Page 67 of 68 FirstFirst ... 1757636465666768 LastLast
Results 1,321 to 1,340 of 1357

Thread: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

  1. #1321

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Yeah, I am super new to the deck

    Thing in the Ice is a good solution

  2. #1322
    Global Moderator
    mistercakes's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2009
    Location

    Copenhagen
    Posts

    2,274

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    the idea i had with it was with sapphire medallions and high tide.

    assuming you have turn 2 sapphire, and turn 3 high tide.

    cast this new guy for 1U, get snap. cast snap for U. untap 2 lands (U remaining)
    recast him. get snap #2. cast snap for U (untap 2 land) (UU remaining)
    recast him. do same thing.
    recast him. do same thing.

    (now you have UUUU) + 2 untapped lands. (tap for 8 mana)

    Cast him for UU, get merchant scroll, cast scroll, get intuition, cast intuition, get 3 snapcaster.

    Cast snapcaster targeting snap. Cast snap on snapcaster.

    Untap 2 lands. (u remaining), tap both (uuuuu)

    Cast snapcaster, target other snap. Return snapcaster again. Tap both islands (now UUU UU UU)

    Do this twice more. Ends up with UUU UU UU UU UU and all lands tapped.

    Cast snapcaster one last time. And grab merchant scroll to get cunning wish.

    Cast cunning wish to get blue sun zenith. Cast new guy to get brain freeze.

    Cast brain freeze and then blue sun zenith them for 1 card, or if you think the draw step will kill them then get anything

    I'm not sure if this is the optimal build, but being able to kill with just a medallion, a high tide and one of this new guy is pretty powerful.

    Thoughts? Too janky?
    -rob

  3. #1323
    Site Contributor
    ScatmanX's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2008
    Posts

    762

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    I'm not sure if this is the optimal build, but being able to kill with just a medallion, a high tide and one of this new guy is pretty powerful.

    Thoughts? Too janky?
    I like it.
    Not saying I think it's good, but would like to try it.
    Do you have a sample list?
    Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.

  4. #1324
    Everybody's a jerk! You, me..........this jerk.
    Parcher's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jan 2006
    Location

    DuPont Circle
    Posts

    1,520

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    Thoughts? Too janky?
    Anytime a Combo deck immune to spot removal, makes itself very vulnerable to any spot removal, there had best be a extremely powerful reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGruber View Post
    Look, I will suck your dick. I will suck your fucking dick. I will do it, just join my team. I’ll suck your dick. You can fuck me or get fucked by me. You can watch me fuck something. Just point at something, I’ll fuck it for you. Just tell me what you want me to fuck!
    ~ Team Unicorn Motto

  5. #1325
    Global Moderator
    mistercakes's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2009
    Location

    Copenhagen
    Posts

    2,274

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Yea that was my fear too Parcher.
    -rob

  6. #1326

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    We are not talking about Nexus of Fate? Super target for CWish who can open a world of design.

    In this deck can be infinitely cast during the combo opening potential win via creatures or through one sided pillars

    We just need a blue Instant who drops creatures

  7. #1327
    bruizar
    Guest

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    How is Will Kenrith's -2 for high tide?

  8. #1328

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Some first thoughts about Spiral tide in the upcoming meta and the meta as a whole.

    With Deathrite Shaman gone the small blue fair deck (deathrite-delver) and the big blue fair deck (deathrite-pile) are beeing replaced by Canadian, Team America, UR-delver and Ux/blade, Leovold midrange, miracles, grixis Control, noble fish. Instead of beeing all the good stuff from each archetype people now have to chose between playing good cards or having a good manabase. With deathrite gone this also opens up for other turn-1 tempo plays like Aether Vial and Goblin Lackey. Stifle will make a comeback because the mana-denial strategy is easier when your average opponent does not have a bird of paradise in play on turn 1. Basic lands will be playable again. Not only because of wasteland/stifle but because a one or two-color deck now can compete in the format where it was previously just underpowered compared to the greedy deathrite-hymn-leovold-Chandra-abrupt decay-swords to plowshares decks.

