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Thread: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

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    [Primer/Deck] High Tide, version, Spiral Tide

    Updated September 2014!

    High Tide News: Congrats to Feline Longmore who made the top 8 on September-14th at SCG Atlanta with: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=72852

    Like non traditional kills? How about milling out your opponent instead of going for the life total, making them draw their entire library of cards, & juggling one of the most demanding combos in Legacy that you could play, sometimes casting dozens upon dozens of spells over & over in the process.

    1) Playing High Tide
    2) Successful Decklists
    3) Card Choices & Building a deck:
    3a) Maindeck
    3b) Sideboard
    4) To Candel or not to Candel
    Candelabra of Tawnos
    5) Price guide
    6) Awesome links!
    In relation to High Tide & Legacy.
    7) The previous High Tide thread: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ER-Spiral-Tide by egosum & special thanks
    8) 30 Match ups

    1) Playing High Tide: short version
    The basics of High Tide overall are fairly simple, unlike other combo decks that want to go off as fast as possible, you want to wait, getting as many islands into play & as many card draws as you can until that "last turn" before their lethal to go off. You want to wait because that means getting to more protection (Counters) & more Islands (Because of High Tide & how it works with Islands) Then when you finally "go off" you start with a High Tide, then use any card draw/untap effects to dig for more & produce mana, then finally cast Time Spiral. Then you'll get a new hand & basically repeat that process, picking up counterspell back up accordingly against opposing disruption, casting more High Tides, more untap effects, producing more mana, until finally instead of casting another Time Spiral, you're casting a Blue Sun's Zenith on yourself to draw a ton of cards, or against your opponent for more than their library to win, your other route of success is a lethal Brain Freeze after enough spells played, provided they can't kill you on their next upkeep, or they have something like Emrakul, the Aeons torn in their deck.

    Playing High Tide: long version
    1.) Before casting Time Spiral/Blue Sun's Zenith, try to go off with as much protection as possible
    a.) Before every Time Spiral/Blue Sun's Zenith on yourself to draw or opponent to win, pick up as many Counterspells along the way, if you have one last draw like a Ponder or Merchant Scroll, use it before you Time Spiral/Blue Sun's Zenith, to dig for more Counterspells, if you lose the Counter war, you'll lose the game.

    b.) Another way to protect yourself, is cutting off your opponent from the majority of their spells, or even all of them altogether. Whenever you get the chance against an opponent, get them to tap out as soon as possible. Use that Merchant scroll or Cunning Wish to net your Turnabout & set yourself up, then at the end of their turn before you're going to go off, cast it at your opponent, if it resolves, choose to tap all their lands, if it doesn't resolve, worst case scenario, you got a counterspell out of their hand, & you can try again later. While you're mid combo, set yourself up to get untapped Islands in play, working your way down to 4 mana in your pool, then cast Turnabout targeting your opponent, either drawing out another Counterspell or forcing them to tap for mana in response, if they do, declare your attack step, emptying their mana pool, allowing you to continue on with less resistance from them. Blue decks or not, I've even had opposing BUG decks use Flusterstorm against myself at the Open in Seattle, while another used Extirpate against myself at the Open in Las Vegas, but they can't do that once they're tapped out!

    2.) After you resolve a Time Spiral:
    a.) Casted a High Tide, & a Time Spiral? Got your new hand of 7? Ok, don't tap your lands or cast another High Tide, yet. You have mana floating? Don't tap your lands until you cast all available High Tides first. Secondly, if you're cutting it close on draw spells & risk fizzling out? Use that floating mana to draw some more cards first, if your new hand of 7 only nets you minimal card draw, you might cast your single Ponder first, if you draw into nothing, you'll at least have a High Tide in hand if you have to start all over again. So always keep in mind your availability to draw more cards before you cast that next High Tide.

    b.) After resolving Time Spiral, there are spells you'll almost always want to cast first: Brainstorm Ponder & Preordain, they are cheap (1 mana) are not likely to be countered by the opponent, & allow you to basically, pick the best of 3 & draw it, possibly giving you what you were looking to get without having to cast your Merchant Scroll or Cunning Wish right away.

    3.) Primary Cunning Wish priorities: Cunning Wish to Blue Sun's Zenith > Cunning Wish to Intuition > Cunning Wish to Meditate > Cunning Wish to Brain Freeze:
    a.) Cunning Wish to Blue Sun's Zenith your opponent for lethal
    b.) Cunning Wish to Blue Sun's Zenith yourself for a bunch of cards, if you can't lethal Blue Sun's Zenith your opponent
    c.) Cunning Wish to Intuition, when Blue Sun's Zenith costs too much, get Intuition, get Time Spirals, then cast it, netting new cards & untapping for more mana
    d.) Cunning Wish to Meditate + 1 cantrip. If you cannot afford the 12 mana cost of Cunning Wish > Intuition > Time Spiral, you can still Meditate for 4 cards, then see the next 3 with a cantrip, netting you at least the best 5 of the next 7
    e.) Cunning Wish to Brain Freeze. If you go the cheapest route, Cunning Wish to Meditate & will lack enough mana afterward to untap, then you'll fizzle. This is a scenario that can occur, when it does, check the number of spells cast, because you also have Brain Freeze, you might have resolved just enough spells to win right there, which is a much better alternative than fizzling.

    4.) Secondary Cunning Wish priorities:
    a.) Grabbing counterspells. Even if your opponent is tapped out, there are still free things like Force of Will, so whenever you're in combo, one of your secondary priorities is Cunning Wish > Pact of Negation when you're out of Counterspells. However, Cunning wish is an instant, so you don't have to commit to grabbing a counterspell until they play one against you & you're out, just make sure you leave the 3 mana open for it, or 4 if you suspect opposing Daze.

    b.) Cunning Wish to grab bounce spells. Whether it's Snap against Thalia, Guardian of Thraben so you can untap 2 Islands, a Wipe away against Counterbalance, or Rebuild against Affinity, Mud, Stax, or Death and Taxes with Ethersworn Canonist and an Aether Vial with 2 counters in play, grabbing bounce is a very important option to have against many decks.

    c.) Cunning Wish to grab graveyard hate Surgical Extraction, Ravenous Trap. This one is straightforward, eliminate all copies of an annoying card in a graveyard from their deck, or remove the graveyard altogether. Quoting Reuben Bresler directly from his Seattle open report he wrote: ...Surgical Extraction to surgically extract Surgical Extractions surgically.. In other words, you can even extract opposing Surgical Extractions!

    d.) Cunning Wish to grab combo pieces. Need your Turnabout to untap? Or Intuition to get to Time Spiral? You're a combo deck, & you need combo pieces to go off.

    5.) Universal sideboard possibilities against High Tide to keep in mind against ANY deck:
    a.) Surgical Extraction is essentially "free" to cast. Assume every single game 2 and 3, that your opponent has the option of Surgical Extraction from their sideboard, so always sideboard out a High Tide for those sideboard games, if they catch you off guard & extract your High Tide, you will want the option of being able to Cunning Wish for a High Tide.
    Having said that, luckily, that is about as powerful as Surgical Extraction gets against High Tide, because Cunning Wish & Time Spiral remove themselves from the game when resolved, they'll almost never hit the graveyard.
    b.) Mindbreak Trap is the other universal card that you might see brought in against you. At the Starcityopen in Los Angeles in December, a goblin player drew 2 Mindbreak Trap's against myself after a resolved Time Spiral, however along the way in all my cantrips, tutors & card draw, I picked up some Counterspells, never forgetting the possibility, so when he tried to use them I was able to counter them both.
    c.) Leyline of Sanctity Leyline of the Void Tormod's Crypt Relic of Progenitus & friends. The only reason I even note these strategies is because they do actually come up, but they are the weakest of the "potentially from any deck" scenarios & honestly, anyone that tries them against you is probably only doing so because they either don't realize how ineffective it is, or it's literally all they have for sideboarding against you & they're just trading out dead cards like Swords to Plowshares. None of these strategies prevent you from comboing at all. The artifacts are a 1 time use, the Leyline's can be bounced mid combo once you have enough mana & a tutor to burn, & all their "mass graveyard hate" will never remove enough cards from your deck, it will just "shrink it." At best, the % of draw spells in your deck as a whole might be a bit lower, that's about it.

    6.) Mulligans:
    Nobody likes to mulligan, but I absolutely HATE it, if I do, that hand has to be horrible! Luckily with all the 1 mana cantrips, even 1 land hands are commonly keepable depending on the rest of your hand. Here's all you need to start comboing off at a minimum:
    at least 3 Island in play and 1 untap effect, or 4 Island in play
    1 High Tide
    1 Time Spiral
    to go off with protection, at least 1 Force of Will or Flusterstorm, or more.
    The more of those cards you have in hand, the closer you are to start your combo, & if you have at least 1 land and cantrips to boot, the chance of drawing into more of what you need is only better. So whenever you mulligan, look at everything, & make sure the hand you're going to mulligan away is actually worth discarding & drawing a new random hand minus 1 card.
    The history of High Tide itself, goes as far back into Legacy as many other cards in the deck, including the Legacy format pillars Brainstorm & Force of Will.

    History:
    High Tide, Spring Tide, Solidarity (Reset High Tide), Combo winter! High Tide has a lot of history in Magic the Gathering that goes far back, but the current incarnation of High Tide as of today, in the format that is Legacy/type 1.5, started with this:
    December 20 2010 DCI Banned & Restricted List Announcement Effective Date: January 1 2011
    Legacy:
    Survival of the Fittest is banned
    Time Spiral is unbanned

    2) Successful Decklists: (Starcitygames Legacy Opens & other large player events from The Council since the unbanning of Time Spiral)
    2011:
    Jan-Apr High Tide, 1st wave
    13th place - Jacob Baugh SCG Kansas (193 players) Candels 1
    6th place - Lorenzo Fedeli - Cerro M MLL #5 (117 players)
    5th place - Lorenzo Fedeli - CerroMagg (MI) MLL #7 AFCT (106 players)
    1st place - Alix Hatfield SCG Edison (294 players) Candels 4
    9th place - Kyle Morin - SCG Edison (294 players) Candels 2
    3rd place - Jamie Cano - D-Day-IV Empoli (214 players) Candels 3
    22nd place - Gerry Thompson SCG Memphis (137 players) Candels 4
    16th place - Javi Rubio - GP Barcelona side event (196 players)
    1st place - Jesse Hatfield - SCG Atlanta (210 players) Candels 4
    3rd place - Alix Hatfield SCG Atlanta (210 players) Candels 4
    10th place - Ben Wienburg SCG Atlanta (210 players) Candels 4
    2nd place - Lorenzo Fedeli - Legnano MLL #8 (116 players)
    15th place - David Price SCG Boston (252 players) Candels 4
    13th place - Joshua Justice SCG Charlotte (211 players) Candels 4
    May-Jul May 13th Mental Misstep.
    9th place - Iñaki Puig Dollers - Bazaar Of Moxen V - Annecy France (633 players) Mental Missteps 3
    1st place - Carles Messegue - LCL Lliga Catalana de Legacy 4 Miag inGenio (100 players) Candels 3
    2nd place - German Vicioso - LCL Lliga Catalana de Legacy 4 Miag inGenio (100 players)
    2nd place - Javi Rubio - 6 LCL inGenio (120 players) Mental Missteps 3
    Oct-Dec September announcement Mental Misstep banned.
    4th place - Lorenzo Fedeli - Ovino_Sex Milano (390 players) Candels 2
    3rd place - Clement Denis - Last Chance Qualifier CdF (143 players)
    3rd place - Lorenzo Fedeli - MLL #4 Cardano al campo (VA) (104 players) Candels 3

