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Thread: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

  1. #201

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    I am starting to agree with the main deck meditate. I also think the one in the side is also useful. When you go up against decks like jund or shardless there discard package can really hurt you and sideing in a drawl three spell works wonders.

  2. #202
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Hello everybody!
    I'd like to hear from you about using in the maindeck:

    3 Candelabra of Tawnos
    1 Snap
    2 Turnabout


    Here is my full list:

    MainDeck (60)

    Instants [23]

    3 Flusterstorm
    4 Force of Will
    1 Intuition
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Cunning Wish
    4 High Tide
    2 Turnabout
    1 Snap
    1 Wipe Away

    Sorceries [16]

    4 Merchant Scroll
    4 Ponder
    4 Time Spiral
    4 Preordain

    Artifacts [3]

    3 Candelabra of Tawnos

    Lands [18]

    2 Misty Rainforest
    4 Scalding Tarn
    12 Island

    Sideboard (15)

    3 Pact of Negation
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Rebuild
    1 Wipe Away
    1 Snap
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Ravenous Trap
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Intuition
    1 Turnabout
    1 Brain Freeze
    1 Blue's Sun Zenith

  3. #203
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by Heretic_AntheM View Post
    Hello everybody!
    I'd like to hear from you about using in the maindeck:

    3 Candelabra of Tawnos
    1 Snap
    2 Turnabout


    Here is my full list:

    MainDeck (60)

    Instants [23]

    3 Flusterstorm
    4 Force of Will
    1 Intuition
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Cunning Wish
    4 High Tide
    2 Turnabout
    1 Snap
    1 Wipe Away

    Sorceries [16]

    4 Merchant Scroll
    4 Ponder
    4 Time Spiral
    4 Preordain

    Artifacts [3]

    3 Candelabra of Tawnos

    Lands [18]

    2 Misty Rainforest
    4 Scalding Tarn
    12 Island

    Sideboard (15)

    3 Pact of Negation
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Rebuild
    1 Wipe Away
    1 Snap
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Ravenous Trap
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Intuition
    1 Turnabout
    1 Brain Freeze
    1 Blue's Sun Zenith
    That's 58/60 that Feline used to win the SCG Legacy Open in Nov 2012, so it's a fine list (she ran -1 Intuition -1 Turnabout +1 Meditate +1 Candelabra of Tawnos). I believe she'd swap the Meditate for the Intuition, and she's a big believer in 4 Candelabras.

  4. #204

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Hi all,

    I'm still kinda new to playing High Tide, and I was wondering if there existed some kind of mini-Primer that could give me some tips of order of casting spells (In particular: Brainstrom, Ponder, Preordain and Meditate) I'm still a little lost on whats generally the most optimal order to play these, and I imagine it'd be quite an advantage to know.

    Cheers,
    IM

  5. #205

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by InertMaterials View Post
    Hi all,

    I'm still kinda new to playing High Tide, and I was wondering if there existed some kind of mini-Primer that could give me some tips of order of casting spells (In particular: Brainstrom, Ponder, Preordain and Meditate) I'm still a little lost on whats generally the most optimal order to play these, and I imagine it'd be quite an advantage to know.

    Cheers,
    IM
    This is all based on situations. Read the first page and it gives you a good mind set as to what each card douse and how it benefits you.

  6. #206

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    I am playing the same list as mentioned before today for some tundras. Will post results and such Sunday wish me good luck :D

  7. #207

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by InertMaterials View Post
    Hi all,

    I'm still kinda new to playing High Tide, and I was wondering if there existed some kind of mini-Primer that could give me some tips of order of casting spells (In particular: Brainstrom, Ponder, Preordain and Meditate) I'm still a little lost on whats generally the most optimal order to play these, and I imagine it'd be quite an advantage to know.

    Cheers,
    IM
    If you search up the topic there's a post of mine in which I tried to cover this and to give some information about cantrips. I didn't consider meditate though, just the cantrips. As far as meditate is concerned, if you are 100% sure you won't have mana issues after casting it, and you don't know what's on top of your deck (or you know it and there are good cards) it is always better to meditate FIRST, and only THEN proceed with cantrips, because 1. you dig deeper and 2. you can put back lands & junk with brainstorm, then shuffle it away with preordain/merchant/intu/ponder.

    Edit: it's page 6.

  8. #208

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Went 3-1-1 today made top 8 out of 22 players lost in the first round of top. The deck is missing something I can feel it. Mystic remora made today for me. The card is absolutely absurd. Also a little bit of a damn I'm so good at this moment. Cast meditate drawled 4 then drew another 4 when I hit it off the first BANANAS.

