But if I have the combo in the field, I will loose if I mill myself, right?Originally Posted by Matsaya
That's the joke! You can get your combo (and the solution to Emrakul) in your graveyard where you have access to it with Welder. It will work, but you will lose the game before he does.
Again, you have to play a controlling game G1 and hope to get there with the beats. Ensnaring bridge is huge. Revoker on Sneak attack or Griselbrand. Blast his S&T. G2 and G3 you can use E. Tutor to grab RiP so you can combo safely.
Hehehehe, ok.. I have the cards to build the monored and the RW version.. I will play an important tournment septmeber 19, and I guess I'll play with monored version, so I will have no tutor for RIP or. Tormod's.. Do you think RW is more competitive? I still think mono version os better
Yeah, you can't do it at end of turn or you kill yourself. You have to have the resources to both mill yourself and then your opponent during your turn so they have to draw first. See my previous post for better explanation
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I think that it depends on who you ask. After playing both, I think the White version is more flexible and better in SB games, but the red version is much more straight forward. If you can ride Blood Moon in most games, Mono R might be a better choice.
E-Tutor gives you a chance to search up silver bullets in sideboard games and it can also help find your combo. However, you lose a moon effect (-1 Magus), you don't have a powerful alt win-con (Koth can easily be MD'd for mono-red where as Rw is a little more pressed for space) other than Jaya.
To summarize: Each deck has strengths and weaknesses. I think in an open meta, Rw is a better choice as it has a few more answers and ways to find those answers. Others may not agree with my views though.
It's a rough matchup, but you have a lot of tools to interact with sneak and show. Just this last sunday I got top 4 in an unsanctioned 37-man dual land tourney. My first opponent top 8 was sneak and show. I was undefeated going in as second place seed so I was on the play. I keep Ancient Tomb, Painter's Servant, Pyroblast, Pyroblast, Red Elemental Blast, Recruiter, Mountain game one. I know what he's on from the start so i go for painter turn one to try an prepare to win the turn 2 or 3 counter war over the show and tell. Surprisingly painter resolves. I pass turn to him and he drops tomb lotus petal and passes. So probably no show and tell, but maybe a sneak attack. He passes back to me, I draw a guide, drop my mountain, and pass back. He drops a sneak attack and a land. I attempt to REB, he forces, I pyroblast, he dazes. He passes turn back with no mana to activate the sneak attack, I draw a mountain, blast his sneak attack, and tutor for jaya and pass back. He draws and says go. I draw a revoker and play Jaya and pass back. He plays a Show and Tell dropping emrakul, I throw down a revoker naming sneak attack on the show and tell. He passes back. I Jayablast Emrakul and he's out of gas so I swing with beaters for a few turns for the win.
Game 2 I somehow managed to open with tormod's crypt and grindstone and then proceeded to topdeck a painter and combo on turn 3. I consider that just luck, generally game 2 I focus on trying to get bridge out with a welder to protect it, but sometimes you draw the 3 card combo. Game 2 is nice because you can board in as many yard exiles as you have, an extra blast, an extra bridge, trinisphere and canonist, and the matchup gets a lot better.
On to top 4 and I lost to burn in 2. Both games I activated grindstone and both games he had like 7 damage to kill me on his upkeep.
Thanks for your tips guys.. I use to play with DaT, a great deck either.
Why do you recommend RIP? Tormod's is an artifact and can be permuted with welder.. Isnt a better choise?
I would like to play with koth in MD.. He is really powerfull and give us another win con.. I will try to find some space for him and then i'll put an idea of a list, then you can give me your opinion.
RiP is nice against tarmo, tombstalker, deathrite shaman, Loam, ...
moreover, it is a alternate wincon with helm of obedience.
What do you think about this list?
Main deck (60 cartas)
3 City of Traitors
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Arid Mesa
4 Mountain
2 Plateau
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Goblin Welder
4 Imperial Recruiter
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Magus of the Moon
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Painter's Servant
4 Blood Moon
3 Pyroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Lotus Petal
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Lightning Bolt
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Grindstone
2 Enlightened Tutor
Sideboard (15 cartas)
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Manic Vandal
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Rest in Peace
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Shattering Spree
1 Koth of the Hammer
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Ensnaring Bridge
why just one Welder? The card is incredibly powerful.
You do not have to use it, I am just wondering why the number you included is low.
So... I don't have experience with the deck, but thinking about it, I concluded Welder isn't as important as the other cards I listed.
What would you take out to put more welders?
Lightning Bolts. Welder > Lightning Bolt in this deck.
Welder is a beast. If it sicks you have the option of milling yourself to find combo pieces, taking extra draws from top (among other fancy tricks), re-using things like Lotus Petal, re-using SB hate (Bridges, Tormod's Crypt, Spellbomb). If they do have removal, that is one less piece of removal they can use to deal with Painter. Additionally, we don't run many other 1-drops so it can be played on T1 without a Sol land.
And yes, Welder > Lightning Bolt
Except when lightning bolt is targeting welder :P
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Ok guys sorry for that!! hahaha
I think I have a NEED to kill, like Dexter Morgan, I have a Dark Passenger inside me.
Well, I can´t tell I'm confortable with this situation, play without something to kill imediatelly (reb and pyroblast needs painters servent).
Tomorrow I'll train with my friend without the bolts. Maybe I can take out the 2 bolts and put +1 welder and +1 great furnance, so I increase the potencial of the welders and dicreases the chances to mulligan.
What do you think? I'll just need modify my SB with this displacement.
Main deck (60 cartas)
3 City of Traitors
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Great Furnace
3 Arid Mesa
4 Mountain
2 Plateau
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Goblin Welder
4 Imperial Recruiter
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Magus of the Moon
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Painter's Servant
4 Blood Moon
3 Pyroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Lotus Petal
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Grindstone
2 Enlightened Tutor
SB
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Manic Vandal
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Rest in Peace
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Shattering Spree
1 Koth of the Hammer
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Trinisphere
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I'm proud with this deck!! It was really hard to complete it! There are few painters here in Brazil, but I will start the painting! =D
Quandary: Absolutely love the deck. Absolutely hate losing to Burn. It's freaking embarrassing. Playing Burn round after round is maddening. I can't help but think nobody should ever lose to that deck. What's a Painter to do?
Card for card decks like Burn and Pox are simply going to eat up this deck. I'd say mulligan aggresively to cards in the matchup that matter. And keep a positive outlook!
I play 4 leyline of sanctity in the board. I've really liked vs everything from discard to storm. Bonus is that it's nearly an auto win vs burn.
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I really don't understand why people hate so much losing to burn. There are much more frustrating things in legacy than having 6 burn spells thrown at your face. I say this as a painter player but also occasional burn player.
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