Results 1 to 20 of 527

Thread: [Primer/Deck] Belcher

Threaded View

  1. #1
    Member
    feline's Avatar
    Join Date

    Dec 2011
    Location

    USA
    Posts

    586

    [Primer/Deck] Belcher



    Legacy is a format of diversity, a format of extremes, & if you just want to focus on your goals, doing it with one of the more successful "turn 1 combo decks" in the format, because something about killing someone on turn 1 is just so much fun to pull off, then you've come to the right place. On a personal note, this was even my first Legacy deck.

    1) Playing Belcher, the ultimate goal
    2) Successful decklists & trends
    3) Card choices
    3a) Maindeck
    3b) Sideboard
    4) Recross the Paths Belcher (as written by FTW)
    5) Price guide
    6) Awesome links
    7) The previous belcher thread
    : http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...2-Deck-Belcher special thanks to Ewokslayer
    8) 20 Match ups

    1) Playing Belcher, the ultimate goal:
    Your goal as a whole, is to kill the opponent as fast as possible, there's no other way to put it into simpler words. More specifically however, your goal is to be able to produce 4-7 mana, & a kill condition.

    Mulligans. It all starts with the opening hand, the key cards to look for are:
    Goblin Charbelcher (4 mana to cast, 3 to activate, 7 total)
    Empty the Warrens (4 mana to cast, has storm count)
    Burning Wish (2 mana to cast, net an Empty the Warrens, totaling 6 mana overall)
    After that, you check for the number of remaining spells in hand & see the potential mana you can produce in order to cast one of those 3 above noted cards that are your kill conditions.

    -Example- Opening 7: Goblin Charbelcher Lotus Petal Rite of Flame Desperate Ritual Lion's Eye Diamond Tinder Wall Land Grant. Do you see how that's a turn 1 kill? Play Land Grant for free since you have no land in your opening hand, get the single land out of your deck & put it into play, also play the Lotus Petal & Lion's Eye Diamond, tap your land to play the Tinder Wall, then sac the Tinder Wall for 2 red mana, play Desperate Ritual, netting you 3 mana floating, then sac the Lotus Petal to cast Rite of Flame, netting you 2 more red mana, totaling 5, use it (4 cost) to play Goblin Charbelcher, then sac the Lion's Eye Diamond to produce 3 more, using the mana to activate the Belcher at your opponent for the turn 1 kill.

    Game 1's: Against most decks, if you are on the play, you will have no idea what your opponent is playing, the only potential help would come from lists that run Gitaxian Probe but aside from that, your on the play game 1's will often be a shot in the dark as to whether or not your opponent has Force of Will, however, that's about all someone will have if you're on the play, these will be the games you likely win the most, simply because the opponent will be likely unprepared.

    Game 1's on the draw, if they have turn 1 discard they have it, there's not alot you can do about that. As far as what they might have access to for countermagic, in addition to Force of will, look out for things like Daze Spell Pierce Flusterstorm Spell Snare etc, depending on what they're playing, which you'll get a hint as to what they're playing since they will likely play a land on the 1st turn like 99% of most decks in legacy.

    Playing around countermagic, the key number the opponent will likely be looking for is you trying to get to 4 mana, while they can hard counter Burning Wish & Goblin Charbelcher, they can't so easily hard counter Empty the Warrens, because of this, whenever you're against counter magic and have Empty the Warrens, remember they might even try to prevent you from even getting to 4 mana so you can't even cast it, since with it's storm it produces so many copies, so try to get to 3 mana before using a spirit guide for that 4th mana if you can. The other thing to remember against counterspell decks is that you can potentially "bait" them out, as an example, if you have a Lion's Eye Diamond in play, & you cast Burning Wish, they might burn a counter on your Wish because they know, you can still potentially remove a spirit guide from hand, dump your hand to the Lion's Eye Diamond, then have 4 mana & get an Empty the Warrens in which they will not be able to counter traditionally, because of it's storm count.

    Game 2 & 3's: A little tricker, depending on what you are up against, most of your "true" sideboard cards will be anti blue stuff like Xantid Swarm Pyroblast etc. Other times however, it's better to keep your focus & just go for the kill to take them out before their sideboard even becomes relevant. "Wishless" Belcher decks have a higher focus on this, speaking of which...

