[Deck] Imperial Painter

[Will_L]

Blue also lets you play Llawan squid queen as sideboard tech

Which you can fetch up with Recruiter and lock out fishies or any creatures with a Painter in play

[Milo687]

I have been experimenting with running a 1 of rest in peace mainboard for the eldrazi/graveyard match ups with a lot of success. Has anyone else been using anything for game 1 against eldrazi decks?

[Will_L]

Seems like a good idea

It fits the bill of "slam a hate permanent that locks out or beats our opponent"

I am on mono red and my g1 plan against Emrakul decks is get out Bridge and beat em down with 1/3s and three mana 1/1s

[Mapson]

I have been experimenting with running a 1 of rest in peace mainboard for the eldrazi/graveyard match ups with a lot of success. Has anyone else been using anything for game 1 against eldrazi decks?

Doesn't seem necessary. Sneak and Show folds game one to a resolved bridge and I don't think 12 post is a big enough prescence to justify maindeck hate that makes our own welders not as good.

[Mapson]

I have been experimenting with running a 1 of rest in peace mainboard for the eldrazi/graveyard match ups with a lot of success. Has anyone else been using anything for game 1 against eldrazi decks?

Doesn't seem necessary. Sneak and Show folds game one to a resolved bridge and I don't think 12 post is a big enough presence to justify maindeck hate that makes our own welders not as good.

[GoblinZ]

From GP kyoto:

OmniTell and Delver decks are among the most popular at the top tables, but mixed in are many others including Miracles, Infect, Death and Taxes, and Elves. Even 9-0 player Ryuichi Shirakihara ran the tables with Charbelcher today.

Looks like we need to ensure our UR delver matchup and omni matchup is better if we want to bring down a big tourney.

I am considering going back to imperial painter recently, and I would very probably still stick to mono-red because I used to have a lot of success with it in my local store.

However I am also very busy these few days so I cannot put my thought into test.

But here is something I am thinking:

May add martyr of ashes mainboard.

Maybe will leave all bridges in sideboard, it is not efficient against omnitel and pyromancer tokens.

Maybe play relic of progenitus mainboard, but still not sure of this.

[mcbain]

I am considering going back to imperial painter recently, and I would very probably still stick to mono-red because I used to have a lot of success with it in my local store.

However I am also very busy these few days so I cannot put my thought into test.

But here is something I am thinking:

May add martyr of ashes mainboard.

Maybe will leave all bridges in sideboard, it is not efficient against omnitel and pyromancer tokens.

Maybe play relic of progenitus mainboard, but still not sure of this.

Hi goblinz, what you are referring to is painter circa 2012. Mono red with bridges in the board, lightning bolts in the main.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=58700

Honestly this is a good place to start as a new painter player. I payed this build back then and started bringing in bridges into the main along with Jandax and never looked back. There are literally so many decks that are just stone cold to a bridge game one.

Update: after the GP and scg results it seems utterly irresponsible to not have a better omni plan, both main and side. We are at an advantage being already situated with 6-8 blasts. The eldrazi must be dealt with though, I'd be more inclined to cut welders and run RIP's rather than adding crypts. While the crypt is nice for eldrazi RIP hoses tarmogoyf, DRS, delve, dredge, among others with the effort.

[LeoCop 90]

I think the best answers to omnitell in shortcake are :
-play 8 blasts between main and side
-build a sideboard with more hatebears (thalia/canonist/spirit of the labyrinth)
-possibly play a maindeck canonist like jack was doing a while ago
-maybe add rip/helm in sideboard so after board you are still playing a 2 card combo

between blasts hatebears and bridges we should be ok anyway.
Fun story : against an omnitell opponent i had rest in peace in play and he knew i had helm of obedience in hand. Obviously he can't show and tell in this situation or he loses on the spot. I draw a simian spirit guide so i decide to tap out for something irrelevant, he casts show and tell, i show helm and kill him exiling my spirit guide XD

[GoblinZ]

Hi goblinz, what you are referring to is painter circa 2012. Mono red with bridges in the board, lightning bolts in the main.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=58700

Honestly this is a good place to start as a new painter player. I payed this build back then and started bringing in bridges into the main along with Jandax and never looked back. There are literally so many decks that are just stone cold to a bridge game one.

