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Thread: [Deck] Imperial Painter

  1. #21
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    @cook

    I agree to you here. If I play blade control against painter, I may side out batterskull after game one.
    Team Blood, Beijing.
    Currently play: Sneaky Show/ Lands

  2. #22
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    GoblinZ, if you drop to 3 City, you might consider adding a Petal and running the 2 Mox, 1 Petal arrangement in phoenix4's list. I have liked Petal as a 1-of to complement the Stompy. The 2 Bolt + 2 Jet appeals to my play style since you get a little more deck manipulation. I ran the same thing in the MD a couple of years ago and put the other 2 Bolt in the SB.

    I also like your list Claus as a way to go more all-in on the Moon plan. It makes sense that the MD Welder plan wouldn't make the cut with that approach. Dork beatdown after a first-turn Moon is legit. On Saturday I won a game with turn-one Moon followed by a single Spirit Guide (to be fair, I know I had a Top at some point and probably played some other stuff I can't remember, so it might have been like a seven or eight-turn kill instead of a full ten turns). Also, since you are all-in on Moon and Magus, the two MD Revokers look like they'd work well in there.

    Like Kap'n said, I'm not sure about boarding Grindstones out indiscriminately with most the lists, but I think I get your point. Opponents do board in based on the Grindstone plan most of the time, and you could enact a SB strategy that readily replaces Grindstones in most matchups. Kind of interesting actually. If I even started thinking about that, I would begin with Eldrazi decks in mind since that's where Grindstone is weakest.

    Re: the Sneak and Show matchup - this is where I really want a full set of Ensnaring Bridges. I have actually been pretty happy with the post-board Eldrazi matchup in most cases (Sneak and Show, Turbo-Eldrazi, etc.) with all-out Bridge plan out of the SB, which is facilitated with lots of deck manipulation. For Sneak and Show and Omniscience decks I also like Thorn of Amethyst.

    Kap'n, your Stoneblade SB philosophy sounds good. I actually haven't tried that because the Bridge plan has worked fairly well so far, but I will have to test more. With a full set of Tops, many times I don't mind going down to 0-2 cards-in-hand under a Bridge. I have typically bet that the Bridge will shut down their beatdown while blue-hate and Revoker handle Jace and I assemble the combo. As for the 1/1 creatures, I can usually block and kill most of those, or kill them with Jaya. Still, I'll have to try some more stuff out.

  3. #23
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    In the 6 rounds I played yesterday, I only saw the petal twice and once it came into play being all bad. :(

    But I'm hoping that it'll prove worth while in the future, seing you can play sol land on turn 1, removing for the red mana, needed for the first moon effect. :)

    But in all the games I played yesterday (I believe 14 games), I hit that Moon effect in 12 of the games... I'm not saying my list is the best at hitting that moon effect, but after last night... I'm very positive towards the biggest tournament on danish ground this year in 10 days time... Hopefully with 90+ players :)

  4. #24
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix4 View Post
    In the 6 rounds I played yesterday, I only saw the petal twice and once it came into play being all bad. :(

    But I'm hoping that it'll prove worth while in the future, seing you can play sol land on turn 1, removing for the red mana, needed for the first moon effect. :)

    But in all the games I played yesterday (I believe 14 games), I hit that Moon effect in 12 of the games... I'm not saying my list is the best at hitting that moon effect, but after last night... I'm very positive towards the biggest tournament on danish ground this year in 10 days time... Hopefully with 90+ players :)
    Good luck with your tourney. As long as you get paired against the top tier decks you will dominate with all the moons. Just pray that burn doesn't sit down across from you lol

  5. #25
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook View Post
    Good luck with your tourney. As long as you get paired against the top tier decks you will dominate with all the moons. Just pray that burn doesn't sit down across from you lol
    Well, I concidering 4 leylines in the board... ;)

  6. #26
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Since this thread has been restarted several times:

    Have we squashed the Witchbane Orb vs Leyline of Sanctity arguement? I play the Welder version of the deck, and thus play Orbs so that I don't have to mulligan as much. It'd be great to hear input from others who've played with the card.

