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Thread: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

  1. #81
    Stomping blue decks with "dead" decks, as usual.
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7 View Post
    I'm stepping out of my comfort zone a bit by playing this deck (I have mostly been playing Storm and Deathblade recently), but Zoo can be powerful in the right metagame. I enjoy beating "good" players with this deck. Here is my current list:

    4 Experiment One
    4 Wild Nacatl
    4 Goblin Guide
    3 Kird Ape
    2 Grim Lavamancer
    4 Burning Tree Emissary
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Thalia
    1 Gaddock Teeg

    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    2 Ghor-Clan Rampager

    1 Mountain
    1 Forest
    2 Taiga
    2 Plateau
    1 Savannah
    1 Horizon Canopy
    4 Wooded Foothills
    3 Windswept Heath
    3 Arid Mesa
    2 Wasteland

    SB
    4 Mindbreak Trap
    4 Angel of Despair
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Krosan Grip
    2 Gaddock Teeg

    I feel pretty bad about running such a janky SB, but hey, it's Zoo. I feel really good about playing against any fair deck, so the SB needs to be full of dumb hate.

    Anyways... There it is. I'm going to continue testing it, and I might play it in a local event soon.
    Hmm, Experiment One is definetly something to be tested. I can see a lot of potential in that card. Still, I see some issues in your list. First of all, a singleton Gaddock Teeg is really unreliable in traditional Zoo (due to the lack of GSZ). You won't see that card very often in the match-ups you need him. I would personally move it to the sideboard. Second, the lack of Qasali Pridemages in your 75, this card is REALLY good in Zoo, because it's a Naturalize beatstick, which is really necessary against many decks (and makes sideboarding pretty easy in match-ups that we don't need artifact/enchantment hate). I also think that you could swap Ghor-Clan Rampager for a more resilient pump, like Rancor.

    Another point is the lack of Price of Progress/Boros Charm. With only 8 burns (that mostly go to the face), you're relying heavily on your attack phase, in which control decks are prepared to stop you cold. Price of Progress is usually the final blow, and it makes the BUG/RUG match-up really easy.
    Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return

  2. #82

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Ghor-clan serves a completely different purpose than Rancor. It deals with Goyf and acts as an uncounterable 4 to the face. I probably shouldn't be running Teeg main; after playtesting more I would make the change of -1 Teeg, +1 Ghor-clan. Pridemage isn't necessary because you are killing them so fast, and you deal with a Stoneforge before it is relevant. This isn't traditional Zoo. It's blistering fast and spends the midgame playing a Thalia to put the game out of reach or casting something like a Ghor-clan to force bad blocks and push through the final damage. Burning Tree gives you some unbeatable starts against fair decks, and Experiment One is playing out like Nacatls 5-8.

  3. #83
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    I've been tweaking Zoo for the past few days, in order to find the list that has the best speed/consistency balance, and I think I've found something very close to what I was looking for. This is almost R/G Sligh, but with a few resilient threats that are really good at punching people in the face. Path to Exile has been really lackluster in the past few lists I've tried, and I finally cut it. The list is running smoothly and I've been winning a lot against a lot of popular decks, like Deathblade, RUG, BUG and GW Maverick. Miracles and Combo (in general) are hard match-ups, but I suppose that's fair enough, we can't beat everything.

    The list:
    4 Arid Mesa
    4 Wooded Foothills
    2 Windswept Heath
    4 Taiga
    2 Plateau
    1 Horizon Canopy
    1 Forest
    1 Mountain
    4 Wild Nacatl
    4 Experiment One
    4 Kird Ape
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Goblin Guide
    3 Qasali Pridemage
    3 Grim Lavamancer
    2 Loxodon Smiter
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Price of Progress
    2 Sylvan Library
    SB: 3 Oblivion Ring
    SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
    SB: 3 Gaddock Teeg
    SB: 2 Pyroblast
    SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
    SB: 1 Krosan Grip
    SB: 1 Sulfuric Vortex

    Price of Progress is much better than Boros Charm, and it's frequently hitting for 6~8 against BUG and Deathblade (that have really awful manabases). It's often the final blow after they manage to deal with my initial threats (that can punch for 10+ commonly). Sulfuric Vortex is replacing a Red Elemental Blast. It's good as a singleton, and comes handy in control matchups. Gaddock Teeg is a house against that new Mono Blue Show and Tell, since they only win by casting Enter the Infinite and other similar expensive win-spells. Oblivion Ring is as good as always against random Planeswalker, and can catch a Show and Tell player off guard when we pressure them to combo as soon as they can.
    Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return

  4. #84

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandalize View Post
    I've been tweaking Zoo for the past few days, in order to find the list that has the best speed/consistency balance, and I think I've found something very close to what I was looking for. This is almost R/G Sligh, but with a few resilient threats that are really good at punching people in the face. Path to Exile has been really lackluster in the past few lists I've tried, and I finally cut it. The list is running smoothly and I've been winning a lot against a lot of popular decks, like Deathblade, RUG, BUG and GW Maverick. Miracles and Combo (in general) are hard match-ups, but I suppose that's fair enough, we can't beat everything.

    The list:
    4 Arid Mesa
    4 Wooded Foothills
    2 Windswept Heath
    4 Taiga
    2 Plateau
    1 Horizon Canopy
    1 Forest
    1 Mountain
    4 Wild Nacatl
    4 Experiment One
    4 Kird Ape
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Goblin Guide
    3 Qasali Pridemage
    3 Grim Lavamancer
    2 Loxodon Smiter
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Price of Progress
    2 Sylvan Library
    SB: 3 Oblivion Ring
    SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
    SB: 3 Gaddock Teeg
    SB: 2 Pyroblast
    SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
    SB: 1 Krosan Grip
    SB: 1 Sulfuric Vortex

    ...
    Is Smiter better than Knight? I find that the utility of a couple Knights in traditional Zoo is pretty good, as it lets you run a Karakas and Canopy for good effect. I also like 2 Wasteland in Zoo since Grove is rampant, and Knight combos with the Wastes.

  5. #85
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Zoo has recently top 8'd an event it plays ghor clan main deck I wonder where the list is :)

  6. #86

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    To the discussions above:
    Experiment one is clearly worse than Nacatl. EO requires you to play 2 creatures T2, while you might wanna play creature+Burn or something. Nacatl just requires lands. There is an even better card than Nacatl: Hidden Herd. This gold can be played T1 and just compare the two situations: you have eiter Nacatl or Herd T1 and choose to play Herd first. Your opponent decides to Wasteland your Taiga. You now have a 3/3 beater. A Nacatl would either be 2/2 when attacking T2 or you would get a Plateau which plays none of your early game threats. EO is a fixed 2/2 in this situation. Maybe even 1/1.

