Page 238 of 251 FirstFirst ... 138188228234235236237238239240241242248 ... LastLast
Results 4,741 to 4,760 of 5012

Thread: [Primer/Deck] Pox

  1. #4741
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    2,380

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour_Asses View Post
    That list looks pretty cool but it seems to have a ton of things that make you pay life.
    But it doesn't have Pox or Smallpox, and it does have more creature removal and a lifelink body, so maybe that balances out.

    Also look at the meta. How many of those decks pressure life total? A good chunk play the game plan of doing 0 damage and then Go For the Throat all at once (Storm, Miracles, Dark Depths, etc..).

  2. #4742
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    New Gloucester, Maine, USA
    Posts

    4,804

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour_Asses View Post
    Or a Dark Ritual. That list looks pretty cool but it seems to have a ton of things that make you pay life.
    Nine cards doesn't seem like a 'ton' to me. It's basically Bitterblossom, Noxious Revival, Murderous Rider, and Castle Locthwain. Of those the only one that could genuinely cause a game loss is Bitterblossom, which is so good against the blue decks that I can't see ever losing if you resolve a Bitterblossom and continue to pressure their hand. It's bad against Burn decks, but Pox has always been soft to burn. It might be soft to dredge, but with 4x maindeck Ashiok I think the matchup is winnable g1 if Dark Ritual is in the mix, post board gets a lot better. The other aggressive deck is UR Delver, but that deck isn't as problematic as Burn because the discard and removal go a lot further.

    This is just a good pile of black cards, honestly. It has a Rock-type feel to it with likely 50% or better matchups against most of the field with the sideboard slanting it in your favor g2-3.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  3. #4743

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    The land mix looks most interesting to me. with 2 maze of ith and no urborgs, only 20 mana producing lands, 4 of which are wastelands. Clearly it worked for the pilot but it doesn't seem like it would on paper. I guess that was the trade off for dark rits? Lots of 3 mana and a lone 4 mana spell.

    But i guess if you aren't saccing your own to pox/smallpox then its less necessary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  4. #4744
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    New Gloucester, Maine, USA
    Posts

    4,804

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by ronco View Post
    The land mix looks most interesting to me. with 2 maze of ith and no urborgs, only 20 mana producing lands, 4 of which are wastelands. Clearly it worked for the pilot but it doesn't seem like it would on paper. I guess that was the trade off for dark rits? Lots of 3 mana and a lone 4 mana spell.

    But i guess if you aren't saccing your own to pox/smallpox then its less necessary.
    I totally missed no Urborgs, that seems pretty weird to me. I agree that without Pox effects it is a little more stable, but with only 22 lands it seems pretty thin, even with Dark Rituals. I would put DR's at about 1/2 a land as far as mana calculation, so he basically has '24' lands/mana sources. He was also not playing Factories, which makes sense if he's not playing hard into the Pox strategy, but still looks weird.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  5. #4745

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Nine cards doesn't seem like a 'ton' to me. It's basically Bitterblossom, Noxious Revival, Murderous Rider, and Castle Locthwain. Of those the only one that could genuinely cause a game loss is Bitterblossom, which is so good against the blue decks that I can't see ever losing if you resolve a Bitterblossom and continue to pressure their hand. It's bad against Burn decks, but Pox has always been soft to burn. It might be soft to dredge, but with 4x maindeck Ashiok I think the matchup is winnable g1 if Dark Ritual is in the mix, post board gets a lot better. The other aggressive deck is UR Delver, but that deck isn't as problematic as Burn because the discard and removal go a lot further.

    This is just a good pile of black cards, honestly. It has a Rock-type feel to it with likely 50% or better matchups against most of the field with the sideboard slanting it in your favor g2-3.
    My count is 13, which is over 20% of the deck.

    It does look pretty solid though, I might have to give it a shot.

  6. #4746
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    New Gloucester, Maine, USA
    Posts

    4,804

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour_Asses View Post
    My count is 13, which is over 20% of the deck.