  9. #209

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac View Post
    Went 3-1-1 today made top 8 out of 22 players lost in the first round of top. The deck is missing something I can feel it. Mystic remora made today for me. The card is absolutely absurd. Also a little bit of a damn I'm so good at this moment. Cast meditate drawled 4 then drew another 4 when I hit it off the first BANANAS.
    Glad to hear it. I'm a HUGE proponent of 3 meditate maindeck and 1 in the wishboard, because the card is actually absurd. For every game where you meditate into 4 lands, there's at least 2 games where it singlehandedly wins the game.

    @Heretic_AntheM: Needs more meditate and less intuition. Would you rather draw 4 cards or die to surgical extraction on time spiral? The deck NEEDS an engine other than time spiral, end of story. And meditate is also a killer set up spell as untapping after meditate resolves on their end step typically results in a win due to how much gas you often have in hand after drawing 3 extra cards.
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  10. #210
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Even though I am personally cutting down on Meditate I can not deny that it's still good overall. In that regard, I think it just comes down to personal preferences since, as a whole, High Tide decks are still the same. Run some High Tides, Time Spirals, Islands, Card draw, untap effects, tutors, etc.
    Primary legacy deck High Tide primer

  11. #211

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    I like the 1 of main. In that instance I was playing against urb miracles and I wanted more cards so I slipped the one from the side in. I've noticed a lot of my games run late into the round. Any ideas for shuffling faster? I usually power shuffle and side shuffle.

  12. #212
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    I just shuffle as fast as possible, so I never do that pile shuffling or anything, just shuffle as thoroughly as possible as fast as possible, it's built into my brain to go as fast as possible for some reason, maybe it's good that I play something like this deck.

    In either case, it just comes down to each own's personal shuffling moves, if you feel more comfortable pile shuffling, or some other certain way, then that's all there is to it!
    Primary legacy deck High Tide primer

  13. #213

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac View Post
    Mystic remora made today for me. The card is absolutely absurd.
    1. How does your sideboard look?
    2. Do you think it's gonna help in the ShowAndOmniscience matchup? Yesterday I tested it a bit and it seems incredibly awful. Your best best is to Wish a wipe away and wait; even then, he's so full of counters you can't even expose and try to go off.

    Edit: I also highly support 3+1 meditates, but i'd likely drop one if I had 3 candelabras. Cheap card advantage is always welcome.

  14. #214

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    List I ran at the tourny

    18 land (6 fetch 12 island)
    4 brainstorm
    3 preordain
    4 ponder
    4 merchant scroll
    3 cunning wish
    1 blue sun's zenith
    1 meditate
    4 force
    3 flusterstorm
    1 pact
    4 high tide
    3 turnabout
    3 candelabra
    4 time spiral



    2 mystic remora
    2 spell pierce
    1 meditate
    1 wipe away
    1 echoing truth
    1 snap
    2 surgical extraction
    1 turnabout
    1 intuition
    1 brain freeze
    1 blue sun's zenith
    1 rav trap

    I side mystic in against control burn shardless jund and delver. Basically any deck with hand disruption or any deck that plays a ton of non creature spells. I normally side out 1 candel 1 high tide 1 ponder 1 bstorm 1 preordain. You need those scrolls and time spirals and wishes. Recently though I've been considering sideing out blue suns. It's good getting cards when you have a ton of mana and the combo hasn't gone off completely yet but against a fast deck it's tricky cause you most of the time don't have enough time to cast it.

  15. #215

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    The turnabout at the moment is a hurks recall

  16. #216

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    First of all: This is probably the best Primer I've ever seen. Thanks for the massive amount of info ! :)

    Almost got my Candleless high tide deck together. I'm going to play this list:

    Instants
    4x Brainstorm
    3x Cunning Wish
    3x Flusterstorm
    4x Force of Will
    4x High Tide(A)
    1x Intuition
    2x Meditate
    1x Pact of Negation
    4x Turnabout

    Land
    10x Island(A)
    4x Misty Rainforest
    4x Scalding Tarn

    Sorceries
    4x Merchant Scroll
    4x Ponder
    4x Preordain
    4x Time Spiral

    Side
    1x Ravenous Trap
    3x Surgical Extraction
    1x Blue Sun’s Zenith
    1x Brain Freeze
    1x Echoing Truth
    1x Flusterstorm
    1x Meditate
    1x Mindbreak Trap
    1x Pact of Negation
    1x Rebuild
    1x Snap
    2x Wipe Away

    I still think High Tide is one of the most challenging decks in Legacy. I goldfished a lot with this deck, and pretended my nonexistent 'opponent' had hatebears on board and the like. It's amazing how smoothly you can play around them with high tide. Counter wars are a bit harder to simulate but unless an opponent lucks out and gets a full hand of counters after the first Time Spiral, most of the time you can just 'outcounter' them.