    I saw some people play Kird Ape. This is a bad choice. It simply too slow for ANT/TES/Show and Tell Combo. These Combo decks are pretty popular and just wasting 1 Damage per Turn just makes the Combo matchup worse and worse when you could play cards that just are more efficient(Herd, Guide, Lynx, heck, even Delver)

    To the Smiters:
    They really shine against UWx Miracles/ SFM Control, RUG Delver, the most played deck right now, BUG lists, Show and Tell, decks packing Liliana of the Veil or Hymn, aka everything with Black.
    I tested them a while against RUG on cockatrice and it just sometimes wins games. But if you decide to play it, I think the playset is just about right.

    Ghor-Clan Rampager:
    My god. RUG Delver plays Stifle. Even the potential Chance of getting it stifled and their Goyf kills your Nacatl , by that trading 2 for 1 is the absolute worst that can happen midgame.

    If you guys test BTE, tell me please how it works out. I imagine it being inconsistent but awesome when it goes off. Heck, I can imagine a RG version of this deck. Potential T3 kills.

    Edit: Yeah I agree that Price is better than the Boros thingy. The potential Utility is just unnecessary. Double striking a Nacatl is useless since you mame morde damage when using it as Burn. When you wanna attack with a double striked 4/5 Tarmogoyf you should already be winning. PoP just finishes games sometimes. Period.

    RUWG Zoo

    Creatures(23)
    4 Wild Nacatl
    4 Delver of Secrets
    3 Noble Hierarch
    3 Grim Lavamancer
    2 Loxodon Smiter
    3 Qasali Pridemage
    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Knight of the Reliquary
    1 Scavenging Ooze

    Spells(18)
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Path to Exile
    3 GSZ
    2 Chain Lightning
    2 Lightning Helix

    Lands(20)
    4 Arid Mesa
    4 Misty Rainforest
    1 Steam Vents
    1 Stomping Grounds
    1 Sacred Foundry
    1 Hallowed Fountain
    1 Temple Garden
    1 Breeding Pool
    1 Island
    1 Forest
    1 Mountain
    1 Plains

    It is basically a fun deck but it plays actually pretty smooth. T1 Breeding Pool, Nacatl
    T2 Sacred Foundry, Pridemage is a pretty strong play. I wanted to include a Karakas against Show and Tell. Maybe I'll remove the Plains.
    SB:
    Graveyard Hate:
    1 Bojuka Bog
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    Combo Hate:
    3 Spell Pierce
    1 REB
    1 Pyroblast
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    Artifact(Affinity, UWx SFM Ctrl, etc.)
    2 Krosan Grip
    1 Ancient Grudge
    Utility:
    2 Pithing Needle

    Pithing Needle is basically the best answer against Vial, SDT, SFM etc.
    Spell Pierce hits everything that annoys us and can't be removed with Burn, REB that counters a Brainstorm against TES is a good play. I thought about adding a Silence. Maybe removing Gaddock or a Spell Pierce

    The End
    Last edited by Martin; 07-06-2013 at 05:51 PM.

  7. #87
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    I recently picked up Zoo again after a very long hiatus (2 years or so). I have always preferred hyper-speed Zoo, and decided to test out newer cards like Experiment One and Vexing Devil. Here is the initial list:

    Fast Zoo 1.0

    4 Experiment One
    4 Wild Nacatl
    4 Goblin Guide
    4 Vexing Devil
    3 Kird Ape
    4 Tarmogoyf
    3 Ghor-Clan Rampager

    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    2 Lightning Helix
    3 Price of Progress
    1 Fireblast

    4 Wooded Foothills
    4 Arid Mesa
    3 Windswept Heath
    4 Taiga
    3 Plateau
    1 Forest
    1 Mountain

    Sideboard

    3 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Pyroblast
    2 Gaddock Teeg
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    3 Serenity
    2 Sulfuric Vortex

    This list managed a mediocre 2-2 performance at our weekly Legacy tournament, although I (hilariously) beat TES, keeping up my undefeated streak with fast Zoo vs. Storm. I lost to BUG Cascade due to Deathrite Shaman nonsense, and Kird Apes were quite bad in practice. I also punted a match to Imperial Painter by not fetching basic forest on turn one (the fact that I drew basically no burn all match hurt as well). As a result of these things, I made these changes for version 1.1:

    -3 Kird Ape

    +3 Grim Lavamancer
    +1 Plains

    I added the Plains as a 61st card as 20 lands seemed like a hair too few. I went 2-1 in another small Legacy tournament with this list, despite being paired up against Sneaky Show, Omniclash, and U/W control (all bad matchups). I plan to switch the Lightning Helixes to Boros Charms now that my German playset showed up in the mail. I'm considering swapping the Plains out for a Savannah, because it turns out basic Plains is almost completely worthless maindeck. I also might reconfigure the sideboard to include Thalia, who is better against the combo in my meta than Canonist or Teeg. My overall impression was the list had a lot of raw power, but will just require some tweaking (especially the sideboard) to succeed depending on meta.
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    Clearly aimed at Modern plebs, not gonna be a pillar of our format.
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  8. #88
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    I decided to go old school tonight and played Punishing Fire (Big) Zoo, which I haven't touched in almost two years. Went 4-0, beating Reanimator (2-1), Deathblade (2-0), Punishing Jund (2-0), and Deathblade (2-0).

    As long as you're expecting a lot of Blade decks, this is a great choice. With the quality of hate bears recently, it can hold its own against certain combo decks too.

  9. #89
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthepit View Post
    I decided to go old school tonight and played Punishing Fire (Big) Zoo, which I haven't touched in almost two years. Went 4-0, beating Reanimator (2-1), Deathblade (2-0), Punishing Jund (2-0), and Deathblade (2-0).

    As long as you're expecting a lot of Blade decks, this is a great choice. With the quality of hate bears recently, it can hold its own against certain combo decks too.
    What's your list? :)

  10. #90

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthepit View Post
    I decided to go old school tonight and played Punishing Fire (Big) Zoo, which I haven't touched in almost two years. Went 4-0, beating Reanimator (2-1), Deathblade (2-0), Punishing Jund (2-0), and Deathblade (2-0).

