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Thread: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

  1. #1281

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackan View Post
    And another 5-0.

    Belcher (2-1)
    Turbo Depths (2-0)
    4C Pile with Daze (2-1)
    Sneak and show (2-0)
    Grixis Delver (2-0)

    I love this deck!

    Tried TiTi again, not sure what to think of that. Sided in vs delver in this league but have put him to good use vs dnt etc previously.
    Hello Mackan,

    I am very surprised you managed to beat Sneak & Show and to a lesser extend Delver! Congrats.
    Any comments on how went these matches?
    Still the same list?
    Thank,
    TW

  2. #1282

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by TiMeWaLk View Post
    Hello Mackan,

    I am very surprised you managed to beat Sneak & Show and to a lesser extend Delver! Congrats.
    Any comments on how went these matches?
    Still the same list?
    Thank,
    TW
    Versus sneak and show I 100% play control, meaning I will shuffle away my time spirals and high tides and just dig for countermagic and predict. A role player in this matchup after you stopped their first and maybe second attempt to combo is to wish for a meditate and just cast it eot. If they are fast to combo it generally means they will put cards into acceleration (city of traitors, lotus petal and so on) which automaticly gives you card advantage to fight the rest of the game. Their deck is also less consistent with more bad draws so the longer the game goes on the more likely it is for you to win. Most lists don't run boseiju so we should be fine here and by naturally "flooding out" their soft-counters become weaker. Try to make your landdrops but don't play more than necessary and save brainstorms if you can.

    Against delver pretty much the same control approach apply, the faster their clock, the less disruption they have and the more likely it is for you to combo. Don't rush for the combo in the dark but rather make sure to get enough cards to have enough countermagic for the combo turn. They need fewer lands so that means you will need more cards (unless they have a terrible draw) to maintain parity. Again, it's highly decklist and drawdependant but a force of will and a flusterstorm with 5 lands in play should do the trick.

    Here's my list:

    https://twitter.com/Truckis123/statu...46378458525696

    I'm on the fence about 4th flusterstorm vs 4th predict main. rest is pretty set. I also made another mix of fetches because of sorcerous spyglass and pithing needle. You will always name island when you predict in the dark so having more of of one kind of fetches makes no sense.

  3. #1283

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackan View Post
    Versus sneak and show I 100% play control, meaning I will shuffle away my time spirals and high tides and just dig for countermagic and predict. A role player in this matchup after you stopped their first and maybe second attempt to combo is to wish for a meditate and just cast it eot. If they are fast to combo it generally means they will put cards into acceleration (city of traitors, lotus petal and so on) which automaticly gives you card advantage to fight the rest of the game. Their deck is also less consistent with more bad draws so the longer the game goes on the more likely it is for you to win. Most lists don't run boseiju so we should be fine here and by naturally "flooding out" their soft-counters become weaker. Try to make your landdrops but don't play more than necessary and save brainstorms if you can.

    Against delver pretty much the same control approach apply, the faster their clock, the less disruption they have and the more likely it is for you to combo. Don't rush for the combo in the dark but rather make sure to get enough cards to have enough countermagic for the combo turn. They need fewer lands so that means you will need more cards (unless they have a terrible draw) to maintain parity. Again, it's highly decklist and drawdependant but a force of will and a flusterstorm with 5 lands in play should do the trick.

    Here's my list:

    https://twitter.com/Truckis123/statu...46378458525696

    I'm on the fence about 4th flusterstorm vs 4th predict main. rest is pretty set. I also made another mix of fetches because of sorcerous spyglass and pithing needle. You will always name island when you predict in the dark so having more of of one kind of fetches makes no sense.
    Ok, thanks for the tips. I was already playing with these roles in mind, but I always saw the match-up vs Sneak as completely horrible. Maybe it gets better with less untap effect and a bit of CA via Predict.