Update: after the GP and scg results it seems utterly irresponsible to not have a better omni plan, both main and side. We are at an advantage being already situated with 6-8 blasts. The eldrazi must be dealt with though, I'd be more inclined to cut welders and run RIP's rather than adding crypts. While the crypt is nice for eldrazi RIP hoses tarmogoyf, DRS, delve, dredge, among others with the effort.

I know his list, I played a very similar as his since 2011. And unlike others I am not that happy with maindeck bridge except in a era when there were tons of sneak show. I find I don't need rely on bridges in most match-up where bridges are considered as great or something, for example dnt because I have more removals and sweepers to deal their fragile creatures.

About RIP, that is why I consider relic in the main in terms of mono red now. Actually I always play relic in my build, I board it against graveyard centered decks and also thresh or sneakshow. The con is that it may be slow against dredge or reanimator some times but still have it job done in more cases. Now it hoses dig and can help you win omnitel game one with combo, at worst it is cycling. And the other thing is that relic does not totally contradict to your welder.

[drude1]

I used to play a one-of tormods crypt a year or so ago when show and tell was super popular. But as Mapson pointed out, bridge hoses them just as well and then you can just win with Jaya. Blood moon is so good against 12 post that I've never really had trouble with that deck. The only super troublesome eldrazi deck is Omnitell as they can get around a bridge easily with cunning wish into bounce. In general though, eldrazi decks are why Jaya will always have a home in the main. If you played the shortcake version of the deck you could consider just running one copy of bridge to tutor for. Also realize that, in most cases, bridge hoses dredge as well if you can get your hand size down fast enough. The biggest benefit of bridge right now is against goyf and true-name nemesis, which are both seeing play a good amount. I would have a hard time cutting them.
As for relic in the main, it does cantrip but you can only really use it once. The benefit of crypt is that, with a welder, you can keep nuking the opponent's graveyard over and over. RiP of course is a problem as a nombo with welder. Right now I'm running a crypt and a containment priest in my board. I consider running a second containment priest but just can't find the room. And it also doesn't interact that well with our welders.


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[Kap'n Cook]

Leo actually beat me to the punch on what I've been tinkering with to gain the small percentage points in the current meta and taking into account recent results.

This is what I've been playing. It's not really that groundbreaking, as it is more just a rejiggering of the 75 based on what I expect to see:

Shortcake:

7 Sol
5 Fetch
4 Mountain
2 'Teau
1 Furnace

4 Recruiter
4 Painter
3 Welder
2 Simian
1 Magus
1 Jaya
1 Revoker
1 Canonist

4 Stone
4 Moon
2 Top
2 Bridge
3 Petal

2 Tutor
7 Blast

Side:
4 Firebolt
1 tutor
1 reb
2 koth
1 crypt
1 rip
1 thorn
1 3 sphere
1 hedge mage
1 bridge
1 explosives



Obviously the only differences is moving the EE to the side like the ratchet bomb of old. I love its utility, but having 6 ways to find canonist game 1 with the expected rise of omnitell seems like its better. I also dropped the sphere of law since the 8th reb will come in so much. If I face burn I guess I'll just hope i can overload like the days of old. We'll see how this goes.

[mcbain]

This is essentially the list I have built at the moment as well (-1 fire bolt in sb). I intend to test against URb delver and omni and see how things pan out.

The URb delver and omni create two different tensions for the deck, tempo burn vs control. When played well the URb delver is similar to cruise delver which painter had issues with. Largely because it's hard to combo through a burn player. Although their mana base is weaker to bloodmoon.

Omni puts us into the hard control role, theoretically we can just counter everything they do but the game can be very fragile at times, often one misstep and your up against double counter show and tell.

I do agree that canonist in the main is a good place to start against omni, it's even good against other stuff to. I have played non goblin welder lists before with success and will look to test a RIP version.

