[Primer/Deck] Zoo

[Megadeus]

I mean it's a still mostly going to want to be aggressive. I agree that it is unfortunate that old style Zoo is such shit. And it's not even because of combo as much as it just cant beat actual anything. I mean I personally liked Skarrg because the toughness boost was surprisingly relevant. You get to run Nacatls right through True Names and not worry about them dying which is sweet. Or now DnT has a bunch of 3 power men like Thalia, Flickerwisp, and Serra Avenger, so it's nice to not care about them too. Congrats on the finish! I haven't sleeved up my Nacatls in awhile. I actually probably don't even have enough duals for the deck anymore at this point. I got rid of a plateau because why would I ever need 2...

[Pellefant]

Thanks for the kind words guys!

Glad people are still rocking Zoo. This looks a lot like this lists nekoyama has been doing well with on MTGO. Do you have any thoughts on Skaarg VS Kessig Wolf Run?

I'm definitely inspired by nekoyamas decks, I would love for him to post in this thread but he doesn't seem to be a sourcer. When it comes to Skarrg vs. wolf run I agree with Megadeus that the toughness boost is surprisingly relevant.

I notice you dodged all combo (not just Storm and S&T but even more fringe decks like Reanimator, Dredge, Painter, Elves, etc.), which partially explains your result.

I dodged combo, and had two really favorable matchups (goblins and deadguy ale) so lady luck was pretty kind to me. I absolutely agree you generally want to dodge combo when playing this style of zoo but that's true for traditional aggressive zoo as well.
SOME combo decks aren't THAT bad matchups though: vs. S&T I have Knights/Karakas maindeck and alot to bring in from the board (3canonists, trinisphere, Oblivion Ring, Reclamation Sage, REB) and vs. ANT a turn 2 Gaddock can be a possibility in game 1.
Elves is a real problem though, and even more so are the really fast decks like tinfins/belcher/TES/oops all spells and the like. Also High Tide is close to impossible I would imagine.


Regarding the zoo vs maverick distinction I think both Seraphix and kirbydsl have fair points. A deck with a full set of Nacatls in place of Mother of Runes enables you to play way more aggressive (if I had moms instead of cats in my G3 vs Loam prison there's no way I could have won that game). Quoting lordofthepit IIRC: "A turn 1 Mother of Runes followed by a turn 2 Hierarch means you sit back defensively. A turn 1 Nacatl followed by a turn 2 Hierarch beats for four. "
On the other hand these GSZ "big zoo" lists are very far from the classic aggro versions, I mean my list is like maybe 10 cards away from being a straight up punishing maverick deck.

It's sad that traditional zoo is close to unplayable now, and I don't think Wizards is going to ever give us enough new tools to change this fact (I mean, Ghor-Clan Rampager was the latest card that really impacted traditional zoo, right?).

[Seraphix]

...I actually probably don't even have enough duals for the deck anymore at this point. I got rid of a plateau because why would I ever need 2...

To play Zoo, of course. STEP IT UP.

[Seraphix]

Anyone else slinging Nacatls right now? I've played Punishing Zoo at 4 small local events over the last few weeks and prized at all of them.

Maindeck has been pretty constant:

4x Nacatl
4x Hierarch
3x Pridemage
2x Ooze
1x G.Teeg
4x Knight
2x Thalia, HC

4x GSZ
4x Bolt
4x Plow
3x Fire
1x Library
1x Chandra, Pyromaster

8x Fetch
3x Savannah
2x Taiga
2x Plateau
1x Forest
1x Arbor
3x Grove
1x Karakas
1x Wasteland
1x Kessig Wolf Run (tried Skarrg a bit here)

SB changes around often, right now its:

3x Thalia GoT
1x G.Teeg
1x Canonist
1x Pyroblast
1x Ancient Grudge
2x Surgical
1x E-Tutor
1x Cage
1x Needle
1x Stony Silence
1x Worship

Thalia HC has been very solid and is a natural fit in the deck. Sometimes I miss playing Tarmogoyf though, like in the Eldrazi matchup (that's what the Worship is primarily for).

[CRich3]

Anyone else slinging Nacatls right now? I've played Punishing Zoo at 4 small local events over the last few weeks and prized at all of them.

Thalia HC has been very solid and is a natural fit in the deck. Sometimes I miss playing Tarmogoyf though, like in the Eldrazi matchup (that's what the Worship is primarily for).