    2012:
    Jan-Apr High Tide, 2nd wave
    3rd place - Andreas Dietz - Hanau Win a Lotus - Frankfurt Germany (247 players)
    9th place - Florian Zarges - Hanau Win a Lotus - Frankfurt Germany (247 players)
    9th place - Germán Vicioso - 1º Torneo Lliga Catalana (119 players)
    14th place - Germán Vicioso - 2º torneo Lliga Catalana (109 players)
    4th place - Sander Hendrickx - Belgian Eternal Weekend Legacy (104 players)
    2nd place - Eric Becker SCG Charlotte (153 players)
    4th place - John Rojas SCG Tampa (141 players) Candels 4
    4th place - Colin Chilbert - GP Indianapolis (1,214 players) Candels 3
    Day 1 undefeated - Michael Bernat - GP Indianapolis (1,214 players)
    5th place - Paco Benlloch - Melendians 2 (101 players)
    7th place - Alix Hatfield SCG Baltimore (264 players) Candels 3
    15th place - Jesse Hatfield SCG Baltimore (264 players) Candels 3
    7th place - Nathan Cardinell SCG Phoenix (137 players) Candels 3
    May-Aug
    19th place - Daniel Gillis SCG Columbus (258 players) Candels 3
    10th place - Feline Longmore SCG Seattle (187 players) Candels 4
    13th place - Casey Hanford SCG Kansas (209 players) Candels 2
    23rd place - Juan Mendez - 2012 Gen Con Legacy Championship (350 players)
    Sep-Dec High Tide, 3rd wave
    3rd place - Roberto Libanore - Tarmogeddon 6 Padova (210 players) Candels 2
    1st place - Michael Bernat SCG Indianapolis (204 players) Candels 3
    14th place - Jason Suire SCG New Orleans (91 players) Candels 3
    5th place - Jonathan Thatch SCG St Louis (162 players) Candels 3
    4th place - Michael Baker SCG Dallas (175 players) Candels 3
    8th place - Colin Chilbert SCG Dallas (175 players) Candels 3
    1st place - Feline Longmore SCG Seattle (164 players) Candels 4
    27th place - Michael Bernat SCG Invitational Los Angeles Legacy portion 7-1 or better (208 players) Candels 3
    2nd place - Michael Steinecke - End of Year Hanau (194 players)
    Special thanks to astormbrewing who did an analysis of 2012 High Tide decks based on lists noted from here

    2013:
    Jan-Mar
    32nd place - Christian Walton SCG Columbus (325 players) Candels 3
    7th place - Marcel Brigneti - LCL 2013 Enero (125 players) Candels 4
    14th place - Colin Chilbert SCG Dallas (212 players) Candels 3
    2nd place - Michael Tabler SCG Cincinnati (279 players) Candels 3
    4th place - Trapani Giulio - Tarmogeddon 7 (137 players) Candels 3
    Aug-Sep
    11th place - Feline Longmore SCG Minneapolis (302 players) Candels 4
    13th place - Aoyagi Motohiko - 晴れる屋レガシー杯 - トーナメントセンターオープン記念 (278 players)
    19th place - Garrett Young SCG Cincinnati (277 players) Candels 3
    8th place - Michele Giua - Legacy@Ovino8 (407 players)

    2014:
    9th place - Feline Longmore SCG Nashville (283 players) Candels 4
    32nd place - Feline Longmore SCG Seattle (320 players) Candels 4
    3rd place - Colin Chilbert SCG Dallas (308 players) Candels 3
    16th place - Feline Longmore SCG Detroit (225 players) Candels 4
    13th place - Feline Longmore SCG Indianapolis (346 players) Candels 4
    7th place - Feline Longmore SCG Providence (302 players) Candels 4
    14th place - Feline Longmore SCG Syracuse (230 players) Candels 4
    6th place - Feline Longmore SCG Atlanta (263 players) Candels 4

    "Pondering" what to run? This & Preordain are common staples too

    3) Card choices & Building a deck: Based on the above successful decklists, blue & purple colored notes are more traditional cards that are recommended, while brown colored notes are less traditional cards, or older tech, & either not required, not recommended, or both.

    3a) Maindeck:
    Combo pieces:
    High Tide Staple All maindecks (4) Namesake card of the deck, more resolved = more mana
    Time Spiral Staple All maindecks (4) All you want in 1 card, both draw & untapping

    Untap effects:
    Turnabout Staple All maindecks (3 main 1 side) Untap your lands, or tap your opponent to "fog" their creatures, or tap their lands to cut them off from their mana
    Candelabra of Tawnos Most maindecks (average 3) Untap effect that becomes more powerful with multiple in play & a Turnabout on your artifacts
    Cloud of faeries Fewer maindecks along with snap As a secondary in some non Candel lists (2-3 when ran)
    Mind over Matter Mostly older decklists 1st wave of High Tide. Deemed "win more" (average 1 of before discontinued)
    Palinchron Non traditional found in some lists that didn't run Candels for it's infinite as a 1 of

    Tutors:
    Merchant Scroll Staple All maindecks (4) A tutor for any instant in your deck, including High Tide itself, card draw, counterspells, & untap effects
    Cunning Wish Staple All maindecks (average 3) A tutor for sideboard cards from game 1, combo pieces, card draw, to utility like bounce, counterspells, & graveyard hate
    Intuition Mostly older maindecks 1st wave of High Tide, before Surgical Extraction. More common in sideboard (average 1 of when ran)

    Card Draw:
    Brainstorm Staple All maindecks (4) A pillar of the format, add 3 to hand, put the 2 weakest cards from hand on top, & shuffle away with a shuffle effect
    Ponder Staple All maindecks (4) Draw 3, pick the best, or shuffle it & draw from a new top deck
    Preordain Staple All maindecks (average 3) Scry 2 then draw the best of, or dig deeper, post spiral you can brainstorm 2 unwanted cards on top, & scry them away with a preordain
    Sensei's Divining Top Most maindecks Great against discard, with Fetchlands, to see cards 8/9/10 after every Spiral or shuffle effect
    Meditate Most maindecks More recent lists have gone lower on the number ran (average 1-2 main, 1 side) When you don't have enough mana to Spiral, getting to a Meditate & drawing 4, then using a cantrip like Brainstorm to draw 3 more, will still allow you to keep the best 5 of 7 in an attempt to refill the hand
    Gitaxian Probe Non traditional Though seen in some maindecks, 3rd wave of High Tide, as a 2 of
    Trade Routes Non traditional Seen in rogue maindecks as a 1 of

    Counters:
    Force of Will Staple All maindecks (4) A pillar of the format, keeps opposing disruption from hitting like counters, discard, annoying creatures, or opposing combo decks from killing you faster
    Flusterstorm Most maindecks (1-3 main, 1 side) Since most disruption will hit you before you try to combo (discard) or during (counterspells) this instant/sorcery targeting counter is usually a hard counter, & mid combo with enough spells played, it's always a hard counter. Also very difficult to stop since it can't just be counterspelled away traditionally
    Pact of Negation Most maindecks (average 1 main, rest side) 0 cast counterspell, perfect for just starting to combo off when mana is most vital
    Remand Fewer maindecks along with Brain Freeze as a secondary in some non candel lists (3-4 when ran)
    Spell Pierce Non traditional maindeck Usually in sideboard
    Counterspell Non traditional Seen in rogue maindecks

    Bounce:
    Snap Fewer maindecks along with Cloud of Faeries as a secondary in some non Candel lists (2-3 when ran)
    Wipe away Non traditional maindeck Usually in sideboard
    Repeal Non traditional maindeck Usually in sideboard

    Kill condition:
    Blue Sun's Zenith Most maindecks (average 1 main 1 side) With enough mana, Blue Sun yourself for a 1 sided Time Spiral of 7 cards or more, & of course, aim it at your opponents deck for the win when lethal
    Brain Freeze Fewer maindecks along with Remand as a secondary in some non candel lists (Usually in sideboard)
    Emrakul, the Aeons Torn Non traditional Seen in rogue maindecks, 1st wave of High Tide

    Lands:
    Island Staple All maindecks (average 12) At a minimum you will need 3 Islands in play to go off. 2 is extremely rare & not recommended anyway, but technically possible. 6 is the other extreme to look for when going off, because Time Spiral untaps up to 6 lands only. The most common in play however, is 3-4.
    Misty Rainforest Scalding Tarn Polluted Delta Flooded Strand Staple All maindecks (average 6 fetchlands) Brainstorm is the main reason for running fetchlands for it's shuffle effect.
    Choosing a card for the maindeck? This card is almost a blue Demonic Tutor in a deck running so many instants.

    3b) Sideboard:
    Untap effects:
    Turnabout Staple All sideboards (1 of) Wish for a tap/untap effect

    Tutors:
    Intuition Most sideboards (1 of) A key card to get to Time Spiral, Intuition for 3, keep 1. Works with any 3 & 4 of in deck

    Card draw:
    Meditate Most sideboards (1 of) If you can't Brain Freeze for lethal, & don't have enough to Wish>Intuition>Spiral because of lack of Spirals or mana, you can still Meditate for 4, cantrip for the best of the next 3, & still net a "new hand" that is the essentially, the best 5 of 7 to continue going off

    Counters:
    Pact of Negation Most sideboards (average 2-3) Both a wish target & a true sideboard card, bringing some in against heavier counterspell opponents
    Flusterstorm Multiple sideboards (average 1-2) Also a wish target counterspell, a hard counter once your opponent can't pay the mana, & can't be so easily countered back by traditional counterspells
    Spell Pierce Some sideboards Gives you options against non creature permanents when Flusterstorm won't hit a Planeswalker, Enchantment, or Artifact
    Counterbalance Some Sideboards Can come in against any deck where you want to draw out counter magic before the combo turn, or resolve to help protect the hand/combo before & as you're going off
    Mindbreak Trap Few sideboards
    Misdirection Few sideboards
    Hydroblast Few sideboards
    Disrupt Few sideboards
    Dispel Rogue sideboards
    Trickbind Rogue sideboards
    Counterspell Rogue sideboards

    Bounce:
    Wipe Away Most sideboards (average 1-2) Split second bounce, the best bounce against Counterbalance decks
    Echoing Truth Most sideboards (1 of) Often used against multiple opposing permanents of the same name, like Leyline of Sanctity as an example
    Snap Multiple sideboards (1 of) Great against problematic creatures like Thalia, Guardian of Thraben & Gaddock Teeg
    Repeal Multiple sideboards (average 2-3 when ran) Bounce that cantrips, at a minimum, pay 2 to bounce a tapped candel, draw a card, replay candel, & make more mana
    Rebuild Some sideboards (1) If not Rebuild, usually Recall. For things like Stax, Affinity, MUD, or even Death & Taxes with an Ethersworn Canonist in play & an Aether Vial with 2 counters
    Hurkyl's Recall Some sideboards (1) If not Recall, usually Rebuild
    Capsize Few sideboards (1 of when ran) Usually for it's go infinite with a Candelabra
    ~For the infinite mana ratio with Capsize:
    1 High Tides resolved - 7 Islands in play = infinite storm, but mana stays the same / 8 Islands in play means infinite mana
    2 High Tides resolved - 4 Islands in play means infinite mana
    3 High Tides resolved - 3 Islands in play means infinite mana
    4 High Tides resolved - 2 Islands in play means infinite mana
    Hibernation Few sideboards
    Chain of Vapor Rogue sideboards

    Kill condition:
    Blue Sun's Zenith Staple All sideboards (1) One of 2 kill conditions, that also acts as massive card draw, & since it shuffles back into the deck, you an Merchant Scroll for it after each use
    Brain Freeze Most sideboards (1) The other kill condition, provided the opponent doesn't have shuffle back in effects like Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or the ability to kill you on their next upkeep before their next draw step

    Graveyard hate:
    Surgical Extraction Multiple sideboards (1-2) Wishable graveyard hate against things like Reanimate that can also extract other problematic cards, like their Force of Will's as an example, or even their own Extractions
    Ravenous Trap Multiple sideboards (1) Wishable graveyard hate that works great especially against Dredge or Ad Nauseam Storm decks that utilize Past in Flames

    Removal:
    Dismember Rogue sideboards
    Slaughter Pact Rogue sideboards

    Other:
    Twincast Rogue sideboards
    Gigadrowse Rogue sideboards
    Mana short Rogue sideboards

    Non wish target sideboard cards:
    Defense Grid Some sideboards (2-3 when ran) Sometimes used against opposing counterspell decks
    Leyline of Sanctity Rogue sideboards

    Non wish target graveyard hate:
    Grafdigger's cage Some sideboards (2-3 when ran) Graveyard hate that can also work as a secondary against Natural Order & Green Sun's Zenith as examples, 1 Flusterstorm stops 1 spell, but 1 Grafdigger's Cage stops them all
    Tormod's Crypt Some sideboards (2-3 when ran) 0 cast graveyard hate that actually removes it their graveyard cards from the game
    Relic of Progenitus Rogue sideboards
    Choosing a card for the sideboard? Never forget those instants are wishable, giving you sideboard access from the 1st game.

