Your creature count may be a tad low to reliably crew the Copter. I have found that 16 is about as low as I can get to reliable use it. Now you are running fewer copies so resolving it first turn in your list is less of a priority but if you consider upping the Copters I would also consider added a couple dudes. Canonist has been fantastic across the board. With the tutors and draw you could probably replace a Bridge with it and actually improve your Tendrils match up game one while still being strong against some Show and Tell variants. But otherwise your list is very close to what Jack and I have sort of narrowed down to. He is also I think shooting for 3 Copters.
Seth
…no matter how much you think you love somebody, you’ll step back when the pool of their blood edges up too close.
Yeah you're absolutely right. Thinking about it after work I think i'm going to go something like this. I think that it's still kind of low but I think that P&K basically are 3 creatures and a tutorable way to grind out game 1.Originally Posted by sroncor1
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Plateau
4 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
2 Arid Mesa
3 Enlightened Tutor
4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
4 Blood Moon
4 Painter's Servant
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Goblin Welder
1 Magus of the Moon
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Imperial Recruiter
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Lotus Petal
1 Lion's Eye Diamond/1 Smuggler's Copter
2 Smuggler's Copter
3 Grindstone
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Fiery Confluence
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Trinisphere
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Viashino Heretic
1 Ensnaring Bridge
@cpt- It's tough to comment on your list as there are so many differences from what I have been running. I hope you see the value of the Copter moving forward. With respect to my list I have really streamlined it. I am very focused on the combo with a few tutor targets to solve sticky situations. Instead of using higher end cards to generate value, the Copter takes care of that. You may find that Pia is too slow to allow consistent activations come turn 2.
Seth
…no matter how much you think you love somebody, you’ll step back when the pool of their blood edges up too close.
Ok, so trying to be a team player, I've also been playing around with the R/W shortcake list incorporating Smuggler's Copters. I've gotta say I've also had some luck with it. I agree that "stream-lining" it seems to have wheels, and turn 1 Blood Moon is still as strong as it has ever been. Here is the list that i have been trying...
// Lands
4 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
1 [MR] Great Furnace
3 [EX] City of Traitors
2 [B] Plateau
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
3 [ZEN] Mountain (3a)
1 [BFZ] Plains (4F)
1 [KTK] Bloodstained Mire
// Creatures
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
3 [P3] Imperial Recruiter
3 [UL] Goblin Welder
1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
2 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
2 [M12] Grim Lavamancer
// Spells
4 [TE] Grindstone
3 [IA] Pyroblast
4 [CH] Blood Moon
1 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
3 [ARE] Enlightened Tutor
3 [TE] Lotus Petal
2 [B] Red Elemental Blast
2 [THS] Magma Jet
4 [KLD] Smuggler's Copter
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [KLD] Chandra, Torch of Defiance
SB: 1 [OD] Sphere of Law
SB: 1 [EVE] Duergar Hedge-Mage
SB: 4 [RTR] Rest in Peace
SB: 2 [C14] Containment Priest
SB: 2 [MGD] Abrade
SB: 1 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 [AL] Helm of Obedience
SB: 1 [KLI] Engineered Explosives
Like I said, I've been having pretty good luck with this version in the practice room. It is the version of the deck that is currently having the best luck against delver variants, which is something I'm pretty excited about. I have not played against elves yet, which at a glance seems like it could be a bad match-up without any great sweepers in the deck. I normally really like fiery confluence but with this deck having so many 1-toughness cratures it just doesn't seem great. I have been doing fine against D&T and other creature heavy decks though. I've been playing a couple main deck copies of magma jet also. They kill deathrites and other nuisance creatures and help dig through the deck quickly. I'm still a little worried about RiP as the graveyard hate. I haven't brought it in a lot. It just feels a little slow against fast graveyard centered decks like reanimator. I'm wondering if a split is worth it like maybe with a couple surgicals? I'll be curious to see Jack/Seth's list. I'm still mainly on Grixis Painter at this point but I am intrigued by the resurgence of shortcake!
P.S. I have NOT been having great luck with the black splash version of the deck and I think for now that one will be seeing the least amount of effort/updates from me.
Anyone will Stream the deck on MTGO? I am really curious to see smoggler version in RW.
I will probably have some time to stream tomorrow. I've been streaming grixis painter lately but I wouldn't mind trying this deck as it has been doing well for me in the practice room. Not sure if Jack is still streaming or not. Jack? Would love to see you do some streaming as well!
