[Primer/Deck] Zoo

[smutko]

Fast zoo seems much more appealing to me. Something with enough removal to keep a delver deck from ever getting ahead and enough mana efficiency to make cantripping seem like a waste of time, daze a joke, and never let them trade up on mana. Then just jam some hatebears for the combo matchups and more hateful bullets in the sideboard and call it a day.
I don't think I'd want to face maverick or endearing with this but it feels like the metagame is all underground seas and maybe some nettle sentinels at the moment.

What about something like:

20 lands
4 wooded foothills
4 arid mesa
2 windswept Heath
3 plateau
2 taiga
1 savannah
3 mountain
1 plains

24 dudes
4 wild nacatl
4 kird ape
3 goblin guide
2 loam lion
2 grim lavamancer
4 eidolon of the great revel
3 Thalia guardian of thraben
2 spirit of the lab

16 spells
4 lightning bolt
4 chain lightning
2 path to exile
2 searing blaze
2 price of progress
1 Atarkas command
1 fireblast

SB (unsure on numbers)
Surgical extraction
RIP
REB
mindbreak trap
Destructive revelry
Path to exile
Price of progress
Containment priest
Phyrexian revoker

[bigwerdz]

I played something similar to that at a 5 round weekly. My list was:

19 Lands:
3 Taiga
3 Plateau
2 Mountain
11 red fetch

22 creatures:
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Grim Lavamancer

19 Spells:
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Atarkas Command
2 Mutagenic Growth
2 Searing Blaze
2 Fireblast
1 Price of Progress

SB:
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Price of Progress
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Sylvan Library
2 Path to Exile

I went 4-1 losing to nicfit and beating lands twice, reanimator (RB), and Czech Pile. It was very fast. I came to the list by just porting over what I play in modern whenever I get suckered into playing modern. Replaced shocks with duals and bad spells with better ones. I didn't know how the SB should look so I grabbed 2 of's and things I didn't have room in the main for.

[Curby]

Nothing too useful to add besides being glad that fast Zoo is still being looked at. I do worry a bit that we're verging on Goyfless Goyf sligh, which never had mid-game endurance and was too reliant on an explosive start in the first few turns. Hopefully Eidolons and Lavamancers are enough to finish off an opponent. I've always loved 1-2 Fireblasts in Zoo for reach, but worry that Thalia Taxes us too dearly, especially in burn-heavy lists. Any thoughts on the dis-synergy there?

[tescrin]

I think swapping Nacatl and Mutagenic for Goyf and Ghor-Clan seems good. Maybe one Command for a second Price since it's a blowout against a lot of decks. Goyf is a bigger deal here than normal due to you having Enchants ripe for the grave via Eidolon. Goyf will regularly thusly be bigger than Anglers. Further, Ghor-clan gives trample, making it a brutal finisher as you swing for 9 trample into their TNN.

[Curby]

Wow, why are you so interested in dropping Nacatl? It'd be among the last 1-drops for me to get rid of.

[bigwerdz]

Like I said I haven't tested in legacy much but my modern experience says goyfs is too slow. You want more bodies in play. I agree that in legacy there might should be some number of ghor-clans. Damage based removal is more prevalent in modern then legacy so the mutagenic growths can probably go.

[Curby]

Over on the Miracles thread they're still gleefully casting Termini and winning MTGO events 5-0 with it, and that's the card that previously put Zoo entirely out of commission, especially fast variants. Like I said I want to play fast Zoo when I play Zoo, but all-in deck designs have their problems too. I'm really wondering if Goyf is too slow, or if there's room in the deck for a 2-drop beater.

EDIT: Perhaps countertop was the real problem, not Terminus?

[hymnyou]

Over on the Miracles thread they're still gleefully casting Termini and winning MTGO events 5-0 with it, and that's the card that previously put Zoo entirely out of commission, especially fast variants. Like I said I want to play fast Zoo when I play Zoo, but all-in deck designs have their problems too. I'm really wondering if Goyf is too slow, or if there's room in the deck for a 2-drop beater.

EDIT: Perhaps countertop was the real problem, not Terminus?

You can play around terminus, countertop was what locked the whole thing down with terminus. I think right now they are feasting on players dumping their hands not expecting terminus due to the ban. The matchup overall is much better, just dont over extend and have something that deals with tokens/wincon (ratchet bomb maybe) for mentor or entreat. Outside of that is Jace, red blast in SB seems good now. This doesn't mean the deck is good but I'll run some variant again soon at the locals.