    Another thing I like about the deck: It's, in legacy terms, pretty much a budget deck.

    I've read a lot about how candleless high tide doesn't stand a chance in tourneys compared to lists that run candles. Is it really that bad? Somehow it seems that most expert High Tide players do play Candles. Of course it makes the deck better, but if an expert High Tide player would try a Candleless list, would he fail also? If I look here: http://www.mtgtop8.com/archetype?a=130, I see a couple of Candleless lists that got top8, top 4 even. What are your thoughts on that?

    Either way, I think Candles are just too expensive for what they do (It's an amazing card, I just don't like paying 200+ for 1 ;) ), so I'll probably never buy them. Seems like a cool challenge to get as far as possible without them.

  17. #217

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Hi, idm!

    I am the one who is running Candelabra of Tawnos. but I think you can play the deck very well even without them completely.

    Candelabra helps you do produce mana in a ridiculous speed, so you will be able to hit a lethal Blue Sun's Zenith very fast. also there are so corner cases that Candelabra will you help you a lot(you only have 2 lands, so you can never go off unless you have 1 candelabra in play+_+).

    so that you will see candelabra provides you with speed in this deck, allowing you to go off earlier than usual, at least in my opinion.

    but speed is not always necessary in this deck, as long as you can prevent you opponent from killing you(use your counter-magic to fight threat and use turnabout to timewalk), you will be able to survive into late game. by then you will have more islands in play, allowing you to go off with less risk than before.

    also, your candeless list is very good. just keep practising and good luck! enjoy yourself with this awesome deck!

  18. #218

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Hi ENtreri,

    Thanks for your quick response :). Yeah that's what I thought. It's much quicker. Thanks for the info!

    Hopefully I get the rest of the cards in time to participate on the 2nd of June in a small Legacy tourney. I'll post the results here if I can make it.

    One thing I found when reading (ALOT) about this deck, is that the 4th Turnabout main deck, if you don't have Candles, is really important. After some testing I indeed noticed the deck becoming much much more consistent. Wishing for a Turnabout is pretty expensive and if you can get the mana to do that, most of the time you're already winning. When I tested with 3 turnabouts a while back, I had much more fizzles and it was harder find turnabout to 'timewalk' the opponent before going off. Also 4 cantrips of each helps a lot. The only thing I'm not sure off is the main board intuition.
    Game 1 it's nice, and in game 2 it's boarded out for answers (to prevent getting your Spirals getting Surgically Extracted). Though I found myself having Intuition in my hand and not really needing it, ever. The one thing I can think of when it would be really useful is Merchant Scroll into Intuition into Time Spiral. But even that seems very slow and a venerable tactic.

    Is intuition that important? Maybe I'm missing something because my lack of playtesting against a lot of matchups.

  19. #219

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by idm View Post
    One thing I found when reading (ALOT) about this deck, is that the 4th Turnabout main deck, if you don't have Candles, is really important.
    You probably read my posts. :D Indeed it is. You fizzle way less, and when having 2+ high tides played, wishing for snap becomes as much as efficient, if not more efficient.


    Quote Originally Posted by idm View Post
    (Intuition) Game 1 it's nice, and in game 2 it's boarded out for answers (to prevent getting your Spirals getting Surgically Extracted). Though I found myself having Intuition in my hand and not really needing it, ever. The one thing I can think of when it would be really useful is Merchant Scroll into Intuition into Time Spiral. But even that seems very slow and a venerable tactic.

    Is intuition that important? Maybe I'm missing something because my lack of playtesting against a lot of matchups.
    You are correct once again. Basic sideout plan is -1 high tide, -1 Intuition.
    Basic sideout plan against heavy discard deck is -1 High tide, -1 Intuition, +1 Win Condition. You don't want your Cunning Wishes targeted.

  20. #220

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Cool, I'll trade for an intuition then :).

    How do you all think about the new rules by the way? I thought it could come in very handy to be able to make your sideboard contain one card less and get an extra card mainboard. It could open up some extra options for games 2 and 3? :)

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