Nice i hope i will see you!
Exciting to see people working on Shortcake again—welcome back Seth! Some of the new lists floating around look very tempting to have a play with—I'll likely try it out in a league at some point this weekend.
I like Smuggler's Copter, have been trying to figure out a way to make that card work for a while, and maybe Lavaman is the solution. However, I think that 16 creatures may not be quite enough to justify the full four Copters. According to Frank Karsten, in order to have a 90% probability that the number of creatures we draw in our top 12 cards strictly exceeds the number of Vehicles in our top 12, we should be running at least 18 creatures for 4 Vehicles. I think this is especially important given that ideal scenarios for Copter seem to be those in which we can play it off a sol land turn 1 and crew it turn 2. I'm also not sure that counting Simian Spirit Guide is quite justifiable, because casting it as a Grey Ogre is so mediocre. Answers to this issue might include playing with a copy of Magus in the main or going down to 3 copies of the Copter (as they also aren't great in multiples).
Pia and Kiran is another cool and versatile card for sure, and one I think it could be nice to find space for.
Initially (and bear in mind I haven't played with any of the lists floating around currently), I'm surprised by the lack of Chandra. Prior to the top ban, I was finding Chandra to be reliably one of the most powerful cards in the deck, providing a source of card advantage, removal, and a quick clock (via the ultimate) on an otherwise stalled board while sidestepping many of the available answers to the combo as well as Chalice. At the same time, I can see how with Smuggler, where creature density is all the more important, a four mana Planeswalker might not quite fit into the curve and common play patterns.
On the topic of Chalice, I think having at least one answer maindeck is important. Aside from the already mentioned Engineered Explosives, I think Abrade is worth testing as an answer to DRS and Chalice in one card, although perhaps in addition to EE.
Prior to the top ban, I was playing with an Ethersworn Canonist main and I think the card does real work against a lot of decks. It's nice to have a flexible (and tutorable) hate piece like it in the main deck because you can steal wins from decks that don't have answers to it.
Another surprise is the lack of Pithing Needle effects in most of the builds I'm seeing. No Revokers, no Needles, no Spyglasses. I've been really enjoying Spyglass in mono-blue as an answer to all sorts of nonsense. In this deck, Revoker might be the better fit given the way it plays with Recruiter and Copter.
I'm curious about RiP-Helm out of the board—how effective has this been and which matchups is it for?
Anyway, cheers to Shortcake and looking forward to seeing further development.
^
Lack of space for the cards you’re mentioning seems to be the big issue. Ideally we’d get to play all those cards but the list fills up incredibly quickly, especially if you’re proposing 18 creatures without counting Simians. I agree that Chandra ToD is a house; if we could incorporate her AND Copter we’d probably have a very streamlined, consistent build. There’s two big problems I see with it though that may not be reconcilable:
1. As mentioned, design space. To fit a couple Chandras with some Copters we could start to have to cut a few of the sacred cows from the deck. The rub is they would have to be non-creatures due to Copter. That means either A) Cutting blasts. Do we really want to cut blasts? What do we lose compared to what we gain? B) Cutting combo pieces. In a two card combo deck where we already have some trouble getting Grindstone I’m not sure this is what we want. C) Cutting fast mana. Losing Petals makes playing white way harder and hurts the Blood Moon plan. D) Cutting Blood Moon. Might be reasonable to drop one or two given how it’s not the slam dunk it used to be? Replace with Magus to crew Copter? E) Cut Bridge. Which leads to...
2) Bridge doesn’t play well with Copter but is very good with Chandra. This could just be my opinion but it is pretty essential as a lock piece in this deck, and shuts down whole decks once online in the first game. I firmly believe you want Bridge to protect Chandra since we lack the removal necessary to clear the opponents’ creatures. But then you are highly at odds with Copter, and I’ve noticed the Copter lists Cutting all but one Bridge probably for this reason. All that said, I haven’t tested this; the strain here not be as bad as I think it would be. Also worth considering that, like Blood Moon, in today’s metagame Bridge is not the slam dunk it used to be due to cards like K Command and Council’s Judgement being run in the main.
Of all these, I think running a few Magus instead of a some number of Blood Moon might go the farthest toward ensuring Copter can be crewed. That, in addition to adding a Canonist and Revoker to the main, perhaps?
I’m not saying don’t play Chandra by the way. Might end up we have to choose between that and Copter though, which could lead to radically different builds.