    It does look pretty solid though, I might have to give it a shot.
    Oh, I wasn't counting fetchlands.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  7. #4747
    Darth Poxious

    Join Date

    Mar 2010
    Location

    Chicago, IL
    Posts

    641

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    So even here, the conclusion is that pox and by extension, Smallpox is so bad, they must be omitted from the deck... As if striking all resources at once is just 'bad design'. "If you want to win, play another deck!!" I suppose that is the point... The discord guys have decided to calling it the monoblack deck and simply dropping pox to be more "inclusive". Just my opinion: If you're not hitting all resources at once with a single spell, you are NOT a pox (resource denial) deck.

    Flame suit equipped*! I suppose someone with more wisdom than myself should reboot a pox deck thread. Unless someone can point me to another good deck that's budget friendly and goes after land resources.

    I've already left the discord server because there's no place for me there. I suppose exile is the traditionalist's path. But before I go, perhaps this blueprint could help:
    It was my personal update to a latest version.

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/2218439#paper

    Was figuring out what sideboard to swap for Dystopia as a one-of. Some said Last Hope.
    One Liliana to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all into the Sinkhole Wasteland!

  8. #4748
    bruizar
    Guest

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by OmniStrata View Post
    So even here, the conclusion is that pox and by extension, Smallpox is so bad, they must be omitted from the deck... As if striking all resources at once is just 'bad design'. "If you want to win, play another deck!!" I suppose that is the point... The discord guys have decided to calling it the monoblack deck and simply dropping pox to be more "inclusive". Just my opinion: If you're not hitting all resources at once with a single spell, you are NOT a pox (resource denial) deck.

    Flame suit equipped*! I suppose someone with more wisdom than myself should reboot a pox deck thread. Unless someone can point me to another good deck that's budget friendly and goes after land resources.

    I've already left the discord server because there's no place for me there. I suppose exile is the traditionalist's path. But before I go, perhaps this blueprint could help:
    It was my personal update to a latest version.

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/2218439#paper

    Was figuring out what sideboard to swap for Dystopia as a one-of. Some said Last Hope.
    The problem with small pox is that, at best it offers parity on turn 2.
    -1 land, -1 card in hand, -1 creature, -1 or 2 mana for the creature
    vs
    -1 land, -1 card in hand, -1 smallpox, -2 mana for the small pox

    I tried to improve that draw back with Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger and Lightning Skelemental, Unearth, old lists used to do that with cards as diverse as Flagstones of Trokair, Bloodghast, Dakmor Salvage, Nether Spirit, etc. but those cards are bad in the first place (read: low impact, nothing against playing bad cards in the right role+meta). I am considering Squee, Goblin Nabob as an engine card with 4 Smallpox, Liliana of the Veil's and maybe Collective Brutality. This way you can turn the symmetry in your favor. I still like Small Pox a lot.

    Conceptually, the Escape mechanic offers a lot of room for innovation with Small Pox.

    The escape options in mono black:
    Fruit of Tizerus
    Cling to Dust
    Mogis's Favor
    Pharika's Spawn
    Underworld Charger
    Woe Strider

    White splash:
    Elspeth, Sun's Nemesis
    Sentinel's Eyes


    Red splash:
    Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
    Underworld Breach
    Escape Velocity
    Phoenix of Ash
    Satyr's Cunning
    Underworld Rage-Hound


    Of these, I like these the most:

    * Elspeth (In a build together with Flagstones of Trokair you can smallpox Flagstones and Elspeth, making small pox assymetrical, although u need to build to 6 mana.)
    * Kroxa as per the build I posted
    * Mogis's Favor (More removal that doesn't cost you a draw)
    * Satyr's Cunning (Cheap!)
    * Pharika's Spawn (Requires a lot of mana but gives you extra edicts)
    * Maybe Woe Strider but 5 mana is again a lot

    Most of these options are too expensive to compete with Nether Spirit. I like Kroxa the best, but wouldn't argue with someone that would try a white splash either. Breach could be part of a combo finish but i'll let someone else be so adventurous to try that.