  7. #27
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Quote Originally Posted by jandax View Post
    Since this thread has been restarted several times:

    Have we squashed the Witchbane Orb vs Leyline of Sanctity arguement? I play the Welder version of the deck, and thus play Orbs so that I don't have to mulligan as much. It'd be great to hear input from others who've played with the card.
    Beats me, but jandax, throw us a list? :)

    BTW, Are you going to strasbourg?

  8. #28

    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    I was toying around with the idea of trying out a mono blue painter deck, with essentially the same concept: 6-8 blast effects, forces, Tezzeret the Seeker, artifact toolkit. Has anyone actually tried this prior with any sort of success?

    I felt like the deck wanted to do too many things and it was hard for me to narrow it down, but Snapcaster Mage, Clique, Painter's Servant, and Trinket Mage seemed like a pretty awesome setup. The idea being that you can tutor a lot of pinpoint hate cards, or tutor a grindstone, you name Red and have 6-8 + 4x Snapcasters to vindicate everything you want. You could also use Tezzeret the Seeker to either: pump and then win next turn or tutor the missing combo piece into play..

    Maybe I'll fiddle around with it.

  9. #29
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    I've always liked the UR painter lists myself since you can run both Imperial Recruiter and Trinket Mage so you have tutors for either piece, plus Recruiter can get Trinket Mage if you need a Grindstone instead.

    However, it does lessen the explosiveness the mono red version gives not to mention the fun of just winning the game off a turn 1 Blood Moon / Magus.

  10. #30

    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Quote Originally Posted by Esper3k View Post
    I've always liked the UR painter lists myself since you can run both Imperial Recruiter and Trinket Mage so you have tutors for either piece, plus Recruiter can get Trinket Mage if you need a Grindstone instead.

    However, it does lessen the explosiveness the mono red version gives not to mention the fun of just winning the game off a turn 1 Blood Moon / Magus.
    Like I know it's not nearly as potent but blue does have Back to Basics

  11. #31

    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    To me the problem with the blue builds is how utterly worthless blue blast is without a painter in play. It pretty much doesn't do anything at all, whereas red blast by itself is still frequently useful.

  12. #32
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Quote Originally Posted by The Duressed View Post
    To me the problem with the blue builds is how utterly worthless blue blast is without a painter in play. It pretty much doesn't do anything at all, whereas red blast by itself is still frequently useful.
    I agree. The only thing fun with the blue version, is to throw in B2B.. and many counterspells :)

    Imperial painter offers so much more interaction (unless you resolve a blood moon!)

  13. #33
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    In the 6 rounds I played yesterday, I only saw the petal twice and once it came into play being all bad. :(

    But I'm hoping that it'll prove worth while in the future, seing you can play sol land on turn 1, removing for the red mana, needed for the first moon effect. :)
    Phoenix, in your build maybe the Moxen are enough and Petal is overkill? You don't play Welder so Petal won't provide synergy there either.

    Since this thread has been restarted several times:

    Have we squashed the Witchbane Orb vs Leyline of Sanctity arguement? I play the Welder version of the deck, and thus play Orbs so that I don't have to mulligan as much. It'd be great to hear input from others who've played with the card.
    What other re-started iPainter threads are you referring to?

    Re: Orb vs. Leyline, I don't like playing the mulligan game personally so I avoid Leylines of any kind unless I feel like there's no other choice.

    I've always liked the UR painter lists myself since you can run both Imperial Recruiter and Trinket Mage so you have tutors for either piece, plus Recruiter can get Trinket Mage if you need a Grindstone instead.