@crowe- You are completely correct. Its a space issue at this time. I would love to add 2 more creatures to the deck, but man I don't know how to do that without lossing other things. The new primer will have an updated list of core cards, but I will say now you are really looking at like 3 flex cards in the deck of 60. You can also adjust a land to suite your tastes along with a source of fast mana, and the Lavaman/Welder split, but in general there is no space. It is something I have struggled with. I have even removed Jaya from the 60, which is something I don't think I ever did in the past 5 plus years. To be honest with you I have not had a hard time crewing the Copter. The four mana of Pia and Kiran is really problematic to ensure a second turn crewing. I think once people start testing the Copter they will see that the traditional cards that people tried to use for grindy advantage really aren't needed.
Abrade is a great card, just really no place for it in the deck. I have removed all targeted removal from the 75 at this time. You really need your sideboard to do a lot of heavy lifting and finding that space is real tough. So you need to take advantage of the tutors to maximize what your Sideboard can cover. THe inability to tutor Abrade and its inability to interact favorably with Copter makes it difficult to run, even though the card is otherwise an effect that we would love. Its ability to clear Revokers, and Needles is amazing, with also destroying most of the other creatures in the format.
Chandra is a house. I just don't see where she fits in at this time, outside of the Sideboard. There is also the issue, what decks do you actually want her in? Miracles? yes. Grixis Delver? I have to say no. Tendrils? Not really. Turbo Depths? Too slow. Death and Taxes? Maybe, although four mana while ensuring adequate protection seems a tad rough. Slower lands list? Yes. although without a Moon in play Punishing Fire just decimates her. ANd if you have a Moon in this situation it is probably just to play something that moves you to a faster win in general bc you can only play around with those lists for a few turns.
@Bridge- It isn't so much that it doesn't work well with Copter as much as it's an oh shit safety valve against broken shit. You really aren't using it to stop multiple creatures from attacking as you are stopping Show and Tell stupidness. Occasionally it hits bigger shit like Tireless tracker or delve creatures, but that is really just a splash effect. The times you really cast Bridge is when you would otherwise just be dead. Bridge is needed bc otherwise you are just dead to Sneak and Show, and reanimator variants game one. That is really the only reason that it is in the main deck at this time. And in those match ups, once the monster is in play, attacking with the Copter isn't really an option.
@RiP-I love it. I think it's the strongest form of grave hate available. Without SDT, I think just using Crypt and recursion with Welder is a tad difficult. Again much like Bridge above, while it shuts off Welder, when you need to use it, you would otherwise be in serious trouble, either from preventing Eldrazi triggers or stopping a fuck ton of zombies. You would not be wrong running Crypt however and I think at some point it is a preference as there are pros and cons to each card. I know my sideboard plan will feature RiP extensively as it helps to give increased percentage points against a bunch of tough decks that other sideboard strategies miss. However with that, you are slightly weaker to fast reanimator lists. Like most things its a give and take.
About streaming, I may be open to it come next week sometime. I have never down it but would be game to try. It doesn't make much sense to do it till we have really finalized the list and I have figured out some of the lines and sequencing. I doubt anyone would like to listen to me think through lines, and then start swearing as I realized I fucked up. That and there are still lots of situations where I have no clue what I should be doing, so there is that....
Seth
…no matter how much you think you love somebody, you’ll step back when the pool of their blood edges up too close.
@crowe_1, all good points. I think that perhaps 18 creatures without counting Simians is too ambitious. The tension you identify between Bridge, Chandra and Copter is real, but I'd be inclined to say it's reconcilable given that the games in which you have any two of the three in play you can make things work in your favour. It's not ideal if you're unable to attack with Copter, but if you've had to play out Bridge it's likely because you would lose if you didn't, as Seth points out.
I just played a league with the following list:
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Smuggler's Copter
4 Grindstone
4 Painter's Servant
4 Imperial Recruiter
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Goblin Welder
4 Blood Moon
1 Magus of the Moon
4 Pyroblast
3 Enlightened Tutor
3 Lotus Petal
2 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Plateau
3 Mountain
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Arid Mesa
1 Great Furnace
Sideboard
4 Rest in Peace
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Viashino Heretic
1 Trinisphere
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Fiery Confluence
1 Pyroclasm
Unfortunately, I ended up with a disappointing 1-4 record. Here are some brief notes on each match, followed by some general thoughts.