    As long as you're expecting a lot of Blade decks, this is a great choice. With the quality of hate bears recently, it can hold its own against certain combo decks too.
    I think we have the advantage in such matchups as Delver, Blade, Deathrite.dec, Jund, Junk, Deadguy- ish type decks because of P.Fire since it kills a Goyf when casted twice, kills flipped Delver, Bob, SFM, LS Tokens etc. etc. etc. AND it gives us this lategame reach that we sometimes might lack.
    With a Sideboard with RIP for dredge, Reanimator, RUG Delver, etc. , Some meta-dependant Stuff and at least 6 Slots combo hate, heck this might work! If I had the cards I'd test it but without them I will just test on Cockatrice.

  11. #91

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7 View Post
    Is Smiter better than Knight? I find that the utility of a couple Knights in traditional Zoo is pretty good, as it lets you run a Karakas and Canopy for good effect. I also like 2 Wasteland in Zoo since Grove is rampant, and Knight combos with the Wastes.
    Smiter is nice when you run RIP in the board, that deck posted above didn't.

  12. #92
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Played in another local with an updated version of my above list. It is currently as follows:

    4 Experiment One
    4 Goblin Guide
    4 Wild Nacatl
    4 Vexing Devil
    3 Grim Lavamancer
    4 Tarmogoyf
    3 Ghor-Clan Rampager

    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    2 Boros Charm
    3 Price of Progress
    1 Fireblast

    4 Wooded Foothills
    4 Arid Mesa
    3 Windswept Heath
    4 Taiga
    3 Plateau
    1 Savannah
    1 Mountain
    1 Forest

    Sideboard
    3 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Pyroblast
    3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    3 Serenity
    2 Krosan Grip

    From the list in my previous post, I went -1 Plains, -2 Lightning Helix, +1 Savannah, +2 Boros Charm in the maindeck. I swapped Sulfuric Vortex for Krosan Grip in the board (Vortex was primarily anti-Batterskull tech, Grip answers that and much more) and went -2 Teeg, -1 Canonist, +3 Thalia (I think Thalia is better against combo in general - Teeg has limited utility against the new breed of blue combo).

    The tournament was 4 rounds (17 players) and I went a mediocre 2-2. Round one I played against a homebrew U/W/r control deck featuring Rest in Peace, Energy Field, Isochron Scepter, Enlightened Tutor etc. While I get out of the gate quickly game one, Scepter + Lightning Helix pulls my opponent just out of burn range and he drops RIP + Helm after killing all my dudes. I board something like this:

    -3 Price of Progress
    -3 Grim Lavamancer
    -1 Vexing Devil
    -3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
    -1 Boros Charm

    +3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    +3 Pyroblast
    +3 Serenity
    +2 Krosan Grip

    Games two and three are both rather drawn-out affairs, with him playing lots of hate, me blowing it up, and my dudes getting Helixed, StP'd, and Supreme Verdicted away. I win them both as my topdecks are quite strong, but this is definitely not an easy matchup.

    Round two I open a fast hand with only lands and dudes. I open turn 1 Experiment One, and my opponent drops Underground Sea. I expect Delver, Thoughtseize, or Deathrite Shaman. My opponent plays none and passes the turn. I think "oh shit, combo" and play double Nacatl on turn 2. My opponent drops a blue fetch and passes. I swing for a bunch, play Tarmogoyf and another guy, and pass with more than lethal on board. My opponent fetches Tundra, casts EOT Brainstorm, and 4 for 1's me with Terminus on his draw step and him at 3 life. Counterbalance and two StPs follow and I get locked out. I board similarly to round one. Game two is long and painful. I whittle my opponent down to just a few life with a couple of dudes. He has Humility and Counterbalance, and I have two 1/1 guys and Fireblast in hand. He Brainstorms on my attack step and goes to three life. Second main phase I Fireblast and he flips Terminus on CB. I had completely forgotten that both of those spells cost 6 - if I had waited and just responded to the Terminus I take this game. After this I don't draw gas and get locked out by Humility + Moat + Counterbalance.

    Round 3 is 4-color Delver (a new list which appears to have no Goyf, but plays Mongoose and Deathrite). These games are very close as my hands aren't particularly fast. Game one my opponent misplays which may or may not have mattered depending on my final topdeck. Game two we both start running out of gas (he has Deathrite but is low on life) when I topdeck two Tarmogoyf's in a row and start the beats. He stays alive for several turns with Deathrite activations and chump blockers, but eventually the Goof brigade gets there. I didn't actually sideboard here, although the Pyroblasts probably would have been a good idea (I wasn't sure what to cut though).

    At this point I'm 2-1 and feeling good against a lot of the possible matchups in the room (lots of blue tempo and G/B/x decks, and I've already played against all the scary board control). Unfortunately, I got paired against my buddy Esper3k (playing U/B Omniclash). Game one is a straight race - I win the roll and drop him to 3 life before dying on his turn 3. Game two I board like this:

    -3 Price of Progress
    -3 Grim Lavamancer
    -2 Ghor-Clan Rampager
    -1 Windswept Heath

    +3 Pyroblast
    +3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    +1 Ethersworn Canonist
    +2 Krosan Grip

    My 7 unfortunately has no hate, but the hand is extremely solid and a likely turn 4 kill, so I keep (I figure that forcing him to have the turn 3 combo is better than going to six where I may or may not draw relevant cards). I go turn 1 Experiment One, turn 2 Tarmogoyf, Turn 3 Nacatl, Vexing Devil, Bolt you, leaving him at 6. Unfortunately for me, he has the combo and I die on his turn 3. This is arguably my worst matchup in current Legacy - unfortunately I get paired up against it every time I play this deck it seems.

    Some changes I am considering are -1 Ghor-Clan, +1 Boros Charm (once I RTFC and figured out Bloodrush only works during attack step, it doesn't seem quite as good. Despite this, these guys are still pretty good - I even hard-cast one to win game 1 against 4-color Delver). Boros Charm is a large burn spell that also messes up combat math and saves the team from nonsense like Supreme Verdict. I am also considering dropping the Serenities for more Grips and another Blast, as the rash of MUD and Affinity in my meta seems to have been replaced by artifact/enchantment heavy board control decks against which it generally just gets countered or Detention-Sphered. My meta (or at least my pairings) are pretty hostile to this deck right now, so it is definitely an uphill battle. I will probably play it again tomorrow though, as it is a blast to pilot. I will report back if anything interesting happens.
    Lord of the Chalice

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    Since playing against Spiral Tide provides a lot fun for both players is something only someone who's not had sex for quite a while could enjoy, I pull out GW Maverick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brainstorm Ape View Post
    Spikes are supposed to enjoy winning by leveraging their talents, but this card can't fetch the most SKILL INTENSIVE card in all of Magic?