    However, it does lessen the explosiveness the mono red version gives not to mention the fun of just winning the game off a turn 1 Blood Moon / Magus.
    I do agree with you Esper - a single Trinket Mage completes the Recruiter engine for this deck. But to support it I think you need 3-4 Petals and a decent number of Fetchlands with a Dual or two. And this pretty much means you have to drop the number of SSG's and lower the amount of creatures in your deck, so in addition to the potential color requirement probelm you are more vulnerable to Wasteland and Stifle and less capable of surprise dork-beatdown. Still, it's always worth considering because T Mage finds the combo and a bunch of other stuff.

    Re: mono-blue Painter, The Duressed is right. Also, blue is a target for hate so I wouldn't choose it given a reasonable alternative. The last time I tried playing a blue deck, I ran into Choke every other match.

  14. #34
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Red Blasts are also inherently better than blue blasts due to the prevalence of blue in Eternal formats so you have a much better chance of getting use out of them even without a Painter in play.

  15. #35
    Bob Ross
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Since everyone loves Painter reports here is mine from Starcity DC yesterday. I ended up 28th place at 6-2-1 ID'ing round 9.

    I ended up putting Jaya back maindeck over the revoker because I was concerned about crazy stuff going down. I didn't have my 4th white-border pyroblast and Seth was too busy doing surgery on testicles haha or some shit all morning so he didn't have one for me when he showed up so I just played a 3-3 blast split. Everything else the same.

    Round 1 vs UW Stoneforge

    Game one he played out a stoneforge getting a batterskull then I dropped a moon on his two duals and went beats. Recruiter got Jaya to deal with any nonsense that might occur.

    Game two I believe I tried to drop a turn 2 moon that got countered or something got countered tapping me out. Turn 3 he played a geist of traft that just destroyed my ass. Both games 1 and 2 were completely one sided.

    Game three I opened up my 7 and 6 with acceleration pieces, filter, and moons but no land which I would have kept in a second. I mulled to 5 and kept Welder, mountain, gstone, gstone, looting. I played out a welder that met swords I believe and then played a stone and looted into the 3rd grindstone. I dumped both keeping a sensei top. He kept a slower, removal heavy hand that wasn't applying much pressure so I was able to start looting away the chaff and find better things. I played a painter that got swords, and then my grindstone was disenchanted. I fetched to clear top and topdecked the 4th grindstone lol. It was met by a topdecked detention sphere and by then he had started getting stoneforges out and equipping and jitte eventually finished me off. I brought in 2 ensnaring bridge but the one I saw got countered the last turn before lethal. Awesome dude to play against and it was a lighthearted match so I wasn't too down about losing round 1.

    0-1


    Round 2 vs MUD

    He won the roll and played Dust bowl, go. The only decks that I knew of that played dustbowl were serious UW control decks or various stax-type decks. Either way I dropped a turn 1 moon and said go. Over the next few turns he dropped a bunch of lands and mana rocks and had a ton of mana to cast whatever he drew. We're talking like emrakul mana even with the moon out. I was drawing pretty much only lands although I did get painter, jaya online before it was shut down by a Phyrexian Revoker. Then Karn, Liberated came out and nuked painter but I drew a bolt to deal with Karn. A second Karn came down and blew up 2 things before dying. During those turns 2 wurmcoil engines were played as well as a Platinum Emperion. I had to chump taking 14 damage down to 4 life when I drew a recruiter and had the awesome idea of getting metamorph copying Platinum. That bought me a few turns before a THIRD Karn came out and pillaged my metamorph. Crazy game.

    Game 2 was over really quick. I mulled to 6 and had a quick turn 3 combo

    Game 3 ended up being really crazy too. We both started out building up resources and taking tomb damage here and there. He got an early ratchet bomb to deal with my welder but kill his voltaic key as well. Metalworkers joined the fray but there weren't too many artifacts in hand to play. I luckily got an ensnaring bridge out and hid behind that as there were chalices at 1 and 2 flying around, a steel hellkite that couldn't attack, a revoker on grindstone etc. Eventually though he drew a Karn and exiled a card from my hand so I just ditched a chrome mox. Then he vindicated my ancient tomb but I had been holding extra lands for some reason I can't remember now. Luckily I drew metamorph and played it copying revoker naming Karn before he blew up my ensnaring bridge. That basically won me the game as I was able to find Manic Vandal and blow up chalice at 1, play a welder, and then start welding his board so I could use my grindstone. I kept milling myself looking for painter at his eot but I drew a recruiter to get painter and played it into chalice at 2 so I could weld it back later. Won the next turn.