1-2 against ANT: game 1 he was able to tear my hand apart with probe+therapy and combo’d before I could get much together, game 2 I combo’d him, game 3 I had a turn 2 combo hand but he had the therapy; I found another grindstone with enlightened tutor, but he had chain of vapor + fatal push and was able to combo a few turns later before I could assemble anything else
1-2 against Turbo Depths: lost game 1 to a quick marit, won game 2 with the combo, lost game 3 to a weird hand on his part, had a revoker in play naming Hexmage and then misplayed by not getting another revoker with recruiter. he eot decay’d the one in play, untapped and his three cards were exactly black source - hexmage - crop rotation for the win
0-2 against Tin Fins: game 1 mull to 4, lose to turn 1 griselbrand into labman-children of korlis combo, game 2 have a turn 3 kill but get killed by griselbrand on turn 2
0-2 against Sneak and Show: game 1, turn one blood moon but he has basics and show and tells a sneak attack into play and wins over two turns; game 2 turn one magus (after siding out moons), he forces, I play recruiter for revoker but he has another force, he then shows into sneak and has mana to activate, putting in griselbrand and then emrakul the next turn for the win
2-0 against Slivers: managed to assemble combo through force of will with the help of pyroblast both games, he wasn’t really putting me under much pressure
I think at least some of these losses can be chalked up to variance—I lost all but one of the dice rolls and was having to mulligan many hands, and went 9 turns in one game without drawing a single land. Also, I feel like fast combo decks are tricky for a deck with as little on-the-stack interaction as Shortcake. That said, I'm having a hard time thinking of decks I'd like to face.
With the exception of the last round, things just felt as though they weren't coming together well at all. A few of the games I lost were close, but many of them felt pretty unwinnable. I boarded into the RiP-Helm combo a few times, and managed to assemble it once only to have the RiP Abrupt Decay'ed. Given that RiP-Helm is weak to many of the same cards as Painter + Grindstone, I wonder if it's that useful to be able to board into it. When I wanted RiP as graveyard hate, coming down as late as turn 2 was a real liability. I didn't have the opportunity to cast it on turn 1 with a petal or SSG, but even with that as a possibility I worry that the loss in resources is too great to make up.
The most prevalent graveyard-based decks at the moment tend to be very quick out of the gates, and susceptible to one piece of targeted graveyard removal like Surgical or a one-shot effect like Crypt. I don't know which decks I'd want RiP against where Crypt wouldn't do a similar job. Yes, RiP is the more powerful effect, but ultimately we're aiming to win reasonably quickly so a one-shot effect that is cheaper and more flexible seems to me to be more appropriate.
I think that going forward I'd probably cut a Copter and be happy with 16 creatures. I liked having a Revoker maindeck, but going down to four blasts may well be a bit loose. (Incidentally, in decks with Bridge I'd probably aim to max out on Pyroblasts before playing Blasts. On the other hand, Cabal Therapy is everywhere, and getting multiples discarded is rough. Another toss up, I suppose.)
Enlightened Tutor was always clunky whenever I had it, either coming too late or being uncastable due to lack of white sources. I'm not sure if it was just the games I played, given the small sample size, but it's a card I'll be keeping a close eye on when I play with the deck in future. On the bright side, it's pretty good against discard, which can be problematic for the deck otherwise. Regarding the white cards in general, being stuck with them in hand repeatedly made me contemplate a basic Plains, although the idea doesn't fill me with joy.
Both Grim Lavamancer and Goblin Welder did very little, although this is again likely symptomatic of the matchups that I faced.
It doesn't feel particularly resilient at the moment—if you get a Blood Moon down against a deck that it's good against, you're in good shape as far as interaction goes, but otherwise you're stuck with a fragile combo and clunky lock pieces that are usually fairly temporary. Another blast probably helps, as might Spellskite, although Spellskite plays poorly with Copter, making me hesitant to play it.
It's probably worth dedicating a few more slots in the board to fast combo like Storm and Reanimator. Another Trinisphere, and/or some Thorn of Amethyst, as well as Tormod's Crypt in place of Rest in Peace and perhaps a couple of Surgical Extraction. I also think that Viashino Heretic, despite being situationally more powerful, is probably just too slow and I'll probably run Manic Vandal or Duergar Hedge-Mage in its place going forward.
Anyway, I'm hoping that my experience today was an anomaly rather than the norm and that 1-4 was a result of an unlucky combination of bad matchups and hands. Looking forward to hearing the results of other testing!
