In my opinion, Spiral Tide > Reset Tide even without Candles.Originally Posted by Bigturk94
With no Candle, I would start with a list with:
- 4 Turnabout maindeck
- 3/4 Meditate
- No Sensei's.
- 1 Brain Freeze in the sideboard
- you can try Cloud of Faeries (or a name like this) if you want more untaps (there are a lot of discussions about that in this thread and the previous).
Good luck.
The more and more I play this deck, the more and more fun it becomes. I can't wait to buy candelabras.
I am a bit fed up playing miracles and feel the urge to cast high tides again!
I have been happy with the list so far but it still need some work. I usually don't like the combo pieces all that much and normally treat the deck as a blue controldeck with inevitability (Time Spiral).
The problem with this approach is that the fair and fast decks of legacy actually becomes somewhat even matchups on the draw. Burn, Jund, Goblins etc which are reasons to play combo in the first place becomes tough.
So in the last "flex-spots" I go for 6 untap effects rather than more protection (which I allready play a ton honestly), more card draw (meditate), filtering (sensei's divining top) or various sideboard cards (like wipe away).
My sideboard consist of the normal wish-targets but I like the to double up on snap/wipe away because in the matchups where they are good you want to both be able to wish and to scroll for them (siding in one copy).
Defense grid is a metacall and could be other cards aswell. I am quite unhappy facing bug delver with this for example as they have both counterspells and discard to combat you. Miracles same thing, it stops their counterspells but let them have counterbalance. VS Rug it's perfect though.
SORCERIES (16)
4 Preordain
4 Ponder
4 Merchant Scroll
4 Time Spiral
INSTANTS (23)
4 Brainstorm
3 Flusterstorm
4 High Tide
3 Cunning Wish
3 Turnabout
1 Meditate
1 Intuition
4 Force of Will
ARTIFACTS (3)
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
LANDS (18)
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
12 Island
SIDEBOARD (15)
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
2 Defense Grid
2 Snap
1 Flusterstorm
2 Wipe Away
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Blue Sun’s Zenith
1 Brain Freeze
1 Turnabout
1 Meditate
1 Pact of Negation
let me know what you think!
I use to run 2 Wipe Away so I could main 1 / side 1 against Miracles, I like that option.
Primary legacy deck High Tide primer
How do you like the 3/3 split of turnabout/candelabra feline? I like my 3's because of MD Intuition but I am not sure about the best mix. I don't think it's either or but is it 4/2, 2/4 or 3/3? Assuming 6 untap effects.
Repeating what has allready been said before;
Candelabra has some weakness to abrupt decay, pithing needle, stifle etc. Often this is outweight by the ability to go off turn 3 with a candelabra+time spiral with flusterstorm protection (where a turn3 with turnabout is sensitive to both spell pierce and daze). It's also good that it's a permanent in play once you spiral (more often than not atleast) and if they have a removal for it you still get one untap out of it and shuffe it back in later. The most obvious reason to run candelabra over turnabout (or actually together with turnabout) is to generate much more by untapping artifacts (or wish for hurkyll's recall). But what is the best mix?
What I found from my testing of ~20 games was that it was quite common (mostly vs heavy discard) to go 5 island + turnabout + spiral. In another game I managed to generate a lethal BSZ without casting a single high tide! This was vs 4 color veteran explorer who cast a maindecked slaughter games on high tides early and then ramped me up 4 islands :)
Tturnabout can act as a poor cryptic command in tapping tops, creatures or lands. So it's maybe more versatile where candelabra is just the better mana generator?
Speaking of poor cryptic command, did anyone try a miser's cryptic command in the maindeck? I know some of you play a 1of wipe away and cryptic would be in that same slot. worse bounce, better card.
How has teferi's realm worked out? Is it a better metacall than defense grid?
How would you like a swan song rather than the 4th flusterstorm in the sideboard?
short report from testing yesterday...
miracles is not only the best deck but also pretty common on magic online. It's not a very good matchup for high tide...
So I spiced things up!
SORCERIES (16)
4 Preordain
4 Ponder
4 Merchant Scroll
4 Time Spiral
INSTANTS (23)
4 Brainstorm
3 Flusterstorm
4 High Tide
3 Cunning Wish
1 Intuition
1 Meditate
3 Turnabout
4 Force of Will
ARTIFACTS (3)
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
LANDS (18)
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
10 Island
1 Tropical Island
SIDEBOARD (15)
3 Krosan Grip (!)
1 Echoing Truth
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Flusterstorm
1 Turnabout
1 Meditate
1 Blue Sun’s Zenith
1 Brain Freeze
1 Snap
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Pact of Negation
1 Mistcutter Hydra (!)
I only had time to play a few matches but the green splash felt worth it. It's not like wasteland or blood moon are good against us all of a sudden because of 1 tropical island. It's also not meant for these matchups.
8 sources of green was allright, I don't think we want more fetches or tropical islands in the deck. I never drew the mistcutter hydra but it's probably more fun than good anyways...
I played some vs shardless and I missed a second meditate maindeck. Against discard backed up by a delver the meditates are not great but against a slow deck like shardless the 4 cards for 2 is often great. Especially if you can resolve it 2 turns before their ancestral visions go off.
Sideboarding vs miracles
+1 mistcutter hydra +3 krosan grip +1 flusterstorm +1 meditate
-2 turnabout -3 candelabra of tawnos -1 high tide
candelabras are often just worse than a land and the games tend to be drawn out, especially now since I have 3 krosan grips to draw out of the cb-lock (and perhaps mise an ethersworn canonist). Intuition is so-so if they have surgical extraction but an additional way to find the grips are good I think.
