In what situation would you ever play Recross the Paths Belcher over traditional? It just seems more fragile overall for the most part.
“There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle".
- Albert Einstein
It is less stable overall, but I consider the tradeoff worth it in any matchup where a bunch of Goblins aren't guaranteed to get there by turn 3 (meaning most of them postside). Being more fun to play than traditional Belcher helps as well.
I participated in a 4rounder legacy here
My MUs were
W: sneaky, sneaky and esper
L: AnT
Might consider this for our monthly legacy (which will be next sunday).
I used a no sb belcher. Both belcher and etws are in my main.
TJB
http://deartiyopaeng.blogspot.com/ <---- (updated) MTG related blog. ^_^
TES: 102nd out of 2000 players at GP Kyoto 2015 (Legacy)
UR Storm: 37th of 950 players at GP Guangzhou 2016 (Modern)
Taking Blecher to the SCGOpen in KC this weekend, and will report on how it goes.First time running it with the wishes since I couldn't find them before the last one, so I am happy to finally be running the full deck. Anyone else heading to the Open?
I took Belcher to the Open last weekend in Baltimore. In 9 rounds, I went 5-4, going 5-2 before dropping the final 2 rounds. My games were
Rd1: ANT (W 2-1)
Rd2: Shardless BUG (L 2-0)
Rd3: Lands (W 2-1)
Rd4: ANT (W 2-1)
Rd5: ANT (L 2-1)
Rd6: BUG Delver (W 2-1) (won G3 with Grapeshot)
Rd7: Death and Taxes (W 2-1)
Rd8: Elves(Ross Merriam) (L 2-1)
Rd9: Elves (L 2-0)
All in all I feel pretty good about continuing to play this deck in these tournaments. I got pretty lucky though dodging FOW pretty much all day.
Side note: I am 0-4 against Elves. I don't know why I cannot beat that deck.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Against elves, I normally loo and pray for a belcher route. ETW route cannot out run elves. And since you mentioned Grapeshot, I bet you have Burning Wishes in your build, go for Tendrils. Good job on the open. Can you do a brief report, sharing what you can still remember, from your weekend’s open. Thanks!Originally Posted by chainedcurses
TJB
http://deartiyopaeng.blogspot.com/ <---- (updated) MTG related blog. ^_^
TES: 102nd out of 2000 players at GP Kyoto 2015 (Legacy)
UR Storm: 37th of 950 players at GP Guangzhou 2016 (Modern)
Quick report from SCG Open KC:
Had a blast playing the deck especially since this was my first time running the Burning Wish version, it really did open up a lot of things
Round 1 L 1-2
Junk Deathblade: Just had nothing going the second two games after a pretty awesome game one, turn 2 and 3 Hymn to Tourach after mulling to 5 but still stormed out to make 10 goblins for the win. It was pretty fun for everybody. But games 2 and 3 had me up against alot more hate, and couldn't quite get there.
Round 2 W 2-0
Death and Taxes: These games went by really quick. Game 1, had a probe to let me see a hand of Waste, 2x Vail, 2x Plains, Mother of Runes, and an Aven Mindcensor. Seeing nothing to worry about I had a turn 1 hand and we moved to game 2, which went much like the first he dropped a plains and a Mom but another probe let me see another hand with no answers, but he had some of his sideboard cards, Thalia, Revoker, Ethersworn Canonist, but I had another good hand.
Round 3 W 2-1
Lands: These were fun games and I hadn't thought about this match up really. I got surprised by the Glacial Chasm off a crop rotation in response to my cracking LED to activate Belcher. But the deck is slow and my good hands won me the game.
Round 4 L 0-2
Elves: There were scary fast and I had to mull down pretty far. With having more EtWs then Belchers this match up was hard since their creatures are better. This was the first game of the day where I was starting to doubt the wisdom of 4 Chrome Mox, they just always seemed like bad top decks.
Round 5 W 2-0
Death and Taxes: This game was much like the first, they don't have much to interact with you game 1, and game 2 I knew I had to go belcher since storming was hard with their storm hate, got to drop some early artifacts, including a LED. Got the Belcher off the topdeck right after they dropped Canonist, with 7 mana on board.