    Clearly aimed at Modern plebs, not gonna be a pillar of our format.
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  13. #93

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar View Post
    Played in another local with an updated version of my above list. It is currently as follows:

    4 Experiment One
    4 Goblin Guide
    4 Wild Nacatl
    4 Vexing Devil
    3 Grim Lavamancer
    4 Tarmogoyf
    3 Ghor-Clan Rampager

    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    2 Boros Charm
    3 Price of Progress
    1 Fireblast

    4 Wooded Foothills
    4 Arid Mesa
    3 Windswept Heath
    4 Taiga
    3 Plateau
    1 Savannah
    1 Mountain
    1 Forest

    Sideboard
    3 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Pyroblast
    3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    3 Serenity
    2 Krosan Grip

    From the list in my previous post, I went -1 Plains, -2 Lightning Helix, +1 Savannah, +2 Boros Charm in the maindeck. I swapped Sulfuric Vortex for Krosan Grip in the board (Vortex was primarily anti-Batterskull tech, Grip answers that and much more) and went -2 Teeg, -1 Canonist, +3 Thalia (I think Thalia is better against combo in general - Teeg has limited utility against the new breed of blue combo).

    The tournament was 4 rounds (17 players) and I went a mediocre 2-2. Round one I played against a homebrew U/W/r control deck featuring Rest in Peace, Energy Field, Isochron Scepter, Enlightened Tutor etc. While I get out of the gate quickly game one, Scepter + Lightning Helix pulls my opponent just out of burn range and he drops RIP + Helm after killing all my dudes. I board something like this:

    -3 Price of Progress
    -3 Grim Lavamancer
    -1 Vexing Devil
    -3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
    -1 Boros Charm

    +3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    +3 Pyroblast
    +3 Serenity
    +2 Krosan Grip

    Games two and three are both rather drawn-out affairs, with him playing lots of hate, me blowing it up, and my dudes getting Helixed, StP'd, and Supreme Verdicted away. I win them both as my topdecks are quite strong, but this is definitely not an easy matchup.

    Round two I open a fast hand with only lands and dudes. I open turn 1 Experiment One, and my opponent drops Underground Sea. I expect Delver, Thoughtseize, or Deathrite Shaman. My opponent plays none and passes the turn. I think "oh shit, combo" and play double Nacatl on turn 2. My opponent drops a blue fetch and passes. I swing for a bunch, play Tarmogoyf and another guy, and pass with more than lethal on board. My opponent fetches Tundra, casts EOT Brainstorm, and 4 for 1's me with Terminus on his draw step and him at 3 life. Counterbalance and two StPs follow and I get locked out. I board similarly to round one. Game two is long and painful. I whittle my opponent down to just a few life with a couple of dudes. He has Humility and Counterbalance, and I have two 1/1 guys and Fireblast in hand. He Brainstorms on my attack step and goes to three life. Second main phase I Fireblast and he flips Terminus on CB. I had completely forgotten that both of those spells cost 6 - if I had waited and just responded to the Terminus I take this game. After this I don't draw gas and get locked out by Humility + Moat + Counterbalance.

    Round 3 is 4-color Delver (a new list which appears to have no Goyf, but plays Mongoose and Deathrite). These games are very close as my hands aren't particularly fast. Game one my opponent misplays which may or may not have mattered depending on my final topdeck. Game two we both start running out of gas (he has Deathrite but is low on life) when I topdeck two Tarmogoyf's in a row and start the beats. He stays alive for several turns with Deathrite activations and chump blockers, but eventually the Goof brigade gets there. I didn't actually sideboard here, although the Pyroblasts probably would have been a good idea (I wasn't sure what to cut though).

    At this point I'm 2-1 and feeling good against a lot of the possible matchups in the room (lots of blue tempo and G/B/x decks, and I've already played against all the scary board control). Unfortunately, I got paired against my buddy Esper3k (playing U/B Omniclash). Game one is a straight race - I win the roll and drop him to 3 life before dying on his turn 3. Game two I board like this:

    -3 Price of Progress
    -3 Grim Lavamancer
    -2 Ghor-Clan Rampager
    -1 Windswept Heath

    +3 Pyroblast
    +3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    +1 Ethersworn Canonist
    +2 Krosan Grip

    My 7 unfortunately has no hate, but the hand is extremely solid and a likely turn 4 kill, so I keep (I figure that forcing him to have the turn 3 combo is better than going to six where I may or may not draw relevant cards). I go turn 1 Experiment One, turn 2 Tarmogoyf, Turn 3 Nacatl, Vexing Devil, Bolt you, leaving him at 6. Unfortunately for me, he has the combo and I die on his turn 3. This is arguably my worst matchup in current Legacy - unfortunately I get paired up against it every time I play this deck it seems.

    Some changes I am considering are -1 Ghor-Clan, +1 Boros Charm (once I RTFC and figured out Bloodrush only works during attack step, it doesn't seem quite as good. Despite this, these guys are still pretty good - I even hard-cast one to win game 1 against 4-color Delver). Boros Charm is a large burn spell that also messes up combat math and saves the team from nonsense like Supreme Verdict. I am also considering dropping the Serenities for more Grips and another Blast, as the rash of MUD and Affinity in my meta seems to have been replaced by artifact/enchantment heavy board control decks against which it generally just gets countered or Detention-Sphered. My meta (or at least my pairings) are pretty hostile to this deck right now, so it is definitely an uphill battle. I will probably play it again tomorrow though, as it is a blast to pilot. I will report back if anything interesting happens.
    Thank you for this detailed information, I'm just curious how the Experiment Ones worked out for? I just can't think of it as a card that would fit into Zoo. I would always tell myself it is too unstable.
    About that match: What would you add to make your matchup better? What would you remove? Why?
    Have you played the RUG Delver matchup yet? I have experienced that our matchup lies around 50/50.
    Has any of you played against the new Deathblade deck? The 4c Control one. Can any body give a detailed report on this matchup?

    Thanks in advance

  14. #94
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    Thank you for this detailed information, I'm just curious how the Experiment Ones worked out for? I just can't think of it as a card that would fit into Zoo. I would always tell myself it is too unstable.
    About that match: What would you add to make your matchup better? What would you remove? Why?
    Have you played the RUG Delver matchup yet? I have experienced that our matchup lies around 50/50.
    Has any of you played against the new Deathblade deck? The 4c Control one. Can any body give a detailed report on this matchup?

    Thanks in advance
    Experiment One is excellent, it is much more consistent than Steppe Lynx and doesn't require you to fetch white mana turn one. Since this deck has so many dudes it almost always swings as a 2/2, and often as a 3/3 turn 2. The regeneration ability can also catch people by surprise.