    1-1


    Round 3 vs ANT

    Not knowing what he was playing I kept mountain, bolt, 2 blast, Recruiter, looting and maybe blood moon? on the play. He led turn one delta into swamp into foil duress so I just assumed storm. He took looting and I bolted end step. I drew another mountain and played both and countered a cantrip or something before getting ad nauseumed.

    Game 2 I kept a non-leyline hand with crypt, some blasts, grindstone, welder and lands. I used the blasts to stall and crypt to keep off past in flames if necessary to get painter and win.

    Game 3 was leyline and combo pieces with 1 land and chrome mox. My third mana was ssg so I did it on his upkeep and it got echoing truthed. Welded out painter for top so i wouldn't have to replay painter. I drew for the turn and it was a blast. I looked top 3 for a double land but an ssg 3 down. I said go and he actually cast rituals and cast ad nauseum but i welded the painter back in to counter it. Drew ssg and won.

    2-1


    Round 4 vs White Stax (wtf but nice guy who top 32d as well)

    Game one I keep a hand with a bunch of mana and recruiter and top which actually turned out to be pretty good. Except on the play he went turn 1 trinisphere, turn 2 smokestack, turn 3 bottled cloister. I had played recruiter turn 2 and a grindstone but eventually the smokestack on 2 and card advantage wore me down. So I allowed my board to empty and refill my hand until his smokestack died. Luckily no crucible or actual clock for him so I started out playing lands and dudes again. He played another smokestack so I let my board die again. He then played a third one and had gotten a mishras factory out so it was game over for me.
    I think I sided something like: out 2 blood moon, 3 bolt, for 3 bridge, 1 manic vandal, 1 magus of the moon. Not too sure because its stax, when do you see that.

    So game 2 I started out with a turn one grindstone and turn 2 recruiter for painter while i had 2 blasts in hand. He played a turn 2 trinisphere. I think i just ran out painter anyways and then he oblivion ringed it. In retrospect I should have just waited until I had 6 mana to play painter and blow up oblivion ring if he had played it on grindstone or just combo out since he only had permanent based disruption. So painter was gone so I started sensei topping and grindstoning myself on my turn since he had a sundial of the infinite out and I didn't want him to be able to activate it. He played another oblivion ring and nabbed my grindstone. I was trying to go aggro and I got him to single digits when he played a Gideon. He made my recruiter and spirit guide attack him so he could swing for 6 and repeat. I played revoker naming gideon to continue beats since he hadn't found a mishra factory yet either. But he had drawn a third Oblivion ring and sniped revoker. I was topping and trying not to kill myself with ancient tomb and still play blockers for gideon. I found a magus but had to use it to block gideon while I attacked with spirit guide past his factories. Magus died and the next turn I couldnt find anything and died with my opponent at 3 life. Maybe not attack with ssg and block gideon with it and hope I can draw runner runner creature? Not sure.
    But still. Stax is sweet so I'm not too upset about losing to it. Plus since top8 was gone now I could just play at ease and focus on just playing well for top 32.

    2-2


    Round 5 vs Junk

    Game 1 he played out 2 fetches without cracking while I had a moon in hand so I played a recruiter fetching recruiter not wanting him to know I had a game-ending moon and allow him to fetch basics. His turn he tapped out for a liliana and made me sac recruiter so I played blood moon on his 3 non basics. From there I just went jungle beats with the other recruiter, simian, and the jaya i tutored.