  9. #4749
    A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry.
    PirateKing's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2011
    Location

    BEST JERSEY
    Posts

    1,446

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I still run Smallpox and like it a lot, but typically it's not the turn 2 play you ever want to make.
    Against their first creature I'd rather be Innocent Blood or going after them with Thoughtseize. Then Hymn or Sinkhole.

    Smallpox really does better in the turn 3 and beyond, once you know you're not hobbling your own mana (going from 3 to 2 is safe with no lands in hand, 2 to 1 without land in hand is not). Either as a Force fodder for a followup Liliana or after landing Liliana, it's the card that helps you shift the momentum back to you only after your opponent thinks they are established in the board state.

    It's not an easy card to play, so the beginners are bound to misplay. It's not Delver, just because the deck is called Pox it doesn't mean it's about jamming Smallpox on the first opportunity.
    Last edited by PirateKing; 01-28-2020 at 04:03 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  10. #4750
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    New Gloucester, Maine, USA
    Posts

    4,804

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    I still run Smallpox and like it a lot, but typically it's not the turn 2 play you ever want to make.
    Against their first creature I'd rather be Innocent Blood or going after them with Thoughtseize. Then Hymn or Sinkhole.

    Smallpox really does better in the turn 3 and beyond, once you know you're not hobbling your own mana (going from 3 to 2 is safe with no lands in hand, 2 to 1 without and in hand is not). Either as a Force fodder for a followup Liliana or after landing Liliana, it's the card that helps you shift the momentum back to you only after your opponent thinks they are established in the board state.

    It's not an easy card to play, so the beginners are bound to misplay. It;s not Delver, just because the deck is called Pox it doesn't mean it;s about jamming Smallpox on the first opportunity.
    I just want to say that there is a lot of wisdom in this post. When I was playing Pox back when I was getting back into Legacy Smallpox was always better in the mid-game. Decks fighting the discard/removal/PW's end up using a lot of resources to keep up. This sets them up for a devastating Smallpox. Smallpox t2 can be correct if you have lands in hand to rebuild, but otherwise timing is everything.

    I would also argue that this was one result. Just because one deck does well without Smallpox doesn't mean it's incorrect to play them; it means someone found a way to metagame a mono-black control deck to success without Smallpox. Looking at the current metgame at large, Wasteland is at a low level right now. It's hard to double team opponent's mana without Wasteland to augment Smallpox. So it only follows that if Wasteland isn't particularly great right now then Smallpox's land denial probably isn't great either. Cheaper removal that allows you to develop your mana, and subsequently play fewer than the 24-27 lands that Pox usually needs to run, seemed like a good decision.

    Last thought: Bitterblossom, Dreadhorde Invasion, and Liliana the Last Hope are all backbreaking threats against Miracles/4C/Grixis control decks. Take that little nugget of information and use it for when you're putting together an updated Pox list.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  11. #4751
    bruizar
    Guest

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    would also argue that this was one result. Just because one deck does well without Smallpox doesn't mean it's incorrect to play them; it means someone found a way to metagame a mono-black control deck to success without Smallpox.
    This!

  12. #4752
    Darth Poxious

    Join Date

    Mar 2010
    Location

    Chicago, IL
    Posts

    641

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    I just want to say that there is a lot of wisdom in this post. When I was playing Pox back when I was getting back into Legacy Smallpox was always better in the mid-game. Decks fighting the discard/removal/PW's end up using a lot of resources to keep up. This sets them up for a devastating Smallpox. Smallpox t2 can be correct if you have lands in hand to rebuild, but otherwise timing is everything.