    Glass-cannon graveyard decks will see less play and slower graveyard based strategies will make a comeback. Without maindeck graveyard hate from Deathrite Shaman I Think the all-in Black red reanimator will take a step back for it's more consistent blue-black cousin. Midrange stuff like Bloodghast, Knight of the Reliquary and Life from the Loam etc will probably see more play too.
    People will obviously pack more graveyard hate in their sideboard so the graveyard based decks will not take over the format at all. Just be a pillar again. It will be intresting to see what this results in since not all graveyard hate is good versus every deck and now they have access to silent gravestone, fatal push etc. From now on we probably play atleast one more graveyard hate in the sideboard than Before.

    With Gitaxian Probe gone the meta will slow down. Gurmag angler shows up later, cabal therapy is less brutal and people will "go for it" less often when playing combo. I don't Think storm is dead at all, quite the opposite with deathrite out of the format and "worse" decks taking it's place. It will just be half a turn slower and better at grinding with past in flames.

    What does all of this mean for Spiral tide?

    I Think the deck becomes a lot better for a number of reasons.

    1) Deathrite delver is out of the format. The Power of DRS did not excel against Spiral tide (we don't use the graveyard as much as other combodecks) but as a whole public enemy number one was an unfavored matchup. Even in the hands of a new player just trading cards 1:1 for 1 or less mana goes a long way against any deck needing resources to win. I was also struggling with finding a reliable plan to beat the Deathrite Shaman decks when they had access to all of the disruption in the format. If I had Defense Grid they would tear my hand apart with Cabal Therapy and if I instead wanted to grind with Predict they had a fast kill. From now on I can better prepare for what I expect to happen.

    2) The less lean decks replacing 4c Delver/Pile will have access to less angles of attack and be atleast a turn slower.

    3) Mana denial is a real strategy again. Canadian, Team america, Death and taxes and maybe even Pox will see some play. We play few fetches and TWELVE basic islands.

    What's worse?

    1) non-leovold Hatebears will see more play out of green decks. Thalia and Gaddock Teeg will show up in more game 1's. These are annoying even though it's the angle of attack that we are least concerned about compared to chalice of the void, countermagic and hymn to tourach. A 2/2 is simply not a clock and they don't stop us from sculpting our hand and making landdrops. As long as we are not dead we can Cunning wish for a bounce spell and go off. Postboard Spirit of the Labyrinth, Ethersworn Canonist and Sanctum Prelate are more troublesome but decks packing those will most likely not have access to discard and counterspells. A force of will and a snap before turn 6 should be all we need.

    2) Esperblade and miracles will make a comeback. These are reasonable matchups but still worth mentioning. A good player with access to discard, hatebears and countermagic is scary. As long as their Clock is True-name Nemesis or Lingering souls it should be ok.

    What will my first Changes to the list be?

    I said that I think the format will slow down as a whole. This is a good thing for a turn 4 deck like Spiral tide but this also means that a lot of other "slow" decks will make a re-apperance. Burn for example has very few cards that we care about but even if it's considered "fair" will kill us before we combo off. Same goes for Merfolk (allthough most lists now play Chalice of the void). For this reason Candelabra of Tawnos looks better than Before.

    On the other hand these fair midrange decks are most likely packing disruption in the form of countermagic and discard spells and to fight that we need card draw. We also need the carddraw in every matchup where we take the role as the Control deck (versus other Control decks and combo).
    It will be intresting to see which angle of attack Speed/value (or both?) we prefer. Grim Flayer somewhere in the curve of Thoughtseizes and Liliana of the veil will kill us eventually unless we go off fast or draw enough cards.

    So Candelabra is probably the biggest change to consider, most likely in the Predict slots. I don't think it's needed but if your goldfish is too slow it's worth looking into.
    It also suffers from beeing weak to stifle, artifact hate (including otherwise "dead" cards as K-command and abrupt decay) and needle/revoker/spyglass.