    Wishless build notes: If you decide to go this route, your goal is overall the same, however your deck should be looked at as a "48 card deck" (since Manamorphose, Gitaxian Probe, Street Wraith draw for "free") Out of those remaining 48 cards, 8 of them are business (Goblin Charbelcher, Empty the Warrens) or, 1 in 6. As far as the sideboard plan goes for these builds, the "wishless" plan remains all in, to just kill them as soon as possible, afterall, their sideboarded in cards are irrelevant if they're dead. This is the reason you see some Belcher decks with a 15 Island or 15 different Atogs sideboard.

    An intro Recommended article of popular demand by fellow Belcher posters
    When one looks at the successful finishes posted by Charbelcher decks in Legacy over the summer, something curious seems to be happening. Almost everyone is playing either 8 or 11 kill cards. No other option seems to be under consideration. Is one of those options better? Is there a reason why nobody has tweaked their deck to have 9 or 10? This article will follow my attempts to answer these questions and my quest to build the best Charbelcher deck ever constructed. Bear in mind that this is about building the deck more than playing it, so those with no understanding of how the deck functions will probably not get as much out of their time...
    For more: http://blog.mtgdeals.com/oarsman/reb...y-charbelcher/

    History:
    Since the making of Goblin Charbelcher it has been used in "turn 1 kill" decks, though more popular in type 1 / Vintage when it first came out, did you know the traditional lists back then were "2 land Belcher?" I was able to find these 2 decklists for Legacy dating all the way back to 2005 if you want to take your research that far: 6th place - Jay Palmer - Syracuse NY. & 15th place - Brian Lusk - Richmond Va. After that, I could find nothing at large scale Legacy events until the end of 2009, starting in this list below, when Belcher made it's 1st top 8 at the Starcitygames Open Series by a Cedric Phillips:

    2) Successful Decklists & Trends: from here http://www.starcitygames.com/pages/decklists/ & http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/for...=Legacy&page=1
    2009:
    6th place - Cedric Phillips - SCG Philadelphia (147 players) 2 Land

    2010:
    8th place - Wilson Fisher - SCG Los Angeles (142 players) 2 Land
    16th place - Roger Fondren - SCG Los Angeles (142 players)
    9th palce - Lukas Parson - SCG Richmond (236 players) 2 Land
    11th place - Cedric Phillips - SCG Indianapolis (286 players) 2 Land
    4th place - Christian Valenti - SCG Atlanta (200 players) 2 Land
    6th place - Christian Valenti - SCG St Louis (193 players) 2 Land

    2011:
    8th place - Ben Perry - SCG Los Angeles (216 players)
    Printing of Mental Misstep in May
    0 decklists
    Banning of Mental Misstep in October
    1st place - Poggesi Luca - Dragonsleague/Tarmogeddon, Padova (125 players)
    14th place - Garett Young - SCG Indianapolis (290 players)
    10th place - Jared Coppage - SCG Nashville (169 players)
    12th place - Garett Young - SCG St Louis (277 players)
    7-0 Legacy portion - Christian Valenti - SCG Invitational Charlotte (316 players)

    2012:
    Winter:
    8th place - Kalle Sundberg - Finnish Legacy Champs 2011 (99 players)
    15th place - Ethan Walker - SCG Los Angeles (180 players)
    12th place - Eugeni Sánchez - 2ş torneo Lliga Catalana (109 players)
    14th place - Joshua Miller - SCG Charlotte (153 players)
    11th place - Garett Young - SCG Memphis (94 players)
    10th place - Gerardo Fedon - SCG Tampa (141 players)
    Spring:
    6th place - Jonas Löb - Legacy Event in Maintal (127 players)
    13th place - Jacob Segmiller - SCG Phoenix (138 players)
    11th place - Slay Hughes - SCG Birmingham (141 players)
    13th place - Garrett Young - SCG Columbus (258 players)
    6th place - Geoffrey Moes - SCG Columbus (258 players) Wishless
    Summer:
    11th - Quinton Ewing - SCG Seattle (187 players) Wishless
    32nd place - Adam LeGear - GP Atlanta (905 players)
    7th place - Gerardo Fedon - GP Atlanta (905 players)
    2nd place - Corbin Rudnick - SCG St Louis (223 players) Wishless
    4th place - Joshua Wiitanen - SCG Las Vegas (223 players)
    20th place - Marek Vardzik - GP Ghent (1,345 players)
    2nd place - Branson Mitchell - SCG Denver (142 players)
    13th place - Marcus Knox - SCG Denver (142 players)
    4th place - David Soriano - 9ş torneo Lliga Catalana, Barcelona (128 players)
    Fall:
    13th place - Jordi Vidal - LCL 2012 Octubre (131 players)
    10th place - Tyler King - SCG Indianapolis (204 players) Wishless
    5th place - Brian Guess - SCG New Orleans (91 players)
    13th place - Carl Hendricks - SCG Dallas (175 players)
    10th place - Zack Meza - SCG Las Vegas (169 players)