    If you're referring to the Omnishow matchup, I don't think there is much that can be done other than bringing in a bunch of bears and blasts and hoping you get there. The matchup is awful.

    I haven't played against RUG Delver, just the 4-color variant I mentioned. Honestly, you should beat RUG unless they manascrew you - this deck has a lot of removal for Delver (+ blasts postboard), you just have to ensure they don't run you out of gas and beat you with Tarmogoyf. Deathblade is just another control matchup - kill Deathrite and Stoneforge Mystic and run them over. Postboard bring in Krosan Grips for equipment.

    I ended up playing Lands instead of this deck so I don't have any more info from this weekend. My meta is becoming super hostile to both Lands and Zoo though (25% Show and Tell, + a number of Terminus decks), so I am likely going to have to switch decks for the foreseeable future.
    Lord of the Chalice

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    Since playing against Spiral Tide provides a lot fun for both players is something only someone who's not had sex for quite a while could enjoy, I pull out GW Maverick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brainstorm Ape View Post
    Spikes are supposed to enjoy winning by leveraging their talents, but this card can't fetch the most SKILL INTENSIVE card in all of Magic?

    Clearly aimed at Modern plebs, not gonna be a pillar of our format.
    Stompy Discord: https://discord.gg/6cesvkz

  15. #95

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    A brief report (based on memory) on last nights game w. 24 players.

    My love for Zoo is never ending and since it has been quite some time I last played it (do to Team America and Jund testing) I finally got convinced to try it out again - mostly motivated by the arrival of Experiment One (and Thalia for that matter).

    My list was

    MD:
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Wild Nacatl
    4 Goblin Guide
    4 Experiment One
    3 Grim Lavamancer
    3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    3 Qasali Pridemage

    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Path to Exile
    2 Price of Progress

    2 Sylvan Library

    3 Taiga
    2 Plateau
    1 Savannah
    1 Mountain
    1 Plains
    1 Forest
    4 Wooded Foothills
    4 Arid Mesa
    2 Windswept Heath

    SB:
    3 Oblivion Ring
    4 Leyline of Sanctity
    3 Pyroblast
    3 Surgical Extraction
    1 Sulfuric Vortex
    1 Umezawa's Jitte

    Round 1 - Show n Tell
    G1 i hold a 7 hand with Thalia, GG, Sylvan, fetch and some other stuff. I had an idea of what opponent was playing but have had a few months break so wasn't sure. I win die roll and go fetch, land, GG, attack. Trigger reveals a SnT and my fears were confirmed. He goes land-go. I go land, and know that my Thalia is the key atm - and my only hope. But fearing FoW I try to trick him to counter my Sylvan instead. He doesn't. (At this point I totally blew out the existence of two-mana lands like City of Traitors (....) so I thought I had one more turn. EOT Echoing truth on Thalia. He plays that land, SnT, Emrakul, scoop.
    G2. I SB in O-rings, pyroblast and I think surgicals. Remove Paths and some more. Same story, I beat him a little and he goes off with SnT before I get any help from SB cards. He kills by Omniscience and leaving Emrakul in Library, uses Release the Ants to shoot me to death. (I've never heard of that card, but if I might have boarded in Leylines just in case)
    0-1

    Round 2 - UR delver
    G1 His creatures die to easilty to my thousand removals and I walk him over. Didnt help him either that he mulled to 5.
    G2. SB for Pyroblasts. I can use almost anything but takes out Qasali i think. Same thing, i fetch basics only with PoP in hand (he had one in hand too!) and beats him down until it can burn him for the rest. I see the potential of EO in this game as it's a 3/3 alongside a Nacatl. He needs to burn one and is about to burn the EO but the two counters meant he couldnt and he had to go for the Nacatl. The EO later grew and helped killing him off.
    1-1

    Round 3 - RIP/helm combo
    G1 - I attack and burn him to 5 life, but he Terminus off my creatures and with triple top and counterbalance he keeps my from playing anything. A shame with 3 burn spells in hand.. I refuse to admit defeat and waste time.. Finally he finds the helm and i scoop.
    G2 - Game two calls in oblivion rings, pyroblasts and surgicals. He counters a would-be nasty PoP, but I establish an aggressive board and run him over. He gets a counterbalance out early but I answer with a swift O-ring which he has no CMC3 cards for. I begin to love O-ring from this point.
    G3 - Quick creatures beat him down and lavamancer helps even when he plays his singleton Moat. I shoot him for 2x2 and have no cards in GY, but top deck O-ring to take out Moat. Guys around the table giggles as a 0,75$ card trumphs a
    400$ card. I continue attacking and he finds nothing but a few StPs that only delay his pending doom. At this point only Terminus could save him.
    2-1

    Round 4 - Reanimator
    G1 - This was fun. I go land go, he goes land, I go land + Thalia (he grumbles). He plays land go, I play Qasali and Thalia attacks for 3. EOT he Entombs with Thalia penalty and finds Griselbrand. Next turn he takes 7 by reanimating it (actually a sweet feeling for a Zoo player!) and says go. I have triple chain and a bolt in hand. My plan is turn burn Grisel for 3 with chain, then attack with power 3 Thalia (i knew he would block since he was on 6 life) and then before damage bolt it too to let Thalia finish the demon off without him gaining life. Good plan but i forget the Thalia penalty for a slit second and can't cast the bolt... stupid. Anyway, he blocks, thalia dies, I can cast the chain to kill it post combat. He responds by drawing 7, practically annulling the life gain from lifelink but finds nothing. Yay! He is back at 6 without creature and I pass. He exhumes an Elesh Norn which he got in the GY earlier. My Thalia joins the battle again and dies immediately, naturally. My turn I Chain+Bolt him, he has nothing.
    G2 - SB surgical, pyroblast, vortex and O-ring - takes out Qasali, Chains and PoP. I keep hand with at least GG, bolt, taiga, pyro, surgical, Thalia i think. He Duresses me for surgical. I top deck a new one (y) - Taiga, GG, attack, go. His next turn he goes land, Careful study, go. I draw no lands still and keep beating with GG. He keeps getting lands from it. He then tries to get Griselbrand up from the yard, I play the new surgical on it, he Forces it but having my single red mana open i Pyroblast the FoW. He continues drawing lands and I beat him with GG, later back up by Thalia I think.
    3-1