    There are actually very few changes I will make right of the bat. The only thing I'm quite sure of is to replace the hope of girapuhrs with Defense Grid now that the delver decks no longer has access to birds of paradise and discard spells. Defense Grid is probably the best answer there is to countermagic but it just sucked to play it and getting Cabal Therapied. Defense grid suffers from some artifact hate but if you play it with flusterstorm backup turn 3 most fair blue decks scoops on on the spot. Hope of Girapuhr is still a great card but it requires more setup than Defense Grid. You don't have to worry about bolt, baleful strix and lingering souls. Hope of Girapuhr was nice against show and tell though so it's worth keeping in mind still. Speaking of SnS that deck gained ALOT of traction from the bannings so we might need to consider Swan song again.

    I will also consider Pact of Negation. When the meta is slowing down we probably don't need to counter to stay alive as often as we need to counter protecting our combo. Pre-Drs I used to like PoN as a wish target but it's no longer as reliable because of Flusterstorm.

    Search for Azcanta is also worth revisiting. I really wanted it to be good but in the hyper efficient DRS-meta it was just a 2 mana scry 2 far too often. Now we can probably stay alive long enough for it to flip and OMG then it's nice on the combo turn together with Turnabout.

    TL;DR So I'm very happy with the bannings, I love that Legacy becomes a format with a lot of different decks, I also Think that Spiral tide will be a great choice moving forward. If you have any questsions or disagree with what I just posted please let me know! Meta-shifts cascade into a lot of unpredictable changes and we don't know how fast. For day-1 of the new format I will sleeve up the same list as Before with Defense Grid replacing Hope of Girapuhr and cut 1 predict for a Search for Azcanta to try it out.

    Happy Tidings Indeed! <3

  9. #1329

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Long time Solidarity player, and High Tide player in general. Iirc I got into the format playing Spring Tide, then moved into some other stuff, before full circling back into Solidarity. Sometimes lurk here, but excuse me if I get some things wrong as I'm not used to sorcery-speed High Tide. One of the more interesting things I saw was the adoption of Predict (how crazy is it that Predict slept under everyones noses for so long in the format? I swear that engine could have been played as soon as Lorwyn came out, like 8 years ago. I digress.) I see you mentioned twice cutting Predict though. Is it not one of the more powerful engines in the list?

    I think GY decks are definitely gonna come back, but we still might see a lot of B/R Reanimator now that they don't need to be on the play g1 to get a DRS out of their opponents hand. If the format is slowing down I don't think that's a reason to make people want to play slower decks. This isn't so much a discussion on Spiral Tide, and I think with 4-5 cards in the sb you can definitely handle any variant, but it is tough. The Storm match-up seems to have gotten worse though. They are going to replace their Probes with Thoughtseize. This is madness.

    Slow decks will make a little come-back, and it will have a ripple effect on the rest of the format. What do you think of Mystic Remora instead of Defense Grid? You can drop it t1 to help protect vs an onslaught of spells, or drop it right before comboing off.

  10. #1330

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackan View Post
    Some first thoughts about Spiral tide in the upcoming meta and the meta as a whole.

    TL;DR So I'm very happy with the bannings, I love that Legacy becomes a format with a lot of different decks, I also Think that Spiral tide will be a great choice moving forward. If you have any questsions or disagree with what I just posted please let me know! Meta-shifts cascade into a lot of unpredictable changes and we don't know how fast. For day-1 of the new format I will sleeve up the same list as Before with Defense Grid replacing Hope of Girapuhr and cut 1 predict for a Search for Azcanta to try it out.
    How is your experience now that the meta took some shape? In my experience the matchups against Miracles, Stoneblade, Lands, Depths and NicFit variants are good -maybe in general slow control/midrange. I have a hard time beating fast Delver and Combo decks (SnS) and in particular DnT. Against Reanimator we may be too slow with Cunning Wish -> Surgical. I basically play your list replacing one Flusterstorm with an Echoing Truth and in the Sideboard replacing Titi with 2x Defense Grid, 1x Swan Song, 1x Pact of Negation.