    2013:
    6th place - Ben Perry - SCG Columbus (325 players)
    26th place - Mike Augustine - SCG Columbus (325 players)
    2nd place - Griffin Hansen - SCG Atlanta (230 players)
    12th place - Mike Noble - SCG Edison (279 players)
    13th place - Tyle King - SCG Cincinnati (279 players) Wishless
    15th place - Anthony Bub - SCG Las Vegas (142 players)
    3rd place - Ben Perry - SCG Cincinnati (277 players)
    13th place - Jeff Stevens - SCG Cincinnati (277 players)
    5th place - Dustin Klopping - SCG Cleveland (234 players)
    15th place - Jeramiah Alton SCG Cleveland (234 players)
    4th place - Billon Sylvain - BoM 2-Bye Trial 2013 (114 players)

    2014:
    13th place - Kenneth Mangan - SCG Orlando (239 players)
    5th place - Julio Sanna - TeTe Open (113 players)
    19th place - Jeremy Chestnut - SCG Seattle (320 players)
    5th place - Yurien Seyssel - SCG Los Angeles (374 players)
    15th place - Zakk Meza - SCG Los Angeles (374 players)
    14th place - Charlie Edwards - SCG Knoxville (218 players)
    16th place - Eric Jones - SCG Knoxville (218 players)
    10th place - Daniel Brown - SCG Providence (302 players)
    6th place - Sonny Aparicio - SCG Vegas (232 players)
    6th place - Jesse Parnell - SCG Worcester (290 players)
    14th place - Zac Hicks - SCG Atlanta (263 players)

    2015:
    Day 1 undefeated - Ryuichi Shirakihara - GP Kyoto (1,943 players)
    6th place - Karl-Emil Drenck - Danish Legacy Masters (99 players)

    3) Card choices:
    3a) Maindeck:
    Kill conditions: (average #, when ran)
    Goblin Charbelcher (4, staple) Namesake card of the deck, play, target, even with 1 land in the deck it is almost always still lethal
    Empty the Warrens (3, staple) Your secondary kill condition, cast ritual effects, drop an army of 1/1's turn 1, then take your combat steps to victory
    Burning Wish (4, staple) With an Empty the Warrens in the sideboard, this is your other route of action in addition to the other 2 cards, your opening hand should always have 1 of these 3 cards in it.
    Recross the Paths Seen in a rogue version of the deck that placed top 32 in SCG Columbus in 2013, article in the "Awesome Links" section below by the same person that piloted it, Michael Augustine

    "Free" cantrips:
    Gitaxian Probe (4, staple) A cantripping "peek" at the opponents hand, increases storm count, & allowing you to see what they're holding/playing even from game 1 when you're on the play, while drawing a card for free
    Manamorphose (4, seen in multiple lists) A cantripping mana fixer, increases storm count, drawing a card for free, also a staple in "wishless" builds
    Street Wraith (4, seen in fewer lists) Seen mostly in "wishless" builds that have a focus on drawing more, since they don't run Burning Wish

    Permanent mana:
    Land Grant (4, staple) Gets you to your single land for free, also a secondary for Chrome Mox fodder.
    Taiga (1, staple) The 1 land in the deck, a Forces for Land Grant, & a Mountain for when revealed by Goblin Charbelcher, meaning you'll never have to flip more than 10 cards for lethal, & yes, if you reveal your entire library without a land coming up, it does that much damage.
    Chrome Mox (3-4, staple) Your only other recurring, permanent source of mana after your 1 land, also giving you a secondary use for some cards in hand, like when you have 2 Burning Wish for example. Also remember if it "rituals" for a 1 time use of 1 mana, sometimes it's better just to Mox it instead. Also not always a 4 of as it is card disadvantage.

