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Thread: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

  1. #21

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Quote Originally Posted by ceustice View Post
    So I read this comment the other day on Salvation, and I don't Know if its just that simple. Emissary can add to some very explosive turn 2s, but I'm not sure if that fixes the plethora of problems this deck faces right now.

    T1 Wild Nactl
    T2 Emissary ->Goblin Guide/Wild Nactl (Swing for 5)
    T3 {(Swing for 10) 15 Damage total} Putting them in Finish them off burn range on T3.
    Is one heck of a wall to face down.

    Edit. I may have convinced myself while writing this that BTE is playable.
    A friend of mine tried out BTE on list where he also played Experiment One. The list played

    4 Nacatl
    4 Vexing Devil
    4 Experiment One
    4 Kird Ape
    4 BTE
    4 Tarmo

    17 other spell
    19 lands


    on this list Devil is more than 4 dmg to opp cause it also ups Experiment One. That's why he played Apes cause

    T1: EO
    T2: BTE -> Ape & Devil -> swing 4 with EO
    T3: you have 12 power on the table.

    but I think Guide could be better cause with Guide you could swing 5 on T2 and still have 11 power on T3.

  2. #22
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    For an aggro deck, kill speed is determined by two bottlenecks, mana and cards. If you started with your whole deck in your hand, obviiusly the way to go would be 4 Petal, 4 SSG, 8 bolts. But on the play, a turn 3 kill has to be done with 9 cards. That's an average of just over 2 per card. Adjusting for 2 lands, you need just under 3 per card. 3 lands you need just over 3 per card. BTE is merely 2 on turn 3. While it alleviates mana bottlenecking to an extent, you'd need a very magical Christmasland indeed for it to be better than any other card in the deck. Goblin Guide is tiny but he is acceptable because he represents 6 on turn 3. That's Nacatl/Herd territory, justifying such a fragile and otherwise bad creature.
    Quote Originally Posted by Draener View Post
    You know who thinks it's sweet to play against 8 different decks in an 8 round tournament? People who don't like to win, or people that play combo. This is not EDH; Legacy is a competitive environment, and it should reward skill - more so than it does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Borealis View Post
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  3. #23
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    So I'm debating a little on board slots for Milwaukee. Currently, the decklist is:

    4 Wild Nacatl
    4 Hidden Herd
    4 Goblin Guide
    4 Tarmogoyf
    3 Vexing Devil
    3 Qasali Pridemage

    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    3 Boros Charm
    2 Reckless Charge
    2 Forked Bolt
    2 Fireblast

    4 Windswept Heath
    4 Wooded Foothills
    4 Arid Mesa
    4 Taiga
    3 Plateau
    1 Savannah

    SB

    3 Rest in Peace
    2 Silence
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Stony Silence
    2 Sulfuric Vortex
    2 Oblivion Ring
    1 Krosan Grip
    1 Umezawa's Jitte

    I'm debating a few things. I almost feel like I want a second Jitte for tribal decks. Goblins and Elves, mostly. wouldn't hurt against Maverick either, though. I don't actually have that much creature burn. 10 removal spells, 4 Bolt, 4 Chain, 2 Forked Bolt. That's light compared to traditional Zoo with PtE and Helix. Not sure where I'd fit it, however. I could cut Grip, I suppose, but I want a way to deal with the RiP/Energy Field out of Miracles and 3 Pridemage is being a little greedy. Stony obviously helps shut down SDT and Helm, but Energy Field can come down fast and I need some way to interact with it. Vortex is pretty necessary vs. Stoneblade; I don't want them using their Jitte or Batterskull to gain a ton of life. If I negate the lifegain, I can just burn them out. Stony is good vs. Miracles and Storm, shutting off Artifact mana (much like CotV, except with broader applications, Affinity, MUD, etc.). REB I suppose could go, as it's really not that great right now. It's not a broad hoser and it doesn't deal with any massive problems. It is nice to have vs. combo though as it's very flexible and useful against most everything.