    Round 5 - UWr delver/geist
    G1 - I am paired of with an old buddy of mine which he complained about since our testing last week proved Zoo to be a problem for Geist and almost all his threats. Still it was a fun round with no sense of gentlemanship at all :D, you snooze, you lose! The game starts with me going for basics only and trying to beat him to the ground, but he removes my threats and beats me down with Delver. Batterskull and Jitte gets online and drawing no Qasalis his life count skyrockets to fast for me to stop it. I stay alive a few more turns by blocking with 3/3 EO that regenerates to help me the next turn but it is not enough.
    G2 - SB calls in pyroblasts for Geist countering, O-rings and Vortex. I still go basics only and he ends up with 3 wastelands on board. I attack with early Qasalis and Nacatls and kill him off quickly. Oh, and he mulliganed to 6 or 5 also.
    G3 - Almost same as last game, I mulligan though and keeps him off threats. At some point neither of us have creatures on board (he has Jitte), he is on 9, and i sit with chain, PoP, O-Ring and top decks Vortex. It goes down and he begins getting closer to 0, he plays delver which takes a Bolt to the knee. I draw and play a fresh Lavamancer and helps the vortex getting there. I never got to play PoP but it would have hurt tremendously on his part.
    4-1

    Round 6 - Omniscience,monoblue combo
    G1 - my opponents score was 5-0 and didnt wish to ID as prize shares go up if you go 6-0. We play it out. He begins the game with a Leyline of Sanctity in play (his singleton!!) and then i just sat there with 3 useless burn spells. For a couple of turns he cantrips and I try to beat him down with an EO. Doenst work. Show and Tell gets out, he Omniscience and finishes me off.
    G2 - SB: O-ring, pyroblasts. I get out Nacatl and begin beats. Later I play EO, then a new Nacatl (which he Forces) and begins attacking for 4. He quickly gets out show and tell, though. Luckily I have my O-ring to take out his crazy enchantment (infinite somthing?). He loses to beats and not finding any outs.
    G3 - Leyline again! This time i only had 1 chain in hand along with some creatures and O-ring. I draw a second O-ring later and it helps for SnT as i recall. I had mana out for the second one and win by beats. It didnt help him either that he kept a non-land hand with leyline and went draw-go for 3-4 turns without any lands.
    5-1

    I went 2. place which is a big deal since there has been no Zoo in the meta for a long time and i havent been playing for some months too. Great and kind opponents and exciting matches, so thanks for that.
    MPV was O-ring and EO. EO seemed just like another pair of Nacatls and I didnt have any issues with them. Sometimes they didnt grew, but mostly they got to 3/3 with counters to regenerate. O-ring was just plain nuts and helped me in almost all matches. 3 Thalia seems just fine and PoP was also a good treat in most cases. I did have a few hands with 2-3 Grims which was annoying as the yard often isn't that big. Some might notice the not-so-great combination of Thalia, GG and Path, however I decided to for it, since Thalia is there for Show and Tell or Combo in their early turns and neither GG nor Path was an issue in this case!

    My considerations for the future is:
    Removing Jitte from board, didnt seem relevant.
    4th O-ring SB?
    Maybe cutting 1 Grim?
    4th Qasali MD?
    Try out Ghor-Clan? Talked about with a dude and he was impressed. Haven't got the card though, but uncounterable extra beats with trample is nice for Goyf wars etc. (Didnt meet a single green card today though..)

    That was all, I hope you like long reading.
    Thanks
    Last edited by Neffy; 08-07-2013 at 07:24 AM.

  16. #96
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    blindspotxxx's Avatar
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Quote Originally Posted by Neffy View Post
    A brief report (based on memory) on last nights game w. 24 players.

    My love for Zoo is never ending and since it has been quite some time I last played it (do to Team America and Jund testing) I finally got convinced to try it out again - mostly motivated by the arrival of Experiment One (and Thalia for that matter).

    My list was

    MD:
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Wild Nacatl
    4 Goblin Guide
    4 Experiment One
    3 Grim Lavamancer
    3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    3 Qasali Pridemage

    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Path to Exile
    2 Price of Progress

    2 Sylvan Library

    3 Taiga
    2 Plateau
    1 Savannah
    1 Mountain
    1 Plains
    1 Forest
    4 Wooded Foothills
    4 Arid Mesa
    2 Windswept Heath

    SB:
    3 Oblivion Ring
    4 Leyline of Sanctity
    3 Pyroblast
    3 Surgical Extraction
    1 Sulfuric Vortex
    1 Umezawa's Jitte

    Round 1 - Show n Tell
    G1 i hold a 7 hand with Thalia, GG, Sylvan, fetch and some other stuff. I had an idea of what opponent was playing but have had a few months break so wasn't sure. I win die roll and go fetch, land, GG, attack. Trigger reveals a SnT and my fears were confirmed. He goes land-go. I go land, and know that my Thalia is the key atm - and my only hope. But fearing FoW I try to trick him to counter my Sylvan instead. He doesn't. (At this point I totally blew out the existence of two-mana lands like City of Traitors (....) so I thought I had one more turn. EOT Echoing truth on Thalia. He plays that land, SnT, Emrakul, scoop.
    G2. I SB in O-rings, pyroblast and I think surgicals. Remove Paths and some more. Same story, I beat him a little and he goes off with SnT before I get any help from SB cards. He kills by Omniscience and leaving Emrakul in Library, uses Release the Ants to shoot me to death. (I've never heard of that card, but if I might have boarded in Leylines just in case)
    0-1

    Round 2 - UR delver
    G1 His creatures die to easilty to my thousand removals and I walk him over. Didnt help him either that he mulled to 5.
    G2. SB for Pyroblasts. I can use almost anything but takes out Qasali i think. Same thing, i fetch basics only with PoP in hand (he had one in hand too!) and beats him down until it can burn him for the rest. I see the potential of EO in this game as it's a 3/3 alongside a Nacatl. He needs to burn one and is about to burn the EO but the two counters meant he couldnt and he had to go for the Nacatl. The EO later grew and helped killing him off.
    1-1

    Round 3 - RIP/helm combo
    G1 - I attack and burn him to 5 life, but he Terminus off my creatures and with triple top and counterbalance he keeps my from playing anything. A shame with 3 burn spells in hand.. I refuse to admit defeat and waste time.. Finally he finds the helm and i scoop.
    G2 - Game two calls in oblivion rings, pyroblasts and surgicals. He counters a would-be nasty PoP, but I establish an aggressive board and run him over. He gets a counterbalance out early but I answer with a swift O-ring which he has no CMC3 cards for. I begin to love O-ring from this point.
    G3 - Quick creatures beat him down and lavamancer helps even when he plays his singleton Moat. I shoot him for 2x2 and have no cards in GY, but top deck O-ring to take out Moat. Guys around the table giggles as a 0,75$ card trumphs a
    400$ card. I continue attacking and he finds nothing but a few StPs that only delay his pending doom. At this point only Terminus could save him.
    2-1