    4) To Candel or not to Candel: Running Candelabra of Tawnos
    Arguments for running Candelabra of Tawnos:
    1) It can remain in play as an untap effect while Time Spiraling.
    2) A Candel in play, is 1 less draw spell in your deck, meaning each time you Time Spiral, though miniscule, the % of your decks draw spells as a whole is "slightly increased" in comparison to the Candel being somewhere in your deck, helping decrease the chance of you drawing 7 non draw spells & fizzling ever so slightly.
    3) Synergy with Turnabout. 1 Turnabout untaps your lands once, 1 Candel untaps your lands once, but once you have 2 or more Candels in play, each Turnabout for artifacts, means you're duplicating untap effects for each Candel in play past the first.
    4) Candels cost just 1 mana to cast, it's easier to get past taxing stuff like Daze & Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, & can even be put into play against those cards before your actual combo turn.
    5) Candel's untap effect still works against destroy effects like Abrupt Decay Disenchant, etc. Worst case scenario after you untap & it's destroyed, it just shuffles back in with your next Time Spiral.
    6) Candels sometimes acts as "bait", when an opponent burns a Counterspell on it, that's 1 less counter you have to work through, since you can still go off with just 4 Islands in play without any untap effects.
    7) With 3 Islands in play, & a Candel in play from a previous turn, it only costs 3 to untap your lands, meaning you will ideally have 7 mana before you cast Time Spiral, allowing you to cast a cantrip, save the single mana for a Flusterstorm, or save it for after Time Spiral resolving.
    8) When you sideboard in bounce against some decks it is never a dead card, worst case scenario, your maindeck bounce turns into a mana producer, returning a tapped Candel to your hand, then play it again.
    Quoting Di:
    9) In addition to Turnabout, running Candelabra provides the easiest avenue to cast a lethal BSZ (relevant in any case where Brain Freeze is a liability). On it's own, Turnabout requires you to have played a higher number of High Tides and/or require more lands, which could potentially delay or hinder your ability to win. Additionally, this also requires more effort because you have fewer methods of generating mana, and thus need to spend more on resources to find them. This in turn will put you in more situations that involve struggling to continue comboing because more mana needs to be used to continue than normal. The likelihood of you winning a game with both is much higher than if you only have access to one.
    10) Only running a single untap effect outside of Time Spiral limits the deck's flexibility against hate. If a build running only Turnabout has either High Tide or Turnabout hit by Surgical Extraction or the like, the odds of winning through it are much more difficult as opposed to a more diversified list. You obviously can still win with Brain Freeze, but generating the storm to make it lethal would be much harder to do so.
    11) Only running Turnabouts limits the amount of mana you can have post-Spiral, or limits the odds you open an untap effect post-Spiral. This can hinder your ability to continue comboing because you work harder to find an untap effect.
    12) The ability to preemptively play Candelabra or go off with fewer lands isn't so much an advantage as it is a luxury, as it does provide a buffer against aggressive decks where you may want it. I personally don't go off turn three very often, but I do go off with three lands more often than I'd like to. It just happens that you don't hit lands sometimes, and this is among the only cards to help generate an advantage in that position. Again, that speaks to improving the flexibility of the deck.
    13) The one mana you spend to cast it the turn you play it is often mitigated by the fact that the same candle has the potential to generate more mana on its own later in the game. It's true that extra mana spent can occasionally be an issue against taxing decks. However, it only costs one as opposed to four. This makes it much easier to resolve in the first place and get something out of against these very same decks, and also helps situations where High Tide is Dazed and you need to be able to cast a cheaper card to generate some mana.
    14) Turnabout can be Flusterstormed, Candelabra cannot. This has actually come up a couple times for me where it's been highly relevant, and given the popularity of Flusterstorm will only increase if combo continues to be popular, this can become a common scenario. Additionally but far less relevant, Turnabout can be Misdirected.
    15) A great luxury, but I do have players often boarding in cards to fight candles alone. If an opponent is keeping Abrupt Decay in their deck or boarding into something like Krosan Grip or Ancient Grudge, then it's doing a great job at clogging their hand with dead cards. I've won countless games where I went off and the opponent showed me a dead card in their hand used to fight Candelabra.
    16) It opens up play patterns, and allows you to play a different game because you have access to a lot more options with more mana. This could (in turn) place less emphasis on resolving something like Meditate to continue going, because you can easily have an excess of mana to just find BSZ and draw 20 cards or something of the like.

    Arguments against running Candelabra of Tawnos:
    1) The biggest & most obvious, is that they cost so much $$$, & can only be played in a very narrow line of decks for Legacy (High Tide, 12post). However, this is a purely economical argument.
    2) Candelabra of Tawnos is susceptible to Stifle effects.
    3) Candels are susceptible to Pithing Needle Null Rod Stony Silence etc, however these cards don't really stop you from comboing, & can rather easily be bounced when you get to the point of wanting to Blue Sun's Zenith for a ton of cards.
    Quoting Di:
    4) The "downside" of Candelabra against the likes of Abrupt Decay or Stifle are minor. Abrupt Decay will almost never be an issue because you aren't likely to play it prematurely against a deck that runs them. Stifle I guess, but the same argument could be said for a fetchland. But if you're losing a to a Stifle on a Candelabra, odds are you'd be losing to another counter on a different spell. Besides, Stifle comes from a single deck, not all builds run them, and based on my experience, Stifle is one of the most-boarded out cards. It's far less of an issue than people make it out to be. Otherwise, it does a fantastic job of negating Daze and Spell Pierce.
    One of Legacy's most expensive cards, in part making it a sometimes debated card in the deck. Most lists, though not all, run them.

    5) Price guide of more traditional High Tide cards: As of June 2013 (For the most current prices, click on the link of each card) (High-Mid-Low according to http://magiccards.info/ & http://magic.tcgplayer.com/all_magic_sets.asp)
    $50.00 or higher average:
    Candelabra of Tawnos $475.00 $349.99 $314.99
    Force of Will $99.95 $83.32 $69.00
    Polluted Delta $108.25 $91.45 $85.06
    Flooded Strand $82.88 $72.00 $59.00

    $20.00 to $50.00 average:
    Misty Rainforest $44.98 $37.94 $33.99
    Scalding Tarn $44.99 $38.00 $33.60
    Intuition $44.99 $34.62 $29.49

    $10.00 to $20.00 average:
    Time Spiral $28.79 $18.94 $15.86
    Pact of Negation $20.58 $16.51 $14.49
    Flusterstorm $18.12 $14.00 $11.25

    $5.00 to $10.00 average:
    Cunning Wish $6.94 $4.97 $3.49
    Meditate $16.03 $4.99 $3.25

    $2.00 to $5.00 average:
    Brain Freeze $3.06 $1.94 $1.15
    Surgical Extraction $5.99 $3.30 $2.66
    Turnabout $3.09 $2.21 $0.80

    $1.00 to $2.00 average:
    Merchant Scroll $2.05 $0.99 $0.45
    Brainstorm $2.34 $1.61 $1.09
    Hurkyl's Recall $3.09 $1.99 $1.39
    Defense Grid $2.19 $1.49 $0.75
    Grafdigger's Cage $3.08 $1.17 $0.36

    $1.00 or less average:
    High Tide $1.99 $0.75 $0.25
    Ponder $1.48 $0.93 $0.71
    Preordain $1.50 $0.45 $0.10
    Blue Sun's Zenith $1.29 $0.59 $0.35
    Spell Pierce $2.25 $0.94 $0.71
    Wipe Away $0.77 $0.37 $0.23
    Echoing truth $1.49 $0.71 $0.25
    Repeal $0.95 $0.21 $0.06
    Snap $1.64 $0.55 $0.36
    Rebuild $0.51 $0.30 $0.06
    Ravenous Trap $0.60 $0.16 $0.03
    Tormod's Crypt $1.02 $0.40 $0.14
    Island $228.95(Guru) $9.98(Unhinged) $6.71(Unglued) $6.11(Beta) $0.99(Zendikar) $0.03(Basic)


    6) Awesome Links: In relation to both High Tide & Legacy
    Price trends of singles:
    http://www.mtgprice.com/sets/Fallen_.../High_Tide_(1)

    High Tide articles/reports/etc:
    2013:
    http://starcitygames.com/events/cove..._vs_laure.html Feature Match, High Tide in the finals SCG Cincinnati (Michael Tabler)
    http://www.starcitygames.com/article...o-Problem.html Article with an emphasis for those candeless High Tides (Carsten Kotter)
    http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazin...gpden13/day2#7 Deck Tech from GP Denver (Di/Colin Chilbert)

    3rd wave, late 2012:
    http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=10871 Article by SCG Dallas top 8 (Di/Colin Chilbert)
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...lace-High-tide! Tournament report, SCG Seattle top 8 (Feline Longmore)
    http://starcitygames.com/events/cove...als_felin.html Feature match, High Tide in the finals SCG Seattle (Feline Longmore)
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ight=high+tide Tournament report, SCG St Louis top 8 (topef27/Jonathan Thatch)
    https://wizards.com/magic/magazine/A...aily/deck/1097 Article after the Michael Bernat SCG Indianapolis, 1st place High Tide finish (Conley Wood)
    http://starcitygames.com/events/cove...s_michael.html Feature match, High Tide in the finals SCG Indianapolis (Michael Bernat)
    2nd wave, early 2012:
    http://www.azmagicplayers.com/articl...-top-8-report/ Tournament report, SCG Phoenix top 8 (Nathan Cardinell)
    http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=10358 Article from GP Indianapolis top 8 (Di/Colin Chilbert)
    http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazin...nd12/welcome#4 Feature match, High Tide in the top 4 Grand Prix Indianapolis (Di/Colin Chilbert)
    http://www.starcitygames.com/events/..._andrew_s.html Feature match, High Tide in the finals SCG Charlotte (Eric Becker)

    Effects of Mental Misstep, mid-late 2011:
    http://www.starcitygames.com/article...High-Tide.html Article after the banning of Mental Misstep (Anwar Ahmad)
    1st wave, early 2011:
    http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...Recruiter.html Article during peak of High Tide's 1st wave (Drew Levin)
    http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...id_Thomas.html Feature match, High Tide in the finals SCG Atlanta (Jesse Hatfield)
    http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...li_Kassis.html Feature match, High Tide in the finals SCG Edison (Alix Hatfield)
    http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...ol_Rising.html Article after the unbanning of Time Spiral (Carsten Kotter)
    http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...ring_Tide.html Deck Tech from the 1st Spiral Tide deck to top 16 at the Open Series, January 2011 SCG Kansas (Jacob Baugh)
    http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...ral_Storm.html Article right at the unbanning of Time Spiral (Drew Levin)

    High Tide decklist sources:
    Starcitygames.com High Tide decklists starting Jan-2011
    http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/tip...&format=Legacy
    http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?b=7932 2012-13 decklists

    Legacy metagame:
    http://www.starcitygames.com/pages/decklists/
    http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/for...=Legacy&page=1
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...(started-2012)

    For Solidarity: Reset, instant speed High Tide
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...eck-Solidarity

    7) The Previous High Tide thread by egosum: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ER-Spiral-Tide
    Last edited by feline; 09-17-2014 at 11:32 AM. Reason: Update
    Primary legacy deck High Tide primer
    Past Standard Tooth & Nail(2005) Boros deck wins(06) Dragonstorm(07)
    Primers http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/member.php?33551 High Tide Belcher Zoo Pox Stax Reanimator Burn
    Decks/Prices
    Legacy http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24023
    Legacy under $500 http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25253
    Follow on Twitter @FelineLongmore

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    8) 30 Match ups: Based mostly on decks that have performed with some level of consistent, higher placings since Return to Ravnica Legacy)

    1.) RUG: (Disruption, Moderate-Heavy playtesting recommended, a more common match up)
    This isn't the most favorable match up, but it's not the most unfavorable either.
    Basic Game plan: Last as long as possible and get as many lands into play as you can before going off, always keep their next combat phase, possible burn, and threshold (Wild Mongoose) in mind, remember at any turn there's the possibility of them playing a Wasteland, hit their own land, play a burn or draw spell, Daze it, pay 1, and that's 4 cards into their graveyard! So if you're low on life make sure those 1/1's becoming 3/3's won't become lethal. Play around Daze when you can. Try to get a Candelabra of Tawnos into play in the turns before going to go off, if they don't have Stifle when you cast High Tide, you'll be able to use it to untap, which is important if you have to pay 1 additional to a Daze. Also tap out your opponent with Turnabout whenever you get the chance, worst case scenario, it'll draw out a Counterspell from their hand. Last round at the Open in Los Angeles, my opponent was tapped out as I started combo'ing off, and I learned they were holding Pyroblast and other counters in hand they couldn't cast not only when I started to combo, but also after the resolved Time Spiral. Another helpful hint, if they cast Daze against your High Tide and you have another High Tide in hand, cast it in response, if it resolves, you'll tap to pay 1 for the daze, but you'll already be tapping for 2.
    Sideboarding: Out -1 High Tide, -Any maindeck bounce / In +Pact of Negation.
    Sideboard game plan: Your goal is largely unchanged, in additon to the main strategy, expect them to bring in Pyroblast, Red Elemental Blast, possibly Surgical Extraction, and maybe something to go after your candles like Ancient Grudge. Wanting more counter's against you, they will likely go down on their burn, I've even had some RUG players admit they will cut out a Wasteland or 2.