    Game 2 he played turn one duress on moon and turn two bob off two duals. Luckily my turn 2 I drew Magus of the Moon and played it. My draws were terrible though and he was able to cast batterskull on 5 lands to stall my beatdown+bob damage and I couldn't find a grindstone or a backup moon. He got a deathrite and sylvan library out to draw millions of cards and decay my magus and start dropping creatures and removing painters. Of course after this happens I draw two straight grindstones so I play one and sandbag the other just in case. O-ring on stone. I had a recruiter as well so I get a painter and he plays swords so I blast the oring with enough mana to activate but he decays painter in response. I start chumping batterskull and he gets a jitte out. My hand at this point is 2nd grindstone, and another recruiter and a blast. I get the 3rd painter and play it and he attacks with jitte on bob and bskull while Im at 9. I know I would have to deal with 2 possible deathrite activations even if I milled him so i block bob and skull with 2 recruiters. Plus this allows me to use an ancient tomb if i draw it. My turn I play grindstone. He decays painter in response so I blasted the oring with the stone under it. Comes back and I mill out. I had enough mana to cast stone twice and blast so it didn't matter

    3-2


    Round 6 vs Dredge (friend from store plus the guy I went with to Edison who top8d)

    We both obviously know what the other is playing. I kept a painter, 2 blast, top, looting hand to deal with early nonsense on his part. Turn one kept up blast in case of breakthrough or study. Therapied himself turn 1 to bin dredger. Turn 2 play painter and counter his breakthrough turn 2. Turn 3 I play top and look for grindstone but dont find it so I blast his coliseum. I had looted away the 2nd and 3rd painter and with the top saw the 4th so I blocked an Ichorid and take some more damage. I played the 4th painter off a city of traitors knowing I had one more turn before I die so I played to my out of playing and spinning top for the 3rd card down to be a grindstone but it wasn't

    Game 2 was just turn 1 welder crypt with more artifacts on the way. He claimed a crypt but I drew another and just chilled until I drew the combo.

    Game 3 was pretty much the dirtiest draw of all time and I felt pretty bad since it was a friend. Gstone, Painter, Crypt, mountain, 2 blast, monkey. Draw mountain play stone and crypt. He claimed the stone and I draw tomb. Play painter with both blasts as backup. Next turn draw grindstone and blast his ancient grudge.

    4-2


    Round 7 vs Tinfins (another balitimore guy)

    I basically get turn 1'd since he draws 21 cards but can't continue and therapies me down to 4 cards (furnace, tomb, blast, blood moon or something). He was at 1 life so if i draw bolt i win but nope

    Game 2 I play turn 1 blood moon and crypt and ride that to victory until I grind myself into painter and weld. After the match he said he had turn 1 if I didn't drop moon.

    Game 3 I kept 2 sol, monkey, moon, bridge, welder, something. He probed and thoughtseized off a bayou (abrupt decay side I assumed) and took moon. I played bridge turn 1. Next turn he thoughtseized away the something card and I drew another monkey so I played welder and began the beats. He didn't have another land so he just kept passing for a while. Eventually i drew a chrome mox and imprinted a spare welder and started blasting cantrips he played off a chrome mox. I drew recruiter and got revoker to name chrome mox (shutting off my only red source too) and kept beating. He decayed revoker and brainstormed but I had lucksacked again and drawn another blast. I kept the welder/recruiter beats going and they get there.

    5-2


    So at this point Seth and I had the same exact result every single match so we were always a few matches away each other, getting as close as matches next to each other but luckily we never played each other and dealt with the mirror. It was fun between rounds bitching about abrupt decay, I should splash yada yada yada. We did think how Bug can't beat a resolved Ali from Cairo which would be awesome. Basically more people should play painter and stop whining now that judge recruiter playsets sell for about 500.


    Round 8 against Shardless Bug (another person I knew)

    Game one on the play turn 1 blood moon scoop
    Game two turn 1 bolt deathrite, turn 2 moon.

    6-2


    Round 9 wouldíve been against Esper Stoneblade against someone who knew I was on painter as I have faced him during scg before but I mainly just wanted the guaranteed top 32 as did he so we just IDíd and switched decks and played for fun. I had no idea how to play stoneblade and I got blood mooned through force without blue to cast Jace so I just died. The other game Welder went to town on me haha.