    +1 mana:
    Simian Spirit Guide (4, staple) Free to cast from the hand, producing 1 red mana
    Elvish Spirit Guide (4, staple) Free to cast from the hand, producing 1 green mana
    (Always remember when the opponent knows what you're playing, they'll know you have access to Empty the Warrens, so they might try to counter your last ritual effect that attempts to get you to 4 mana floating, & if you're at 3 mana, they can't traditionally counter a Spirit Guide removed to produce mana, allowing you to Empty the Warrens with storm count, which also can't be traditionally countered.)
    Lotus Petal (4, staple) 0 to cast, producing any color
    Pyretic Ritual (4, seen in most lists) 2 to cast, producing 3 mana total, giving you an increase of +1 red, & +1 storm count
    Chancellor of the Tangle (4, seen in fewer decks)

    +1 mana, with a potential for +2 mana:
    Rite of Flame (4, staple) 1 to cast, potentially giving you +2 mana, if 1 is in the graveyard
    Tinder Wall (4, staple) 1 to cast, potentially giving you +2 mana, if you cast it off a Taiga or Chrome Mox, then wait for 1 turn, as a non traditional bonus, it can also be a blocker for a turn against things like, Goblin Lackey as an example
    Desperate Ritual (4, staple) 2 to cast, potentially giving you +2 mana for it's "Splice onto arcane", if you have 4 mana to cast, & 2 in hand
    Grim Monolith (4, seen in fewer decks) Mostly in older lists, 2 to cast, potentially giving you +3 mana, if you cast it & wait for a turn.

    +2 mana:
    Seething Song (4, seen in multiple lists) 3 to cast, producing 5 mana total, giving you an increase of +2 red, & +1 storm count

    +3 mana:
    Lion's Eye Diamond (4, staple) +3 mana to activate Goblin Charbelcher, or +3 mana when you Burning Wish for an Empty the Warrens. Cast Wish > sac Lion's Eye Diamond in response > +3 mana > get your card from the sideboard. (Just make sure you have mana from another source, or that 4th mana in your pool to cast that Empty the Warrens)
    Out of the "free cantrips" Gitaxian Probe is the most common over Manamorphose & Street Wraith, +1 storm count, +1 card, & access to information, being the opponents hand, on game 1 can sometimes be invaluable

    3b) Sideboard: (average #, when ran)
    More common wish targets:
    Empty the Warrens (1, staple) your 4th copy is always in the sideboard for a lethal wish target
    Goblin War Strike (1, seen in most sideboards) A burn spell based on the # of goblins in play, works well off of Empty the Warrens with a 2nd Burning Wish in hand
    Hull Breach (1, seen in most sideboards) Destroy an artifact (Like Pithing Needle) or an enchantment (Like Ghostly Prison) or both at the same time
    Infernal Tutor (1, seen in most sideboards) Emptying your hand for ritual effects means this is basically a Demonic Tutor for your deck, provided you have enough mana
    Pyroclasm (1, seen in most sideboards) 2 damage to all creatures in play, one of the best sweepers you can ask for with a mana cost of 2
    Reverent Silence (1, seen in most sideboards) "free" to cast, destroying all enchantments, like multiple Leyline of Sanctitys in play
    Shattering Spree (1, seen in most sideboards) Can destroy multiple artifacts in play, great against hate that is artifact based, as well as a use against match ups with lots of artifacts, like MUD, Stax, & Affinity if you are going slow & want to buy more turns
    Other possible wish targets:
    Diminishing Returns (1, seen in some sideboards) A potential draw 7, seen in mostly older belcher lists
    Cave-in (1, seen in few sideboards) "free" to cast version of Pyroclasm
    Tendrils of Agony (1, seen in some sideboards) Sometimes a secondary kill condition, 2 life per storm count
    Ignite Memories (1, seen in fewer sideboards) Though amusing against Show and Tell decks with Emrakul, the Aeons Torn & Griselbrands in hand
    Past in Flames (1, seen in some sideboards)
    Grapeshot (1, seen in fewer sideboards)
    Traitorous Blood (1, seen in fewer sideboards)

    Non Wish targets:
    Xantid Swarm (4, seen in most sideboards) Great against opposing Counterspell strategies, though keep in mind Swords to Plowshares & other cheap removal
    Pyroblast (4, seen in most sideboards) Also great against opposing blue decks
    Red Elemental Blast (2-4, seen in some sideboards) Sometimes people will 2/2 split the blasts
    Carpet of Flowers (2-4, seen in some sideboards) For opposing blue decks
    Autumn's Veil (3-4, seen in some sideboards) Can act similar to a counter & a Silence
    Guttural Response (4, seen in fewer sideboards)
    Mirri's Guile (3-4, seen in fewer sideboards)
    Leyline of Sanctity (4, seen in fewer sideboards)