    2.) U/W control Variants: (Disruption, Moderate-Heavy playtesting recommended, a more common match up)
    Counterbalance is one of the last permanents you want to see sitting across the table.
    Basic Game plan: They are a control deck, so you will be able to utilize time to get more Islands into play and more Counterspells into hand, but don't forget so will they. That means if you can go off early with enough protection then do it. If they're smart (and always play assuming they are), they will want as many Islands untapped against you at all times during your turn. If they at the end of your turn, tap Sensei's Divining Top, and cast Entreat the Angels, remedy this with Flusterstorm, if they expect it and leave some lands untapped, then draw out a Force of Will battle to increase the storm count, you can even save a Brainstorm using to increase the number of spells played. As far as trying to go off, do everything you can to stop Counterbalance from resolving, if it does resolve, then don't let Sensei's Divining Top. If that happens, get to a Wipe Away via Merchant Scroll or Cunning Wish so you can attempt to bounce away the Counterbalance at the end of their turn before you try going off. As a last resort, you can "bait" the Sensei's Divining Top to the top of their deck by playing anything that costs 1, if they tap and put it on top, cast Time Spiral in the hopes that after they shuffle, what's left on top doesnt have a converted mana cost of 1.
    Sideboarding: Out -1 High Tide -1 Candelabra / In +Pact of Negation, & if you have 2 Wipe away total, 1 main 1 sideboard.
    Sideboarding game plan: The will likely bring in Red Elemental Blast / Pyroblast, another Vendilion Clique, possibly Enlightened Tutor from their "toolbox" of a sideboard, and possibly Surgical Extraction. Your goal largely remains unchanged, if they attempt to cast Enlightened Tutor, no matter what they've added from their sideboard, remember Counterbalance plus Sensei's Divining Top is still their ultimate goal against you.

    3.) Esperblade: (Disruption, Moderate-Heavy playtesting recommended, a more common match up)
    Basic game plan: Their clock isn't fast, they will likely cast a Stoneforge Mystic, net a Batterskull, put it into play a turn later, then finally start attacking, even then you will likely have more turns to gather more protection if you feel it's necessary. They have discard for early disruption, but between Brainstorm, Flusterstorm and Force of Will, not to mention how resilient your deck is to recover between your tutors and card draw, unless they draw a ton of disrupation, they're only slowing you down and you'll still have time for recovery since their own kill condition will take a few combat steps.
    Sideboarding: Out -Any maindeck bounce, -1 High Tide -1 Candelabra / In +Pact of Negation, +Flusterstorm.
    Sideboarding game plan: They will likely bring in more disruption, be it more discard, Counterspells, or a combination of the two from their sideboard, as well as Sword of Feast and Famine and possibly Surgical Extraction. The biggest change to note, is Sword of Feast and Famine, that means if it starts swinging at you, you will have to discard a card every turn, and they will almost always have their lands untapped against you. If they set themselves up for a "soft lock" to make you discard a card every turn and you aren't able to go off before it starts, hold back playing a land once you have enough in play, and further Candelabra of Tawnos if you already have one in play so you're not discarding more vital counterspells.

    4.) BUG Decks: (Disruption, Moderate-heavy playtesting recommended, a more common match up)
    Ah the different variants of BUG.
    Basic game plan: However "different," BUG decks will still run, different variants, of the same disruption plan as a whole. Counters like, Counterspell, Force of Will and Daze, discard cards like Hymn to Tourach, Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize, and direct answers to permanants like Abrupt Decay. Anything else they do is just a kill condition, mana, or card draw. Defend against their early discard with Brainstorm and counters, Flusterstorm is great here, I've personally used it to counter turn 1 / 2 discard countless times, while turn 3 / 4 it's protection for when you start to combo off against their other plan, opposing Counterspells. For their Abrupt Decays, just hold Candelabra of Tawnos in hand until you're going to use it, it still doesn't stop it's untap effect. Even destroying it, Time Spiral puts it back in your deck, increasing your chance to draw into more untap effects just like Turnabout. The differences in BUG after that? BUG aggro will try to kill you faster, and BUG control will likely have more disruption.
    Sideboarding: Out -Any maindeck bounce, -1 High Tide, against slower BUG control builds, you can also -1 Candelabra / In +1 Blue Sun's Zenith (If you don't have one maindeck already), +Flusterstorm, +Pact of Negation.
    Sideboarding game plan: They're likely to bring in more disruption, anything from Vendilion Clique, more discard, or more counters. The 2 scariest cards that I have personally seen been brought in against me from some opposing BUG decks however, are Flusterstorm, and not Surgical Extraction, but Extirpate. This is one of the decks sometimes run them. The ultimate goal against this is to still cut them off from their mana with Turnabout. While the back up plan against Extirpate effects, is 1 High Tide in the sideboard. If they hit Cunning Wish, that is why the Blue Sun's Zenith is now in the main deck.

    5.) Jund: (Disruption, Moderate playtesting recommended, a more common match up)
    Basic game plan: Their disruption is what you have to worry about most, luckily however it is all opposing discard, not counters, so your Brainstorms will help in addition to your own counters. After that, it's getting to your lethal, before they get to theirs. Early game Flusterstorms are nice here against Thoughtseize's & Hymn to Tourach's.
    Sideboarding: Out -Any maindeck bounce, -1 High Tide / In +1 Blue Sun's Zenith (If you don't have one maindeck already), + Flusterstorm.
    Sideboarding game plan: Similar to game 1, except expect them to possible bring in Red Elemental Blasts & sometimes more discard from the sideboard, so scrolling for a single Pact of negation is an option you might want for those blasts when trying to go off and spending less mana doing the start of the combo.

    6.) Dredge: (Combo, Heavy disruption, Light-Moderate playtesting required, however a less common match up)
    This is one of the most unfavorable match up's you can go against, long story short, they dredge a few times, then the turn before you can even go off, they cast Cabal Therapy. Have some protection? Doesn't matter, they will sac creatures, and cast it again, and again, and again, ripping your hand apart and literally Cabal Therapying it away. All you can do is hope you can go off before they can, because if they do that, you will have an empty hand, and an incoming combat step the following turn that will be lethal. The only possible outs you have is to game 1 Cunning Wish for graveyard hate, or stall them enough to combo out before they swing with their zombie army, however wishing for hate or comboing requires you to get to your turn 3 at a minimum, and you might not even make it that far. Try to buy yourself as much time as possible by stopping their enablers to dredge, that being Careful Study, Faithless Looting and Putrid Imp.
    Sideboarding: Out -1 High Tide, -Any maindeck bounce / In +2 Grafdigger's Cage, or whatever your graveyard hate is, +Flusterstorm The game will be about the same as the first, attempt to slow them down by countering their dredge enablers, if you get the chance, Cunning Wish for a Surgical Extraction as to slow them down even more so you can combo out before they do, in the end, it's a race, and while their only disruption is Cabal Therapy, because it's dredge, they can have access to a playset of them very fast.

    7.) Maverick: (Disruption, Light-Moderate playtesting required)
    Very favorable game 1, and an incredible sideboard against you.
    Basic game plan: Game 1 should be favored, their disruption is Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Green Sun's Zenith for Gaddock Teeg if they're even main decking it as a one of (In which, always assume they are when casting the Green Sun), Qasali Pridemage, and a Mother of Runes to protect any of their hate bears. Also Fauna Shaman because of it's ability is a card to watchout for, but sometimes it's just too slow. Use your Flusterstorm's on Green Sun's Zenith, save Brainstorm to increase storm count when necessary. If they try waiting till turn 5 or later to cast Green Sun's Zenith for 3 while leaving 3 mana open, that's just too slow for your combo. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is a Force of Will priority, but if it makes it to the field, you're going to have to bounce it, if you have to play through it with your first few spells as you start to combo, get a Candelabra of Tawnos in play the turn before you're going to go off because it's going to cost 2 to cast, and you might not be able to afford that the following turn.
    Sideboarding: Out -1 High Tide, if you run cage's -1 Flusterstorm / +2 Grafdigger's Cage if you're running them.
    Sideboarding game plan: 1 Flusterstorm in hand, stops 1 Green Sun's Zenith, however, 1 Grafdigger's Cage in play, stops all Green Sun's Zenith. Flusterstorms are only going to counter their Green Sun's Zeniths, and in some builds, the 1 or 2 Enlightened Tutor they will bring in from the sideboard, that's about it. At the Open in Portland, a Maverick opponent admitted when I asked, that they were holding Green Sun's Zenith in hand post sideboard because of a resolved Grafdigger's Cage. As far as everything else goes, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is no longer the top Force of Will priority, but it's still high, #1 however, it's Ethersworn Canonist, that thing is literally the worst, it's the only one that stops you from comboing completely under any situation with it remaining in play. Other things to watch out for in addition to Ethersworn Canonist are Choke and Stony Silence from the Enlightened Tutor toolbox, though stony silence isn't really that devastating as you have other ways to untap. Aven Mindcensor, another Gaddock Teeg and Qasali Pridemage. Sometimes Choke literally does nothing if you just High Tide and use an untap effect, the Stony Silence can just be bounced, and it doesn't stop you from untapping everytime you Time Spiral or Turnabout, and the Aven Mindcensor will really only effect Merchant Scroll and fetchlands, so just play your fetchlands first. Also don't forget, counter Fauna Shaman early, but let it resolve if you're just going to combo off next turn.

    8.) Ad Nauseam Storm decks: (Combo, Disruption, Moderate playtesting recommended)
    Whether it's ANT or TES, the engine is the same, the specific differences will be whether or not they're running Silence or more discard spells. Their ultimate goal will be to Ad Nauseam, the key cards to get to it will be Burning Wish, Infernal Tutor, and depending on the state of the game Past in Flames. Round 2 of the Open in Seattle I went against this deck, and my goal was to get as many Counterspells into my hand as possible, especially Flusterstorm, one of our games he just couldn't go off because I was at one point holding 2 in my hand and he was out of disruption aka discard. The rule here, again, play the control deck! Stop them from going off, once you draw half of your combo, feel free to net the other half via a tutor and then go off, but until then, play the control deck. Remember you can't kill them if you tutor for a High Tide, pass the turn, and then they start to combo off. Also if they try to cast Past in Flames, you can Cunning Wish for graveyard hate and extract their Infernal Tutors in the graveyard, or nuke their graveyard all together with ravenous trap.
    Sideboarding: Out -Any maindeck bounce, -1 High Tide / In +Flusterstorm, +1 Pact of Negation. Luckily, their sideboard is similar to your own, it's netted with wish targets, so the true sideboard cards they have options to are limited. At worst, you'll see some more discard come in from the sideboard. Games 2 and 3 will likely be very similar to game 1, with the possible exception being if they just happened to be a list running Surgical Extractions in their sideboard, however, Ad Nauseam Storm is one of the 2 least likely decks that will actually have any, the other being belcher.