    The other thought was possibly replacing an Oblivion Ring to make room for the 3rd Reckless Charge in the side. Charge is only good vs. combo, but it's so important there - as important as Fireblast and maybe more so, since SnT runs Misdirection and Charge is a Bolt+ that can't be MisD'd. Silence is also pretty amazing vs. combo and I wouldn't mind having a 3rd one. How good is Oblivion Ring vs. SnT now that they have Griselbrand anyway? Maybe I can just cut the 2 REBs and run +1 Reckless Charge and +1 Umezawa's Jitte. It shouldn't make any difference in my decision process but I kind of don't want to cut my pretty Beta REB. $1500 fashion show, I know, but man, it's asexy REB.
    Quote Originally Posted by Draener View Post
    You know who thinks it's sweet to play against 8 different decks in an 8 round tournament? People who don't like to win, or people that play combo. This is not EDH; Legacy is a competitive environment, and it should reward skill - more so than it does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Borealis View Post
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  4. #24
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Ooh that is a very aggressive strategy, I like that. The weakest is probably forked bolt, but I assume it's in there because it can 2 for 1 which means it's actually fine as long as you 2 for 1 suckers all day, I also like the reckless charge, I did that off and on as it was a haste, +3, & had the flashback that allowed it to push even further.

    Also, so many 1 drops with 3 power seems totally awesome, what would be left Delver of Secrets and that's it? Although that's blue. That'd be awesome if you got turn 3/4 kills all day, pushing the fastest zoo archetype of zoo itself yet!

    If you wanted to squeeze in more spells, you could go down to 4/4/4 fetchland, 1/1/1 basic & 1/1/1 dual, but that would be really pushing it. At the same time however, when THAT MUCH of your deck costs 1, and almost nothing costs 3 (Except for the flashback cost of 2 spells, being reckless charge) I always want to get away with squeezing in another spell if I can convince myself, though I'm also sorta crazy.
    Primary legacy deck High Tide primer

  5. #25

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Electrickery is pretty boss versus Elves, Goblins, Tokens and even fringe stuff like Death and Taxes. You can also just Zap bob if you have to.

  6. #26
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Originally, the Forked Bolts were Flame Rifts. However, in order to push extra damage through, it was important to be able to have an answer to Lingering Souls and I wanted more targeted removal against irritants like Stoneforge Mystic and Deathrite Shaman - the deck doesn't run PtE or Helix, so I was sitting on 8 spells that could actually go to creatures. 10 is a little more comfortable. Ounce of prevention/pound of cure, etc.

    Reckless Charge really shines in the combo matchups where they don't have any removal. I don't like it nearly as much in any other matchup, but the fact that it's a better bolt that can't be Misdirected against SnT means that I'm that much more likely to be able to race their turn 2 or turn 3 Griselbrand, at least if I'm on the play. On the draw, it's likely not happening without board cards.

    @Feline: I was actually running a blue version with Delver last year. You gain a lot, having 12 3-power 1-drops. However, while still incredibly fast, it was a little slower than this version. Brainstorm and Ponder are great for smoothing draws and flipping Delvers, but you lose the raw speed of Goblin Guide and Vexing Devil.

    For reference, that list was:

    4 Wild Nacatl
    4 Hidden Herd
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Tarmogoyf
    2 Qasali Pridemage
    1 Scavenging Ooze

    4 Brainstorm
    2 Ponder
    1 Sylvan Library

    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    3 Lightning Helix
    2 Fire/Ice

    4 Wooded Foothills
    2 Arid Mesa
    2 Scalding Tarn
    2 Windswept Heath
    3 Taiga
    2 Plateau
    2 Tropical Island
    2 Savannah
    1 Tundra
    1 Volcanic Island


    Sideboard

    3 Spell Pierce
    3 Rest in Peace
    3 Krosan Grip
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Stony Silence
    2 Sulfuric Vortex

    I had a little discussion about the deck in the old Zoo thread (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post701338).