    So 28th. Decent after starting 2-2. Going forward Iím just going to keep Jaya main even though she is slow vs tempo and worse vs sneak just because randos like playing chalice and enchantress. I want to try out the +1 fetch +1 lotus petal for 2 chrome mox but I am hesitant. Every time they fuck me over they come back and win me the next game. Everything else felt really good

  16. #36
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook View Post
    So 28th. Decent after starting 2-2. Going forward Iím just going to keep Jaya main even though she is slow vs tempo and worse vs sneak just because randos like playing chalice and enchantress. I want to try out the +1 fetch +1 lotus petal for 2 chrome mox but I am hesitant. Every time they fuck me over they come back and win me the next game. Everything else felt really good
    Nice tourney for you Kap'n! :)

    I think you should try the "Petal Project" soon.. I mean, what's the worst thing that could happen? ;)

    How many fellow painters are located in Europe? :)

  17. #37
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Yes I was literally playing with a set of balls before the event that were not my own. I ended up 5-4 and I'll get a quick report up. Some bad draws to June and some inexperience there along with just bad luck. I've bEen texting jack and think I have some ideas how to make june better. I try and get a better post together on Tuesday. A lot of the thoughts will be based on he white splash which was awesome all day btw. I know I'm the only person not running mono red anymore but I love it all day and the splash allowed me to beat hatfield playing high tide, hang with and beat GOOD TES players and the like.

    Seth
    Öno matter how much you think you love somebody, youíll step back when the pool of their blood edges up too close.

  18. #38
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Nice report! It seems that junk player should have fetched basic when he already saw you were playing painter. Imperial painter will punish those players who are unexperienced or have little knowledge about this deck. I even locked sneakattack up last time for he did not this deck and fetched two volcanic islands.

    Ali from cairo is fun to play, I always wish I can have a chance to recruit for it.
    Team Blood, Beijing.
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  19. #39
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    What do you guys think of fetch lands in the main?

    Pro's and con's anyone?

    On a personal note, I've always played with fetches, but the last month I've tried without it, and it seems more resilient, if the meta has Stifle in it?

  20. #40
    Bob Ross
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Seth (sroncor1) asked me to post his report and thoughts since his Source message reply isn't working.


    So I went 5-4 over the weekend. I was doing well till some bad play on my part against Jund. I will not be one of those guys who tells a bad beats story, although I was unlucky against the deck( the draws were incredibly strong with basically only reactive cards. I think the match up is rough, but winnable. My major mistake was looking at Deathrite Shaman, Abrupt decay, Bob, and Bloodbraid individually when I missed the strength and synergy of the cards together. I was able to hang in there against the regular decks, beating Stoneblade, and Alix Hatfield with High Tide. The deck still has game, and the failings are largely my own and mistakes due to not seeing what was important with the Jund matchup.

    8 sollands
    6 mountains
    4 fetchlands
    2 plateau

    4 recruiters
    4 painters servant
    4 SSG
    1 Jaya
    2 Goblin welder
    7 blast effects
    1 koth
    1 lotus petal
    3 tops
    4 blood moon
    2 magus of the moon
    3 e. tutor

    Side
    3 ensnaring bridge
    1 peacekeeper
    4 rest in peace
    4 tormodís crypt
    I koth
    1 helm
    1 magus of the moon

    The deck was great against stoneblade bug and rug. I felt like I was hanging tough against TES ,and I was able to beat Omnishow over the weekend. I played and went 4-0 in the legacy challenge, so I got a lot of games in. My changes for the deck arenít much. I do want to change up the board. Right now I am trying 4 firebolt, and 3 SLaS in the board for Jund. To make room Koth leaves the main deck with a transfer of peacekeeper as she allows you to shut out eldrazi attacks game one. Cut ensnaring bridge to 2, drop the Koth from the board, along with the Magus, and drop 3 of the crypts.

    Seth

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