[Deck] Imperial Painter

[thebastard2]

Great work. RB reanimator is tough, especially when they know we are painter and play without fear for force.

You find the fiery confluence pulled it's weight?

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To be honest, I boarded the Confluences only once during the entire tourney. It was against Dragon Stompy and I used it to kill two Chalices.
I'll continue to use it and see what happens.

Is only having 3 recruiters a preference? Would you ever consider going to 4 and if so what would you cut?

I wanted to squeeze one Jaya in the mainboard , but I didn't want to reduce the number of the other cards so I just cut one recruiter.
Jaya won me a game each against RG Lands and D.Stompy.

[drude1]

Wow, this board has been pretty silent lately. No innovations or testing results out there? I thought people would actually be ramping up testing a little given the LV PT this weekend. Anyway, thought I would clutter up the board with some thoughts...

One thing I've been noticing a lot more of is the new Miracles deck. Particularly online, this deck is everywhere right now. From my experience it's not as bad as the old Miracles (no counterbalance lock) but it still isn't easy. They typically load up with removal and a lot of lists are also now playing Leyline of Sanctity which we have to get around to combo. I've been actually siding out all of my creatures save 1-2 painters and just out controlling them. I've won many games just milling them with grindstone slowly and controlling their threats.

Speaking of leylines, I'm playing leylines in my board lately and I have to say they seem really good right now. It feels particularly good against the MU's we are a little soft to (burn, big red, fast combo) and I have also been seeing a lot of discard and liliana making a resurgence. I also bring it in against the new miracles deck where they are constantly trying to manipulate the top of our deck with Jace, portent and predict. We also can't get Jace ultimated as long as leyline is in play.

Another point, with surgical extraction EVERYWHERE right now, I think we really need to diversify our win cons. Personally, I have taken a page from big red and have gone back to 3 fiery confluence in the board and 2 chandra and the pyrite spellbombs in the main. That along with the few creatures that can occasionally get in for a few points I can usually get there. Chandra behind a bridge is still a house. I am still on Daretti as well and if I can get Daretti tokens, a pyrite spellbomb and a welder going, I can accumulate damage pretty quick. I did actually have an opponent drop a humility on me last week (obviously not knowing the painter interaction) and I actually proceeded to beat him down with Daretti tokens....made me almost consider running humility myself.

Also, I know I was pushing git probe in some earlier posts. And although they weren't bad at times and did give you information, they did not provide enough draw/library manipulation. I was also cutting some number of other very good cards to make room for them. So, that idea has gone the way of the dodo.

Anyway, good luck to anyone who is playing legacy in Las Vegas this weekend. Hope to see some painters in the mix.

[SDBobPlissken]

After reading your post leylines would actually solve a lot of my problems. I think I'm gonna try to snag some before vegas tomorrow. Are you playing in it? What would you cut for the leylines in this list? I'm thinking definitely cop:red. Any other suggestions please let me know. Do you mind sharing your lust with daretti?

4 mountain
1 plains
1 great furnace
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
4 arid Mesa
2 plateau

4 painters servant
2 simian spirit guide
1 revoker
2 goblin welder
3 imperial recruiter
1 ethersworn canoeist

2 ensnaring bridge
3 lotus petal
2 Chandra torch of defiance
4 grindstone
1 relic of progenitus
4 pyroblast
3 red elemental blast
4 blood moon
3 enlightened tutor
1 engineered explosives

SB:

2 fiery confluence
3 sudden shock
1 ethersworn canonist
1 trinisphere
1 cop:red
1 magus of the moon
1 ensnaring bridge
1 Rest In Peace
1 containment priest
1 tormods crypt
1 hedge mage
1 faerie macabre

[merfolkotpt]

I am still testing with black, but now just for sideboard cards and 1 of kolaghan's command. I tried out scroll rack and bob at one point and both were mediocre.

So far I think WR seems like the most flexible and mono red just seems a little boring to play, but solid. K Command is a heck of a card though.

[finksfinksfinks]

Hey new to Legacy so this might be a terrible idea, but would Inventors' Fair be a worthwhile card in this deck? the mono red version in particular seems capable of throwing down a lot of artifacts, it helps out a little (maybe?) with the burn matchup, and gives a late game tutor to finish off the combo.