    I think you could make that version more aggressive; swapping the 2nd Trop for a 2nd Volc, adding Guide or Devil in place of a Helix and the Pridemages and the Scavenging Ooze and replacing the other 2 Helixes with Fireblast. Something along those lines, anyway. It leaves you with very little in the way of reactive ability, but you still get counters out of board and honestly, just by running blue, you're going to put people in a position where they assume you have answers, so they're not going to go for risky plays unless they're in a position where they have no other choice. Honestly, if you wanted, you could probably just cut the Tarmogoyfs for Goblin Guides and go all in on the 1-drop plan, keeping your burn and the Pridemages and Ooze. You're really unhappy about Countertop at that point, but outside of Miracles and RUG board, you never see Counterbalance anyway and Chalice for 1 is your ass, but Tezz Control and MUD are pretty rare sights at major Legacy tournaments.

    In any case, while I think there's still room to explore with the blue Zoo, Brainstorm and Ponder are always going to make your mana bottleneck worse. They add stability and consistency, but they cost you speed. You're just not as likely to hit that turn 3 kill if you're casting Brainstorm on turn 2. I'm not saying that Naya is necessarily better, per se, but for the SCG in Milwaukee, where I expect combo to be effing everywhere, speed is the key to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Draener View Post
    You know who thinks it's sweet to play against 8 different decks in an 8 round tournament? People who don't like to win, or people that play combo. This is not EDH; Legacy is a competitive environment, and it should reward skill - more so than it does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Borealis View Post
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  7. #27
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Quote Originally Posted by SpikeyMikey View Post
    The other thought was possibly replacing an Oblivion Ring to make room for the 3rd Reckless Charge in the side. Charge is only good vs. combo, but it's so important there - as important as Fireblast and maybe more so, since SnT runs Misdirection and Charge is a Bolt+ that can't be MisD'd. Silence is also pretty amazing vs. combo and I wouldn't mind having a 3rd one. How good is Oblivion Ring vs. SnT now that they have Griselbrand anyway? Maybe I can just cut the 2 REBs and run +1 Reckless Charge and +1 Umezawa's Jitte. It shouldn't make any difference in my decision process but I kind of don't want to cut my pretty Beta REB. $1500 fashion show, I know, but man, it's asexy REB.
    If I was running this deck and was concerned about SNT, I'd go with Silence, and I would use it aggressively. I like it better than REB. Silence also is better than REB in the other combo matchups you're likely to face. Other options would be to max out on O. Ring and hope they race with Show and Tell rather than Sneak Attack, or you could not SB for the matchup and just hope to ride to victory on your speed and consistency. How have you been preboard? If I'm an SNT player and I crush a Zoo player Game 1, I'm probably going to assume Game 2 will go similarly. I don't think SNT decks have anything to board in for the matchup unless they have Blood Moon. I also like Jitte a lot for most other matchups and would run one or maybe two.

  8. #28
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Quote Originally Posted by ESG View Post
    If I was running this deck and was concerned about SNT, I'd go with Silence, and I would use it aggressively. I like it better than REB. Silence also is better than REB in the other combo matchups you're likely to face. Other options would be to max out on O. Ring and hope they race with Show and Tell rather than Sneak Attack, or you could not SB for the matchup and just hope to ride to victory on your speed and consistency. How have you been preboard? If I'm an SNT player and I crush a Zoo player Game 1, I'm probably going to assume Game 2 will go similarly. I don't think SNT decks have anything to board in for the matchup unless they have Blood Moon. I also like Jitte a lot for most other matchups and would run one or maybe two.
    I agree with the Silence vs. REB. Silence is Time Walk, REB is Counterspell. Both are good, but taking an extra turn is definitely better.