    I will try your list :)

  4. #1284

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by TiMeWaLk View Post
    Ok, thanks for the tips. I was already playing with these roles in mind, but I always saw the match-up vs Sneak as completely horrible. Maybe it gets better with less untap effect and a bit of CA via Predict.

    I will try your list :)
    Please do! I appreciate any input and data. It could be just variance but atleast I feel good about most matchups now. It's not like a year ago when I lost the die roll, saw any card from my opponent and sunk in my chair lol. High tide I think was more or less a strictly slower and more fragile show and tell deck. What it has going for it is the super consistency, redundancy and ability to solve most hate-card-puzzles. I think playing control with maindeck predict is what gives us enough CA to actually maintain that Control-role. You only get so far with countermagic and no "Clock" but Predict is that clock. It's pretty much Always a draw 3 for 2 mana post-spiral too.

    Edit: I made a Facebook Group labeled "Legacy High Tide". Just send an invite request if you want in :-)
    Last edited by Mackan; 01-22-2018 at 05:23 AM.

  5. #1285

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Sure, I just did. :)
    Time to sleeve my pet deck again I guess!

  6. #1286

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    I've played a few more games for fun w/ my local playgroup, and I have a next to impossible time vs Colorless Eldrazi. Chalice, Thorn, Sol Lands, Eldrazi lands, all contribute to making that deck extremely fast. I've found that having FoW in hand plus a Spell Pierce means I can weather the first turn or two of hate. There are more creatures in that deck, that hit the board fast enough, that I can't Snap/Echoing Truth them away fast enough.

    Game 1, I am usually pretty good against it, so long as I know that's the deck, in which case I mulligan until I have FoW and Spell Pierce in hand, but games two and three are usually a wash as they side out removal and bring in Surgical Extraction and Warping Wail, along w/ maxing out Thorn and Chalice.

    Anyone else facing lots of Eldrazi Aggro in their meta?

  7. #1287

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by jasonious View Post
    I've played a few more games for fun w/ my local playgroup, and I have a next to impossible time vs Colorless Eldrazi. Chalice, Thorn, Sol Lands, Eldrazi lands, all contribute to making that deck extremely fast. I've found that having FoW in hand plus a Spell Pierce means I can weather the first turn or two of hate. There are more creatures in that deck, that hit the board fast enough, that I can't Snap/Echoing Truth them away fast enough.

    Game 1, I am usually pretty good against it, so long as I know that's the deck, in which case I mulligan until I have FoW and Spell Pierce in hand, but games two and three are usually a wash as they side out removal and bring in Surgical Extraction and Warping Wail, along w/ maxing out Thorn and Chalice.

    Anyone else facing lots of Eldrazi Aggro in their meta?
    Maybe a Thing in the ice in your SB may help?

  8. #1288

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Got another 5-0 now trying Teferi’s realm over sideboard thing in the ice. It’s such a powerful card vs dnt and chalice decks. It’s sadly still bugged on modo so I don’t get that much testing... anyone else who’s been playing Teferi’s realm? How has it been?

  9. #1289

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    I'm looking to borrow a few TitI to try out, but Teferi's Realm looks like a fun alternative as well. On my turn, choose artifacts, and then away we go. TR is also much cheaper than TitI :)

  10. #1290

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Thanks for posting your leagues on Twitch Mackan. I watched all of them. It appears to be difficult to find recent videos of High Tide which is unfortunate because for a deck that offers so many lines of play it is beneficial to learn from others' reasoning. The version I run is similar to yours and I recently substituted 2 Gitaxian Probe, 1 Spell Pierce and 1 Meditate for 4 Predict.

    In my 60 I currently run 2 Spell Pierce and 1 Swan Song over 3 Flusterstorm. On the play with unknown opponent this makes me hold up mana in the early turns to counter lock-pieces. In the combo turn after a few high tides this makes me more vulnerable to countermagic than Flusterstorm. Seeing that there is a tradeoff, how important are the Flusterstorms over the mentioned alternatives?