I go back and forth to playing zoo and deathblade, but I prefer to play fast zoo. My matchup vs eldrazi usually goes by who plays first. I should add the new Thalia because she is amazing.

[ironclad8690]

The neko hath struck again

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/534261#online

[maharis]

I've been working on a build with Oath of Nissa. The card seems really, really strong in terms of helping the deck not completely stall out and increasing the number of good keeps on turn 1. It's basically a creature OR a land in a position where you'd have to decide on a creature AND a land. I also like that it sacrifices itself to be an enchantment in the GY for Tarmogoyf.

Trouble I'm having right now is that I'm not sure which actual creatures are the strongest. I'll post my list below, but the creatures that aren't in that I'm considering:

Hooting Mandrills
Narnam Renegade
Nimble Mongoose
Renegade Rallier
Steppe Lynx

Or just more of the 2-ofs. I am trying to avoid running any sort of mana dork in order to keep it a classic aggro deck. I could see adding a couple PWs since they are hits off of Oath as well. Domri is probably the best idea and I would like it a lot with Narnam Renegade if I go in that direction.

This is the build I've had sitting on my desk for a while, I'm going to round it out by next week.

4 Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
4 Goyf
3 QPM
3 Knight OTR
2 SFM
2 Mom
1 Grim Lavamancer

4 Bolt
4 Oath of Nissa
3 Path to Exile
2 Chain Lightning
2 Lightning Helix
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sylvan Library

10 fetches
3 Taiga
2 Savannah
2 PLateau
1 Forest/Mountain/Plains

[Curby]

Not to lean too hard into library manipulation, but Sylvan Library with Domri Rade could pretty easily guarantee two cards a turn with zero life loss. Renegade Rallier would be nice to recycle Pridemages. A lot of these changes make it a slower deck though (but that might be ok).

[Megadeus]

I strongly suggest you try Ghor Clan Rampager if you haven't. It's also a reach spell that you can get off of Oath of Nissa

[maharis]

Ghor-Clan is definitely a good call, I gotta find the room for those. Also pretty good against cards like TNN and opposing goyfs/anglers just for pushing damage through. Probably better than Helix and/or Mom.

I could see a Naya midrange deck -- some sort of rebuild of a red Maverick deck maybe -- that evolves out of this list but I just want to jam some Nacatls at the moment.

Oath of Nissa is seriously really good. I'm on the lookout for other G cantrips. The well is pretty dry. What about Tireless Tracker as top end with all the fetches instead of Knight?

[Ralf]

Ghor-Clan is definitely a good call, I gotta find the room for those. Also pretty good against cards like TNN and opposing goyfs/anglers just for pushing damage through. Probably better than Helix and/or Mom.

I could see a Naya midrange deck -- some sort of rebuild of a red Maverick deck maybe -- that evolves out of this list but I just want to jam some Nacatls at the moment.

Oath of Nissa is seriously really good. I'm on the lookout for other G cantrips. The well is pretty dry. What about Tireless Tracker as top end with all the fetches instead of Knight?

Last christmas, my friends and I were fine tuning this list:

1 Cavern of Souls
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Savannah
2 Arid Mesa
2 Plateau
2 Taiga
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills

2 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Wild Nacatl

2 Lotus Petal

4 Sylvan Library

3 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Chain Lightning

SB: 2 Containment Priest
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Price of Progress
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Sudden Shock
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction

The only remaining last 2 slots to improve are the sudden shock (was pyroclasm at first). But I have yet to find something relevant.
The lone cavern is to beat Miracle.
The rest is pretty self explanatory.

[maharis]

I went to the store and picked up some cards, and had a little bit of time to play this list at legacy FNM

4 Narnam Renegade
4 Renegade Rallier
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Steppe Lynx
2 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Hooting Mandrills
1 Grim Lavamancer

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Oath of Nissa
3 Path to Exile
2 Chain Lightning
1 Sylvan Library
1 Domri Rade

10 fetches
7 duals
2 basics

3 Thalia, GOT
3 Containment Priest
2 Pithing Needle
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Pyroblast
1 Null Rod
1 Forked Bolt

Rd 1: Vial Maverick. He also had Renegade Rallier in his deck. Die roll was deterministic in the first couple games (he won and took G1 fast; I was OTP and cruised in game 2). Game 3 was very exciting. I had Needle on Mom, he QPM'd it, I Ralliered it back, he Ralliered back his QPM and killed it again. Then I found another Rallier to bring it back, but he found yet another Rallier and double-Wasted me down to a single Forest. He had a huge KOTR, had to be at least 13/13, but I was sitting on a couple Narnam Renegades and he couldn't attack thru without mom. Eventually I started to rebuild my board, but he found Scryb Ranger and SFM to get a Jitte active. I missed a winning line involving Lavamancer and Bolt with the Jitte trigger on the stack and I died with him at 1 life.