    The matchup vs. SnT is almost entirely reliant on what the SnT player draws. I've got a reasonably consistent turn 3 goldfish, but that would be assuming they don't have Force/Misdirection for a burn spell. That's part of the reason I like Reckless Charge in that matchup so much, it gives you so much extra damage and they can't Misdirect it to remove one of your beaters. So if they have the turn 1 nut draw, I'm boned. Turn 2, if I'm on the play, on the right kind of hand, I can squeak by either Emrakul or Griselbrand. Turn 3 on the play I'm probably fine; if I haven't already killed them, I should be able to untap and burn them out. Obviously, being on the draw is pretty devastating as you're a turn slower every time. Then I need a nut draw AND for them to have a slowish hand.

    In either case, I definitely want to board against them. I mean, this is about as fast as Zoo can get, but it's still not "I'm going to combo your face" fast. When I tested, I never had more than 3 turns before my opponent comboed out, so anything that disrupts them, even for a turn, is good. That is the one upside to O Ring and REB; they can represent more than a turn's worth of disruption, whereas Silence is always a turn, but only a turn. But I think you're right. Consistency is the watchword. 3rd Silence it is. Maybe cut the Krosan Grip for Jitte #2? I'll still have 5 answers to Energy Field and Counterbalance postboard. It's not as good as 6, but it's workable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Draener View Post
    You know who thinks it's sweet to play against 8 different decks in an 8 round tournament? People who don't like to win, or people that play combo. This is not EDH; Legacy is a competitive environment, and it should reward skill - more so than it does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Borealis View Post
    Plow their Mom every chance you get!

  9. #29
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Cool. Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

  10. #30

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    I've been playing Burning-Tree emmisary in zoo in preparation for a tournament and I have tweaked the list to this so far:

    Burning-Tree emissary 4
    Goblin guide 4
    Kird ape 4
    Wild nacatl 4
    Tarmagoyf 4
    Thalia, guardian of thraben 3
    Grim lavamancer 2
    Scavenging ooze 2


    Lightning bolt 4
    Chain lightning 4
    Path to exile 4
    Sylvan library 2

    Wooded foothills 4
    Windswept Heath 4
    Arid Mesa 4
    Plateau 2
    Savahanna 1
    Taiga 2
    Mountain 1
    Forest 1


    Side board:

    Oblivian ring 3
    Mindbreak trap 3
    Quasli pridemage 3
    Grim lavamancer 2
    Gaddock teeg 3
    Umezawa's jitte 1



    So far I've done pretty well in play tests against a variety of decks. Debating on running Krosen grip to beat counterbalance and maybe more ooze to disrupt combo. Only 7 cards main deck that have white mana costs helps burning-tree go off more frequently. In the event of burning-tree + thilia in hand turn 2,playing Thalia first is a choice that would depend on the deck of the opponent. I think burning tree is more effective than loam lion when you can run many red or green cards that are nearly identical. I'd appreciate some feedback.
    Last edited by Strassbaw; 04-15-2013 at 08:04 PM.

  11. #31
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Quote Originally Posted by ESG View Post
    Cool. Good luck. Let us know how it goes.
    Poorly. :P

    20 minutes before the tournament, I panicked, decided that I wasn't comfortable not running counterspells, added blue to the deck and wrote out a new deck reg sheet during the announcements. Since I had about 6 minutes to build before announcements (and sleeve up), I just started throwing things together. The result, as you can imagine, was that the deck was wrong. I ended up going 5-4. I should've just played the straight Naya Zoo list that I've had more or less nailed down for 3 weeks, outside of minor board tweaks.

    Standard went much better. My record was only 6-4, but all 4 of my losses in Standard were 1-2 and of my 5 real wins (round 9 opponent never showed up), 4 were 2-0's. So the deck was absolutely correct and I think actually pretty well built - which is impressive given how few fucks I give about Standard - I just simply didn't pilot it well enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by Draener View Post
    You know who thinks it's sweet to play against 8 different decks in an 8 round tournament? People who don't like to win, or people that play combo. This is not EDH; Legacy is a competitive environment, and it should reward skill - more so than it does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Borealis View Post
    Plow their Mom every chance you get!