    I would also argue that this was one result. Just because one deck does well without Smallpox doesn't mean it's incorrect to play them; it means someone found a way to metagame a mono-black control deck to success without Smallpox. Looking at the current metgame at large, Wasteland is at a low level right now. It's hard to double team opponent's mana without Wasteland to augment Smallpox. So it only follows that if Wasteland isn't particularly great right now then Smallpox's land denial probably isn't great either. Cheaper removal that allows you to develop your mana, and subsequently play fewer than the 24-27 lands that Pox usually needs to run, seemed like a good decision.

    Last thought: Bitterblossom, Dreadhorde Invasion, and Liliana the Last Hope are all backbreaking threats against Miracles/4C/Grixis control decks. Take that little nugget of information and use it for when you're putting together an updated Pox list.
    Many thanks people! Good to know there's still love for the fringe! If winning was all I truly cared about, I'd just live in the DtB section but there's no LD up there in the must win decks outside RUG Delver.
    One Liliana to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all into the Sinkhole Wasteland!

  13. #4753

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I'd be happy to pilot this later this week if anyone wants a write up on it. I'm not the OP on the deck but can at least give it some feedback vs live opponents. I had plans on going back to a more aggro, discard heavy build but wouldn't mind testing out this deck. Seems light on wincons/pressure but that's kind of pox's jam anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  14. #4754
    bruizar
    Guest

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by ronco View Post
    I'd be happy to pilot this later this week if anyone wants a write up on it. I'm not the OP on the deck but can at least give it some feedback vs live opponents. I had plans on going back to a more aggro, discard heavy build but wouldn't mind testing out this deck. Seems light on wincons/pressure but that's kind of pox's jam anyway.
    I would be very curious to learn from your experience

  15. #4755

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    I would be very curious to learn from your experience
    okie dokie. I promise to play it sub optimally and report back friday or sometime over the weekend!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  16. #4756
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    New Gloucester, Maine, USA
    Posts

    4,804

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by ronco View Post
    I'd be happy to pilot this later this week if anyone wants a write up on it. I'm not the OP on the deck but can at least give it some feedback vs live opponents. I had plans on going back to a more aggro, discard heavy build but wouldn't mind testing out this deck. Seems light on wincons/pressure but that's kind of pox's jam anyway.
    I'm always up for Pox reports! My biggest barrier to playing Pox recently is that I traded away my Lilliana of the Veils. I've debated doing something without them, but man, it's one of the real focal points of playing Pox. I could play something else in those slots (ie Sinkhole, etc.) but it just feels sub-optimal. So I stick to other decks for now.

    Unless someone has a spicy list without LotV...
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  17. #4757

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    I'm always up for Pox reports! My biggest barrier to playing Pox recently is that I traded away my Lilliana of the Veils. I've debated doing something without them, but man, it's one of the real focal points of playing Pox. I could play something else in those slots (ie Sinkhole, etc.) but it just feels sub-optimal. So I stick to other decks for now.

    Unless someone has a spicy list without LotV...
    I've seen 2 cards recently that act as budget replacements, not sure I'd call them spicy although I want the latter to work real bad:
    Bottomless Pit and Torment of Scarabs

    That said, Lilis seem to be at or near all time (recently) lows. Not sure if they keep going down or not but is as good a time as any to pick them up if you have good trade fodder.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  18. #4758

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    So of the list, the only card I may not be able to procure in time is the Noxious Revival. I'm wondering if this is double duty for a Murderous rider plus emergency grave hate? If I can't get it I'll probably put in an extirpate or coffin purge to cover most of the functionality. I'm also guessing fetches are to re-shuffle a rider back in from the bottom, as there is no mana fixing or blood ghasts to protect. I feel like the Thoughtseize and IoK should be flipped in numbers but I'm going to trust the pilot on this one at least for the first go.

    Lastly, and this is more of a general question - is there an advantage to ratchet bomb over EE? They both wipe tokens and eggs for 2 mana, EE gets 1 cmc for 3 mana the turn you drop it, but in this deck that's as high as it goes. I guess that answers my own question. Only thing EE can do better is get around a chalice on 2, anything else I am overlooking?