[Kap'n Cook]

Well first small run-through was a success. There was obviously some luck along the way, but if you're always lucky is it even luck at that point anymore lol?

I was able to 4-0 last nights daily against post, miracles, bahra on taxcake,and digblade. It wasn't really due to the changes, but post board it felt like I always had multiple blasts at the ready, aka the 8 felt really nice. Too bad I can't really tell if I ever drew the 8th but considering that pretty much everyone is blue it's a good start.

Other random games I beat another miracles and lost to sneak. I was also able to 2-0 two different ant players in other matches by dropping canonist game 1, which I hope helps vs omni (haven't played yet) the only other switch I'm looking at is moving either the thorn or 3sphere to a second canonist, although I am concerned about changing the small percentages against some decks with opening hands like sol+thorn or times where thorn or sphere are the only cards you'd be able to tutor for and drop the next turn.

[RingoDeathStarr]

If Omnitell is the concern, I certainly wouldn't cut a Trinisphere as it is insane against them, but I definitely like the idea of having more than 1 Canonist in the 75, and probably more than 2. I don't really like cutting Thorn though because E-Tutor off of Lotus Petal into t2 thorn is pretty relevant, and we don't always get to have 2-3 mana on turn 1 and 3 mana on turn 2.

EDIT: Also, Canonist is a bad play to rely on for turn 1, or even turn 2, just because access to white mana in particular is far from a guarantee.

[mcbain]

If Omnitell is the concern, I certainly wouldn't cut a Trinisphere as it is insane against them, but I definitely like the idea of having more than 1 Canonist in the 75, and probably more than 2. I don't really like cutting Thorn though because E-Tutor off of Lotus Petal into t2 thorn is pretty relevant, and we don't always get to have 2-3 mana on turn 1 and 3 mana on turn 2.

EDIT: Also, Canonist is a bad play to rely on for turn 1, or even turn 2, just because access to white mana in particular is far from a guarantee.

Honestly 3 sphere does not feel like where I want to be against omni. My counters that literally destroy them cost 1 Mana, why make them cost 3? thorn, sure that's workable.

Canonist is a fine turn one or two play when you have 7 white lands and 3 lotus.

And yes, as jack iluded to, game one canonist against ANT is pretty good.

[drude1]

Ha. I've never stopped playing canonist main. Let me just also say that sequencing it so that your opponent can't play a spell without you going off in response with canonist on board has won me multiple games. I have a hard time cutting sphere online because there is still enough burn to make it worth while. It is also very relevant against young pyromancer strategies.
I'm still on 3 leylines SB and am having to consider cutting those for another canonist, and probably another piece of grave hate and tax spell like 3sphere. They are just so good against ANT that I struggle with that decision. Between thorn and 3sphere, which do most people find most helpful. I would lean toward the thorn as it is easier to drop on turn 1 and has less effect on us.
Also, has anyone thought about 1-2 Lodestone Golem or is he just too slow?

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[mcbain]

I think golem is asking to much, particularly when he dies to swords and bolt among other things after you have sunk 4 mana into him.

So with one canonist main my side looks like:
3 Firebolt
1 tutor
1 reb
2 koth
1 canonist
1 rip
1 thorn
1 3 sphere
1 hedge mage
1 bridge
1 explosives
1 sphere of law

I'm still looking to test sphere against all the pyromancer decks to see if it is good enough or if it should just be another fire bolt.

On another note I've had a lot of success with sudden shock.

[Stevestamopz]

I was able to 4-0 last nights daily against post, miracles, bahra on taxcake,and digblade.

Sorry for just hijacking the thread, but Taxcake is 100x better than the other names that have been thrown around for R/W DnT.

[jandax]

Sorry for assisting in the hijack, but it's totally true. taxcake>>>>>shortcake

[Kap'n Cook]

Maybe as a name for red white death and taxes. But no way in hell is the name better than strawberry shortcake for our weird little pile of shitty cards. Plus it's a little too late now, it stuck :) Just my biased two cents haha.