  12. #32
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    I've been tinkering with some 'free stuff' strategy with blue-splashed zoo:

    Bloodbraid elf
    Shardless agent
    Burning-tree emissary
    Violent outburst

    These being the fuel to do some tricky plays with boom/bust. Just a goofy idea, but potentially explosive with a free Armageddon off a cascade spell.
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  13. #33

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Last weekend I was at GP Strassbourg in France and went 5-4 after nine rounds, with 0 byes but starting out with 4-1 (incl wins against Sneak Show and TES).

    This was my list:

    20 Land:
    1 Plains
    1 Mountain
    1 Forest
    2 Savannah
    2 Plateau
    2 Taiga
    3 Arid Mesa
    4 Windswept Heath
    4 Wooded Foothills

    29 Creatures:
    2 Granger Guildmage
    4 Kird Ape
    4 Wild Nacatl
    3 Grim Lavamancer
    2 Scavenging Ooze
    3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Qasali Pridemage
    3 Loxodon Smiter

    11 Spells:
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Path to Exile

    Sideboard: (15)
    1 Pyroblast
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Fearie Macabre
    2 Tormod’s Crypt
    2 Pithing Needle
    3 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Path to Exile
    2 Krosan Grip

    Choices:
    Thalia: she's just an all-star against many decks in the field, RUG, BUG, Esper lists and all combo decks. She stole me a game 1 on the play against TES after which I sealed game 2 by countering his only ponder while applying pressure with 1 Nacatl and several burn spells.
    Granger Guildmage: he's just awesome against Goblins, Elves, Dark Confidant, Snapcaster Mage, Lingering Souls, Delver of Secrets. I play it because I don't want to use 2-mana costing non-creatures due to Thalia.
    Loxodon Smiter: the best card I played this weekend. Hymn to Tourach was going to be an extremely popular card with all the BUG, Jund and Junk lists. I even played against an Esper deck without Force of Will but with Hymn to Tourach. Where Knight of the Reliquary would have been countered, this guy sticks. Where Knight of the Reliquary would have been discarded by a Hymn to Tourach, this guy won me games by getting a 4/4 non- lightning boltable creature in play. Plus not needing to play around Daze is pretty good.

    Sideboard:
    4 hatebears extra against combo, after sideboard, is pretty good. So far it has proven to win games and sometimes even matches. I dislike Mindbreak Trap due to Duress being played a lot by the storm decks.

    the one thing I did wrong this weekend was the boarding against Jund. I obviously should have boarded graveyard hate (the 2 Tormod's Crypts) against the 2 Jund matchups I lost. For some odd reason I didn't and lost to punishing fire.
    Last edited by Kuyira; 04-16-2013 at 10:06 AM.

  14. #34

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    That's one sweet list! While I just posted a list with a more sligh zoo, I always found more success with a slower, more consistent list with THALIA. As you pointed out yourself, she can single handedly win so much matches, though maybe, personally whenever I run Thalia, I prefer StP instead of PtExile, due to the sinergy with Thalia, like, if you plan to fuck up his mana, you dont give them lands. But I think thats my personal choice. (StP AND wastelands)

    Love your choice of loxodon over reliquary, seems like one wise choice - no fear of graveyard wipeout, and he's just too great VS discard/control matches.

    Also, maybe I think you should try running at least 1-2 Surgical Extractions, specially in matches that you lost, once you do it on a Punishing Fire, most of your problems are gone. Sometimes a grave swipe isn't just enough - and with Jund on the fray it's just even more effective now - though gotta say Faerie is great for being virtually uncounterable.

    Other than that, excellent results, congratulations!