    I like a one of Defense Grid against SnS and play it during the combo turn as a must counter. I am thinking about replacing 2x Grafdigger's Cage with 2x Tormod's Crypt as a way to deal with Emrakul reshuffle triggers and have less cards to "mill" with BSZ. In general, my strategy is to go for the "Brain Freeze" kill as soon as the storm count is >15, if possible with backup mana to draw cards myself to keep the combo going.

    EDIT: After some more games I think control without a clock is not a problem at all. Only when they put up some creatures, combined with discard and counterspells we get in trouble. Therefore I replaced the 2x Defense Grid with 2x Propaganda. Anybody tried this? I think Propaganda is exactly what we need postboard to slow down the clock enough or tap out the opponent.
    Last edited by johnnyEDB; 09-11-2018 at 10:01 AM.

  11. #1331
    Plays green decks
    Jak's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2006
    Location

    Portland
    Posts

    2,184

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    I've been toying a lot with my list and trying to test it against some of the more popular decks; only against myself, though, so I don't put too much weight on the results. Getting back into the game, I am trying to get a feel of how the format flows and how to approach the different matchups. I am excited to get out and play it though. I feel like all games are tough, but you always have a shot.

    Lands - 18
    2 Flooded Strand
    2 Polluted Delta
    2 Misty Rainforest
    12 Island

    The Combo - 11
    4 High Tide
    4 Time Spiral
    3 Turnabout

    Manipulation - 15
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Preordain
    3 Predict

    Tutors - 7
    4 Merchant Scroll
    3 Cunning Wish

    Counters - 6
    4 Force of Will
    2 Flusterstorm

    Flex - 3
    1 Snap
    1 Meditate
    1 Counterspell

    I am never completely in love the combination of the flex slots. A lot of times I have the 4th Predict, or 3rd Flusterstorm, or a Snapcaster Mage that can pair with Snap, etc.

    SB
    1 Blue Sun's Zenith
    1 Brain Freeze
    1 Meditate
    1 Turnabout
    1 Snap
    1 Wipe Away
    1 Echoing Truth
    1 Hurkyl's Recall
    1 Surgical Extraction
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Divert
    2 Teferi's Realm

    I do want to see about the new card.



    I think it deserves a slot in the SB as a wish target. The SB has slots that are in a constant flux as well. Not sure what I want to trim to fit in the card. I like Divert against this Hymn metagame, but Spell Snare, or Mystic Remora could fill the slots.

    Anyway, just thought I would drop by and share my list. Hopefully I can get some ideas or feedback regarding it or the new spoiled card. Thanks all!

  12. #1332

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Anyone here looking at playing Mission Briefing in High Tide?

    Mission Briefing
    UU Instant
    Surveil 2, then choose an instant or sorcery card in your graveyard. You may cast that card this turn. If that card would be put into your graveyard this turn, exile it instead. (To surveil 2, look at the top two cards of your library, then put any number of them into your graveyard and the rest on top of your library in any order.)

    Basically a Snapcaster without a body. I haven't played Legacy in a long time, but this card stands out as potentially helpful for High Tide.