Rd. 2: Omnisneak. I wasn't expecting much but I did win game 2 thanks to t2 Thalia and Ghor-Clan Rampager. Game 3 was close, he showed in Griz on t2 but I dropped Thalia and squeezed his mana while I had 7 power coming across to blank Griselbrand (Thalia, Narnam, Nacatl). He ended up getting off a second S&T and with Ancient Tomb had just enough to find an Intuition and triple Emrakul which wasn't taxed by Thalia.

Thoughts:

--The Steppe Lynx/Rallier idea seems good in theory but I think is too clunky. I think Lynx and Mandrills could just be 3 Knights and a Skarrg, which would allow me to run some SB lands like Karakas or Maze which would've both been good in these games.

--That being said, Rallier is the real deal and Narnam Renegade is way better than Kird Ape. Revolt is probably the best Legacy mechanic since Prowess. Rallier's recursion is excellent, and I am considering Seal of Fire instead of Chain Lightning because of that synergy. The Deathtouch on Narnam was crucial to me not just getting run over by a huge knight in match 1.

--Oath of Nissa is also great. In my second game vs. Omni, I kept 6 with 1 land and Thalia and Oath found my second land so I could get her down, then a later one found the winning Ghor-Clan. These new cards are good, even if old-fashioned zoo isn't the best shell. Gonna keep trying for a bit though.

[maharis]

I've been playing some variants of this deck on MTGO and sadly haven't done so well. I usually win 1-2 rounds in a league but I did 3-2 one of them and get a free roll.

Because of the price of Tarmogoyf I got a little creative and decided to go all-in on a landfall plan. This was the build that pulled off the 3-2, including a 2-0 win against Miracles:



Frustratingly, I seem to win at least one game in almost every match, barring disastrous matchups like storm (which is very popular online). On the other hand, I've ultimated Ajani, Caller of the Pride twice, which is pretty awesome. Never sleep on a three-mana planeswalker. Dropping one on turn 2 and just ticking up till you send in the cats is a perfectly legitimate plan.

But losing to storm doesn't bother me as much as losing to Delver, which I feel like should be a better matchup than it is. The major problems I've had with it are that timely Wastelands can really hurt and postboard they become the control deck and sit back, picking off the threats.

I'm considering moving into more of a midrange deck, leveraging Mother of Runes for protection but still on the Rallier value plan. Still trying to work out what that looks like. I don't think Berserk is in that deck, nor Steppe Lynx. Maybe Narnam Renegade just because it's such a nice roadblock, but I imagine the plan is going to be to go bigger and try to piece together a dominating board.

A Dark Confidant-type effect in Naya would do wonders for this deck. I don't think any is ever going to be forthcoming.

[Megadeus]

There's always Sylvan Library

[jaruri]

I've been wanting to build zoo for a bit and after looking over this thread, I've been thinking of this list.

22 Lands:
8 Fetch
3 Grove
3 Basic
Karakas
Kessig
Wasteland
5 Duals

Creatures:
3 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Renegade Rallier
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Bloodbraid Elf OR 1 Thrun, 1 Huntsmaster

1 Arlinn Kord

4 Oath of Nissa OR 4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Library

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Punishing Fire
4 Swords to Plowshares

Also, one thing to note is that my local metagame is very fair, with a lot of DnT, BUG, and various delver decks. Almost no combo.
I'm mostly conflicted between Green Suns and Oath. Oath is really good for finding things in a pinch, and is usable when you're low on mana, but Green Suns finds exactly what you need.

I've also been thinking about Bloodbraid, since I'm coming over from Jund and it seems like it would slot in pretty well with my list. I haven't had any chances to test yet (hoping to sleeve this up for the next legacy night). Not sure if its worth it over something like Thrun or Huntsmaster though.

Any feedback would be appreciated!

[Seraphix]

I've been wanting to build zoo for a bit and after looking over this thread, I've been thinking of this list.