  15. #35

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Thanks! I am very happy with the list as it is. Although your idea for surgical extraction is great (and I concidered it), I felt the Tormod's Crypt was better in the Jund matchups because it hurts their Deathrite Shaman too and I am playing Grim Lavamancer anyway to clear my own graveyard. Plus against Reanimator, a surgical extraction can still be Thoughtseize'd before they go off. The Tormod's crypt can wait in play.

    The Fearie Macabre actually won me a game against Reanimator where I got my Scavenging Ooze Daze'd on the play (game 2) and then he played exhume turn 2, where I removed his blazing Archon. When the Ooze came in to play he had to pass the turn and found no out. The fact that it is uncounterable is really sweet. The reanimator player didn't expect me to use it because it is fairly bad against Dredge. On the other hand, a removed dredger in the upkeep, may stall long enough for me to win the game.

  16. #36

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    In Kuyira's post, the card mindbreak trap was mentioned. I've been considering my options for combo decks in board and I'm wondering if running Leyline of Sanctity in Zoo is a better option than mindbreak trap against storm and Charbelcher. The list i posted above runs 3 thalia main deck and 3 gaddock teeg board and I'm concerned my board is over kill for those archetypes (With further inclusion of mindbreak trap and/or leyline of sancitity). Also, has anyone tested Gaddock teeg vs miracle/counterbalance decks? it seems like a smart option.

    Ps. Burning-Tree Emissary in zoo play tests are continuing to go well.

  17. #37

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Up front: with combo decks I mean any deck that uses more than a 2- or 3-card combo to go off. Sneak Show & Reanimator for example are not concidered combo decks in my explanation for cardchoices below.

    Personally I find Mindbreak trap weak against any combo deck except Belcher, due to the silence & discard effects TES and ANT decks use. Plus against Elves I can't use the Mindbreak Trap either. The Ethersworn Canonists are more versatile, but slower and obviously not that great against Belcher, but still acceptable.
    Leyline seems fine except against Elves and lists with Empty the Warrens. It's also nice against Abrupt Decay since that can't kill it, but usually ANT or TES have Chain of Vapor or Echoing Truth to deal with it or TES/Charbelcher go off with Empty the Warrens. The deal with Leyline of Sanctity is you have to mulligan for it since it's a poor topdeck, obviously you have to mulligan for Ethersworn Canonist as well, but I prefer it's utility accross the field.

    In the end Zoo wins from combo decks by sticking to it's own plan: putting a threat down T1 and T2, with in my opinion the threat in T2 preferably being a hatebear that stalls long enough for you to seal the game. Leyline doesn't aid in the beatdown plan Zoo has in the first place. Countering the odd brainstorm or ponder can be amazingly good as well, since they sometimes keep a hand due to having such a spell combined with a fetchland.

    Gaddock Teeg against Miracles is cute, but they play Swords to Plowshares/Snapcaster Mage. The most horrible part is Counterbalance & Sensei's Divining Top combined with Brainstorm, not the Terminus. The Terminus only becomes horrible if they can time it, due to the Sensei's Divining Top. I think Pithing Needle on Sensei's Divining Top ruins their game a lot better (both equally good on the play and on the draw since you can cast it before they cast Counterbalance, assuming you have it in your starting hand).

    I can't say much about Burning Tree Emissary because I haven't haven't played it in standard nor in legacy. Depending on the list it might be good. On the other hand, playing Loam Lion in the Burning Tree Emissary slot will give plays like: T1: 1 Ape, Nacatl or Loam Lion, T2: 2 of them. But T1: Ape or Nacatl, T2: Burning Tree Emissary + Tarmogoyf or Sylvan Library is cute. T1: Ape or Nacatl, T2: Burning Tree Emissary + Nacatl and Kird Ape seems fine. In the end the Burning Tree Emissary is just a 2/2. Even the Pridemage or Scavenging Ooze are way better than that. Thalia isn't possible to play with Burning Tree Emissary on turn 2. Is the acceleration worth the card and getting just an extra 2/2 out of it? I'm not sure.
    Last edited by Kuyira; 04-17-2013 at 08:22 AM.