Round 6 L 1-2
Burn: This shouldn't have been a bad match up but a case of bad hands and awful draws left me with a blind activation of Belcher as my only win and Taiga was the 10th card, letting them win it before I could activate again. It was also against a friend I had come to the tournament with so that was no fun.
Round 7 L
Can't remember what I faced here, or the record, sorry.
Round 8 L 1-2
MUD: Game 1 was good but they are quick to build a board and no number of goblin tokens could fight through Wurmcoils or Batterskulls. Not to mention a Sundering Titan wearing a Batterskull
Round 9 W 2-0
Sneak and Show: Won the first game off a quick storm and lost game 2 to Emmy + Grizz, plus Daze and Spell Pierce to back it up. Game 3 I had a good hand that let me fight through, Xantid swarm ate a FoW round 1 and when I cast Belcher a turn or two later 2 Brainstorms and a Ponder couldn't find another one.
So not the best record 4-5 but it was a blast, going to play with the Chrome Moxes. Thanks for all the help in this thread, I really felt that I played pretty smartly and the games that I lost were either to blame on bad draws or slow hands, I can't think of to many play mistakes on my part, though I am sure I made some.
I guess I should start with my list. I think it's a pretty typical Belcher list with Burning Wishes.
4x Tinder Wall
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Lotus Petal
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Chrome Mox
4x Rite of Flame
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Desperate Ritual
4x Land Grant
4x Manamorphose
4x Seething Song
4x Goblin Charbelcher
4x Burning Wish
3x Empty the Warrens
1x Stomping Ground
SIDEBOARD
4x Xantid Swarm
4x Guttural Response
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Past in Flames
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Goblin War Strike
1x Grapeshot
1x Hull Breach
1x Void Snare
My Open weekend started Saturday night when I packed up myself and my 3 kids and made the hour drive to Baltimore. I luck out in that regard as my mom still lives down there so free food and lodging! Sunday morning I got to the event hall a little before 8, bought my copy of Void Snare and paid my entry fee. I was a bit nervous because Belcher had been not so small lately and I was afraid there might be a larger concentration of evil decks. For the record, my tournament Pandora station was Rammstein Radio. As they call for round 1, I'm in the midst of Feuer Frei! (this will be relevant in a second). I get my table number and make my way over, just as I take my phone from my pocket to pause the song... it ends. Alright good mood now from that perfect timing.
Round 1: ANT (W; 2-1)
Game 1: On the draw, I make some number of goblins. He plays much like Sneak and Show until he makes a land drop of Gemstone Mine. This tips me off to a storm deck. He can't get there with the goblin beatdowns
Game 2: No sideboarding in this one, he makes me discard the opening hand win con on turn 1. I never draw another one.
Game 3: Turn 1: Belcher. Activate. Win.
After the round, I catch up with a few buddies. I'm jamming away when round 2 pairings go up.
Round 2: Shardless BUG (L; 2-0)
Game 1: On the play, Mull to 6, get Belcher forced.
SIDEBOARDING:
-2 Land Grant
-1 Tinder Wall
-1 Chrome Mox
+4 Xantid Swarm
Game 2: On the play, I probe him revealing a hand with 0 counterspells or Golgari Charms. I exile Elvish Spirit Guide and cast Xantid Swarm, despite having the ETW storm out in my hand. Misplay central over here, I never draw another mana source to get my storm started.
After the round, I'm very ticked off at myself. I have a smoke, eat some beef jerky, and jam out in preparation for my 8-1 and top 8.
Round 3: Lands (W; 2-1)
Game 1: On the draw, Belcher. Activate. Win.
Game 2: No sideboarding for this one either, I turn 1 16 goblins on the draw. He topdecks Tabernacle. A few turns later, it's Marit Lage vs. a goblin... I think we know who wins in THAT battle.