22 Lands:
8 Fetch
3 Grove
3 Basic
Karakas
Kessig
Wasteland
5 Duals

Creatures:
3 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Renegade Rallier
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Bloodbraid Elf OR 1 Thrun, 1 Huntsmaster

1 Arlinn Kord

4 Oath of Nissa OR 4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Library

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Punishing Fire
4 Swords to Plowshares

Also, one thing to note is that my local metagame is very fair, with a lot of DnT, BUG, and various delver decks. Almost no combo.
I'm mostly conflicted between Green Suns and Oath. Oath is really good for finding things in a pinch, and is usable when you're low on mana, but Green Suns finds exactly what you need.

I've also been thinking about Bloodbraid, since I'm coming over from Jund and it seems like it would slot in pretty well with my list. I haven't had any chances to test yet (hoping to sleeve this up for the next legacy night). Not sure if its worth it over something like Thrun or Huntsmaster though.

Any feedback would be appreciated!

If you're going to play Oath, play Bloodbraid Elf. I think I'd want Tarmogoyfs in an Oath list too. If playing Zenith, you can try a different 4-drop green creature as a 1-of.

As far as 4 mana Planeswalkers go, there are much better options than Arlinn Kord: Elspeth Knight-Errant, Garruk Relentless, Chandra Pyromaster, Ajani Vengeant, Gideon Ally of Zendikar...

For your manabase, I think 3 basics is too many. I went from playing 3 to 2 to 1 in Punishing Zoo. Once you're playing a bunch of utility lands like Grove, Karakas, and Wasteland Wild Nacatl becomes surprisingly hard to power up.

[jaruri]

If you're going to play Oath, play Bloodbraid Elf. I think I'd want Tarmogoyfs in an Oath list too. If playing Zenith, you can try a different 4-drop green creature as a 1-of.

As far as 4 mana Planeswalkers go, there are much better options than Arlinn Kord: Elspeth Knight-Errant, Garruk Relentless, Chandra Pyromaster, Ajani Vengeant, Gideon Ally of Zendikar...

For your manabase, I think 3 basics is too many. I went from playing 3 to 2 to 1 in Punishing Zoo. Once you're playing a bunch of utility lands like Grove, Karakas, and Wasteland Wild Nacatl becomes surprisingly hard to power up.

Thanks for the advice!

I think I'll have to test both the Oath + BBE + Goyf and GSZ lists to decide, both sound equally awesome. Hopefully I can get some games in testing before I choose which to bring to legacy night.

I was also thinking of running a Garruk instead, but I like Arlinn's set of abilities alot. She does pretty much everything, though sometimes she isn't on the right side which is an issue. I also disregarded double mana req planeswalkers mostly because every deck where I am is packing 4 wastelands and I'm afraid I'll never get to double white/red. If I wasn't as worried about that, I would definitely be playing a Gideon, he has been amazing for me in other decks so far. Wastelands are also the reason why I originally choose 3 basics, to hedge against getting my lands wasted too much. It definitely does put alot of strain on getting Nacatl online though, so I think I'll cut one (the mountain?) and see where it goes from there.

Thanks again for the help!

[Megadeus]

Poor showing and your post about Steppe Lynx inspired me to build a deck that will go 0-4 next week.

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Narnam Renegade
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Renegade Rallier
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Hooting Mandrills

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Price of Progress
2 Crop Rotation
3 Urza's Bauble

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Arid Mesa
2 Savannah
2 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain

SB: 2 Choke
3 Seal of Primordium
2 Pithing Needle
3 Pyroblast
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Faerie Macabre

It's probably terrible, but Renegade Rallier with a fetch can get a steppe lynx to an 8/9. Also can get back Bauble to draw multiple cards, and I think having Deathtouch Kird Ape man is solid.

[Tokugawa]

Poor showing and your post about Steppe Lynx inspired me to build a deck that will go 0-4 next week.

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Narnam Renegade
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Renegade Rallier
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Hooting Mandrills

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Price of Progress
2 Crop Rotation
3 Urza's Bauble

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Arid Mesa
2 Savannah
2 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain

SB: 2 Choke
3 Seal of Primordium
2 Pithing Needle
3 Pyroblast
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Faerie Macabre

It's probably terrible, but Renegade Rallier with a fetch can get a steppe lynx to an 8/9. Also can get back Bauble to draw multiple cards, and I think having Deathtouch Kird Ape man is solid.

Bauble with 0 Tarmogoyf and 0 Prowess creature seems does not make sense.

[Megadeus]

It's an easy revolt trigger and it can also be brought back with rallier to draw an extra card if needed. Goyf doesn't do anything in a deck where many of my creatures already don't, and prowess creatures are bad in a deck with 25 creatures.