Sweet! I played legacy today too but was on storm. There was a Belcher player in the room who went 4-1 :)Originally Posted by Rokkastut
Vs Omnitell Telemin would have won you the game :(
I'm not entirely sure about carpet vs Miracles. They don't play much daze or spell pierce but hard counters. A resolved counterbalance also destroys you so sitting on Carpet like you do vs Delver decks could be risky. I would probably just stick with 4 Xantid Swarm and cut Probes.
Fun time, nice work man! (:
I'm always scared to bring my Belcher to a tournament - I'm always thinking that there's always too much blue nowadays!
“There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle".
- Albert Einstein
Yea, right, Summoner's Pact to Wild Cantor into Day's Undoing seems totally synergistic, uh?
Edit: hahah, have you just deleted the post about Pact + DU?! Way to go!
Last edited by Maikhell; 09-22-2015 at 05:14 PM.
I'm thinking with Day's Undoing, this deck can more reliably kill on turn 1/2. EtW typically takes 3 turns to seal the game. Have any of you tried testing this? Here's a quick sketch of what I had in mind.
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Land Grant
1 Taiga
3 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Tinder Wall
4 Rite of Flame
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Pyretic Ritual
4 Seething Song
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Manamorphose
3 Day's Undoing
4 Goblin Charbelcher
4 Burning Wish
Sideboard
1 Day's Undoing
1 Empty the Warrens
Note: @Maikhell: Yeah, I had a brain fart and thought pact triggers were EoT. Whoops! Concept of chaining DU into Belcher stays intact though haha.
Last edited by nudon; 09-22-2015 at 08:20 PM.
How does this kill more reliably on turn 1? Days Undoing ends your turn. It also helps your opponent draw into Force of Will or any other form of disruption (even discard is turned on). One of Belcher's strengths is that it has very consistent draws while also forcing your opponent to mulligan into disruption. If you want to rely more on Belcher and less on EtW then I suggest you look at the Recross the Paths version which functions similarly to Doomsday.
I agree that EtW doesn't always win you the game due to faster combo decks (show and tell, sometimes elves, ANT, reanimator) or your opponent's two-of golgari charm happened to be in their opening hand. However, I'm pretty sure you'll end up having more losses due to Day's Undoing giving your opponent stuff he needs to combo or disrupt you than you would get with EtW not being good enough. I suggest to sticking with Infernal tutor in the SB to grab Belcher. Also, you're forced to play manamorphose -- which is horrible.
This may or may not be the deck for days undoing, but days undoing's best friend is chrome mox! max that thing out! Theoretically if your opponent holds up their counters in fear (magical christmasland), but lets you resolve three days undoings in a row you can accumulate a lot of permanent mana sources.
I played a vintage deck called Steel City Vault built around abusing draw-7s and the plan is pretty much get alot of permanents into play, draw 7, and now we both have 7 in hand but i have all these permanents (some of which are game-ending timevault/key)
Nah.
This blue spell is not what Belcher wants.
“There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle".
- Albert Einstein
For those of you who are playing Gitaxian Probe, do you feel that you're actually benefiting from the information you get from a Probe? I've been adamantly against Probe in decks like this; I think that your opening hand decision is the most important decision you make most games, and playing cards that obscure your opening hand from you seems like a mistake in that case. Furthermore, to me the "56-card deck" aspect is basically focusing on rebuilding before you've even tried to go off. In this way, I just assumed that Probe was kind of a bandwagon thing because I believed that the only reason to play it would be if the information you gained would be useful, and that the deck is too linear to often capitalize on the information. But then I played a few events with Probe in my deck. What I found was if my opponents knew that I knew what they were holding, they would basically take any bait I could set up and they'd just shoot all of their permission into the ground against me. More or less, Probe improved my win rate because it scared the shit out of weaker players. I don't know if I can really chalk this up to Probe actually being a good card, so I want to know what your experiences are.
@Probe;
I like it; but it is (Along with Seething Song and Pyretic Ritual) the card I sideboard out the most.
Played in a tournament on sunday and t4 (hattrick with Belcher), same decklist as always but Carpet of Flowers is for signing so 2 REB and 1 Guttural Response instead.
R1 - Show and Tell
G1 - I played Telemin Performance, stealing his Emrakul, lol.
G2 - He played S&T, In put Belcher in play, he drew 14 cards but not an answer.