A little late here but Realm is awesome. You can take out all the hatebears at the same time and they can't mom their way out of it! You only have to worry about vial at that point. You can fade all artifacts when it's relevant or all enchantments if they have those. The only downside is they always call a judge because people don't know how fading works -_-
Can you please elaborate and provide some examples? I'm thinking about trying High Tide (mono-U and without Candelabras) and am curious to learn more about using Teferi's Realm as a protection mechanism.
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Carpe Diem
So this card is pretty interesting with the phasing mechanic. When something phases out, it is treated as if the permanent does not exist, but when it phases back in, any ETB triggers and effects do not happen. When it is your turn, depending on the match, you may name different things like creature or enchantment. For Death and Taxes, Maverick, Blade decks or any deck that runs hatebears like Thalia or Canonist, you can call creatures. If you are facing Miracles, you may want to call enchantments if they have Counterbalance out or creatures if they are being aggressive with mentor and creatures. These are the two modes that I have found useful for the card in my small testing!
One thing to note about Mentor - the tokens don't phase out. Teferi's Realm only phases out creature cards. One trick I've used against D&T with a vial out: bounce the vial with the trigger on the stack. Gets around whatever they are trying to pull.
"I have a dream that my children will one day play in a tournament where they will not be judged by the color of their cards but by the execution of their play."
Pretty much what Tristin said, but I'd also add phasing out artifacts against MUD like decks.
Do you actually have room to board it in against miracles? I usually go the DGrid route because they always board in flusterstorms and redblasts. I just don't have enough cards to board in my own flusterstorms grid and realm.
Eta: how are you all fighting infect? I'm thinking about boarding in gut shot but I only have room for like one. Probably the toughest matchup right now, I'm at a loss.
Can confirm that Teferi's Realm is insane. The card beats Death and Taxes, MUD, Enchantress, and probably some other decks I'm forgetting all by itself.
Infect is one of those matchups that's just going to be bad regardless. Faster combo with countermagic has always been bad for this deck and the preponderance of those decks is one of the main reasons I don't play High Tide much anymore. I would say Flusterstorm is pretty good against them as it prevents early blowouts - Snap and other cheap bounce are also solid if used on your own turn (to prevent kicked Vines).
Lord of the Chalice
Stompy Discord: https://discord.gg/6cesvkz
@iGrok bouncing a vial doesn't change its last known information, you need to strip or add counters to a vial to deny its user from putting intended target into play. It should be noted that phasing has never removed counters from permanents.
While realm can break a prison, such as creatures, it doesn't buy you time against them [creatures] except in the case of phasing out an equipment from under a germ token. Those of you in high tide likely don't really understand the deliberate design of the phasing mechanic across all its iterations (nor do you need to, as you don't play 12/12 tramplers), but it is important to note that it's all but impossible to phase out a local enchantment directly. The reason to point this out is that the old rules did not exist in a world of equipment, and the rules were much later changed to define direct and indirect phasing - long story short, phasing out that which is affixed to a permanent does not indirectly phase out the permanent itself (thus the equipment goes, the germ stays...and dies). Also, know the terms local and global enchantments as you read Teferi's Realm.
Using phasing puts you solidly in the area of Tezzerator, MUD, Stasis, and of course Dreadnoughts - against anyone else it's easy, just name what you don't want around on your turn; but you'll never master the mechanic until you understand these matchups. In the meantime learn this phrase "Realm trigger on the stack, passing priority before moving to resolve" - only after they pass priority do you indicate what you will choose, and at this point not even mana abilities are fast enough to escape "I name X."
You bounce the vial in response to the realm trigger. I know a fox likely wouldn't understand, but one clever enough to type might have a chance.
Bouncing the vial does nothing. I guess with Realm trigger on the stack you can bounce the vial meaning that no matter what critter is cheated into play, it'll be phased out with the rest; but that seems pretty fringe...To the point of just use Wipe Away?
Going off when your opponent has a vial @2 vs going off when he doesn't is certainly not nothing. I guess there is no reason to wait until the trigger is on the stack but that's the last chance you will have
Realm isn't ever going to stop them from putting counters on a vial unless they (on their turn) for some reason choose artifacts with NAP realm trigger on the stack above it. The non-symmetrical realm [i.e. I always choose global enchantments] is one of the harder permanents in magic to hit meaningfully [it's trigger will always make it to your stack the turn after it was cast] - in the case of the vial it seems needlessly risky to expose a phased in Realm to vial shenanigans instead of bouncing vial EoT, and then untapping into the trigger.
Literally nobody thinks it would do that.
Teferi's Relm is sweet, a person or 2 over time has told me to consider this card, that were high tide players themselves. If Counterbalance did not exist, it would be one of the cards I'd look at running. Even though it costs 3 almost doesn't matter, because you're comboing turn 4 or later anyhow.
Vial in play at 2 can be tricky, I want to bounce it if possible, if that doesn't become an opportunity then one can always in response to a vial activation Wish into Brain Freeze, though if they're smart they will activate vial with a viable hatebear as soon as they get one, so Time Spiraling can be dangerous with an untapped vial in play, just have to spiral, then do stuff with new 7 and if you can, not pass priority and get to bouncing that thing with wipe away.
Also yea, infect is a mess, when they play invigorate for free with a pendelhavened + exhalted poison creature, Flusterstorming that they haven't even casted anything other than the 1 spell for free, Infect is a pain if they get a decent hand.
Primary legacy deck High Tide primer
I still don't get this part - "The only downside is they always call a judge because people don't know how fading works -_-".
I know how Phasing works and back then Rainbow Efreet was my hitman (or hitwoman) before Morphling was printed. But I can't connect Phasing and Fading. Actually, just right now I don't see any decks that use cards with Fading. Nobody wants to play old good friend Blastoderm anymore.
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Carpe Diem
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