[drude1]

Inventors fair is iffy. Its a good card and definitely has an upside. The problem is that we are already playing with a lot of colorless lands and we don't want to get choked out. Also, it obviously gets shut off by blood moon so "specialty lands" have traditionally not been great in this deck. I wouldn't necessarily fault anyone for trying it though.

@sdbob: sorry I didn't reply sooner. Hope GPLV is treating you well. You have a pretty tight SB. I would probably cut the bridge, cop red and maybe canonist. Canonist is a good card but in my experience is always late to the party.
I'll post my list when I get home.

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[finksfinksfinks]

What if one has a lower colorless count due to a lack of City of Traitors? I know that loses some of the explosiveness, but trying to compensate by upping the spirit guide and petal counts

[GradStudent]

Invocation blood moon looks pretty sick
I tried RW painter tonight with 1-2 + bye results. It was pretty meh. Really different without top, Felt underwhelming, but probably also because I played burn round one and just folded to it.

[tired_papasmurf]

Invocation blood moon looks pretty sick

Does Painter have the highest ceiling for pimp now? We got fetches, Tombs, Painter, Grindstone, E-bridge, Blood Moon, Lotus Petal, Mox Opal, Explosives. It's not all that expensive of pimp (reletive), but there's a lot to get.

[Mapson]

Does Painter have the highest ceiling for pimp now?

Depends on your definition. I kinda feel like its d&t because feelings are so mixed on expeditions and that deck is available entirely in foil

[Kap'n Cook]

Yo guys if any of you or anyone you know are potentially in the market for some cool painter stuff let me know. I'm looking to get more into Vintage at the moment as legacy has kinda been stale for me for a while and the top banning was really deflating to my preferred style of Shortcake. Plus I'm trying to get a new surfboard haha. Shoot me a PM if interested.

Also want to add that I'm still going to be working on the deck and playing it online, I just barely make it out to paper events ever.

[drude1]

Yo guys if any of you or anyone you know are potentially in the market for some cool painter stuff let me know. I'm looking to get more into Vintage at the moment as legacy has kinda been stale for me for a while and the top banning was really deflating to my preferred style of Shortcake. Plus I'm trying to get a new surfboard haha. Shoot me a PM if interested.

Also want to add that I'm still going to be working on the deck and playing it online, I just barely make it out to paper events ever.

I think you'll be sorry.

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[Kap'n Cook]

On another note, has anyone revisited Nahiri as a walker for the deck?

[mcbain]

I would still play ajani or Chandra over her.



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[drude1]

So I played side events at the gp this weekend. First event didn't go well. Second event added a couple smugglers copter and they were quite good when I saw them. You kinda have to build around them a little more but they are quite good at cycling through your deck while clocking your opponent. Against eldrazi I had a game where he had out chalice on 1 and I had out ensnaring bridge, dudes and a copter. I would draw up to 3, attack and then play a card. Ended up getting there with copter alone. Just something for people to consider.

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[jasper]

So I played side events at the gp this weekend. First event didn't go well. Second event added a couple smugglers copter and they were quite good when I saw them. You kinda have to build around them a little more but they are quite good at cycling through your deck while clocking your opponent. Against eldrazi I had a game where he had out chalice on 1 and I had out ensnaring bridge, dudes and a copter. I would draw up to 3, attack and then play a card. Ended up getting there with copter alone. Just something for people to consider.

Been thinking about copter for a little while but haven't had a chance to test. Were you playing in Shortcake, mono-red or BR? My mono-red build is still stuck with Relics, which have been decent but not amazing. I mulligan a lot more than I used to with top. You can win off 5, or even 4, but the wheels do fall off more often than they used. I also find that without the same ability to dig for combo pieces, the softlock pieces like Bridge feel a lot more fragile, and I'm always sweating to close the game without the redundancy of big bombs that other red prison decks run.

When you say build around copter, how many creatures are you playing? Is Servant/Welder/Recruiter enough? Which matchups have you found the copter best in?

[AnvilOfCrom]

Went 4-2 on sunday in a local tournament (Win A Dual Open - Tübingen/Germany with 36 Players) which was good enough for 7th Place.