@ Jasper- Sucks about the win lose record for the league. You did face some match ups that are fringe so that is something to consider. I wanted to ask how many games were you able to get in with the deck before entering the league? The reason I ask this is that I have found that the mulliganing with the deck as changed a bit. That and the first turn sequencing is a little different now. Knowing when to deploy Copter vs Combo piece/tutor is something that I am still working out nearly 150 matches into the new deck. It's really fucking hard, so I definitely think repeated playing will help there.
I had been thinking about the number of Copters in the deck. In old Painter lists we always ran 3 SDT and so it is natural to try 3 Copter as it fills a similar role, at least in theory. As far as I can tell, we never tested 4 SDT in Painter, which looking back seems wrong, especially in 3 Welder lists. Even though we did well with only 3 copies of SDT, I am starting to think that we inherently we incorrectly building the deck. Unfortunately I know that number was essentially copied forward from lists dating back to at least January 2008. So i am open to the fact that we all sort of just assumed that was the number and carried that through year after year as a sacred cow. The reason this is important is that I think we need to remember to step away and look at the entire list. I do think that 4 Copters is the optimal number.
The issue with crewing is something else that I am working on. I have to say 16 creatures has felt really good and rewatching games I really never struggled to have a dude to crew with. Part of that is due to the casting costs of guys, as it is critical you hit the curve to sometimes deploy 2 creatures a turn to get around removal spells. I am working to get another creature in the list, but it has been really tough as the list is fairly tight at this point. My ideal number would be 17, but 16 main deck is ok. You do have to remember that games 2 and 3 that creature count often rises due to bringing in additional Canonist, Magus, Heretic/Vandal, and Jaya. So for games 2 and 3 you are probably running 18 creatures regularly, which is something to keep in mind. For me havin Bridge and EE in the main deck, and the outs they provide is worth cutting a dude game one in a random meta.
Hopefully some of you other guys are having some luck and thoughts with the updated list. I should have essentially my final list and sideboard done this week. At that point I will happily post it here in this thread, but I will then move all my discussion to the other thread. I really have nothing to add to the mono red lists at this time, but I will be happy to answer any questions or deck construction that others have for Shortcake moving forward.
Free Nedleeds.
Seth
…no matter how much you think you love somebody, you’ll step back when the pool of their blood edges up too close.
@ Seth- I played two or three matches before the league and goldfished a few times to see about mulliganing. I, perhaps wrongly, assumed that plenty of experience with the Shortcake of old would set me up fairly well. I completely agree that sequencing between Copter and combo pieces is very tricky, particularly if you have one combo piece in hand but not the other. In fact, I remember one game where I chose to play out Copter with a Servant in hand, and then topdecked the Grindstone. I think that ultimately playing Copter first was probably the right play, given that I had no tutor for Grindstone and was keen to find it as soon as possible, but I'm happy to be corrected on this.
It's funny you mention not running 4 SDT. In an ironic twist, just a few weeks before the ban I had actually decided to go up to four copies. It felt right (and very powerful) at the time, but the limited number of games I got to play with it mean that it's hard to draw conclusive evidence from that. Anyway, I suppose it's academic now, sadly. I do take your point that looking at the entire list is worthwhile, and am open to the possibility that four is the correct number of copters.
While it's true that sometimes you bring in more creatures, it just so happened that in many of the matches I played I was boarding out creatures. In those situations, it may right to cut a Copter as well.
In general, I ran some numbers and the probabilistic difference between 16, 17 and 18 creatures isn't that large. Your chances of having at least one creature in your first 8 cards (turn two on the play) is 93.07% with 16, 94.33% with 17 and 95.39% with 18 creatures respectively. It's worth noting that the differences obviously become more pronounced if you're looking for two creatures, assuming that the first will eat removal. Conversely, the probability of having at least one Smuggler's Copter in an opening hand with four copies is 39.95%, dropping to 31.54% with three copies. The chances of having two copters in your opener is only 6.32% even with four copies.
Although these numbers aren't actually all that useful, and I can't be bothered to work out more complex probabilities, they do give some idea. Let's assume that we're happy with 16 creatures as a number. The questions then become: How good is Copter actually? Do we really want to see Copter in as many games (blind matchups) as possible? The answer to this may well be yes, but it's worth thinking about which matchups it is too slow or too clunky against.
Do you have any thoughts about white sources and etutor (or other white spells) in conjunction with moon effects? Getting stuck without white mana but drawing white spells, particularly post sideboard, was always painful if not the cause of lost games.