    Round 4 - Reanimator
    G1 - This was fun. I go land go, he goes land, I go land + Thalia (he grumbles). He plays land go, I play Qasali and Thalia attacks for 3. EOT he Entombs with Thalia penalty and finds Griselbrand. Next turn he takes 7 by reanimating it (actually a sweet feeling for a Zoo player!) and says go. I have triple chain and a bolt in hand. My plan is turn burn Grisel for 3 with chain, then attack with power 3 Thalia (i knew he would block since he was on 6 life) and then before damage bolt it too to let Thalia finish the demon off without him gaining life. Good plan but i forget the Thalia penalty for a slit second and can't cast the bolt... stupid. Anyway, he blocks, thalia dies, I can cast the chain to kill it post combat. He responds by drawing 7, practically annulling the life gain from lifelink but finds nothing. Yay! He is back at 6 without creature and I pass. He exhumes an Elesh Norn which he got in the GY earlier. My Thalia joins the battle again and dies immediately, naturally. My turn I Chain+Bolt him, he has nothing.
    G2 - SB surgical, pyroblast, vortex and O-ring - takes out Qasali, Chains and PoP. I keep hand with at least GG, bolt, taiga, pyro, surgical, Thalia i think. He Duresses me for surgical. I top deck a new one (y) - Taiga, GG, attack, go. His next turn he goes land, Careful study, go. I draw no lands still and keep beating with GG. He keeps getting lands from it. He then tries to get Griselbrand up from the yard, I play the new surgical on it, he Forces it but having my single red mana open i Pyroblast the FoW. He continues drawing lands and I beat him with GG, later back up by Thalia I think.
    3-1

    Round 5 - UWr delver/geist
    G1 - I am paired of with an old buddy of mine which he complained about since our testing last week proved Zoo to be a problem for Geist and almost all his threats. Still it was a fun round with no sense of gentlemanship at all :D, you snooze, you lose! The game starts with me going for basics only and trying to beat him to the ground, but he removes my threats and beats me down with Delver. Batterskull and Jitte gets online and drawing no Qasalis his life count skyrockets to fast for me to stop it. I stay alive a few more turns by blocking with 3/3 EO that regenerates to help me the next turn but it is not enough.
    G2 - SB calls in pyroblasts for Geist countering, O-rings and Vortex. I still go basics only and he ends up with 3 wastelands on board. I attack with early Qasalis and Nacatls and kill him off quickly. Oh, and he mulliganed to 6 or 5 also.
    G3 - Almost same as last game, I mulligan though and keeps him off threats. At some point neither of us have creatures on board (he has Jitte), he is on 9, and i sit with chain, PoP, O-Ring and top decks Vortex. It goes down and he begins getting closer to 0, he plays delver which takes a Bolt to the knee. I draw and play a fresh Lavamancer and helps the vortex getting there. I never got to play PoP but it would have hurt tremendously on his part.
    4-1

    Round 6 - Omniscience,monoblue combo
    G1 - my opponents score was 5-0 and didnt wish to ID as prize shares go up if you go 6-0. We play it out. He begins the game with a Leyline of Sanctity in play (his singleton!!) and then i just sat there with 3 useless burn spells. For a couple of turns he cantrips and I try to beat him down with an EO. Doenst work. Show and Tell gets out, he Omniscience and finishes me off.
    G2 - SB: O-ring, pyroblasts. I get out Nacatl and begin beats. Later I play EO, then a new Nacatl (which he Forces) and begins attacking for 4. He quickly gets out show and tell, though. Luckily I have my O-ring to take out his crazy enchantment (infinite somthing?). He loses to beats and not finding any outs.
    G3 - Leyline again! This time i only had 1 chain in hand along with some creatures and O-ring. I draw a second O-ring later and it helps for SnT as i recall. I had mana out for the second one and win by beats. It didnt help him either that he kept a non-land hand with leyline and went draw-go for 3-4 turns without any lands.
    5-1

    I went 2. place which is a big deal since there has been no Zoo in the meta for a long time and i havent been playing for some months too. Great and kind opponents and exciting matches, so thanks for that.
    MPV was O-ring and EO. EO seemed just like another pair of Nacatls and I didnt have any issues with them. Sometimes they didnt grew, but mostly they got to 3/3 with counters to regenerate. O-ring was just plain nuts and helped me in almost all matches. 3 Thalia seems just fine and PoP was also a good treat in most cases. I did have a few hands with 2-3 Grims which was annoying as the yard often isn't that big. Some might notice the not-so-great combination of Thalia, GG and Path, however I decided to for it, since Thalia is there for Show and Tell or Combo in their early turns and neither GG nor Path was an issue in this case!

    My considerations for the future is:
    Removing Jitte from board, didnt seem relevant.
    4th O-ring SB?
    Maybe cutting 1 Grim?
    4th Qasali MD?
    Try out Ghor-Clan? Talked about with a dude and he was impressed. Haven't got the card though, but uncounterable extra beats with trample is nice for Goyf wars etc. (Didnt meet a single green card today though..)

    That was all, I hope you like long reading.
    Thanks
    Great! I am a great advocate of this deck :) I hope you can put zoo back on the map

  17. #97
    Colonizer of Dreams

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    203

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Since catmint told me to in the other thread, posting this up here:

    I played Naya Blitz in the last Standard PTQ season and therefor experienced, how broken of a card Burning-Tree Emissary is. I knew that he already had a home in a modern deck and since a lot of people around me are actually playing Legacy, I thought to myself, why don't you try this guy out. So when my friends met up to playtest Legacy, I joined them and tried it out. After a couple of tests, I ended up with a list, I was ready to bring to a local six round tournament. This are the 75 cards I registered:

    4 Burning-Tree Emissary
    4 Experiment One
    4 Flinthoof Boar
    4 Goblin Guide
    4 Kird Ape
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Vexing Devil
    4 Wild Nacatl

    4 Chain Lightning
    2 Fireblast
    4 Lightning Bolt

    3 Arid Mesa
    1 Forest
    1 Mountain
    2 Plateau
    1 Savannah
    4 Taiga
    2 Windswept Heath
    4 Wooded Foothills

    Sideboard:
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Path to Exile
    2 Smash to Smithereens
    3 Oblivion Ring