[smutko]

I played a few leagues with my proposed list above to fairly mediocre results. I basically felt like a worse delver deck, where instead of being rewarded for more "stuff" and less "fluff" I was just punished for my inability to keep 1-landers or brainstorm away excess lands later in the game. In general it felt like the theorycrafting was correct in that the 2/3s for 1 lined up well against the general delver plan but just playing off the top with no ability to do anything about drawing the wrong half of the deck felt bad. Going forward I'd probably cut the goblin guides, and maybe sprints of the lab. I did not find Thalia's effect too onerous on my game plan. I agree that goyf would be great in the right matchups but I also wanted my 2-drops to effect more than the battlefield and I enjoyed boarding in Rest In Peace against the drs-goyf decks... up to personal preference I think. My minimal experience against the new miracles lists wasn't getting crushed by a timely terminus so much as getting ground out in a long game where they were ripping through their deck with cantrips to have answers for everything while I just drew my 1 card for turn and crossed my fingers.

[bigwerdz]

I went 4-1 with the zoo list I posted a few weeks ago this past Thursday. I lost to pox and beat ub reanimator X2, affinity, and the bant leovold deck. A fast clock and having atarkas command to skullcrack when Gristlebrand attacks worked well.

[Kanti]

4 Wild Nacatl
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierach
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Gurmang Angler
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger

4 Punishing Fire
4 Swords to Plow
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Painful Truths
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Lilianna of the Veil
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant

lands: not even gonna pretend like i know how to make a mana-base.

What do you guys think of this base? Can replace the PFire with Bolts of course, but I wanted some extra "free" CA. x3 Painful Truths in there to cycle through your deck, Knight gets Grove+utility lands, singleton Scryb Ranger over the 4th Goyf to pull DRS+KotR tricks and block Delver all day, and mama Elspeth as I can't think of another 4cc spell to slot in here. Basically got the deck from the first Modern PT finals and replaced some cards.

edit: my brain is telling me Lilliana is better than Elspeth. Also, no x2 Jitte anywhere has to be a mistake, right? Updated with an SB I thought could be decent.

sb:
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Engineered Plague
2 Choke
2 Thoughtseize
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
1 REB
1 Pyroblast

[maharis]

I feel like playing something wacky/stupid tonight. Should it be landfall depths zoo?

Land (23)
2x Dark Depths
1x Dryad Arbor
2x Forest
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Plateau
3x Savannah
2x Taiga
2x Thespian's Stage
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills

Creature (21)
3x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Plated Geopede
2x Qasali Pridemage
2x Renegade Rallier
4x Steppe Lynx
4x Tarmogoyf

Instant (10)
3x Berserk
3x Crop Rotation
4x Lightning Bolt

Sorcery (2)
2x Green Sun's Zenith

Enchantment (2)
2x Sylvan Library

Planeswalker (2)
2x Domri Rade

[tescrin]

Berserks should just be Ghor Clans unfortunately. For 1-more mana, it produces a reliable result on any dude and doesn't kill your dude, which could be relevant. Making a noble attack for 5 is better than the occasional doubling of exalted triggers IMO.

[maharis]

Berserks should just be Ghor Clans unfortunately. For 1-more mana, it produces a reliable result on any dude and doesn't kill your dude, which could be relevant. Making a noble attack for 5 is better than the occasional doubling of exalted triggers IMO.

T1 Lynx, T2 fetch, croprotation for fetch, berserk is 16 trample damage. It's a glass cannon but it's a fun glass cannon. If you have a bolt and they used a fetchland it's game over.

I built an Oath of Nissa-focused zoo deck last night with max Ghor-Clan, since it can be found with Oath, that I may also play. I'm not against the card, but I'm in it to berserk some 8/9 cats tonight.

[Curby]

Give it a shot, but you're depending on a lot of 3-of cards to make that happen on turn-2. I'd run full playsets if you want to be a combo deck. Also check out Temur Battle Rage, and Groundswell over Bolt. If you're gonna go landfall, go landfall. If you're gonna go glass cannon, go glass cannon. All those Libraries and Planeswalkers make me think you care about turn 4 and beyond more than you claim you do.

[Winter9]

I first got into Legacy when someone leant me Zoo. I decided I had to build it, but with the Taigas and Plateau and Goyfs it took years and I built The Gate in the meanwhile which I upgraded to Pikula/Abzan midrange. I still play Abzan Midrange and I also have Zoo fully built now. Even though not the best decks in the format both are a blast to play. Sharing my Zoo list which I'm still working on to this day. I haven't actually tested the Ghor Clan yet, but it seems crazy good for breaking the goyf stalls and for catching them buy aurprise.

