This link is just to the card "Draco", which I'm pretty sure isn't our savior to the Omnitell issue, unless of course you are suggesting we put a copy in our deck in hopes that they can't "release the ants" us to death. That would be the least of our worries.Originally Posted by mcbain
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Last edited by drude1; 04-27-2015 at 03:45 PM.
Response to release the ants... e tutor, draco.
Although it's 100% magic Christmas land, I would love to see the look on their face.
At most you'll cheese one game; maybe that's enough but I don't think its worth doing. Still fun to watch them squirm for losing the clash.
I'll probably be playing a tournament next month on the 16th, but I'm a little stuck on my sideboard. I'm running mono red:
4 Recruiter
4 Painter servant
4 SSG
3 Welder
2 Magus
2 Revoker
1 Jaya
1 Skite
4 Grindstone
4 Moon
4 Pyro
3 Top
2 Bridge
2 REB
4 Tomb
4 City
3 Foothills
3 Furnace
6 Mountain
That's the MD. The sb atm is something like:
3 Clasm
2 Koth
2 Bridge
1 REB
1 Vandal
1 Heretic
And that's about as far as I got. Should Clasm just be Sudden Demise now? I'm not too familiar with the meta there. The first time I went it was pretty diverse, the last time there were about 4 DnT decks (including myself).
3-4 thorns are required in mono red for combo
I'm about 95% certain there will be almost no combo there. When I played the last time the breakdown was something like:
4 DnT
1 goblins
1 Tezzerator
1 Ur power artifact+grim monolith+emrakul deck
1 infect
2 miracles
1 Merfolk
1 TES
1 BG Loam Pox
The 2 combo decks got knocked out almost immediately. If all else fails and I need some slots still I'll throw 3 Thorn in.
Perhaps include 1 sudden shock? Helps versus Dnt, infect, goblin(stompy) and possibly against a bad storm player. And you need something for graveyards so maybe relic over some crypts.
If your gearing specifically for death and taxes then additional artifact removal is good (viashino heretic), sweepers (martyr of ashes, rolling earthquake, sudden demise), and repeatable damage (chandra Pyro master ) are all effective. Death and taxes can be a very hard matchup if the opponent knows what to do, luckily there are a good number of bad players.
So looking at Shouta's list, along with the maindeck Cannonist is RIP + helm sideboard the way to go to combat Omnishow running around? Bricking pre-Omni Dig Through Time, letting us win faster (since we can't ever permanently lock them), and dodging creature removal that they have in the wishboard.
The problem with trying to combo them at all is that while we are trying to assemble a 2 card combo with, at best, 2-3 copies of RiP and one copy of helm with 2-3 tutors to put it all together, they are assembling a combo with 4 copies of each (even 5-6 copies considering they can just S&T Emrakul directly) using the 16 cantrips and 4 Digs. I'm not saying RiP is terrible as it does shut off their Digs pre Omniscience but it certainly doesn't stop their combo. I would say trying to beat them down with dorks and maybe Koth is our best bet. We now
just also have to be careful to not get our board cleared by a pyroclasm.
Don't get me wrong, you can certainly try it. I just think we've all tried the RiP/Helm combo at some point and it just never works. If you really want to do it, I would almost say go for a transformational combo with 3-4 copies of RiP and 2-3 copies of helm and see if that is easier. I used to run 4 painters, 4 grindstones and 4 e.tutors in my dredge deck SB and that actually worked quite well as your opponent then sides in dead hate cards against you. Maybe this SB:
4 x RiP
2 x helm
1 x e.tutor
1 x hedge mage
1 x 3sphere or sphere of resistance
3 x burn spell
1 x bridge
1 x sphere of law
1 x blast
This would give you good MUs against dredge, goyf/deathrite decks, and make did through time bad. It's just quite a commitment.
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I played about 10 games against omni last night.
Crypt main.
Canonist main.
7 blasts and 8th in board.
Overall it still felt very ropey. You essentially have to leave/represent 2-3 blasts at all times past the first few turns which dramatically impairs our tempo and game plan.
We are not the beat down.
With the new OmniTell lacking enter the infinite it is not the end of the world after omni enters play, hedge mage is not totally awful to show in. Although he typically is.
Holding bridge for the show and tell didn't feel the same as when you do it against sneak and show, it felt better to play it out. Often they won't counter because they really really need to resolve their show and tell (same goes for koth).
Spheres don't seem good either. Really what happens is we can't apply pressure, they make land drops, and then we lose.