    4) Recross the Paths Belcher:
    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post

    //precursor mana: 20
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Simian Spirit Guide

    //cantrips: 12
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Street Wraith
    4 Manamorphose

    //further accel: 16
    4 Rite of Flame
    4 Tinder Wall
    4 Desperate Ritual
    4 Seething Song

    //Win: 12
    4 Goblin Charbelcher
    4 Burning Wish
    3 Recross the Paths
    1 Meditate

    //Sideboard: 15
    4 Xantid Swarm
    Empty the Warrens
    Recross the Paths
    Nature's Claim
    Pyroclasm
    Pyrokinesis
    Infernal Contract
    Shattering Spree
    Flame Slash
    Diminishing Returns
    Past in Flames
    Tendrils of Agony



    Who needs to play Goblin tokens?

    You guys have probably seen this version of Belcher before, but for those who haven't, here's an introduction.

    Recross the Paths lets you stack your deck however you want if you have 0 lands. Basically, it's uber-Doomsday. Instead of 11 ways to combo out, you now have 11 ways to Charbelch. Forget making 1/1 tokens that can be killed. Forget passing the turn. You just win now.

    Advantages of Recrossing:
    -less passing the turn
    -doesn't lose to creature hate
    -fewer "fizzle hands" (no multiple land grants; no multiple spirit guides + EtW FTL; can use Chrome Mox without imprinting a critical mana source; not wrecked by Stifle as explained below)
    -0 lands: Belcher never misses
    -better use of sideboard cards: you can set up 1-ofs postboard without needing to wish into them. you can also support non-sorcery answers.

    NOTE: You don't have to win with Recross. You can just win with the usual Belcher hand, and you can still Wish into Empty the Warrens if you want. But I'm only going to discuss the Recross paths to victory here since the others should already be well known.

    Like Doomsday, you want to resolve Recross the Paths with mana floating and cantrips in hand. The exact pile you set up depends on the cantrips you have and the extra mana, if any.

    BASIC BELCH KILL PILE:
    ----top of library----
    *Street Wraith (only if you need to win clash to get Recross back, for imprinting on Chrome Mox or w/e)
    *Setup1 (remaining mana needed to cast Meditate: LED, Manamorphose or Lotus Petal usually)
    Meditate
    LED
    LED
    Setup2 (usually an SSG/ESG/Petal/LED, but if you have extra mana floating this can be a hate-removal card like Cave-In or whatever)
    Street Wraith
    Goblin Charbelcher
    *LED (if you expect Stifle, no harm in a back-up LED to Belch again next turn. also good if opponent Spell Pierces/Dazes Belcher and you run out of mana)
    ----bottom of library----

    Each * represents an optional slot.

    Easy guide to setup 1:
    If you have 3 mana floating and 1 cantrip, setup1 = Manamorphose
    If you have 0 mana floating and 2 cantrips, setup1 = LED
    If you have 2 mana floating and 2 cantrips, setup1 = Street Wraith + Chrome Mox (better to save LEDs for other parts of the chain)
    If you have 1 mana floating and Rite of Flame in GY and 2 cantrips, setup1 = Rite of Flame + Manamorphose

    If you have less, you probably can't go off this turn and should set up a pass-the-turn pile (Wraith + LED on top of Meditate)

    Here's how some of the piles would play out.

    Example 1: you have 0 mana floating and 2 cantrips in hand after resolving Recross:
    LED
    Meditate
    LED
    LED
    Lotus Petal
    Street Wraith
    Charbelcher

    You cantrip once. Drop LED. Cantrip again, popping LED in response for UUU. Draw and cast Meditate. Drop LEDs and Petal. Cycle Wraith, popping for 7 mana in response. Draw and activate Charbelcher. If you only had 1 cantrip in hand instead of 2, you can make this a "pass the turn" pile.

    Example 2: you have RR floating, Chrome Mox in hand and only 1 cantrip
    Street Wraith
    Manamorphose
    Meditate
    LED
    LED
    Lotus Petal
    Street Wraith
    Charbelcher

    You win the clash off Recross (usually). Drop Chrome Mox, imprinting Recross, GRR in pool. Use cantrip to draw Street Wraith. Street Wraith to draw Manamorphose. Manamorphose to convert your mana into URR. Cast Meditate. Etc. Win.