    22 LANDS
    1 Blast Zone
    1 Bojuka Bog
    2 Castle Locthwain
    2 Maze of Ith
    9 Swamp
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wasteland

    3 CREATURES
    3 Murderous Rider

    22 INSTANTS and SORC.
    4 Dark Ritual
    2 Fatal Push
    3 Hymn to Tourach
    1 Innocent Blood
    2 Inquisition of Kozilek
    4 Liliana's Triumph
    1 Mastermind's Acquisition
    1 Noxious Revival
    4 Thoughtseize

    13 OTHER SPELLS
    4 Ashiok, Dream Render
    3 Bitterblossom
    1 Dreadhorde Invasion
    3 Liliana of the Veil
    2 Liliana, the Last Hope

    SIDEBOARD
    2 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Extirpate
    4 Leyline of the Void
    1 Null Rod
    2 Pithing Needle
    2 Plague Engineer
    2 Ratchet Bomb
    1 Surgical Extraction
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  19. #4759
    bruizar
    Guest

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by ronco View Post
    So of the list, the only card I may not be able to procure in time is the Noxious Revival. I'm wondering if this is double duty for a Murderous rider plus emergency grave hate? If I can't get it I'll probably put in an extirpate or coffin purge to cover most of the functionality. I'm also guessing fetches are to re-shuffle a rider back in from the bottom, as there is no mana fixing or blood ghasts to protect. I feel like the Thoughtseize and IoK should be flipped in numbers but I'm going to trust the pilot on this one at least for the first go.

    Lastly, and this is more of a general question - is there an advantage to ratchet bomb over EE? They both wipe tokens and eggs for 2 mana, EE gets 1 cmc for 3 mana the turn you drop it, but in this deck that's as high as it goes. I guess that answers my own question. Only thing EE can do better is get around a chalice on 2, anything else I am overlooking?

    22 LANDS
    1 Blast Zone
    1 Bojuka Bog
    2 Castle Locthwain
    2 Maze of Ith
    9 Swamp
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wasteland

    3 CREATURES
    3 Murderous Rider

    22 INSTANTS and SORC.
    4 Dark Ritual
    2 Fatal Push
    3 Hymn to Tourach
    1 Innocent Blood
    2 Inquisition of Kozilek
    4 Liliana's Triumph
    1 Mastermind's Acquisition
    1 Noxious Revival
    4 Thoughtseize

    13 OTHER SPELLS
    4 Ashiok, Dream Render
    3 Bitterblossom
    1 Dreadhorde Invasion
    3 Liliana of the Veil
    2 Liliana, the Last Hope

    SIDEBOARD
    2 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Extirpate
    4 Leyline of the Void
    1 Null Rod
    2 Pithing Needle
    2 Plague Engineer
    2 Ratchet Bomb
    1 Surgical Extraction
    Ratchet bomb can Get problematic enchantments off the board, like counterbalance or other random non 1CC stuff. Also gets the occassional pw i guess? Already have a lot of pw removal though

  20. #4760
    Darth Poxious

    Join Date

    Mar 2010
    Location

    Chicago, IL
    Posts

    641

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    If you're looking for a reset button, it'd behoove you to consider Nevinyrral's Disc. If 4 cmc is too high, there's also Plague Boiler which can't be needled as it's not activated. You just need to buy 3 turns. Ratchet Bomb is ok. I have used it to kill a Jace before but those were very lucky circumstances where the Jace pilot constantly Brainstormed but couldn't find an answer. I used to run 2 SB The Elderspell which turbo activated a Liliana, the Last Hope twice in the lifetime I used the card.

    Big sweepers are good for us but permanent 'blox' are usually more effective I've found: Night of Souls' Betrayal, Plague effects and Ensnaring Bridge make excellent speed bumps in your foe's plan to kill you. Even more so if you're Cursed Scrolling or Racking to a win.
    One Liliana to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all into the Sinkhole Wasteland!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 4 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 4 guests)