Game 3: Back on the play, I make turn 1 belcher with no activation mana. Draw: Burning Wish, Burning Wish. Luckily he doesn't kill me in this time, and I draw LED. Play, crack, activate Belcher. Opponent responds by casting Crop Rotation on one of his lands to search out Glacial Chasm. At this point, I figure he's locked me out with Exploration and then he only needs a Loam, but I do not concede. I flip Mox, Land. I pass turn, he opts not to pay for his Chasm. Loams back a Wasteland, the Chasm, and something else. He makes his land drops: Wasteland. Grove of the Burnwillows. He passes turn. I flip LED off the top, activate Belcher again. no Crop Rotation this time as he takes all the damage.
So at this point, I'm 2-1 and feeling good. I get Cedric to sign my Empty the Warrens, and he promises me some of his Goblin tokens after the next round.
Round 4: ANT (W; 2-1)
Game 1: On the play, Goblins get there.
Game 2: On the draw, I storm out on turn 1 for Gobbos. He takes advantage of my lowered life total and Tendrils me for exactly lethal.
Game 3: On the play, Turn 1: Belcher. Activate. Win.
Stoked because I'm 3-1 and my 7-1 is very viable at this point. I get 10 signed Cedric Phillips tokens eat some more Jerky, jam out and mentally prepare to rattle off the 4 straight wins needed. I see Feline slightly before the pairings go up and have her sign my proplaymat. She gives me a hi-5 for being X-1 with Belcher.
Round 5: ANT (L; 2-1)
Game 1: On the draw, I see fetch, sea, ponder. I go off with Belcher on my turn.
SIDEBOARDING:
-2 Land Grant
-1 Tinder Wall
-1 Chrome Mox
+4 Guttural Response
Game 2: Mull to 6 on the draw. He T1 Thoughtseizes my Burning Wish (the win con). Never draw another, his Tendrils hurt a lot.
SIDEBOARDING:
Return to main deck configuration.
Game 3: Mull to 5 on the play, keep a hand that can make 6 goblins. Turn 1, I probe him, seeing a hand that is nowhere close to going off. I opt out of the rest of the storm for more Goblins. He topdecks Thoughtseize, nabs my ETW. A few turns later, I haven't drawn a win condition so I cast an Elvish Spirit Guide. I beat down with the ESG and a judge walks up behind me, looks at our board state and asks if the ESG is in play. I give him the affirmative and he sits down to enjoy ESG beats.... but the opponent goes off next turn.
After my longest ever round with Belcher (we finished with left 7 minutes on the clock), I eat some jerky and prepare for my 7-2 top 16 performance.
Round 6: BUG Delver (W; 2-1)
Game 1: On the draw, see fetch, trop, brainstorm. Belcher. Activate. Win.
SIDEBOARDING: See Last Round
Game 2: On the draw, lose to Goyfs after getting Belcher forced.
SIDEBOARDING:
-4 Guttural Response
+4 Xantid Swarm
Game 3: Here is the Grapeshot game. On the play, exile ESG, Xantid Swarm. It resolves and I pass turn. He goes draw-land-go. I get the turn back and attack. Nothing doing, pass turn. He plays draw-land-Delver of Secrets. On my turn I know I need to do something in order to get the Delver gone or I have no shot anymore in this game. I attack, trigger Swarm, then storm up for Grapeshot plus 6 copies. 1 targets Delver, 6 go to the dome. We go back to draw-go for a while. I probe and see Land, Land, Pierce, Pierce, Daze. Glad I protected that Swarm! A few turns later, I probe again and he's added a Force to the mix. We go another few turns, and I'm ready to make Goblins. I declare the attack with my Swarm, his hand shoots up and he calls for a judge. Asks the Judge is if Swarm is a trigger. Get the affirmative, stifle the trigger. I pass turn. Next turn I draw Song, attack with the Swarm, trigger, no stifle. I go rite, ritual, ritual, song, wish, past in flames, rite then I ask a just to confirm if the rite sees itself in the GY when casting (I did not think it did, but I wanted to confirm because of things like Golgari Grave-Troll, which will see itself). As the Judge is double-checking(BTW it doesn't), I show my opponent my graveyard, pointing out how I have him dead on the Grapeshot, so he scoops.