    Example 3: you have 2 mana floating, only 1 cantrip, and Meditate stuck in hand
    Manamorphose
    Rite of Flame
    LED
    LED
    Lotus Petal
    Street Wraith
    Charbelcher

    Cantrip into Manamorphose, making UR and drawing Rite of Flame. Rite of Flame up to at least URR. Cast Meditate FTW.

    Contrary to what Griffin Hansen said, you don't auto-lose with Meditate in hand. You just can't use the LED+2cantrip set-ups.



    If you have fewer resources, you can still set up a kill in a few turns as a Hail Mary. Passing the turn 2 times and Belching immediately may actually not be worse than casting Empty the Warrens for 8-12 this turn.

    Example 4: you have 0 mana floating and no cantrips
    LED
    Gitaxian Probe
    Meditate
    LED
    LED
    SSG
    Street Wraith
    Charbelcher

    This involves passing the turn twice. But then, when you have LED and Probe, you can cantrip into Meditate, cast Meditate, and Charbelch FTW. This shows you can still set up a 2-turn win even with 0 resources post-Recross, making mulligans to 5-6 and playing through Daze not auto-losses. Keep in mind EtW takes at least 2 attacks to win so this "bad case" is not any slower. Also, with even one cantrip you only have to pass the turn once.


    Example 5: you have 0 mana floating and 1 Street Wraith. opponent has Thalia and Ethersworn Canonist but no other clock.
    SSG
    Seething Song
    Cave-In
    LED
    Gitaxian Probe
    Meditate
    LED
    LED
    ESG
    Street Wraith
    Charbelcher

    You pass the turn and take 4. Draw SSG. Take 4. Draw Seething Song. Street Wraith into Cave-In, pitch Seething Song and use SSG to cast Cave-In to kill the hatebears and any other dorks. Pass the turn. LED. Pass the turn. Probe into Meditate FTW. Yeah, yeah, it takes 4 turns. But it beats just losing to double storm hate.



    If opponent drops Needles or Revokers or has some other kind of protection from Belcher, you CAN set up convoluted piles with extra mana and extra card draw and Burning Wishes to find answers, but it's easier to just Tendrils them instead.

    BASIC TENDRILS PILE
    ----top of pile----
    *Street Wraith
    *Setup1
    Meditate
    LED
    LED
    Flex Slot
    Gitaxian Probe
    Manamorphose
    Manamorphose
    Manamorphose
    Burning Wish
    ----bottom of pile----

    Top two cards are as discussed earlier to set up Meditate. Crack LEDs for RRRGGG, Probe to see opponent's grip to ensure the coast is clear, cantrip to build storm count, converting to have at least 2 black mana, and then Tendrils with storm 10+. Note that Wish for Tendrils only takes 6 mana (2 LEDs) instead of the 7 for Belcher, so you have a flex slot for either more mana (to play around spell pierce/daze) or for an anti-hate card if you have the resources floating to cast it.


    If you need to Tendrils through Leyline or some other hate, you can make this pile:
    ----top of pile----
    *Street Wraith
    *Setup1
    Meditate
    LED
    LED
    LED
    Gitaxian Probe
    Burning Wish
    LED
    Lotus Petal
    answer card
    Manamorphose
    Manamorphose
    Manamorphose
    Manamorphose
    Burning Wish
    ----bottom of pile----

    Meditate into triple LED for RRRGGGBBB. Probe into Wish into Infernal Contract, drawing four with RRGG floating. Lotus Petal. Cast your answer card (Pyroclasm, Nature's Claim, Wish into something, whatever). LED for BBB, cantrip to build storm, Tendrils for 15+ storm.


    If you need to kill a Leyline AND win around Gaddock Teeg, the last pile works too, but Grapeshot might be easier.
    BASIC GRAPESHOT PILE
    ----top of pile----
    *Street Wraith
    *Setup1
    Meditate
    LED
    LED
    LED
    Gitaxian Probe
    Gitaxian Probe
    Gitaxian Probe
    Burning Wish --> Infernal Contract
    Seething Song
    Seething Song
    Manamorphose
    Burning Wish -> Hull Breach
    Manamorphose
    Manamorphose
    *Gitaxian Probe/Manamorphose
    Burning Wish -> Grapeshot
    ----bottom of pile----

    Make RRRGGGBBB with LEDs. After Infernal Contract, you have RRGG left. Double Seething Song up to RRRRRRRG, Wish into Hull Breach with RRRR left, cantrip some more, then Wish into Grapeshot for 20.