2-0
R2 - Death and Taxes
Easy 2-0 (shitload of Goblins both games)
R3 - MUD
I hate Trinisphere. I lost the dieroll, t1 win is not a t1 win against Trinisphere.
1-2
R4 - Death and Taxes
Easy 2-0 (same as last match against D&T)
T4 - RUG
Daze, Spell Pierce, Force of Will, Stifle... I really missed Carpet of Flowers in the SB against soft counters. Difficult matchup as always, but 3 Carpets is needed, much better than REB.
Yea probe is quite weak. For sideboarding I usually do -4 Probe -4 Seething Song +4 Xantid Swarm +4 Carpet of Flowers. Carpet also helps those Wish--> Telemin Performance or Wish--> Infernal Tutor--> Belcher lines of play.
Edit:
Here's my post-DTT banning sb. I decided to include some blasts because Stifle is like Force of Will 5-8 if you're on the draw.
1 Telemin Performance
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Infernal Tutor
1 Reverent Silence
1 Shattering Spree
4 Xantid Swarm
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Pyroblast
1 Forest
Vs non-wasteland blue decks:
-4 Probe -4 Seething Song
+4 Xantid Swarm +3 Carpet of Flowers +1 Pyroblast
VS wasteland blue decks without stifle:
-4 Probe -4 Seething Song -1 Pyretic Ritual
+4 Xantid Swarm +3 Carpet of Flowers +1 Forest +1 Pyroblast
On the Draw VS wasteland blue decks with stifle:
-4 Probe -4 Seething Song -2 Pyretic Ritual
+4 Xantid Swarm +3 Carpet of Flowers +1 Forest +2 Pyroblast
Last edited by Blastoderm; 10-06-2015 at 10:40 AM.
I've been very happy with Probe. It lets me know what my opponent's outs are and play accordingly. It also gives me a clue if I should SB game 2. I wouldn't play it if it didn't also increment the storm count, though. I could definitely see cutting 1 for another ritual effect, though.
Have you ever been in a situation where you could either get 8 gobbos or go for the win? Knowing whether they have FoW or Fluster in their hand makes a difference. I also like that it makes our deck feel smaller at the cost of a few life since we're going to try and go off early in the vast majority of games.
“There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle".
- Albert Einstein
By "go for the win" you mean play a Belcher? It really depends on how your opponent reacts. Usually they force the ritual that would get you to 3/4 mana since FoW is bad vs empty. I imagine the same thing would apply to flusterstorm being bad vs Belcher. Therefore they would flusterthe same mana source.
Probe is the most cuttable spell after sb. Shrinking the deck by a card or two is irrelevant since you mulligan to a hand with either a wish, empty or Belcher. Keeping a hand with 5 mana sources and 2 probes is an auto-mulligan. Same case goes for manamorphose but it's far worse (pyretic ritual is strictly better). If you keep hands with 4 mana sources 2 manamorphose 1 gitaxian probe you should rethink how you play this deck -- and also remove manamorphose.
Just saw the top8 list from Danish Legacy Masters. Belcher with Taiga+Bayou, 4 Manamorphose, 4 Dark Ritual!? And 1 Infernal Tutor main... I like it.
Blastoderm,I ask Your List main deck?
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
4 Seething Song
4 LED
4 Lotus Petal
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox
4 Tinder Wall
4 Land Grant
1 Taiga
4 Goblin Charbelcher
4 Burning Wish
3 Empty the Warrens
Sideboarding is a couple posts up.
infect sneak attack against miracles and how you use the side?
carpet of flowers you use it even when you start?
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=98015
I need some help understanding this SB. I just can't wrap my head around how to or when to side.
On a different note, has anyone considered crash of tentacles? There has been some talk among the TES community as a better wish target rather than targeted removal. Initially it feels slow and open to large amounts of removal, but that's without testing.
The 3x carpet and (I imagine) 2x Dromoka + Temple Garden come in against blue decks, with the third as a Living Wish target. The Welder is a Living Wish target, and everything else is a BWish target.
Crush might work out in TES, etc. but Belcher is a 1st turn deck. We win before their permanents matter, or we lose. I don't see this card being better than Empty for 8+ goblins since the 8/8 token is so vulnerable.
I steadfastly beleive that playing Dragonlord Dromoka in the sideboard is significantly worse than playing Xantid Swarm. I see his logic for doing it; however, it is not prudent strategy and in my view, it effectively undermines the primary objctive of this deck, which is speed and consistent opening hands.
To be the man, you gotta beat the man!
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