I was stoked to be on the run for 7-2! I told all my buddies about Grapeshot, because they laughed when I showed it to them in the board. Jerky, Smoke, Jams.
Round 7: Death & Taxes (W; 2-1)
Game 1: On the draw, I make 12 goblins. He drops SFM, fetches Batterskull. I cannot compete.
Game 2: No sideboarding, Belcher. Activate. Win.
Game 3: No sideboarding, Belcher. Activate. Win.
The Jerky is gone. I'm 5-2. Top 64 needs to happen, especially after 68th and the tiebreaker heartbreak last time. Pairings hit Twitter. iPhone out, Twitter up. Ross Merriam... Elves... dangit.
Round 8: Ross Merriam with Elves (L; 2-1)
Pre-game 1 I get Ross to sign my proplaymat
Game 1: Make goblins, he can't get there by the time they kill him. Woo! Get the Elvish Monkey off my back this round! Let's do it!
Game 2: Mull to 5 (yes, it was that bad) still keep a possible T1 10 goblins... until he soul reads my ETW with a Therapy. A turn or 2 later, natural order for hoof and I'm dead.
Game 3: Turn 1 Belcher. No Activate. Hand's empty. All I need is the mana, draw nothing but win cons. I die to the hoof with a hand of something like Belcher, Wish, ETW, Belcher. I refused to peek at the top card, I didn't want to know.
I remark to Ross as we're leaving the table. "I bet I get paired against Elves again. I can't beat your deck for some reason." We both chuckle and part. Jams, last smoke. Let's do it.
Round 9: Elves (L; 2-0)
Game 1: Mull to 5. Am I playing against Elves again? My deck never cooperates against Elves. Opponent goes Bayou, DRS. Brain says "OK, just another BUG deck. You've already beat 1 today." I can't go off on my turn 1 and pass the turn. Turn 2 for the opponent goes, Verdant, Crack for Forest, Glimpse, Visionary. Brain says "Well, here we go again." He drops me.
Game 2: Mull to 6. T1 nothing. Opponent therapys my Belcher. Brain says "See! I told you!" He's got a few things out and I go and make 26 (yes, TWENTY SIX) goblins. He takes his next turn and NOs for Hoof. I'm at 10, he's attacking for... 26! I block to clear his board of his attackers, which sweeps my stuff. We immediately start speaking of how I should have left myself some attackers and taken some of the damage... Which he was right about. A few turns later, GSZ for Hoof ends my day.
I know, I remember a lot for being as far back as it was. I hope that my next tournament I run better than I did here at the end. I'll probably be representing our great deck at GP Jersey next.
Thanks for the recap of yoru Open, always nice to read other people's experience.
How are you liking the Void Snare? I was talking about it with someone the other day and they were sad it wasn't an instant and I explained why I was glad it was sorcery, but I never made the leap to Belcher Board with it. It would be a handy piece of tech at times I think.
It never came up, but I like having that option. It's smoother than Chain of Vapor because we don't have to dilute our deck in order to play it, so I'm happy to keep it there as opposed to anything else ATM.
Hey Guys I'am new to the deck,
Played it yesterday on a weekly mtg evening with friends played 6 matches these were the matches
Mud: 2-1
Lands: 2-0
Death and Taxes: 1-2 drew 8 cards without a mana spell:( so that was verry lucky on his side i guess i win at least 4 out of 5 vs D&T
Elves: 2-1 turn 1 18 creatures to mutch for elves
Miracles: 0-2 (thats problably my worst matchup)
Patriot: 1-2 (stifles fow spell pierces en dazes)
I play the standard wishless build. With only 4 sideboard card.
I would like ur guys oppinion about gutteral response vs autumns veil.
Since i only play 4 sideboard cards and i want the best card for the meta i'am not sure what to choose.
My instinct says its Autumns veil because it can not only stop counterspells, but also golgari charms and toxic deluge.
