder. Anyone have a great argument for one bs the other? I'm on the 3 recruiter train with Jaya and a Canonist main.
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Thanks. Sorry I just wrote what somewhat quickly. You are correct. I would have been thinking of the ability to plus him without the requirements of discarding.
I have really been on the fence about deretti but he does do one thing. He advances our combo. He is really deadly with an active welder I play as well.
I have also been impressed with viashino heretic, he is strong in many matchups with equipment, multiple equipment, needle, and revokers. Even top, especially in response to shuffle effects.
I played yesterday with RW painter in a trial (52 participants). It went horribly. I ended 2-4.
R1 Shardless BUG 2-1
Blood Moon does what it does best.
R2 Elves 1-2
G1 fast combo for me. G2 was a very fun game with lots of interaction, but a wirewood & sage spell doom for me. G3 I'm stuck on 2 mana and he comboes T4.
R3 Death & Taxes 1-2
G1 Blood Moon T1 for the win. G2 he has double ORing for both my Painters, Plow for Magus, Needle for stone and wastelands & Ports to put the pressure on my manabase. G3 I'm again stuck on 2 land with a hand full of 3drops.
R4 Omnitell 1-2
G1 I assemble the combo, but pass the turn with 3 mana open (thinking Emrakul is in his list). On his turn he goes Show & Tell, Omniscience, Wish, enter the Infinite, Wish, Research, Enter, Lab Maniac, Ponder. You see where I dropped the ball? I was to confused to see it the moment self. G2 T1 Painter + stone. G3 again stuck on 2 mana (2 Mountains) and he comboes T4.
R5 Dark Maverick 1-2
G1 T2 Blood Moon is enough. G2 I can't find a stone or Tutor in time despite Top and several shuffles. G3 begins good with a T2 Blood Moon, but unfortunately he has the decay. The following turns Needle on stone, double Pridemage and tripple Knight are more then enough to bash in my head.
R6 is a no show. 2-0
A fun day, but dissapointing results.
Over the last few pages there has been an underlying theme: what to do about Omni tell. For the most part what I have gathered over the years of discussion on this is: there is no correct answer, but you should have a very precise plan on what your going to do.
1. Death and taxes route of hate bears (canonist, Jaya, containment priest, magus, painter). Distrupt and beat down. Typically you cannot be aggressive here. This means you ALWAYS represent at least one blast. Never tap out. Board out your grindstone and some blood moons.
2. Three card combo. This means crypt or RIP. Light on bears and heavy on control.
3. Koth of the hammer. This is somewhat a blend of the two. No need for grindstone and some blood moons. Keep your bridges, quite often omni will just 15/15 you. Play slow.
For the most part I have had success with all 3 routes, often having 2/3 options open to you during most games. Overall omni will tend to sculpt nay unstoppable hands over the course of a few turns. Fortunately are one of the few decks that actually runs 7-8 blast effects. Save your blasts for their cards and always represent at least one blast for our cards. If they count it that's fine, find your next route to victory.
My personal preference is the bear plan. I don't like the RIP method overall.
I would generally agree with the hate bear strategy. Unfortunately, the only true hate bears for this deck would be canonist, Thalia, Gaddock Teeg (which we can't play) and to some degree spirit of the labyrinth. Containment priest, Jaya and magus have some utility and deliver some beats but are mediocre. Like I stated previously, canonist plus a blast is by far our best option.
Also, after testing the MU a lot I have to agree with Mapson that we could almost just take the grindstones out and plan on beating them down. The likelihood of getting the combo plus grave hate out is unlikely. However, if you have 2 welders out remember you can combo out with tormods crypt by targeting yourself first and then target them and flip in crypt. They will have to draw first and will therefore lose first to an empty library. This assumes you have at least 6 mana.
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Sry drude, but I honestly don't get what you refer to with the two welders. Can't you just win directly by activating crypt after the Eldrazi triggers are put on the stack or what am I missing?
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