    9.) U/R Delver: (Disruption, Light-Moderate playtesting recommended)
    Somewhere between RUG and Burn, this deck exists.
    Basic game plan: Similarities to RUG in it's counters, Force of Will, Spell Pierce, Daze, and to burn in Price of Progress, Chain Lightning, and Goblin Guide. The actual burn cards themselves are the weakest, you have basic lands, Island and counters if you get low. Just bide your time like you do as normal, getting as many Islands into play as possible while taking combat phases, set yourself up along the way with your card draw and tutors for combo pieces and more counters, and attempt to go off accordingly, and tap them out with Turnabout as soon as possible, the only additional "trick" to note here, is that, just like against RUG, get a Candelabra of Tawnos into play a turn before you attempt to go off, making their taxing counters (Daze, Spell Pierce) weaker or even useless if you can just untap afterward with a High Tide resolved.
    Sideboarding: -1 High Tide, -Any maindeck bounce / +Pact of Negation
    Sideboarding game plan: They will bring in Red Elemental Blast, Pyroblast and possibly Surgical Extraction. (Flusterstorm was also in the sideboard of one of the two U/R Delver decks that made top 8 in Cincinnati in October, always remember any blue deck has access the possibility of sideboarding these.) Aside from the sideboard changes, in which it's just more disruption from your opponent, and more Counterspells for yourself, the game plan remains the same.

    10.) Show & Tell variants: Omnitell / Sneak & Show. (Combo, Disruption, Moderate-Heavy playtesting recommended, a more common match up)
    These decks are different because of 1 key thing, the enchantments: Sneak Attack and Omniscience.
    Basic Game plan against Sneak Attack: It costs 4. Do everything you can to prevent it from resolving, it will be the hardest card to stop because you cannot Flusterstorm it directly, and with 1 red mana available, their bomb comes out swinging, eliminating your permanents or drawing 7 or 14 cards for more Counterspells.
    Basic Gameplan against Omniscience: It costs 10, that's not being cast from hand anytime soon, so the card to look out for in it's place? Burning Wish. In which, the wish, is either a Show and Tell or an Overmaster in waiting, however, unlike Sneak Attack you still have access to Flusterstorm.
    Basic Gameplan against both Sneak Attack and Omnitell: Play the control deck, use your Merchant Scrolls to get more counters unless you're comboing off! A High Tide does nothing without Time Spiral and 'vise versa' and they do nothing to stop your opponent from going off. However you can use Counterspells to both defend (them going to combo) and attack (you going to combo). So don't tutor for a combo piece if it doesn't mean having the rest of the combo in hand. If they Show and Tell or Burning Wish early, your Flusterstorms will really shine here, hold Brainstorm accordingly if you need to increase storm count, even draw out a Force of Will battle which will also get one out of their hand. Always assume they're going to Show and Tell at any time. There are also moments of opportunity here, if there's a Show and Tell, Burning Wish (Omnitell), or Sneak Attack (Sneak and Show) in the graveyard, you might be able to buy yourself a ton of turns by casting Cunning Wish and getting Surgical Extraction, in worst case scenario, you'll still likely draw another Counterspell from their hand.
    Sideboarding: Out -1 High Tide, -Any maindeck bounce/ In +Flusterstorm, +Pact of Negation
    Sideboarding game plan: They will likely bring in Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast, and possibly Surgical Extraction and Defense Grids. If they cast a Defense Grid, can't combo until their next turn, and you can, then let it resolve. If they cast a Defense Grid and have enough to combo, you'll either have to counter it because of lack of mana available, or you can "risk it" and let it resolve, then pay 3 to Counterspell their Show and Tell afterward in the hopes that they have no back up. (Playing Defense Grid to draw out one of your Counterspells.)

    11.) Reanimator: (Combo, Disruption, Moderate playtesting recommended)
    If you actually run into someone still playing this (thank you Deathrite Shaman and friends) it is one of the less favorable match up's. Try to fight their disruption and their Reanimates with Flusterstorm and Force of Will, in addition to Brainstorm against their discard. Similar to fighting Show and Tell decks, play the control deck until you can go off, netting as many Counterspells along the way, remember if you Merchant Scroll for a High Tide, it means nothing without Time Spiral in hand, or against them trying to resolve a Reanimate next turn! Also never forget, they're playing reanimator, and you can Cunning Wish for Surgical Extraction from game 1, which is especially important since they will likely try to Reanimate Iona, Shield of Emeria.
    Sideboarding: Out -Any maindeck bounce and as always, that -1 High Tide. Add +Flusterstorm and +Pact of Negation and of course, bring in that graveyard hate. Like any deck running Swamps and Islands they will likely bring in more disruption through Counterspells and discard.

    12.) Belcher: (Combo, Light playtesting required)
    You will not likely know that you are playing against belcher, until after game 1 starts, meaning that if you have Force of Will in hand, you got lucky, if you don't, and you're on the draw with a Flusterstorm in hand, they're on the play and they turn 1 go off, there's nothing you can do, that is the pinnacle of game 1's, whether or not you have Force of Will
    Sideboarding: Out -1 High Tide / In +1 Flusterstorm. As noted earlier against Ad Nauseam storm, this is the other deck that is not likely to be running Surgical Extraction, however because of that 'just in case', switch 1 High Tide for 1 Flusterstorm because you want Flusterstorm against this deck. If you're on the play, feel free to mulligan to a Force of Will or a Flusterstorm, and of course, at least 1 Island. On the draw, you will want to be a little more aggressive getting to Force of Will. If you got lucky game 1 and won, all you have to do is win one of the 2 sideboard games, and you have the ultimate weapon against a combo deck like belcher that is all aggression and no defense.

    13.) Elves: (Combo, Light-Moderate playtesting recommended)
    This matchup should also be in your favor, they have no access to blue to protect their Glimpse of Nature which is a key card to counter, key cards number 2 & 3 would be Natural Order, or a Green Sun's Zenith for high amounts of mana, usually to get Regal Force. In the end, this match is a race and you are setup with protection that also allows you to disrupt their attempt at their combo. Also watch out for Green Sun's Zenith into Viridian Shaman against your Candelabra of Tawnos. Use your Flusterstorm's early as once they will have out multiples of Elves, they become significantly weaker, making them pay 2 or 3 to resolve their Glimpse of Nature can still cause them to stall out if they don't have enough to continue properly with their engine.
    Sideboarding: Out -1 High Tide, / In +1 Flusterstorm, if you are running Cages, against lists run Natural Order & Green Sun's Zenith, +2 Cages instead of Flusterstorm. Things they might bring in against you are Thorn of Amethyst, Gaddock Teeg as a Green Sun's Zenith target, and possible something to disrupt your Candelabra of Tawnos. Largely the gameplay will remain the same, except you will also need to Force of Will Thorn of Amethyst as a priority in addition to Glimpse of Nature.

    14.) Merfolk: (Disruption, Moderate playtesting recommended)
    This is another match up that can be trying, it depends whether or not they get enough disruption, that in which will be Force of Will, Daze and Cursecatcher. Waiting as long as possible to get the most Islands into play is the aim, but against this deck especially you have to really watch their board. An Aether Vial in play means they can at end of turn put in another lord, then on their turn they put in another lord, then they attack with their creatures, and decide to activate their Mutavault, swinging for almost lethal damage when a turn before, they had out a much less threatening board. As for starting to combo, because they run taxing counters (Daze and Cursecatcher) get a Candelabra of Tawnos into play a turn before starting to combo if you can, to make that strategy weaker or even useless against you.
    Sideboarding: Out -1 High Tide, -Any maindeck bounce / In +Pact of Negation. The ultimate goal remains largely unchanged, protect your combo with as many counters as possible, get as many Islands into play as you can by taking a few combat steps, then attempt to combo off accordingly through their disruption.

    15.) Goblins: (Light playtesting required)
    It's a race to see who gets to their lethal first.
    Basic game plan: Game 1 should be favored in your win especially, priorities should be to counter early Aether Vials and turn 1 Goblin Lackey without the assistance of Cavern of Souls, and counter Goblin Piledriver whenever possible if you're going to be taking a combat phase with it swinging because of Goblin Warchiefs haste, or having to wait an additional turn to try and combo. Beyond that it is just a race to see who gets to their lethal first, and never forget that being at 17 on turn 3, can still mean taking lethal damage on turn 4 when they vial in a warchief, then dump a bunch of goblins from hand and swing for that much, goblins is an explosive deck.
    Sideboarding: Out -1 High Tide, / In +1 Pact of Negation, if you suspect Pyrostatic Pillar -or- Thorn of Amnythest, 1 maindeck & 1 sideboard Wipe Away's
    Sideboarding game plan: I've seen goblin decks bring in everything from Relic of Progenitus to Thorn of Amethyst. But the cards that will almost always come in against you at a minimum, are Red Elemental Blast, Pyroblast, and sometimes Mindbreak Trap or Surgical Extraction. All of these can be treated with Counterspells, so being able to tutor for a 1 of "free to cast" Pact of Negation is a nice option. If they try the Relic of Progenitus / Tormod's Crypt route, that's fine, any deck that brings in those or even Leyline of the Void, sure you're lose some cards but they're not going to hit everything. In all my games, I have never even come close to losing because of the "remove my graveyard from the game" strategy. Even against Leyline of the Void you just stop while you combo on, grab a Wipe Away, bounce it, and continue. If you suspect Pyrostatic Pillar / Thorn of Amnythest, Force of will's and Wipe away's help the most with those.

    16.) Zombies, Zombardment, Walking Dead, etc: (Disruption, Light-Moderate playtesting recommended, however a less common match up)
    Sam Black must be proud, I think he's had more top 8's at the Open Series with this deck, than all of the other's combined, and even though it's a less common deck to run into, it's one of the decks to have 2 or more top 8's since Return to Ravnica Legacy.
    Basic game plan: Their disruption Tidehollow Sculler, Cabal Therapy and Thoughtseize. Counter their early discard with Flusterstorm early since, all their disruption costs 1 or is a creature, also Tidehollow Sculler is both disruption and 2 combat damage a turn, but don't forget you have access to Snap to get your card back, so judge accordingly whether to Force of Will them vs Thoughtseize. The toughest disruption is Cabal Therapy, sac a creature, recast Cabal Therapy so save your Brainstorm for those, if you get lucky you can "next level" them, and keep in hand what they think you'd put back on top, but it's a risk, and since it's not a 100% guarantee, it's usually not a risk worth taking, so put your vital cards back on top of your deck! After that, they are just an aggro deck and it's a race!
    Sideboarding: Out -1 High Tide, / if you run cages as your graveyard hate, In +2 Grafdigger's Cage to prevent Cabal Therapies from hitting twice!
    Sideboarding game plan: Most importantly, the cages will weaken their Cabal Therapys, and tricks with Goblin Bombardment where they swing, sac, and recast Gravecrawler or put Bloodghast back into play through -landfall-, slowing their clock down in addition to weakening their therapies. As with any deck, assume Surgical Extraction will also come in against you and Counterspell accordingly. Beyond the changes, the battle plan is still the same, you're both racing each other for lethal first.

    17.) 12post: (Light playtesting required, however a less common match up)
    Basic game plan: You're fighting a ramp deck with a combo element (they also run Show and Tell), so counter accordingly, use Flusterstorm's whenever they're optimal because each turn they will have access to more & more mana. Aside from Show and Tell, they have similar goals at first as you, take the first couple turns setting up by getting lands into play. When they finally attempt to "go off" however, that is where things will differ, they will simply just cast a "bomb" from their hand, the only ones that will interact with you are the Eldrazi favorites Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (extra turn when cast, then + Annihilator 6 + 15 damage) & Ulamog, the Infinite Eye (destroy permanent when cast, then if a following turn, Annihilator 4 + 10 damage)
    Sideboarding: -1 High Tide just in case they have Extractions, aside from that, make sure you have maindeck & sideboard bounce access.
    Sideboarding game plan: They will likely bring in Chalice of the Void & possibly even Flusterstorm based on the list that got 1st in San Diego. Watch out for opposing Flusterstorms, you can not counter it back traditionally like other counters. If you want to be absolutely sure that you're safe, attempt to tap them out with a Turnabout the turn before you're about to go off. At a minimum drawing one out of their hand. If you suspect a Flusterstorm mid combo, try not to cast your most vital spells without enough mana until you can tap them out, declare the attack step to empty their mana pool, then continue accordingly.