  13. #1333

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide, version, Spiral Tide

    I’d say it’s good. I play it in solidarity, and it works as a mini impulse as well in a pinch. Also, allows us to pitch-force (snapcaster gives the card flashback only) or misdirect if you happen to use it.
    That being said, I think 2-3 copies is probably good. Not sure how spiral tide works too well, but I assume that it’s close enough to solidarity that it’s a good guess.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Legacy decks: mono U painter, strawberry shortcake, imperial painter, solidarity, burn
    EDH decks: zedruu voltron, rakdos the defiler, persistent petitioners, blind seer

  14. #1334

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide, version, Spiral Tide

    Sorry for double posting, but I just realize that you don’t do candelabra of tawnos + capsize? Chuck a capsize on the SB as a wish target and get infinite mana/wipe their board if u so wish.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Legacy decks: mono U painter, strawberry shortcake, imperial painter, solidarity, burn
    EDH decks: zedruu voltron, rakdos the defiler, persistent petitioners, blind seer

  15. #1335

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Hey, just passing by to say that according to THIS ANNOUNCEMENT Teferi's Realm is working correctly on MTGO. I don't know if it's still widely used by this strategy, but some time ago I had bought this deck online and stopped playing because teferi's realm was so good at getting rid of hate. Now this is not a problem anymore.

  16. #1336

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    https://theepicstorm.com/spiral-tide-i/

    let me know what you guys think and what I should add for part 2 :)

  17. #1337

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    I've been trying out a Spellseeker build, using Spellseeker + Snap to generate mana. It's posssible it's too cute, but I really like the toolbox plan that Spellseeker enables.

    High Tide (Spellseeker):

    Maindeck (60)
    4 Spellseeker
    1 Pact of Negation
    4 Brainstorm
    4 High Tide
    4 Ponder
    1 Brain Freeze
    1 Braingeyser
    1 Echoing Truth
    4 Merchant Scroll
    1 Mission Briefing
    4 Snap
    1 Intuition
    4 Turnabout
    4 Force of Will
    4 Time Spiral
    15 Island
    3 Misty Rainforest

    Sideboard (15)
    4 Thing in the Ice
    4 Flusterstorm
    2 Surgical Extraction
    4 Predict
    1 Grafdigger's Cage


    Absolutely not sure about the SB, but given the excellent article is bringing attention to my favorite Storm-ish deck, I figured I'd post it for thought.

  18. #1338
    Member

    Join Date

    Oct 2017
    Location

    Oita, Japan
    Posts

    25

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackan View Post
    https://theepicstorm.com/spiral-tide-i/

    let me know what you guys think and what I should add for part 2 :)
    Thank you for your primer! I have been a long time fan of high tide and have always wanted to build it, but I've been worried that it just wasn't good enough to put up any good results (but I play goblins so I guess I shouldn't complain about decks that aren't super competitive). Thanks for putting those worries to rest!

    As a non high tide player, and as someone who is relatively new to legacy and doesn't have much experience playing against the deck, there are a few things I would like to see in part 2.

    First of all you mention that the deck plays like a control deck, but it's hard for me to understand quite what you mean by that. I see the cunning wishes that can search for bounce spells, and I see the obvious counterspells mainboard, but when I think of control I think of dealing with problems as they arise. Aside from the wishes and counters I'm not sure how the deck deals with those problems. So I guess I'd like to know how to deal with the most common problems the deck encounters, and what the deck doesn't care about. For example when you see a turn 2 thalia and a rishadan port and maybe a mother of runes, what is your usual approach to getting through this situation? That kind of specific info.

    I would also like more of a sideboard guide if possible. For example you could group certain decks into categories and list exactly what you would cut and bring in for those types of matches. Something new players could quickly refer to when learning how to play the deck.

    Finally (and I know it would be more of a pain to do this) I'd love to see you actually play the deck with commentary. Watching skilled players think out loud in real time as they play a variety of decks is really interesting and helpful. Maybe you already have this kind of footage available and I just don't know where to find it haha.

    Anyways really great job, I thoroughly enjoyed reading it and I really feel like putting the deck together to try soon.

    Cheers!

  19. #1339
    Member
    merfolkotpt's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jul 2009
    Location

    Cleveland
    Posts

    107

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    This is a random question, but might lead to some helpful information in the next article. The random question is why no meditate anymore. The larger and more helpful version is, you talked a lot about the cards you play, but not as much about the changes to the deck from what might be expected barring not playing candle sticks.
    @turingTested on twitter
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    これは水である。

  20. #1340

    [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by joaquin View Post
    Thank you for your primer! I have been a long time fan of high tide and have always wanted to build it, but I've been worried that it just wasn't good enough to put up any good results (but I play goblins so I guess I shouldn't complain about decks that aren't super competitive). Thanks for putting those worries to rest!