    Wild Nacatl and Experiment One are simply 3/3 creatures for one mana. You have to have them in your deck to constantly get explosive starts. Goblin Guide and Tarmogoyf are pretty self-explanatory in this kinda strategy. Burning-Tree Emissary allows to get three to four creatures on the board turn two, which is pretty insane, given the current metagame. Flinthoof Boar is actually pretty decent. People are not expecting this creature and when they saw them in earlier games, they always have to fear the three power haste guy, which could come along. He is a cc2 creature, which is great for Burning-Tree Emissary or just laying him out with two lands in play, because getting to three lands does not always work. Vexing Devil is pretty decent in this strategy. Since it comes into play, before the opponent gets to decide wether or not he takes four damage, the Devil evolves Experiment One, which can make the Experiment a 4/4. Also, against decks with white creature removal, you're not always getting a creature into the graveyard for your Tarmogoyf. Vexing Devil helps there out too. And if for some reason, the opponent decides, not to take four damage, you have a pretty good beater for just a single red mana. Kird Ape is kinda the best of the rest. Due to him being a 2/3, he helps out making Experiment One a 3/3 on turn two. I started out with two of them in my first draw of the deck and went up to four.

    So why would you play this pile of crap? Because it is currently well positioned within the european metagame. There are not many people playing storm combo or UW Miracle. The metagame mostly consists of fair creature decks like Jund, Canadian Threshold, Deathblade, Elves or Death'n Taxes. Against these decks, you are well positioned with a creature heavy aggressive strategy. Their creatures are small and die to Lightning Bolt/Chain Lightning with the exception of Tarmogyf. Because everything dies to three damage, our creatures are at least as large as any other creature in the current metagame, except for Tarmogoyf. With this aggressive strategy, we force our opponents to either jump block, do bad trades or trade one fore one. But we don't mind trading one for one, because we are overloading the board with creatures anyway. The ten burn spells are the ten best ones for this archetype. Yes, I tried Price of Progress. It was an additional burn spell in the deck, when I tested it. I felt, like I needed more creatures. Therefor it got cut. It sadly can't compete with Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning or Fireblast, because it can't target creatures. It makes us less flexible. And that kinda sucks.

    As I already stated, I took this to a tournament and this is the reason, why I started this thread. I had so much fun, that I actually started working on the list. 34 people attended and I ended up in seventh place with a 4-2 record, due to good breakers. I beat Deathblade, Goblins, Elves and TES. I lost to Canadian Threshold and UW Miracles. Video Features of the tournament:

    Round 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLXXuvJVm_k
    Round 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HX0GI7bGYU

    So after some further testing, we came to some conclusions. First of all Deathrite Shaman has to be killed immediatly. Always. You never want them to be able to ramp up. The lifegain are just the icing on the cake for the opponent in the matchup, but what's really problematic is the ability to ramp. Secondly, in the european scene Canadian Threshold pilots are using Stifle to try and manascrew their opponents. Getting a fetchland stifled is pretty bad for us, because we are mostly playing with two to three lands in play (so we can get more creatures on the board). In comparison to Wasteland, they don't even lose any tempo, because they get to keept their land around/don't need to waste a landdrop to try and screw us. Therefor, we thought about cutting fetchlands. But even with less fetchlands, we still feed opposing Deathrite Shaman's, if we don't have the removal for it. So we developed a manabase without fetchlands:

    4 Plateau
    3 Sacred Foundry
    3 Savannah
    4 Stomping Ground
    4 Taiga

    The old manabase (fetchlands count for all three colours) had 14 green, 16 red and 12 white sources. The new one has 11 green, 15 red and 10 white sources. This is a bit worse in comparison to before, but we feel like the upside is good enough to try it out. The additional damage mostly doesn't matter, because we should be the aggressor in most of our matchups. Additionaly, Red Elemental Blasts suck in the board. I added a third Path to Exile for the tempo matchups, to get rid of Tarmogoyf and two Sulfuric Vortex as a lategame card against decks, that can stall us out or remove our board (like UW Miracle, Enchantress or UB Tezzeret). This leaves me with one free slot for a 'bullet'. Currently I would play Electrickery in this slot. It is great against Lingering Souls, Elves and Death'n Taxes. As of now, this is my current list:

    4 Burning-Tree Emissary
    4 Experiment One
    4 Flinthoof Boar
    4 Goblin Guide
    4 Kird Ape
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Vexing Devil
    4 Wild Nacatl

    4 Chain Lightning
    2 Fireblast
    4 Lightning Bolt

    4 Plateau
    3 Sacred Foundry
    3 Savannah
    4 Stomping Ground
    4 Taiga

    Sideboard:
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    1 Electrickery
    3 Path to Exile
    2 Smash to Smithereens
    3 Oblivion Ring
    2 Sulfuric Vortex

    I can only recommend you to try this out and not to underestimate the amount of damage the deck can deal in the shortest amount of time. I had numerous turn three kills with it.

    (Sorry for my bad english.)

  18. #98
    Taobotmox

    Join Date

    Sep 2005
    Location

    Germany
    Posts

    781

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Good post and agreed on Emissary. I like the list and the SB. On what could be improved I think Flinthoof Boar is worse than Green Sun's Zenith. (also I would have posted in N&D but you decided to move here just fyi).
    On one Mana GSZ does something while Boar doesn't. It does not exactly what you want but it isn't horrible either and can turn unkeepable hands into keepable ones. On two mana both are 3/3 for 3. On three mana I think the choice of Goyf, Pridemage, Teeg is better than a 3/3 haste. It would require to cut three cards for Teeg, Pridemage and Arbor but I think it is worth it. Extra Goyfs can't hurt and Pridemage and Teeg do things that the rest of the deck lacks.

  19. #99
    Colonizer of Dreams

    Join Date

    Aug 2009
    Posts

    203

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Well I first posted it in N&D and there they told me to post it in here. I'm confused! I think the haste aspect of Flinthoof Boar is pretty important. Flinthoof Boar gives the deck some extra speed, starting turn three. Whenever I can I try to play my haste guys as the last creatures off my hand. People are always counting up damage towards them being dead and haste guys really fuck those calculations up. But to be honest, Green Sun's Zenith has not crossed my mind so far. I really don't like white creatures in this attempt of the deck, because Burning-Tree Emissary can't cast them. This could cause some trouble, but along with Green Sun's Zenith, Teeg/Pridemage could be nice 1-off additions for the sideboard. I need to think about your suggestion and try it out to make up my mind, though. You can't theorycraft everything.

  20. #100
    Taobotmox

    Join Date

    Sep 2005
    Location

    Germany
    Posts

    781

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Zoo

    Agree with what you said, so in theory we agree. I find it close and in the end it can only be told by testing.

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