    18.) Junk/The Rock: (Disruption, Light-Moderate playtesting recommended)
    Their disruption is really only in discard and permanent removal in Abrupt Decay, Maelstrom Pulse and sometimes Vindicate, also don't forget a Green Sun's Zenith for a possible Gaddock Teeg. So just hold your Candelabra of Tawnos in hand until you're ready to go off if you expect them to destroy them. As far as their discard goes, you have Brainstorm, Flusterstorm and Force of Will, so use them accordingly.
    Sideboarding: Out -1 High Tide, / In +Flusterstorm. Even though Pact of Negation will really only counter (unless you have 5 Island and play and can afford to take another combat step) their Surgical Extraction as you combo, because BUG and Junk/The Rock/Green White Black decks will sometimes run Extirpate, if their disruption hits your Cunning Wish, you will need Blue Sun's Zenith to be in the maindeck. Other things they might bring in against you are more discard Hymn to Tourach, Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek, and a Gaddock Teeg as a Green Sun's Zenith target if they aren't maindecking one already.

    19.) Death & Taxes: (Disruption, Light-Moderate playtesting recommended, however a less common match up)
    This matchup should be another in your favor, however they still have stuff to watchout for, mainly Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Mother of Runes to attempt to protect it, Phyrexian Revoker to slow down your Candelabra of Tawnos, and Mangara of Corondor later game to start removing your lands from the game with Karakas. Most of their disruption however is just a little too slow, or doesn't do enough, so the priority really is just Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, answering it with Force of Will and Wipe Away/snap. One trick to watch out for later game is if they have a Mother of Runes in play and a Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, if they suspect Wipe Away they will on their upkeep give it protection from blue before you get priority, then if you bounce it, they will replay it, so you'll have to either do that and then counter it, or wait to bounce it on your own turn, if they give it protection from blue on your upkeep when they get priority, if you've set yourself up for you combo turn, you can High Tide which will cost 2, then tap your remaining Island in play to untap via a Candelabra of Tawnos that you put into play a previous turn, then cast Wipe Away on the Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, having enough remaining Island untapped that you can still tap for 6 to cast Time Spiral during your main step, it is the same trick that Maverick will sometimes try to use against you.
    Sideboarding: Out -1 High Tide / have maindeck & sideboard bounce available. They will likely bring in Ethersworn Canonist, and just in case they are using Surgical Extraction, you have that 1 High Tide in the sideboard. The gameplan largely remains the same, except Ethersworn Canonist is now the priority to counter, followed by Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. If they resolve an Ethersworn, they can still cast more, but if they resolve a Thalia, it's legendary, so there will only ever be 1, and you can just bounce it.

    20.) High Tide: The Mirror Match! (Playtesting recommended, however a less common match up)
    I must say, it's awesome to be addressing this deck on the list, luckily though, a mirror match is very unlikely. If it happens however:
    Basic game plan: Game 1 could be the only game that matters, you might not even get to a game 3. The biggest thing to remember in the mirror match, is that, whoever's turn it is has access to their sorceries, while the other player does not, so you need to be in a position to combo off before they do. You might even be able to stall them out with Flusterstorm and Force of Will if you're lucky if they attempt to combo out first. Also, if 1 player starts going off, the High Tide player who is waiting will still have access to Cunning Wish into Brain Freeze at any time until they are tapped out, so the whole match could literally come down to an incredible Counterspell war over resolving Turnabout, remember once a certain number of spells are played, Brain Freeze becomes a lethal possiblity everytime you go to draw a card.
    Sideboarding: Out -Any maindeck bounce, -1 High Tide, can also -1 Candelabra since it's likely to be a slow, long, grindy game like any mirror match / In +1 Flusterstorm, +Pact of Negation
    Sideboarding game plan: Your goal is still the same, start comboing out before they do, but be careful of opposing Flusterstorms, if your opponent is running them to, then don't forget the storm count and mana available every time you cast Time Spiral.

    21.) U/G Enchantress: (Combo, Light playtesting required, however a less common match up)
    Another deck to have 2 or more top 8 placing at the Open Series since Return to Ravnica Legacy. Another one of the more favorable matchups, just Counterspell their engine that is Argothian Enchantress and Enchantress's Presence, or Green Sun's Zenith which can get to Enchantress. After that, most of their enchantments are not going to interact with you, save for their 2 of Words of Wind. Your ultimate goal against them, is alot more effective than their ultimate goal against you.
    Sideboarding: Out -1 High Tide, -1 Flusterstorm / if you're running cages, In +2 Grafdigger's Cage. Green Sun's Zenith is practically the only thing you'd counter with Flusterstorm, and you have plenty of counters and ways to get to them for their opposing Force of Will they will bring in from the sideboard, but again, other than the addition to Force of Will, they will have little interaction with you.

    22.) Aggroloam: (Light disruption, Light playtesting required, however a less common match up)
    Basic game plan: Routes to kill you, swing with creatures, secondary, ditch lands to Seismic Assault, refill with Life from the Loam, repeat until dead. Conclusion, your clock is faster than their clock. Their disruption might be Liliana of the Veil and "some" discard, but most Aggro Loam lists are not too well equipped with answering spells directly, they mainly focus on any potential permanents that can hit the field, with things like [cards]Maelstrom Pulse[cards], the burn from discarding a land to assault, Engineered Explosives, stuff that really does little to prevent you from comboing off.
    Sideboarding: -1 High Tide, -any maindeck bounce. +1 Flusterstorm.
    Sideboarding game plan: They will either bring in some discard, or Red Elemental Blasts/Pyroblasts. Largely though it should still remain a favorable match up because their disruption isn't as heavy as most other decks, just use brainstorm against their discard, save counters for their blasts, and watchout if you're getting low on cards in hand and they play a Liliana of the Veil. Comboing fast enough traditionally however, it shouldn't be an issue.

    23.) Deadguyale: (Disruption, medium playtesting recommended, however a less common match up)
    Basic game plan: This deck is basically a disruption aggro deck, if they get alot of disruption, it can slow you down, but if they don't hit enough you can still combo accordingly, also remember to save those Brainstorms for their opposing discard spells. After that, they might try creatures like Tidehollow Sculler, which can be bounced mid combo for a "free card back to your hand" that you might actually benefit from after a resolved Time Spiral. Aven Mindcensor will come down after you've dropped your 1st land drops, so use the fetchlands early so they don't get a "freebie" on your land drops. Other than that, all it does is affect Merchant Scroll
    Sideboarding: -1 High Tide, have access to maindeck & sideboard bounce for your tutors because of some of their hate bears & after sideboarding, possibly Ethersworn Canonist.
    Sideboarding game plan: This is one deck that also has potential to sideboard in Extirpate so also make sure you have a Blue Sun's Zenith maindeck if you don't run it main already, by sideboarding it into the maindeck, incase they discard your wishes, then Extirpate them with split second. Aside from that, make sure you can answer Ethersworn Canonist whether it's bounce before you combo or countering it, that thing is still one of the worst hate bears you can see and it's a priority that literally locks you out till you answer it if it hits play. Aside from their disruption, they will be turning guys sideways for their lethal to kill you, same as game 1.

    24.) Mono Blue Aggro/Tempo: (Disruption, Moderate playtesting recommended, however a less common match up)
    With this strategy having at least 2 top 8's at the Open Series since Return to Ravnica, I have to note it, with anything that has more than 1 top 8 placing in a given time frame, that shows some level of consistency. Though this is probably one of the rarer decks on the list, but I still took a look over the list and actually play tested against it, & if you're serious about play testing against literally Everything! This is a match up to take seriously. Chalice of the Void resolving at 1 cuts you out of half your deck, and your namesake card, High Tide. While their Force of Will, Daze, Phyrexian Revoker, Spellstutter Sprite, and Vendilion Clique that is half of their non land spells that are disruption. Against Stax, their clock is slow, so you can wait, at end of turn Rebuild and then go off, but you are against an aggro deck, so if they cast Chalice of the Void it is much more important to Counterspell it, at worst, they will burn a counter of their own trying to defend it. The other Force of Will priority if you're holding a vital combo piece in hand, is Vendilion Clique. Try to get to the point of being ready to combo, then at end of turn Turnabout them out before your next turn, drawing out a counter, or cutting them off from casting those Spellstutter Sprites.
    Sideboarding: -1 High Tide / +Pact of Negation. If 2 Wipe Away, 1 maindeck 1 sideboard in case you have to bounce a Chalice of the Void at 1 that gets past your counters. If you suspect any deck of running Flusterstorm in their sideboard, this is one. (If you note the 2 decklists that have placed top 8 since October 1st 2012, both ran them) All you have to do is be aware and play around them, until you can cut them off of their mana by Turnabouting them.

    25.) Zoo: (Light playtesting required, however a less common match up)
    Basic game plan: If you actually run into someone playing this deck, it's got fast creatures & burn, similar to fighting a mono red burn deck itself, except that it can have a huge focus on tons of converted mana cost 1 drops, their disruption is very little however, one of the reasons the deck itself has fallen out of favor, it's fast, it's consistent, but it just doesn't do enough overall for being a higher tier Legacy deck right now. High Tide being a good example as to why, because this match is basically a race, and you will likely kill them before they kill you because they will be using the combat step as their primary win condition, backed up by burn, & as with most strategies of this nature, it's a favorable match up for High Tide, especially since their disruption is virtually null save for maybe a Qasali Pridemage or a Gaddock Teeg, which themselves are not effective enough, after that, "maybe" Thalia, Guardian of Thraben depending on the list & pilot playing it.
    Sideboarding: -1 High Tide, have maindeck & sideboard bounce access post sideboard games.
    Sideboarding game plan: They might bring in more Gaddock Teeg, and while it's not devastating, you still can't cast Time Spiral or Blue Sun's Zenith with that in play, so it will eventually need to be bounced. Aside from that, expect them to bring in the same possibly universal sideboard cards as anyone else with Surgical Extraction & Mindbreak trap as well as more expected hate from the colors of this aggro deck like Ethersworn Canonist & Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast.

    26.) Painters Servant: (Combo, Moderate playtesting recommended, however a less common match up)
    Basic game plan: Their goal is Painter's Servant + Grindstone to kill you, however, their deck is likely setup to really abuse Painter's Servant, so don't be surprised by game 1 Pyroblast & Red Elemental Blast. The main difference between builds is that if it's mono red, it has Imperial Recruiter and if it's U/R, it has Trinket Mage but the priority remains the same, they are tutors disguised as creatures for other parts of their deck, including combo pieces. Other potential cards to watch out for are Goblin Welder, if they cast that early, they can at any time sac an artifact in play for one in the graveyard, including any combo pieces you countered. Other lists will be more of a "stompy" list that run Magus of the Moon / Blood Moon, so just make sure you drop your fetchlands from hand first before Islands.
    Sideboarding: -1 High Tide, +1 Pact of Negation for a Merchant Scroll'able, free counter against opposing Blasts.
    Sideboarding game plan: They will likely bring in more Red Elemental Blasts / Pyroblasts in addition to possibly maindecking some already. They may also bring in Thorn of Amnythest, Chalice is less likely on account of Grindstone & blasts costing 1, & servant costing 2. As long as they don't get both combo pieces into play you should be fine, & even if they do get both pieces into play somehow early, it still costs 3 to activate Grindstone, so you might even get another turn, allowing you to bounce their Painter's Servant to buy another turn. As for Blue lists, watch out for opposing countermagic in addition to the Red Blasts.