  18. #38

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuyira View Post
    Up front: with combo decks I mean any deck that uses more than a 2- or 3-card combo to go off. Sneak Show & Reanimator for example are not concidered combo decks in my explanation for cardchoices below.

    Personally I find Mindbreak trap weak against any combo deck except Belcher, due to the silence & discard effects TES and ANT decks use. Plus against Elves I can't use the Mindbreak Trap either. The Ethersworn Canonists are more versatile, but slower and obviously not that great against Belcher, but still acceptable.
    Leyline seems fine except against Elves and lists with Empty the Warrens. It's also nice against Abrupt Decay since that can't kill it, but usually ANT or TES have Chain of Vapor or Echoing Truth to deal with it or TES/Charbelcher go off with Empty the Warrens. The deal with Leyline of Sanctity is you have to mulligan for it since it's a poor topdeck, obviously you have to mulligan for Ethersworn Canonist as well, but I prefer it's utility accross the field.

    In the end Zoo wins from combo decks by sticking to it's own plan: putting a threat down T1 and T2, with in my opinion the threat in T2 preferably being a hatebear that stalls long enough for you to seal the game. Leyline doesn't aid in the beatdown plan Zoo has in the first place. Countering the odd brainstorm or ponder can be amazingly good as well, since they sometimes keep a hand due to having such a spell combined with a fetchland.

    Gaddock Teeg against Miracles is cute, but they play Swords to Plowshares/Snapcaster Mage. The most horrible part is Counterbalance & Sensei's Divining Top combined with Brainstorm, not the Terminus. The Terminus only becomes horrible if they can time it, due to the Sensei's Divining Top. I think Pithing Needle on Sensei's Divining Top ruins their game a lot better (both equally good on the play and on the draw since you can cast it before they cast Counterbalance, assuming you have it in your starting hand).

    I can't say much about Burning Tree Emissary because I haven't haven't played it in standard nor in legacy. Depending on the list it might be good. On the other hand, playing Loam Lion in the Burning Tree Emissary slot will give plays like: T1: 1 Ape, Nacatl or Loam Lion, T2: 2 of them. But T1: Ape or Nacatl, T2: Burning Tree Emissary + Tarmogoyf or Sylvan Library is cute. T1: Ape or Nacatl, T2: Burning Tree Emissary + Nacatl and Kird Ape seems fine. In the end the Burning Tree Emissary is just a 2/2. Even the Pridemage or Scavenging Ooze are way better than that. Thalia isn't possible to play with Burning Tree Emissary on turn 2. Is the acceleration worth the card and getting just an extra 2/2 out of it? I'm not sure.
    You can't think BTE as a 2cc 2/2. You have to think it like a Frogmite -> 2 power for free.

  19. #39

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    I think each response to storm has its nadvantages and disadvantages. ANT and belcher can combo turn 1. Which will means before you land a hatebear. In other hand, a hatebear is ahrder t odeal with rather than Mindbreak which can be silenced. Mindbreak can stop a turn one kill though, but it's discardable, silenceable and so on.

  20. #40
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Quote Originally Posted by angel882 View Post
    You can't think BTE as a 2cc 2/2. You have to think it like a Frogmite -> 2 power for free.
    Except I don't want Frogmite in Zoo. I don't have an equivalent to Ravager or Cranial Plating that makes running bad creatures worthwhile due to synergies.

    On the note of bad creatures, I'm considering Goldmeadow Harrier as a 1 or 2 of. I feel like I'd get better utility out of it than I would other common options like Lavamancer or Granger Guildmage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Draener View Post
    You know who thinks it's sweet to play against 8 different decks in an 8 round tournament? People who don't like to win, or people that play combo. This is not EDH; Legacy is a competitive environment, and it should reward skill - more so than it does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Borealis View Post
    Plow their Mom every chance you get!

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