I would also always play an Engineered Explosives and a Bridge in the maindeck in most metas. As you say, the value they provide is excellent against a whole host of troublesome cards.
I look forward to your final list and sideboard, and would be interested to hear any sideboarding notes or plans you have for various matchups. Having a new thread for Shortcake seems fair, particularly given that the first post of this thread is dead. Do you really think that the play pattern is so different from mono-red? Assuming a mono-red version with Copters, which is something I'd also like to try.
On a brighter note, after the league I played a couple of matches in the tournament practice room, winning 2-0 against UB Death's Shadow and 2-0 against RUG Delver, with a timely topdecked EE sealing the deal against RUG in game 2. That said, both these matches felt good. They didn't have sufficient interaction to cope with Blood Moon and the combo, and having random dorks around did enough to slow them down.
I do think 4 copters is good. I rarely have trouble activating them with 13 creatures (16 with darettis).
The deck worked quite well over the last 3 local tournaments I attended to. I think it’s partly due to the ability of this card to buy time, dig for cards, and sometimes win with damages, which is precisely what we need to improve the deck consistency.
For match-ups info:
~20 players 3rd with 3-1-1 (+ won top 8, lost in top 4)
won vs Grixis Delver, Punishing Maverick, Turbo Depths, Storm / ID vs Elves / lost vs Elves
~20 players 1st with 5-0
won vs Jund, Eldrazi, D&T, Miracles, 4c control
14 players 1st with 3-1 (+ won top 4 and top 2)
won vs Miracles, 4c control, BG control Depths, Grixis Delver, 4c control / lost to BG control Depths once because of a misplay by me.
Once I get some more reps in with a new-style list I might hop back into it. No point in streaming yet while making infinite misplays solely due to rust. It's been almost a year now since playing so having some type of list that shows promise is certainly exciting.
Strawberry Shortcake
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...erry-Shortcake
What a brainstorm do? Draw card and activate on draw effects fix hand, removing woods
#FreeNedleeds
In the 2 months leading up to the ban I was on 4 SDT, and I wish I had saved some data but I was absolutely killing it online, I had something like a 5-0 every other day. It got me the tickets to switch to show and tell after the ban.
Painter was just pretty well positioned on MTGO during the miracles era. I ended up grinding enough tickets to buy into 4c Loam. Minus the miracles matchup there were just a lot of BUG decks that were supposedly supposed to beat miracles, 4c Loam and obvious various flavors of delver.
Hi there guys.
I'm looking at the deck for the first time and going to proxy it out just to try it and see how it performs. It definitely looks spicy and fun to play.
I'm just wondering which version to wrap up: mono r or wr?
I'd prefer the second one because of the power of enlightening tutor, but I see the tension between moons and splashing one color.
What do you suggest?
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This mono-red list went 3-0 at a Hareruya daily. It's pretty odd, with two copies each of Treasure Map and Dire Fleet Daredevil, and a Hazoret in the Sideboard.
It also plays Walking Ballista, though, which is a card that I use in my mono blue build as a sideboard card against decks like Death and Taxes—it occurred to me that it's fetchable by Imperial Recruiter and therefore might be worth considering in Imperial Painter/Shortcake as well. Strikes me that it's not a totally unreasonable way to crew a Copter, either. The card eats x/1s for breakfast and is a scalable threat. Whether it actually warrants a spot when you have access to boardwipes like Pyroclasm for those kind of matchups is up for debate, but its tutorability does add value.
Glad to see the conversation is still going.
I have not been putting the effort in that some of you have over the last year but I have picked up the deck a number of times for 4-5 round event and always have done well.
My list is nothing special and hasn't changed since a year ago really. Tops simply became relics and a welder became a canonist.
I am constantly impressed with relic. The card doesn't do a significant amount for us - the odd etutor draw our bridge show and tell, or respond to sugicals. But man does it fuck with our opponents.
I can't say I'm impressed with the direction smuggler copter might take the deck. I wouldn't see myself ever playing it. Ballista, sure seems good. Maybe as a 1 of, although something thats weldable is always nice.
The odd painter list pops up here and there. I'd really have to test a list to determine if it's just not the blood moon effect over a 3-4 round event - which is what I suspect for some of these lists.
I hope with the cheap recruiters we will see some new brewing in this space. Hopefully we can help guide the evolution of the deck in the years to come.
McBain
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