    27.) Lands: (Light playtesting required, however a less common match up)
    Basic game plan: Another deck that is a long time favorite for some players, but a very rogue strategy right now, is Lands, though whenever the format slows down, the deck seems to "pop out of nowhere" and sneak in a top finish once in a while. Luckily however, that might work for Lands against the format, but it won't work so well for Lands against High Tide. You are basically fighting a prison deck that wants to control non basic lands (through recurring Wasteland via Life from the Loam) and permanents in play (through recurring Engineered Explosives via Academy Ruins, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale etc) But if you notice it already, these lines of play against High Tide are largely ineffective, which relies on spells and basic Islands in play, even Engineered Explosives doesn't stop the untap effect from Candelabra.
    Sideboarding: -1 High Tide, though it is not likely they will be sideboarding Extractions, you just never know for sure. Make sure you have maindeck / sideboard bounce access after sideboarding.
    Sideboarding game plan: You can also go lower on Flusterstorm since it won't hit much of anything but Enlightened Tutor or Intuition. Aside from that, they won't have alot against you, maybe Chalice of the Void in addition to their other weaker options against High Tide & their slow clock. Pre/Post sideboard, this is not a match up that should prove difficult, it's probably one of the easiest overall, as you can bounce their permanent hate, while everything else they cast is a bunch of lands.

    28.) Liliana Pox: (Disruption, Moderate playtesting recommended, however a less common match up)
    Basic game plan: This is a deck that has a ton of disruption, Discard, land destruction, pox like effects, recurring discard from Liliana of the Veil. If they cast enough disruption to get you down to 0 or 1 card in hand, then start up'ing Liliana of the Veil every turn to make you discard, you'll never have 2 cards in hand, which is needed to go off properly (A High Tide and a Time Spiral) so this is a deck that can actually soft lock you out with Liliana. If you are getting low on cards in hand and risk running into this problem, keep some cards in hand, don't play a 5th land if you don't need it to go off, don't play a candel if you have 4 lands in play, etc, use the minimum number of permanents to go off, if you are risking getting locked out because the cards in your hand are getting low. Aside from always remembering that, use your brainstorms & counters to fight their discard, as well as countering their more effective disruption that is smallpox (hits land & card in hand) or hymn to tourach (hitting 2 cards in hand) where as sinkhole only hits 1 card, inquisition of kozilek hits only 1 card in hand & can't hit Time Spiral or Force of will, and remember against any discard, you have Brainstorm. As far as their kill condition goes, it's things like Nether Spirit, Cursed Scroll & Mishra's Factory, all stuff that slowly does 2 damage, 2 damage, 2 damage, until you are dead, their clock is slow, BUT, their disruption is fast!
    Sideboarding: Out -1 High Tide -Any maindeck bounce / In +Flusterstorm +1 Blue Sun's Zenith (If you don't have one maindeck already)
    Sideboarding game plan: This is one of the few decks that might sideboard in Extirpate, they have so much disruption it's not hard to get a Cunning Wish into the graveyard, then attempt to remove all copies from the game, so make sure you have a Blue Sun's Zenith in the main post sideboard games, and of course, 1 High Tide in the sideboard for similar reasons. Beyond that, their disruption will only increase, they might take out the Cursed Scrolls for more disruption, as their gameplan against you will be to tear your hand apart and keep you from ever comboing by keeping your hand empty.

    29.) Burn: (Light playtesting required)
    A more favorable match up. Basic game plan: Game 1 it's just a race, either they will literally burn you to 0 life, or you will combo out before that point. Remember that most of their spells are going to do 3 damage at a minimum, so if you force something, force what does 4 damage or more like flame rift / fireblast, or a creature like goblin guide that can do 2/4/6/and so on damage. All you have to do is stall them out with your counters and get to your combo as soon as possible.
    Sideboarding: Out -Any maindeck bounce, -1 High Tide / In +Flusterstorm.
    Sideboarding game plan: Your goal largely remains unchanged, expect them to bring in the ever popular from the sideboard of red decks, Red elemental blasts / Pyroblasts. On your end, especially on the play, this is a match up that remains favorable, and if you suspect them holding some of their from the sideboard disruption, save a counter accordingly for it, or turnabout & tap them out the turn before you go off if you get to that point.

    30.) Prison Stax: (Disruption, Light-Moderate playtesting recommended, however a less common match up)
    A more favorable matchup. Basic game plan: They will have Chalice of the void, Trinisphere, Smokestack & Armageddon against you, that's about it. However, their clock isn't fast, so letting Trinisphere resolve is not an uncommon strategy since you can just Cunning wish for a massive artifact bounce spell like Hurkyl's Recall or Rebuild, then at the end of their turn before you go off, just bounce all their artifacts back to their hand. Smokestack & Armageddon are your priority counter targets, since losing your land is their most effective strategy against you, but if you get out 3 lands, their trinisphere's are less effective. As far as Chalice of the void goes, if they turn 1 a chalice on you and it's your turn 0, you would be more inclined to counter it, but if they do it for 1 when you are in a position to be able to wish - mass artifact bounce - then go off next turn, at that point it's fine letting it resolve. Remember their clock is usually slow, Magus of the Tabernacle / Mishra's Factory only swing for 2 a turn, though some lists do run Hero of Bladehold, which is faster.
    Sideboarding: -1 High Tide / have access to maindeck & sideboard bounce of some kind, usually Wipe Away as single target & Rebuild/Hurkyl's Recall for mass bounce.
    Sideboarding game plan: One popular card in such a sideboard is Leyline of Sanctity, however it doesn't stop you from comboing, it just stops you from targeting them until you bounce it, which is easy once you get all that mana, draw all those cards, and have access to those tutors for bounce. Just in case the opponent does have Surgical Extraction as their sideboard hate, you can still do 1 High Tide to the side "just in case" because you never know, though it is less likely in this deck since they don't want to cast Converted Mana Cost of 1 spells, since they're running Chalice of the Void.

    __________

    As a general rule against aggro decks, let them go for it with a few combat steps, waiting to go off until your last possible turn before lethal, then go off accordingly, saving your responses for any disruption they might have. Against decks that have no or very little disruption, it just comes down to a race.

    As a general rule against combo decks, make sure they don't go off, you have to play the control deck against most other combo decks, remember, as long as they don't kill you, you can still kill them, so focus gathering Counterspells until you draw into one of your combo pieces, then tutor for the other half of it when you can go off before your opponents next chance to combo out again.

    As a general rule against control decks, gather as much protection as possible, out of all strategies, getting your opponent to tap out and "cut them off" from their mana is more important here than anywhere else in most cases, and anytime you can draw a Counterspell out of your opponents hand is a plus.

    As a general rule sideboarding, always remember that any deck might be sideboarding Mindbreak trap and Surgical Extraction, and any deck with Swamp might be sideboarding Extirpate.

    After that, "do your homework." That means play testing as much as you can, try to become so familiar with the format that anyone you sit across from, from their first permanent or spell played you are already eliminating down the possibilities of what they are and are not likely playing, even if they keep their hand, then pass the turn without playing so much as a land, that should give you clues as to what they might be running. (Dredge or Belcher decks might do this.)

    In the end, no matter how much research or playtesting we do, magic is an extremely diverse game, especially in Legacy. So many variables come into play. While we do make our own luck by having the resources (cards), building proper decklists, and knowing as much as possible about your given match up's and interactions in your given metagame, sometimes, you're just going to have a bad run, and any player who has played Magic long enough knows that. Statistically, when you go to a tournament with 200, 400, 800+ people, your chances of top 8 are 4%, 2%, 1%! Just by the numbers alone of the amount of people showing up. So don't be discouraged if you walk out with a winning record yet still don't make top 8 or get prizes, a winning record is still technically better than over half of the other people there, and if it helps, and you're playing High Tide, you will always have all those other High Tide players cheering you on no matter how well your day goes!

    Just one perspective of many, ~Feline Longmore

    Before the Tournament:
    Before it starts, do that "extra setup" for the rounds, usually I go through the 1st 8 or 9, depending on the attendance where I'm at, etc, but basically I write 20 - 20 for all 3 games on the top of the 9 pages, THEN I go to about 80% of the way down and write down "HT, ST, Mana, Pact" (Currently I am not running meditate or I'd note that as well)
    HT is high tide, even though I put a die on the single island, I always put a dash on paper for each high tide resolved, I don't EVER want that to be come an issue.
    ST is for storm count, when I know I have to build up enough storm to go for Brain Freeze, OR they have so much mana available with their islands, it'll take me a while before my flusterstorms are hard counters, so I have to track storm count till then. Basically I take the 1st spell played by each player on the combo turn, in my graveyard I'll turn the high tide or whatever I casted sideways and ask them to do the same with their first spell played if they played one, or will play one. Then I just keep going without writing it down because the evidence is there, HOWEVER, if I get to the point of a Time Spiral, I say "before spiraling,how many spells played? & then put the dashes in accordingly, it saves a TON of time -vs- doing it individually in between every single spell, and it's accurate and all that stuff, & puts it on paper for when you Time Spiral and all the "evidence" of what was played, was shuffled away.
    Mana is for whenever I Time Spiral, I will sometimes write the mana floating down, because it'll be a bit before it's used again, being that it take some time to shuffle & draw a new 7, and you don't ever want a die to roll over, or to forget a number just because of that.
    Pact is for Pact of Negation, if a Pact resolves, I put a Dash there to represent that I'll have to pay 5 on my next upkeep or lose the game, if, one fizzles of course.
    Meditate would just have dashes for each one cast, representing the number of turns I'll have to skip before my next one, if, one fizzles of course
    Last edited by feline; 03-31-2014 at 11:05 AM. Reason: Update
    Primary legacy deck High Tide primer
    Past Standard Tooth & Nail(2005) Boros deck wins(06) Dragonstorm(07)
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    Legacy under $500 http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25253
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  3. #3

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Really Really Impressive!

    Thank you for your contribution to the deck, Feline!

  4. #4
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by entreri_fans View Post
    Really Really Impressive!

    Thank you for your contribution to the deck, Feline!
    Very nice primer! Good job!

  5. #5
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Great job! This Primer will help a lot of new high tide players! ... like me ;)

  6. #6
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Most current (successful, non-budget) Elves lists are GBw, run Deathrite+NO main, 4 targeted discard (4 Therapy or 2/2 Therapy/Seize) in the board, plus a couple Mindbreak Traps (which I think are wrong overall, though probably better than Leyline of Sanctity against High Tide. How badly does screwing up your Intuitions hurt you?). Sometimes, albeit rarely, you might see Chokes from the board.
    G1 is simple, we're a purely positive deck preboard, can only interact on the battlefield, max. disruption is one Viridian Shaman or Pridemage as GSZ target. Counter our combo cards, and we're too slow to win. Post board, you're probably still favoured, but dunno, no extensive experience on the matchup.

  7. #7

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Great primer! Thank you a lot, feline!

    I have just one thing that I don't like at all and that is the name of the deck. In my opinion decks shouldn't be named after one card, if there are more decks in which that card sees play. I think that Spiral Tide is a perfect name for the deck and that even though Solidarity isn't currently played much naming Spiral Tide High Tide is confusing to newer players and possibly offending to older ones.

  8. #8

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Very well written!

    ...just add mystic remora and it'll be perfect ;)

  9. #9

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    I'm not a combo fan or a fan of this deck, but I really enjoyed reading this primer. It was very well done. I did notice one typo in the section on mulligans, omitting the word "likes". "Nobody LIKES to mulligan, but I absolutely HATE it". Great job though.
    I see more than others do because I know where to look.

  10. #10

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Gratz for this huge piece of work feline!

  11. #11
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin View Post
    I'm not a combo fan or a fan of this deck, but I really enjoyed reading this primer. It was very well done. I did notice one typo in the section on mulligans, omitting the word "likes". "Nobody LIKES to mulligan, but I absolutely HATE it". Great job though.
    Thank you and fixed! also I noted calling it "High Tide, version, Spiral Tide", & while it says that here atop the post, it still doesn't say that in the list of threads leading to here which is weird.
    Last edited by feline; 03-13-2013 at 07:12 PM.
    Primary legacy deck High Tide primer
    Past Standard Tooth & Nail(2005) Boros deck wins(06) Dragonstorm(07)
    Primers http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/member.php?33551 High Tide Belcher Zoo Pox Stax Reanimator Burn
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  12. #12
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Holy crap Feline! Everybody needs a hobby, huh?
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Congratulations feline! im building the deck and this is a really useful thread

  14. #14
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    The original discussion thread for High Tide has been closed. Please continue the discussion here.

    Here is the link to the original discussion thread for reference.