    As a non high tide player, and as someone who is relatively new to legacy and doesn't have much experience playing against the deck, there are a few things I would like to see in part 2.

    First of all you mention that the deck plays like a control deck, but it's hard for me to understand quite what you mean by that. I see the cunning wishes that can search for bounce spells, and I see the obvious counterspells mainboard, but when I think of control I think of dealing with problems as they arise. Aside from the wishes and counters I'm not sure how the deck deals with those problems. So I guess I'd like to know how to deal with the most common problems the deck encounters, and what the deck doesn't care about. For example when you see a turn 2 thalia and a rishadan port and maybe a mother of runes, what is your usual approach to getting through this situation? That kind of specific info.

    I would also like more of a sideboard guide if possible. For example you could group certain decks into categories and list exactly what you would cut and bring in for those types of matches. Something new players could quickly refer to when learning how to play the deck.

    Finally (and I know it would be more of a pain to do this) I'd love to see you actually play the deck with commentary. Watching skilled players think out loud in real time as they play a variety of decks is really interesting and helpful. Maybe you already have this kind of footage available and I just don't know where to find it haha.

    Anyways really great job, I thoroughly enjoyed reading it and I really feel like putting the deck together to try soon.

    Cheers!
    I’ll try to answer some of the questions you ask (bear in mind, I play solidarity, spiral tide’s insane sibling):

    Control vs not control - I think were confusing terms. High tide is always control (in the context of control vs beat down) because we know that the longer the game goes, the higher our win percentage, no matter what our opponent plays (unless you’re playing against solidarity or another spiral tide deck). When you think control, I think you meant as in creature removal, counters, and other things to reduce opposing tempo. So we are talking about 2 different controls.

    Against thaalia, she doesn’t actually affect me too much - I just combo through her. I imagine spiral tide does so at an even easier rate, since they can end up tapping for 10 mana per island. Heck I’ve had opponents who thought that wasting my only green source would keep me off green - all it does is make me go off in response to that ability dangling on the stack until they die!

    Sideboard guide would be nice to see too. But I guess it’s meta-dependent, and player dependent. For example, I struggle against eidolons and Marit Lages, so I actually run a 1-of dominate on the side to kill eidolon/kill the depths player with. It’s very bad, but it’s a personal failing of mine, but it works for me. The problem with high tide sideboards is that some number of slots are used for the wish board, so you really have to have weaker, but more broad answers to decks that do well against you.

    My high tide matches usually go to time. And then way past that. I’d also be interested to watch a high tide expert pilot a match or two just to see how it goes. But to be honest, it’d be even more amazing watching a game of solidarity and another of spiral tide. The spiral tide game will show a lot of how to actually combo through, whereas watching solidarity will show how to abuse your opponent’s actions in game.

    If I had opportunities to stream, I’d give it a go. Unfortunately, I don’t have the skills to actually teach the skills and nuances, nor do I have the time to do it (life sucks sometimes..).

    I’ll ask those guys at the legacy pit if they’d be able to do a game like that, since they’re the only ones I know of that stream all sorts of decks.

    Also, who doesn’t play meditates anymore? Maybe it’s a transformational sideboard plan, but main deck, 3-4 meditates allow us to churn through cards to keep the combo going. I’ve tried 4 accumulated knowledge before, and thought it was too unreliable, and three wishes is even worse than meditate (since it doesn’t actually draw me anything, and has limited applications pre-combo).



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Legacy decks: mono U painter, strawberry shortcake, imperial painter, solidarity, burn
    EDH decks: zedruu voltron, rakdos the defiler, persistent petitioners, blind seer

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)