    My sideboard is:

    2 Defense Grid
    2 Thing in the Ice
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Blue Sun's Zenith
    1 Brain Freeze
    1 Swan Song
    1 Meditate
    1 Teferi's Realm
    1 Turnabout
    1 Echoing Truth
    1 Snap

    I am thinking about switching the Teferi's Realm for a Hurkyl's Recall since it is tutorable, and the Swan Song for a Pact of Negation since it is a free spell.
    I want to try out the deck at a Legacy event in 10 days. Should I focus on getting the Flusterstorms or the Pact to improve the build?
    Thanks!

  11. #1291

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyEDB View Post
    Thanks for posting your leagues on Twitch Mackan. I watched all of them. It appears to be difficult to find recent videos of High Tide which is unfortunate because for a deck that offers so many lines of play it is beneficial to learn from others' reasoning. The version I run is similar to yours and I recently substituted 2 Gitaxian Probe, 1 Spell Pierce and 1 Meditate for 4 Predict.

    In my 60 I currently run 2 Spell Pierce and 1 Swan Song over 3 Flusterstorm. On the play with unknown opponent this makes me hold up mana in the early turns to counter lock-pieces. In the combo turn after a few high tides this makes me more vulnerable to countermagic than Flusterstorm. Seeing that there is a tradeoff, how important are the Flusterstorms over the mentioned alternatives?

    My sideboard is:

    2 Defense Grid
    2 Thing in the Ice
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Blue Sun's Zenith
    1 Brain Freeze
    1 Swan Song
    1 Meditate
    1 Teferi's Realm
    1 Turnabout
    1 Echoing Truth
    1 Snap

    I am thinking about switching the Teferi's Realm for a Hurkyl's Recall since it is tutorable, and the Swan Song for a Pact of Negation since it is a free spell.
    I want to try out the deck at a Legacy event in 10 days. Should I focus on getting the Flusterstorms or the Pact to improve the build?
    Thanks!
    Thanks! Just happy to spread the love!
    Short answer. I typically do not like countermagic versus lockpieces like chalice of the void because of the bad tempo it gives. Rather than holding up mana, that may ot may not, counter anything I rather churn through my library for a fow and, 4 lands, a spiral and a high tide. Maybe teferi’s realm. It’s simply not worth ”timewalking” yourself if they cast a thought-knot seer etc. so, for all the blue decks (non-lockpieces) i rather have flusterstorm. There are a dozen tricks which are more or less crucial. Makes sure to not get stifled, protect your predict etc. i’ll respond more later.

    edit: There's also the post-spiral balance of having too much air in the deck. Flusterstorm is great vs blue since your opponent will draw their countermagic but against a lock-piece deck there's almost nothing you need to be aware of. Aether vial for something scary, warping veil, surgical extraction... maybe mindbreak trap. that's not a lot. So if you have a high density of interaction which you can draw from time spiral there's a higher chance of fizzle. Oftentimes you are forced to go off turn4 rather than turn5,6 like you can if you predict+flusterstorm grind a blue deck which means you are tight on mana so not drawing dead cards is very important. One of the reasons why I like teferi's realm is that it's a hatepiece you don't have to re-draw too. Hurkyl's recall is something I miss but I don't think I can afford the slot and I want to try teferi's realm more. The other day I was facing a t1 mother t2 Thalia, t3 teeg, t4 canonist. Teferi's realm and GG. Minimal sample size, but it felt good :P I should say that I Think realm and TiTi compete for the same slots too. I like both. How do you like Titi so far?

    Pact of Negation is good in a blue meta but the differense between a meditate and a flusterstorm is not huge. It's a slot I'm on the fence about but it's a good way to protect a turn4 kill.
    I think it's more important in this list than in the candelabra versions since there you can play candelabra the turn before you combo and you'll have a mana to spare for a flusterstorm.
    Last edited by Mackan; 02-02-2018 at 03:50 AM.

  12. #1292

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Hello guys,
    Looking at the current metagame, why do you keep defense grid in your sideboard? It was really good against Tempo thresh, but now Grixis plays discard... and we need our counters during their turn. When do you side the card in?