  15. #15

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    @ TimeWalk sideboarding

    Most of these are fine. There's always a small buffer on what you can get away with in boarding so there's no "exact" means of doing it, so I can't say you did anything incorrectly. Although I was a bit surprised you elected to board out a Meditate against the Stoneblade player knowing that they run discard. Outside of Stoneforge Mystic they don't have any clock at all, so I would likely keep this in the deck. The High Tide against Burn is really a choice of preference; I personally like to keep it in the deck because it increases your odds of naturally having it or finding it when most times it is difficult to survive to Wish for High Tide, but at the same time it's a perfectly logical choice to maximize Wish's efficiency to find it should you be able to stall them the first few turns. Another thing on Burn, but if the version you play against is rather creature heavy I'd consider boarding in the Snap as well. This is also nice because it helps the possibility of going off with fewer lands or turn three. The lack of Meditate against the Zombardment deck isn't crazy, but I'd likely keep it given their clock isn't amazing and they lack the permanent benefits to punish you for playing it (like Jund which has Liliana and Dark Confidant) so it's worthwhile to use to fight discard.

    @ Force of Will on Stoneforge Mystic

    This is pretty much always the wrong play, regardless of if you knew he had discard. Unless you're sitting in a late game situation where both decks are in topdeck mode and you can simply hardcast a Force, this is the wrong play. I haven't countered a Mystic in over a year, and the last time I did it cost me a match. It really shouldn't matter what they're getting, whether it's Feast and Famine or not. My philosophy here is if you have the option to Force it, then those cards are expendable anyway and can be discarded later by Feast and Famine so it isn't worth countering. The clock is 5-6 turns at best with this, which is plenty of time to find cards and win the game while still having that Force of Will as protection. Granted if they're attacking you with it for 4+ turns and you haven't won then it isn't likely, but point being you should be able to do before then. If they get Batterskull, then their clock is slightly larger but they lack that element of disruption which is better for you. Now if you Force it, you slow their (already slow) clock, but now lack two cards to protect against anything else in hand. I'd prefer to have them make me discard one at a time and take a few damage than lose my Force of Will when it could be used on something better. Plus, using Force on the Mystic also runs the risk of getting completely blown out if they have a second one. If you burn your Force on it and they follow that up with another one the following turn, you wasted the Force, whereas their second Stoneforge Mystic wasn't going to be relevant at all.

    @ Side board against Stoneblade

    I did not like to keep Meditate while facing a deck with Tourach, Snapcaster, Sword of F&F and other discard effects. I also don't like to be on the draw to cast Meditate. I felt better having Remora since they play counters, cantrips and discard spells. I may be wrong about the power of Meditate in that match up.


    @ Zombardment

    Same as for Stoneblade, I did not want Meditate on the draw. I have the feeling that I was puzzled by the discussion in this topic about cutting Meditates... I ended up siding them out maybe too often.


    @ Force of Will on Stoneforge Mystic

    I saw Michael Tabler do it and thought it was an interesting line of play. The bet is that I get much more turn to scult my hand by destroying their bad clock. However, I understand all your argumentation. I still don't know which play is the best because you cannot predict how fast they can get a new clock.


    @ Peer Through Depths

    I saw this list: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=4457&d=225864

    It is a budget list but Peer Through Depths looks like a card I want to test. I did not get why he ran the Muddle the Mixture.

  16. #16
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Is if ok if I "quote" you Di ? I actually have your points on why to run Candelabra's saved from a discussion not too long ago, and I don't want to quote you if for some reason you don't want to be noted, but otherwise I would like to give proper notification there if I put something that you said specifically.
    Last edited by feline; 03-13-2013 at 07:12 PM.
    Primary legacy deck High Tide primer
    Past Standard Tooth & Nail(2005) Boros deck wins(06) Dragonstorm(07)
    Primers http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/member.php?33551 High Tide Belcher Zoo Pox Stax Reanimator Burn
    Decks/Prices
    Legacy http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24023
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  17. #17
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Hi guys, I Plan on taking the tide to the DC open this weekend and i would like some input on the list. I'll post it then offer some notes/ reason for the changes.
    12 [A] Island (2)
    2 [ON] Flooded Strand
    2 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
    2 [ON] Polluted Delta
    3 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
    4 [LRW] Ponder
    3 [US] Turnabout
    1 [FUT] Pact of Negation
    2 [CMD] Flusterstorm
    1 [MBS] Blue Sun's Zenith
    4 [US] Time Spiral
    3 [M11] Preordain
    4 [8E] Merchant Scroll
    2 [TE] Meditate
    4 [FE] High Tide (2)
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    3 [JU] Cunning Wish
    4 [BD] Brainstorm
    SB: 1 [US] Turnabout
    SB: 2 [FUT] Pact of Negation
    SB: 1 [MBS] Blue Sun's Zenith
    SB: 1 [TE] Meditate
    SB: 1 [ZEN] Ravenous Trap
    SB: 1 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
    SB: 1 [SC] Brain Freeze
    SB: 2 [TSP] Wipe Away
    SB: 1 [DS] Echoing Truth
    SB: 1 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
    SB: 1 [UL] Snap
    SB: 1 [UL] Rebuild
    SB: 1 [JGC] Flusterstorm

    the first thing is the main deck BSZ i have it cause in playing the deck ive found myself wanting to have just a maindeck non wishable way to go deep. It may not be needed but im still testing it this week. the sideboard is pretty standard extra copies of everything and ways to up counters in certain matchups.
    the 3 turnabouts may be to many but still not sure if its right or not.
    anyways thoughts?
    Quote Originally Posted by obituary 95 View Post
    dragon fire heart, why do you run thirst for knowledge i thought by know it was a pretty common consensus that thirst was a little two slow. i also believe if i am not mistaken that most legacy players dislike jace on the same merit of why we dislike thirst

  18. #18
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by neckfire View Post
    Hi guys, I Plan on taking the tide to the DC open this weekend and i would like some input on the list. I'll post it then offer some notes/ reason for the changes.
    12 [A] Island (2)
    2 [ON] Flooded Strand
    2 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
    2 [ON] Polluted Delta
    3 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
    4 [LRW] Ponder
    3 [US] Turnabout
    1 [FUT] Pact of Negation
    2 [CMD] Flusterstorm
    1 [MBS] Blue Sun's Zenith
    4 [US] Time Spiral
    3 [M11] Preordain
    4 [8E] Merchant Scroll
    2 [TE] Meditate
    4 [FE] High Tide (2)
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    3 [JU] Cunning Wish
    4 [BD] Brainstorm
    SB: 1 [US] Turnabout
    SB: 2 [FUT] Pact of Negation
    SB: 1 [MBS] Blue Sun's Zenith
    SB: 1 [TE] Meditate
    SB: 1 [ZEN] Ravenous Trap
    SB: 1 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
    SB: 1 [SC] Brain Freeze
    SB: 2 [TSP] Wipe Away
    SB: 1 [DS] Echoing Truth
    SB: 1 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
    SB: 1 [UL] Snap
    SB: 1 [UL] Rebuild
    SB: 1 [JGC] Flusterstorm

    the first thing is the main deck BSZ i have it cause in playing the deck ive found myself wanting to have just a maindeck non wishable way to go deep. It may not be needed but im still testing it this week. the sideboard is pretty standard extra copies of everything and ways to up counters in certain matchups.
    the 3 turnabouts may be to many but still not sure if its right or not.
    anyways thoughts?
    Looks pretty standard. The only thing I'd have you consider is playing Intuition as opposed to Meditate in the sideboard. I'll also be playing High Tide at the DC Open this Sunday.

  19. #19
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by neckfire View Post
    Hi guys, I Plan on taking the tide to the DC open this weekend and i would like some input on the list. I'll post it then offer some notes/ reason for the changes.
    12 [A] Island (2)
    2 [ON] Flooded Strand
    2 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
    2 [ON] Polluted Delta
    3 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
    4 [LRW] Ponder
    3 [US] Turnabout
    1 [FUT] Pact of Negation
    2 [CMD] Flusterstorm
    1 [MBS] Blue Sun's Zenith
    4 [US] Time Spiral
    3 [M11] Preordain
    4 [8E] Merchant Scroll
    2 [TE] Meditate
    4 [FE] High Tide (2)
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    3 [JU] Cunning Wish
    4 [BD] Brainstorm
    SB: 1 [US] Turnabout
    SB: 2 [FUT] Pact of Negation
    SB: 1 [MBS] Blue Sun's Zenith
    SB: 1 [TE] Meditate
    SB: 1 [ZEN] Ravenous Trap
    SB: 1 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
    SB: 1 [SC] Brain Freeze
    SB: 2 [TSP] Wipe Away
    SB: 1 [DS] Echoing Truth
    SB: 1 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
    SB: 1 [UL] Snap
    SB: 1 [UL] Rebuild
    SB: 1 [JGC] Flusterstorm

    the first thing is the main deck BSZ i have it cause in playing the deck ive found myself wanting to have just a maindeck non wishable way to go deep. It may not be needed but im still testing it this week. the sideboard is pretty standard extra copies of everything and ways to up counters in certain matchups.
    the 3 turnabouts may be to many but still not sure if its right or not.
    anyways thoughts?

    Blue Sun's Zenith You are not alone in that, most lists have put a Blue Sun's Zenith back into the main because of that, as well as the implications of more discard, potentially allowing an opponent to eat your Cunning Wishes from the deck with a Surgical Extraction or Extirpate, & with a main deck Blue Sun that is not a nail in the coffin.

    Also the toolbox sideboard is also more popular right now, with a main deck Blue Sun, you don't have to dedicate 1 wish to a Blue Sun, all your wishes are potential bullets when needed for anything.

    As far as running 3 Turnabout main, that is also the average, in fact it is very rare to see a decklist that doesn't run max Turnabout's (3 main 1 side of course) because they are an untap effect for your lands, an untap effect for your artifacts, a tap effect for the opposing counterspell deck, a tap effect that acts as a "Fog" against opposing aggro decks, etc etc etc.

    The only thing I'd personally argue for is Intuition if you have any, at a minimum put 1 in the sideboard, it's the only direct way to get to [cards]Time Spiral[/card] when you can't just Blue Sun's Zenith yourself for a one sided Time Spiral or higher.

    Also that makes 2 High Tide DC'ers this weekend at a minimum, maybe the record will be broken for High Tide's in the room in addition to the attendance record? ^.^
    Last edited by feline; 03-13-2013 at 09:21 PM.
    Primary legacy deck High Tide primer
    Past Standard Tooth & Nail(2005) Boros deck wins(06) Dragonstorm(07)
    Primers http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/member.php?33551 High Tide Belcher Zoo Pox Stax Reanimator Burn
    Decks/Prices
    Legacy http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24023
    Legacy under $500 http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25253
    Follow on Twitter @FelineLongmore

  20. #20
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by feline View Post

    Blue Sun's Zenith You are not alone in that, most lists have put a Blue Sun's Zenith back into the main because of that, as well as the implications of more discard, potentially allowing an opponent to eat your Cunning Wishes from the deck with a Surgical Extraction or [cards]Extirpate[/card], & with a main deck Blue Sun that is not a nail in the coffin.

    Also the toolbox sideboard is also more popular right now, with a main deck Blue Sun, you don't have to dedicate 1 wish to a Blue Sun, all your wishes are potential bullets when needed for anything.

    As far as running 3 Turnabout main, that is also the average, in fact it is very rare to see a decklist that doesn't run max Turnabout's (3 main 1 side of course) because they are an untap effect for your lands, an untap effect for your artifacts, a tap effect for the opposing counterspell deck, a tap effect that acts as a "Fog" against opposing aggro decks, etc etc etc.

    The only thing I'd personally argue for is Intuition if you have any, at a minimum put 1 in the sideboard, it's the only direct way to get to [cards]Time Spiral[/card] when you can't just Blue Sun's Zenith yourself for a one sided Time Spiral or higher.


    Also that makes 2 High Tide DC'ers this weekend at a minimum, maybe the record will be broken for High Tide's in the room in addition to the attendance record? ^.^
    I like the idea of one intuition in the sideboard. What would you recommend cutting for it ?
    Quote Originally Posted by obituary 95 View Post
    dragon fire heart, why do you run thirst for knowledge i thought by know it was a pretty common consensus that thirst was a little two slow. i also believe if i am not mistaken that most legacy players dislike jace on the same merit of why we dislike thirst

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