I also would like to know what to board out when sideboarding......
Sunday iam going to a legacy tournament with around 40/50 people. First time i take this deck to a tournament (used to play winstigator). I will take notes of that tournament and post them here on monday.
Thx in advance for all the feedback
Autumn's Veil doesn't actually stop Deluge or Charm since neither card actually targets your creatures. In a wishless build, I'd run 4 Guttural Responses and 4 Xantid Swarms as the sideboard. I normally side in Swarms on the play and Responses on the draw. My typical board out plan(I am running LEDs and Wishes.) is -1 Chrome Mox -1 Tinder Wall and -2 Land Grant.
Good Luck in your tournament. Hopefully you do well! Look forward to seeing your report.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thx for the response,
I like the cards u boarding out and never knew what to board out;)
So i guess i go for the guteral response. Does anyone play without a sideboard? Because for every card u board in u have to board out a piece of the puzzle. Isnt the main deck not just strong enough? And when your opponent has force of will he has it not mutch u can do about it. Or is that just to easy thinking of me???
Do we actually have a bigger chance (read big enough chance) against for example mirracles or rug/bug when we side in a set of gutteral response.
Or should we just go all in on the combo and see what happends?
4 Carpet of Flower is insane in this deck. If you have infernal tutor in the sideboard it allows you to play the late game and your wishes become a belcher kill.
isnt carpet of flowers more something for the ANT deck. We just want to go off turn 1 mabey 2 or else go to the next game:P
Carpet of Flowers just seems too slow. We don't want a late game with Belcher. What's that old saying?
"Early game is shuffling, mid game is mulligans, late game is turn 1"
Or something like that. That is Belcher's gameplan. I can't think of a game I've played with the deck, win or lose, where I've wanted a Carpet.
Also with the way the deck works, I cannot see what cards we would cut for them. I've played both wishless and wish Belcher and I think the cards in the deck lists are pretty set at this point unless we can get a good red ritual or something like Manamorphose again.
That's just my thoughts though. I'd be interested to hear more of your thoughts on Carpet in the deck though.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Don't get me wrong, I always mulligan for a turn 1 hand. It's just that carpet really gets you back in the game if your shit gets countered. My sideboard (minus wish-board) is 1 Forest, 4 Xantid Swarm, 4 Carpet of Flowers. I've won many games after my turn 1 hand fails to get there.
"Early game is shuffling, mid game is mulligans, late game is turn 1"
This is always true game 1 when you have no clue what you are up against and they don't know they need to mulligan to FOW to have a chance. But games 2 & 3 against those said blue decks you need to slow down a little bit sometimes you can steal a win with an opening hand Empty because they were banking on forcing your BW or belcher. I have completely moved away from the blasts and red counterspells on the sideboard. I have found that they are not very proactive and force you to try and generate more mana just to have the back up while they are also taking up a card in your hand. My non wish board right now is...3 Xantid Swarm 3 Carpet of Flowers 1 Forest. I find that this seems to be the right numbers for those blue decks because Carpet adds mana to help play around soft counters like daze and spell pierce. While Xantid swarm stops counters altogether. Because carpet adds mana at the beginning of a main phase you can attack then add mana and go off. It also punishes them for playing islands. It acts like a ritual and the longer the game goes the more mana it makes. It has won me a few games that I had no right to win.
I played in a small legacy tournament and ended
4-0.
Mud 2-1
Rug 2-1
Burn 2-0
Stoneblade 2-1
Notable play was against mud, he dropped a 1st turn chalice for one.
Petal SSG SSE chrome imprint rite of flame into belcher top decked a led the turn after for the win
were my 1st moves.
Im still using the no sb build belcher.
TJB
http://deartiyopaeng.blogspot.com/ <---- (updated) MTG related blog. ^_^
TES: 102nd out of 2000 players at GP Kyoto 2015 (Legacy)
UR Storm: 37th of 950 players at GP Guangzhou 2016 (Modern)
Do you have a decklist of your deck?
I want to play at my local legacy sunday.
Thx in advance
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote