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Thread: [Deck] Imperial Painter

  1. #81
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Quote Originally Posted by Malchar View Post
    I definitely agree, although blood moon has been pretty effective in my testing. It might be too optimistic, but if you resolve a moon and a revoker on lotus petal, it's almost impossible for them to win in a timely fashion. It also encourages them to go off with empty the warrens which turns on our ratchet bombs as another out. Note that without a moon effect, I agree that revoker should definitely hit lion's eye diamond as you say. The ideal sideboarding plan probably varies greatly depending on the specifics of their list such as whether or not they have basics or the specific contents of their burning wish sideboard.

    I should probably side out 2 more things so I can bring in those other blasts from the sideboard though. Would it be better to keep the moons on the outside chance that they are effective, or side out a lotus petal, simian spirit guide, or perhaps sensei's divining top?
    You might even want to shave a Grindstone or two, if you're dedicating to the control side of the match up. That would leave room for the off-chance Moon effects to stay in the main, and you side in your control bidness.

  2. #82
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    You might even want to shave a Grindstone or two, if you're dedicating to the control side of the match up. That would leave room for the off-chance Moon effects to stay in the main, and you side in your control bidness.
    Not a bad call against Storm. I have always kept the Stones in for the potential quick combo but we should prevent them from winning as a first priority. I'm going to test this when possible.

  3. #83
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    That's the idea. Since you're dedicating to control in the Storm matchup, leave the Stone to the topdeck and ensure the game goes long enough for you to find one and win from there. Jaya can get it done, and if you get Welder shenanigans going with Top it's only a matter of time before you see it. By the way, probably a dumb question, but can Spellskite interact with Tendrils?

  4. #84
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    I'm not sure about taking out the grindstones. In my testing, that was the only realistic win condition, and it's already kind of hard to find them quickly. I think I prefer taking out a lotus petal first and then a simian spirit guide if you need another slot. I'm willing to concede that they are the faster deck, so the one-time-use mana sources don't really make sense for us.

    I can perhaps see taking out one grindstone since you don't really want multiples. Assuming that they keep their hand disruption and bring in some artifact removal, it shouldn't matter because they ought to be focusing their hate on the painters rather than the grindstones since the painters make the blasts live. There's also the thorns for them to waste their disruption on.

  5. #85
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    And I'm hesitant to shave mana sources, as this deck can stumble hard with little filtering for its mana. Cutting one, maybe two stones still seems to be a good line of play.

  6. #86
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Please do not shave grindstones in the Storm match up. That actually may be the worst thing you could do. You could cheat on mana as you have to be aggressive on the mulligan. I almost always side out the moon on the draw against storm. Burnin wish is red and they only need one petal of crack LED for black and your moon is a waste. It is still an ok play on the play as you can slow down their cantrips or force them to go off without duress due to mana issues. The fact that your control element relies on two cards leaves you very vulnerable and it is not a reliable way to win. That and this deck is at it's best a shitty aggro deck. Without something like a second tuen Koth it is really hard to put the preassure on them through aggro means before they reload and go for combo two or another duress/silence effect. That is why you need the combo and more of them. This is why I have been stressing E tutor. We are a little more than a half turn slower than storm decks when you account for protection. The E tutor allows you to have a more consistent combo and still allows mana open to blast their important spell. The way to battle storm is with mild disruption (bc that's all we have) and a fast consistent combo and aggressive mulligans. Rarely will you be able to dick around with top and looting to draw into cards. Hope this helps.

    Seth
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  7. #87
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Fair points. I think all this conversation revolves around the fact that faster combo decks that use red aren't very favorable matchups, and we're willing to try anything to shore up those odds.

  8. #88
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    @jandax- I understand that. My point was thinking about cutting down on grindstones doesn't shore up that matchup at all. We can't play the control match up. You can control a turn or interrupt their cantrips but if you go the control root they will eventually beat you. Our clock is too slow against them. The best way to beat them is to either combo first or slow down their combo long enough to do yours. Using blasts correctly can buy you that turn or two to get your combo turn faster than theirs. Thorn does the same thing it is a permanent that buys you approx2-3 turns at best.

    Seth
    …no matter how much you think you love somebody, you’ll step back when the pool of their blood edges up too close.

  9. #89
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Cutting mana, especially fast mana, against Storm seems bad. First-turn Thorn of Amethyst (or Trinisphere) is THE IDEAL play against them unless you're playing Mindbreak Trap (for mono-red builds at least). And playing multiple Thorns is awesome, so you want mana.

    I'm not sold at all on taking out Grindstones, but they certainly are not the only win conditions against Storm. Dork beatdown works just fine. A Revoker under a couple of Thorns is probably your game, and so is Revoker + Servant and some Blasts, etc.