One thing that I have been contemplating for a while is cutting welders in favour of 3 rest in peace main deck. Many painter decks of yester year did not run welders.
While good, shutting off delve spells, snap caster, loam, dredge, reanimate, and punishing fires as well as the stupid eldrazi in 12 post and omni the role rest in peace could play is not in sigificant.
At this moment I am still on the fence. As I will be attending SCG portland I am looking for suggestions.
I am not going to play helm.
I think at some point you have to say a bad matchup is bad, and not screw your deck up too much over it. Omnitell is a bad matchup, and as far as I can tell, our best strategy against it that doesn't mess everything else up is to go with Canonist and 8th REB effect, and otherwise not sweat it too much. The best decks against Omnitell are all weak to us for the most part (aside from Reanimator). Maybe I could see running a Surgical Extraction or 2 just in case you can counter and grab a SnT or an Omniscience from it, but other than that, I don't think RIP/Helm, or MD grave hate, or any other plan that completely retools the MD and SB is worth it.
Omnitell isn't on the level of dominance that U/R Cruise Delver was, so my advice is just to let it remain bad and hope to hit the other people trying to beat it. In Cleveland last weekend in a 160+ person tournament, I think I saw 3 or 4 people playing it, and 1 made Top 8, with no others I'm aware of in the top 16. It is prevalent in MODO, but that doesn't mean it is in your metagame.
I have to agree here. I tried a non welder RIP build I had been tinkering with and had poor results in portland. While RIP can be big in most matchups, welders ability to blank removal on our painters is not to be understated.
I'm going to let bygones be bygones and go for the beat down 8 blast plan against omni.
That's interesting, as I also decided to revisit the RiP/helm combo SB plan and actually put 3 tutors in the main, 3 x RiP and 1 x helm in the board. I've gotta say, it's actually been kind of amazing. Granted, I've mostly been testing in the practice room, but I've beat MUD 2-3 times with chalice on one, I beat Romario playing Japanese Omnitell, a couple 12 post decks and BUG delver. RiP is just really good against the DtT menace. It's also obviously descent against goyf and deathrite. I originally played 4 x RiP and 2 x helm, which obviously made that combo more obtainable. But I just have a hard time committing to it that much. My feeing is that if you would already bring RiP in against the MU, why not throw one copy of helm in for the surprise win.
It does obviously make welder worse, but you aren't relying on the combo for the win anyway against any Eldrazi deck so welder as a 1/1 beater is sub-optimal.
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Last edited by drude1; 05-06-2015 at 11:51 AM.
What do you take out to have 3 x RIP and 1 x Helm?
I'd likely just go back to that none recruiter creature light red-white painter list if your going that deep.
I played my mono red painter against grixis delver with 5-0 pre-board last night.
I did not resolve a single moon in these five games and there were 3 games I saw my singleton bridge and never wanted to cast it.
I assumed this is a terrible match-up initially, which may be not correct, Also I think with my sideboard post-board game would be much easier.
Team Blood, Beijing.
Currently play: Sneaky Show/ Lands
After my poor results and experience at scg portland I've gone back to mono-red painter. Currently I'm going to test Lejay's Daretti - chrome mox build he was running online. What version were you having success with?
Thought this might brighten someones day if you haven't seen it before,
I might put that on a T-shirt....love it.Thought this might brighten someones day if you haven't seen it before,
Also, to people who were asking about RiP/Helm SB. I set mine up like this (with 3 etutors in the main):
3 RiP
2 Helm
2 Sudden Shock
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Hedgemage
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Assemble the legion
1 Sphere of Law
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Blast
If I were going to keep the RiP/Helm combo I would probably actually add the fourth RiP, probably cutting either the blast or the bridge. Having said that, after a lot more playtesting I decided to cut it. I have to agree with the above sentiments that goblin welders are just too good against most match-ups that the nombo with RiP hurt too much. The only time I would really want to bring in the combo was against heavy graveyard strategies or Omnitell and it probably isn't' any better than just trying to beat down. I ended up adding 2 x containment priest as I think they cover more ground (graveyard/reanimator, elves, sneak and show, MUD, eureka, hypergenesis). Still not sure if was want bring leylines back in vs thorn/tax effects. Leylines are better against burn, discard, opposing planewalkers (eg Liliana) and storm decks. Tax effects are obviously better against omnitell. Anyone else have an opinion on this? Also, I still haven't heard from anyone on their experience with thorn vs trinisphere. If you could only run one of those, which would it be? thanks.
Last edited by drude1; 05-10-2015 at 12:34 AM.
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