  13. #1293

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Thoughts on Mystic Remora in the sideboard? Seems pretty dang good to me, as you could drop it t1 to pretty much Standstill the game. Seems decent vs combo too, if you drop it after t1 so you can keep some Flusterstorm mana open. You could sandbag it, and drop it right before, or right after a High Tide (always before your business spells though). Going into a counter-war with a Remora on the table sounds mighty nice.

  14. #1294

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    I always have one in my list minimum. It is super strong against combo decks and discard, but I never drop it t1. More like t2, in order to have a bit more mana available.
    Maybe I will test a second one with this meta.

  15. #1295

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Sorry for the late response. I mostly post on the Facebook page or in the discord.

    re: defense grid. I don't really like it for a couple of reasons.
    1) the spell pierce/force of will/flusterstorm/red blast decks also run discard spells and leovold.
    2) with a high tide cast there's a high chance your opponent can pay for defense grid.
    that beeing said it was the best alternative I found (search for azcanta, thing in the ice, mystic remora) until I stumbled upon Hope of Ghirapuhr!
    I'm pretty sure it was recommended Before but I didn't pick it up for some reason. I have played it for a few tournaments and it has been INSANE. It's a must counter vs sneak and show, miracles and an almost-must-counter vs pile and delver.

    re: mystic remora. I ran 2-3 of these in the sideboard a couple of years ago and they worked really well vs discard Heavy/cantrip Heavy decks like delver and storm. I Think however that with 3-4 predict main you cover this enough allready.

  16. #1296
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Has anyone tried one Mana Severance in the deck?

    There are situations when we brick just because there are too many lands in the deck and spiraling and cantriping leads nowhere. Perhaps Mana Severance can help to trim down our deck while we are tapping/untapping and searching for business spells.

    Any thoughts?
    ---
    Carpe Diem

  17. #1297
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quick High Tide checklist:

    • Does it make CA? No.
    • Does it draw a card? No.
    • Does it untap lands? No.
    • Is it a (blue) instant? No.
    • Does it help in bad matchups? No.

  18. #1298

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Spellseeker

    2U

    Creature - Human Wizard

    When Spellseeker enters the battlefield, search may your library for an instant or sorcery card with converted mana cost 2 or less, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle your library.

    -

    Finds High Tide, Cantrips, Merchant Scrolls, Snap, Pact, and we can also try a single copy of Pull from Tomorrow.

    // 60 Maindeck

    // 60 Maindeck

    // 3 Artifact
    3 Candelabra of Tawnos

    // 23 Instant
    4 High Tide
    4 Cunning Wish
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Force of Will
    2 Snap
    1 Pact of Negation
    2 Flusterstorm
    1 Brain Freeze
    1 Pull from Tomorrow

    // 18 Land
    2 Polluted Delta
    2 Flooded Strand
    2 Scalding Tarn
    2 Misty Rainforest
    10 Island

    // 12 Sorcery
    4 Merchant Scroll
    4 Ponder
    4 Time Spiral

    // 4 unknown
    4 Spellseeker


    // 15 Sideboard
    // 15 Instant
    SB: 1 Pact of Negation
    SB: 1 Snap
    SB: 1 Brain Freeze
    SB: 1 Blue Sun's Zenith
    SB: 1 Capsize
    SB: 2 Echoing Truth
    SB: 2 Hurkyl's Recall
    SB: 1 Intuition
    SB: 1 Meditate
    SB: 1 Flusterstorm
    SB: 1 Turnabout
    SB: 1 Wipe Away
    SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
    Last edited by paradaxarada; 05-28-2018 at 07:45 AM.

  19. #1299

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    And it also finds Reset on the reset version of the deck.

  20. #1300
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by paradaxarada View Post
    And it also finds Reset on the reset version of the deck.
    Sounds like a good plan, to play non-flash creatures in an Instant-based deck. /s

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