    The point about Moons not being at their best against Storm is a good one. They can play around even a turn 1 Moon fairly easily. That's why I've typically sided out a Moon or two before Grindstone, but it does seem possible that the extra potential disruption from Moon is worth it. I don't plan to be the combo deck most of the time in this matchup, even though it is nice to end the game asap if you can.

    It's not one of my favorite opponents but I have not had bad results against Storm Combo. The die roll seems to be the biggest factor to me.

  10. #90
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    This is the main logical problem that I run into against storm. Moons are generally the worst card against them, but they are far from being completely dead. In fact, the only realistic way to win by attacking is to completely lock them out of the game with a moon and revokers.

    However, I'm starting to think that some moons should just be sided out to make room for the extra red blasts.

  11. #91
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    I usually board the thorns in for the blood moons.. you'll want magus for the moon-beating, but thorns is easier for us to get around early game... Get painter online, counter all the OPs shot and swing/combo FTW ;)

  12. #92
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Alright time to end the storm discussion since people will board whatever they think is correct.

    To change the subject, who plans on going to Grand Prix Washington, D.C.?

  13. #93
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Top 4 split a tourney yesterday going 6-0-1 (12-1 in games) using my standard list found on the first page.

    Beat Lands, Junk, MUD, UR Delver, Stoneblade, and Affinity (lost game 1). I won't delve into details but will instead touch on my unique choices others seem to shy away from. Looting on the day was phenomenal as always, digging for lands when needed, going deeper in the deck, and pitching unneeded shit. Manic Vandal killed 2x Chalice on 1 and a Jitte. Martyr of Ashes singlehandedly saved my my top 8 match against Affinity. I had to mull to 5 on the play and drew a jaya that began controlling combat. My opponent dropped a revoker on jaya and a confidant which would have won him the game but my slowrolled martyr killed off both and freed up jaya for pinging duty again.

    My version is not graveyard dependent and operates perfectly fine even in the presence of hate. I would even say that running more welders provides insurance against grave hate and if people are boarding anything other than surgical then congrats, you have your opponent boarding suboptimally. My choices make the deck more synergistic and based on my results, I really think people should try it out and learn the welder lines of play that make the deck so crazy.

  14. #94
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    So OP list is the latest and most tested? Gonna give it a whirl

  15. #95
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    The short version of how the new legendary rules affect our deck (mostly for metamorph users):

    Metamorph is no longer a catch all answer to random legendary nonsense your opponent plays. Jitte becomes a much bigger hassle. It cuts off the removal aspect of metamorph against show and tell.

    Besides that, moon will always handle whatever crazy brews people have and painter is largely the same. Someone can try brewing with mox opal if they want but it seems most people have lowered chrome mox/petal counts for more consistency and that seems the most logical replacement spot in the deck.

  16. #96
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Please don't anyone try mox opal in the deck. It doesn't fit. Moon effects might be a little stronger and Jack now if we do get paired up its a race to who can keep their Jaya active;). Otherwise who gives a fuck.

    Seth
    …no matter how much you think you love somebody, you’ll step back when the pool of their blood edges up too close.

  17. #97

    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Well goodbye Metamorph once the rule sets in, you protected me from Jittes and Emrakul's for long enough.

  18. #98
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    So what's the new tech now, Runed Halo?

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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Hello People,

    I just got my Playset Recruiters and I am starting to build the deck now. :) I am not yet sure about a final list, but I will post it here as soon as I have decided what to play. What do you guys think about Duplicant as a tech against Emrakul? Granted it's really expensive, but with Show and Tell that's less of an issue. It can also be fetched with Recruiter.

  20. #100
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Jack and I have each taken a different approach to Eldrazi. While a second turn show and tell into an Eldrazi is really tough to beat, with the new legendary rules Wr don't have a valid way to really fight it beyond things like stingscourger, active Jaya, or ensnaring bridge. Drew, Jack, and myself all run 4 plus bridge effects and I highly recommend that for anyone. This goes for all versions of the deck.

    After this it becomes how can you win with the deck with all the Eldrazi. Bridge buys you plenty of time but attacking isn't an option. For me I have gone the three card combo route. My card of choice these days is Rest in Peace as the card has great splash damage against numerous decks in the field. It also let's you run a singleton Helm of OBEDIANCE for more combo pieces. I run a single bridge or peacekeeper main. This let's you slow roll their attack and then still keep your combo pieces live.

    The other win con is Koth. He allows you to win under bridge is really strong against esper and junk( not so much jund due to burn and haste). I currently am running none bec jund is really popular in the area and firebolt has proven better for me in that match up and other junk has largely disappeared due to people finally realizing Nic Fic blows donkey dicks.

    Seth
    …no matter how much you think you love somebody, you’ll step back when the pool of their blood edges up too close.

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