I cut one Thalia to make room for a second Ghor Clan. Three seems like the correct number. Do you guys agree? I drew quite some second bad Thalia's in a tournament in the weekend.


Also worth mentioning although many think Kird Ape is too slow it's a card I'm not willing to cut. I got them that weekend I first played Legacy and I love them a lot.

My list:

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
4 Goblin Guide
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Knight of the Reliquary

2 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Path to Exile

3 Plateau (Should probably try to get another Taiga and switch wth a plateau or savannah. Got them because they were cheap)
2 Taiga
1 Savannah
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
3 Arid Mesa
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains

Sideboard as of today:

2 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Pyroblast
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Celestial Flare
1 Pyroclasm
1 Karakas
1 Maze of ith

Had an hilarious time casting Celestial Flare last weekend. He attacked with his Mirran Crusader with Jitte attached. I play it, he looks at it and laughs and says "didn't play around that one". It's more there for the True Name and for Sneak and Show, but it was fun and very good to catch the crusader.
Even more funny was he actually did play around it the next time he attacked and attacked with a stoneforge mystic too

[Curby]

You're skirting the edge between small Zoo (Apes and Guides) and big Zoo (Knights). FWIW the most successful decks these days are big zoo, but I understand the desire to go old school with Apes. I've got a small Zoo list sleeved but I don't really play it in events.

Anyway, I think Guides and Thalias might be a good choice for cuts if you need room: I'm trying Eidolon of the Great Revel instead of Thalia for disrupting opposing spells.

I also love Sylvan Library in any Zoo deck. You generally drop it turn 4 or so to ensure mid-game card selection and card advantage if your life allows it.

You might also consider running a GSZ package. This allows you to get rid of Ooze #2 which isn't a wonderful way to fill a second slot, and you can add a Dryad Arbor for first turn acceleration if desired. GSZ is also a shuffle effect for Library.

Many decks also run a Punishing Fire package, which you can consider instead of the Chain Lightnings since you only need minimal land investment given you're running Knights.

Just some ideas.

EDIT: Sejiri Steppe makes more sense in a big Zoo deck where you have fewer, but more important, creatures. Overall Karakas might be a better choice in the main. Bojuka Bog is also a common choice for land toolboxes, and might be worth a sideboard slot.

[Mr. Safety]

I always wanted to see what Domri Rade could do in Legacy zoo. Its in the mana efficiency range (3 mana) and it can be a great source of card advantage, especially in a fair metagame where the fight activation does a lot of work (Goyf/Knight killing lots of stuff.)

[Megadeus]

Last time I played Zoo he was very good for me. Got to ultimate him against a Humility deck and go nuts with a Ghor Clan

[Winter9]

You're skirting the edge between small Zoo (Apes and Guides) and big Zoo (Knights). FWIW the most successful decks these days are big zoo, but I understand the desire to go old school with Apes. I've got a small Zoo list sleeved but I don't really play it in events.

Anyway, I think Guides and Thalias might be a good choice for cuts if you need room: I'm trying Eidolon of the Great Revel instead of Thalia for disrupting opposing spells.

I also love Sylvan Library in any Zoo deck. You generally drop it turn 4 or so to ensure mid-game card selection and card advantage if your life allows it.

You might also consider running a GSZ package. This allows you to get rid of Ooze #2 which isn't a wonderful way to fill a second slot, and you can add a Dryad Arbor for first turn acceleration if desired. GSZ is also a shuffle effect for Library.

Many decks also run a Punishing Fire package, which you can consider instead of the Chain Lightnings since you only need minimal land investment given you're running Knights.

Just some ideas.

EDIT: Sejiri Steppe makes more sense in a big Zoo deck where you have fewer, but more important, creatures. Overall Karakas might be a better choice in the main. Bojuka Bog is also a common choice for land toolboxes, and might be worth a sideboard slot.

Thanks for the suggestions :) I do think I'm close to the list I want to run. Pikula is my main deck in Legacy so in Zoo I'' not only interested in playing just the best build if it means cutting pet cards. I will consider the punishing fire though. Bojuka Bog is not run simply because we have little dredge. During five/six years of legacy I've met it once.

I do think going big zoo is stronger, but it's not what I enjoy so that's why it's this slightly weird mix;)

I really like thalia though. I have played Revel online, but he creates some akward land positions.

:)