    If opponent has Needle/Revoker on LED or Null Rod or a Deed/EE@0 or some other artifact hate to stop you from using triple LED, you can do this:

    RITE OF FLAME PILE -- Needs +1 initial mana or 1 Rite of Flame already in graveyard
    ----top of pile----
    *Street Wraith
    *Setup1
    Meditate
    Rite of Flame/SSG
    Rite of Flame
    Rite of Flame
    Goblin Charbelcher (or 4 Manamorphose + Burning Wish + Tendrils)
    ----bottom of pile----

    Triple Rite of Flame = 7 red mana, the magic number. You just need an additional 1 red precursor mana. If you already cast 1 Rite of Flame before Recross the Paths, you don't need the extra mana -- you can just use an SSG to get started, your 2 Rites will conveniently net +5 mana up to 6, and then you can pick the Tendrils win. Also a nice way to beat Null Rod.


    Finally, I will post one pile of hilarity (Requiring slightly different deck configuration -- 1 Faithless Looting in SB and boarded in):

    The LOLpile:
    ----top of pile----
    *Street Wraith
    *Setup1
    Meditate
    LED
    LED
    LED
    Gitaxian Probe
    Burning Wish -> Infernal Contract
    Seething Song
    LED
    Faithless Looting
    Rite of Flame
    Rite of Flame
    Rite of Flame
    Rite of Flame
    Manamorphose
    Manamorphose
    Manamorphose
    Manamorphose
    Past in Flames
    Seething Song
    Seething Song
    Seething Song
    Desperate Ritual
    Desperate Ritual
    Desperate Ritual
    Desperate Ritual
    Burning Wish --> Answer card 1
    Burning Wish --> Answer card 2
    Answer card 3
    Answer card 4
    Lotus Petal
    Burning Wish
    ----bottom of pile----

    Alright, what in the hell's name is this monstrosity? First thing's first: close the blinds, because this is some hardcore masturbating.
    Meditate as usual, stack Probe and crack the LEDs for RRRGGGBBB.
    Wish into Infernal Contract and draw 4.
    Cast Seething Song up to RRRRRG.
    Faithless Looting, discarding 2 Rite of Flame.
    Flashback Faithless Looting discarding 2 Rite of Flame, with RG left.
    Manamorphose and crack LED for RRR (plus RR when Manamorphose resolves).
    Manamorphose some more.
    Draw into Past in Flames and cast it with R floating.
    Quad Rite of Flame and Seething Song up to 13 red mana.
    Manamorphose 4 times to draw 4 cards and filter your mana into whatever colors you want (making sure to create at least BBBBU).
    Cast the 3 Seething Songs up to 19 mana.
    Cast Meditate to draw 4, down to 16 mana.
    Cast Infernal Contact to draw 4, down to 13 mana.
    Cast quadruple Desperate Ritual, Splicing onto Arcane as much as possible. That should bring you to 23 mana if done correctly.
    Burning Wish for Pyroclasm to kill all hatebears. (19 mana)
    Burning Wish for Hull Breach or Shattering Spree to kill a bunch of hate permanents. (13-15 mana)
    Cast 2 more kill spells for the hell of it. (10+ mana)
    Flashback Past in Flames. (5+ mana)
    Flashback triple Seething Song and Quad Desperate Ritual for +10 mana. (15+ mana)
    Flashback some more kill spells. (5+ mana)
    Lotus Petal and pop for B.
    Flashback Probe into Burning Wish.
    Tendrils/Grapeshot with storm 57+

    You probably never need that pile ever. But if you want to kill a whole crapload of random protection and 5 players at once, who's to stop you?
    5) Price guide of more common Belcher cards: As of March 2013 (For the most current prices, click on the link of each card) High-Mid-Low according to http://magiccards.info/ & http://magic.tcgplayer.com/all_magic_sets.asp
    $50.00+ average:
    Lion's Eye Diamond $89.98 $71.97 $62.66
    Taiga (Revised) $79.98 $59.99 $54.17