I played a Mono Red Version, nearly the same as the one i played at Eternal Weekend Europe for a 7-2 finish.
- 1 Welder
- 2 Top (of course)
- 5 fetch Lands

+ 1 Chandra
+ 2 Relic of Progenitus
+ 5 Mountains

My Matchups:
2-1 Infect
2-0 Canadian Threshold
0-2 UW Miracles
0-2 Sneak and Show
2-1 Grixis Delver
2-0 Elves

[drude1]

Been thinking about copter for a little while but haven't had a chance to test. Were you playing in Shortcake, mono-red or BR? My mono-red build is still stuck with Relics, which have been decent but not amazing. I mulligan a lot more than I used to with top. You can win off 5, or even 4, but the wheels do fall off more often than they used. I also find that without the same ability to dig for combo pieces, the softlock pieces like Bridge feel a lot more fragile, and I'm always sweating to close the game without the redundancy of big bombs that other red prison decks run.

When you say build around copter, how many creatures are you playing? Is Servant/Welder/Recruiter enough? Which matchups have you found the copter best in?

Well, I've actually been playing 3 colors for all the goodness. This is what I played this weekend...


// Lands
3 [MR] Great Furnace
2 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
2 [UNH] Mountain
2 [B] Badlands
1 [B] Plateau
1 [UNH] Plains
4 [ZEN] Arid Mesa

// Creatures
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
3 [UL] Goblin Welder
1 [MMA] Ethersworn Canonist
3 [P3] Imperial Recruiter

// Spells
4 [TE] Grindstone
3 [TE] Lotus Petal
2 [SOM] Mox Opal
4 [IA] Pyroblast
2 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
1 [KLD] Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 [DK] Blood Moon
3 [MMA] Pyrite Spellbomb
3 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
2 [CN2] Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
2 [KLD] Smuggler's Copter

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SOM] Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 3 [C15] Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 [UL] Engineered Plague
SB: 1 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 [MMA] Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 [M11] Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 [OD] Sphere of Law
SB: 1 [DS] Trinisphere


I have really been liking the Daretti and since it also turns on smuggler's copter, I am looking to change the numbers around a little and would probably add one of each to shave a pyrite and chandra from the main. I am also thinking about just running r/b and doing something like this...


// Lands
3 [MR] Great Furnace
3 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
2 [UNH] Mountain
2 [B] Badlands
1 [UNH] Swamp
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire

// Creatures
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
3 [UL] Goblin Welder
3 [P3] Imperial Recruiter
1 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker

// Spells
4 [TE] Grindstone
3 [TE] Lotus Petal
2 [SOM] Mox Opal
4 [IA] Pyroblast
2 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
4 [DK] Blood Moon
3 [CN2] Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
2 [MMA] Pyrite Spellbomb
2 [PS] Diabolic Intent
3 [KLD] Smuggler's Copter
1 [A] Red Elemental Blast

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 2 [KLD] Chandra, Torch of Defiance
SB: 1 [SOM] Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 3 [C15] Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 [DS] Trinisphere
SB: 1 [RTR] Slaughter Games
SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 [UL] Engineered Plague
SB: 1 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 [MMA] Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 [FUT] Magus of the Moon

In testing, the diabolic intent have been pretty good with the extra daretti as well. They allow you to go get anything (including a blast to protect the combo) and there is a huge benefit to putting something into your hand vs on top of you library, especially with all the predicts running around these days. 3-4 color delver lists are also gaining popularity as well so I am adding a magus back into the mix. I will miss the canonist and the white enchantments from the board but that's about it.

[finksfinksfinks]

Thoughts on Grim Lavamancer? Going off the GP Vegas results, that seems like a reasonable play against DNT and Delver
EDIT: Also better with copter as it crews and then copter throws fuel into the yard for lavamancer

[Hopo]

Thoughts on Grim Lavamancer? Going off the GP Vegas results, that seems like a reasonable play against DNT and Delver
EDIT: Also better with copter as it crews and then copter throws fuel into the yard for lavamancer

You will struggle to have ammo for Lavamancer available when you need it. Copter is just an additional piece to the puzzle.

What it comes to pinging, I started testing Walking Ballista as tutorable removal. I was talking to another painter dude in GP Copenhagen when he mentioned that it is a consideration. The thought has amused me since then.