    $20.00 to $50.00:
    Burning Wish $25.97 $20.90 $16.75

    $10.00 to $20.00:
    Chrome Mox $15.44 $13.91 $12.40

    $5.00 to $10.00:
    Infernal Tutor $8.23 $5.99 $3.43

    $2.00 to $5.00:
    Goblin Charbelcher $7.97 $4.13 $3.30
    Lotus Petal $4.49 $3.19 $2.46
    Street Wraith $4.47 $3.29 $1.95
    Elvish Spirit Guide $5.87 $3.88 $3.20
    Shattering Spree $3.99 $3.48 $2.49
    Xantid Swarm $4.10 $2.49 $1.95
    Rite of Flame $3.80 $2.36 $1.59
    Manamorphose $3.91 $2.89 $2.00
    Past in Flames $4.95 $2.42 $1.42

    $1.00 to $2.00:
    Seething Song $2.99 $1.81 $0.76
    Tendrils of Agony $2.32 $1.23 $0.53
    Carpet of Flowers $1.53 $1.00 $0.59

    $1.00 or less average:
    Empty the Warrens $1.53 $0.74 $0.38
    Gitaxian Probe $1.23 $0.52 $0.30
    Land Grant $1.19 $0.63 $0.36
    Simian Spirit Guide $1.22 $0.71 $0.42
    Tinder Wall $0.88 $0.26 $0.14
    Pyretic Ritual $0.78 $0.26 $0.08
    Desperate Ritual $1.95 $0.94 $0.65
    Pyroblast $1.07 $0.53 $0.30
    Red Elemental Blast $0.78 $0.26 $0.10
    Diminishing Returns $1.99 $0.56 $0.24
    Reverent Silence $0.69 $0.27 $0.09
    Pyroclasm $1.00 $0.36 $0.20
    Goblin War Strike $1.38 $0.30 $0.19
    Hull Breach $0.50 $0.32 $0.23

    6) Awesome Links: In relation to Belcher & Legacy
    Price trends of singles:
    http://www.mtgprice.com/sets/Mirrodi...in_Charbelcher

    Belcher articles/reports/etc:
    2013:
    http://starcitygames.com/events/cove...iffin_han.html Feature match, Belcher in the finals, SCG Atlanta (Griffin Hansen)
    http://legitmtg.com/competitive/stac...cks-on-stacks/ Article, Recross the Paths Belcher that made top 32, SCG Columbus (Michael Augustine)
    2012:
    http://www.eternalcentral.com/?p=3281 Podcast from Serious Vintage, covering Belcher. With Nat Moes, Geoff Moes & Josh Chapple.
    http://blog.mtgdeals.com/oarsman/reb...y-charbelcher/ Article, Belcher (oarsman/Joe Lossett)
    http://www.starcitygames.com/events/...orbin_rud.html Feature match, Belcher in the finals, SCG St Louis (Corbin Rudnick)
    http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazin...tl12/welcome#2 Feature match, Belcher in the top 8, Grand Prix Atlanta (Gerardo Fedon)
    http://www.gatheringmagic.com/andofe...time-to-belch/ Article, playing the Belcher deck (Ando Ferguson)
    http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazin...gpind12/day2#7 Deck Tech from GP Indianapolis (Nathan Connor)
    http://www.eternal-central.com/?p=2807 Tournament report, SCG Columbus top 8 (Geoffrey Moes)
    2011:
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-A-long-Report Tournament report, SCG Los Angeles top 8 (everythingitouchdies/Ben Perry)
    2010:
    http://www.eternal-central.com/?p=659 Tournament report, Belcher in the finals, GenCon Indy 2010 (Matt Hazard)
    http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...arbelcher.html Deck Tech back when it was 2 Land Belcher (Cedric Phillips, Calosso Fuentes)

    Belcher decklist sources:
    Starcitygames.com Belcher decklists 2009-to-today
    http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/tip...&format=Legacy

    Legacy metagame:
    http://www.starcitygames.com/pages/decklists/
    http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/for...=Legacy&page=1
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...(started-2012)

    7) The previous Belcher thread: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...2-Deck-Belcher started by Ewokslayer with about 6 years worth of Goblin Charbelcher information, starting all the way back in mid 2007. Special thanks Ewokslayer, & to all that took part in the discussion & helped fill the thread with valuable information over all this time.
    Page 65 has some discussion about Recross the Paths
    Last edited by feline; 11-23-2015 at 10:39 AM. Reason: Update
    Primary legacy deck High Tide primer

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)