[Primer/Deck] Pox

[ntropy]

Totally agree Props to Matt Niewola! This event has only been going on for 2 years, and has grown each time. First event raised 1200 lbs of food, this weekends event raised 3200 lbs of food!

I got 9th with my GB pox, seems like without miracles the meta is great for Pox.

Rd1 lost 2-1 to UR delver. Could have won but I took a line of play that basically guaranteed the win if a drew a land in next 3 turns (26 land deck) never drew a land.

Rd2 won 2-0 vs Death and Taxes, usually a easy match-up. only times I lose to DnT is when the top deck creatures for 4-5 turns in a row after I stabilize the board.

Rd3 won 2-0 vs Turbo Depths, Collective Brutality is awesome! In game one we played a couple turns of disruption I IoK, him he thoughtseized me, I wasteland depths etc. we get to a point where he knows I have smallpox in hand, he has depths on the field and hexmage in hand. He cant play vampire hexmage bc smallpox answers it or the marit lage he tries to make. he top decks stage but I'm at 21 due to escalating collective brutality earlier in the game. I draw second brutality for turn and he makes marit lage on my end step. I take 20 go to 1 and he plays out the hexmage to protect the marit lage from my smallpox. I have 4 mana so it doesn't matter what I draw I'm just going to pitch it to brutality, I excalate brutality -2/-2 to hexmage and drain 2 life so that I have enough life to cast smallpox for the marit lage. Bloodghast and factory finish him off

Rd4 Draw 1-1-1 with Food Chain, kinda frustrating here, I had the win if I had one more turn, he spent the last turns of the game playing for a draw. Also frustrating bc we both won out and he ended up getting 8th on breakers and I got 9th.

Rd5 won 2-0 vs Shardless Bug, usually a grindy match-up but a lot of mulliganing by both of us turned these into non-games. He went to 6 game 1 on the play, I won on mulligan to 5 cards. Game two I was on 6 he was on 5.

Rd6 Burn, My opponent scooped me in because he had one less match point and no shot of making top 8. Collective Brutality makes this not a miserable as it used to be, I also added Faith of the Devoted to the sideboard for this match-up but haven't drawn it yet.

Hey, awesome. You tooks Matt's spot (9th) I wish I had seen your deck. The Depths player you faced is a friend of mine(Pernicious Dude on here), as is the Burn player who scooped you in round 6. Are you in green for Loam? or just Decay/Library? I have also looked at Faith of the Devoted. Without Loam/Barren Moor it seems anemic, but I could be wrong. I do discard a lot to Smallpox/Liliana. Keep me posted as you gain experience with it.

[ntropy]

Has anyone tried out Vampire hexmage as a removal spell vs planeswalkers? I know it is pretty ineffectual as a threat thanks to Smallpox/Deluge, but it's cheaper than To the Slaughter or Never /to/ Return.

[OmniStrata]

Has anyone tried out Vampire hexmage as a removal spell vs planeswalkers? I know it is pretty ineffectual as a threat thanks to Smallpox/Deluge, but it's cheaper than To the Slaughter or Never /to/ Return.

The best removal spell against planeswalkers is Pithing Needle. The 2nd best removal spell against them is Vampire Sexmage followed by Hero's Downfall. This takes into account mana cost followed by speed. There really is no better way to kill / deal with them besides punching them with Tombstalkers.

[streetMage]

...I got 9th with my GB pox, seems like without miracles the meta is great for Pox.

Got some inspiration for the Bloodghast/Cabal Therapy tech from matching an old match of yours against a burn player. Mind sharing your most recent decklist?

Also, thoughts on:
Fatal Push?
Buried Ruin/Engineered Explosives as a recurrable removal?

[Quitrex]

By and large, you would rather have ratchet bomb unless you can hit 3 counters on explosives. Also, that's mana Hungary enough that id just runnan ob, or an attrition next to a bloodghast or some such.

[OmniStrata]

Got some inspiration for the Bloodghast/Cabal Therapy tech from matching an old match of yours against a burn player. Mind sharing your most recent decklist?

Also, thoughts on:
Fatal Push?
Buried Ruin/Engineered Explosives as a recurrable removal?

Fatal Push is fine even without the secondary condition just cause the 1-2 cmc threats are REAL problems for us. Deathrite, mana dorks, Lackies, Hasty Goblin Guides, Aether Vialed threats, etc. I still like Innocent Blood over it cause it don't give a shit what you're playing unless it's Tajuru Preserver or Sigarda Host of Herons...

Life from the Loam/Crucible of Worlds, Buried Ruin, Nevinyrral's Disk is the most insane recurring removal. Ratchet Bomb most likely takes to long to kill the Planeswalkers that matter. The Disk clears the field for your Mishra's Factories to murder their Jace.

[streetMage]

By and large, you would rather have ratchet bomb unless you can hit 3 counters on explosives. Also, that's mana Hungary enough that id just runnan ob, or an attrition next to a bloodghast or some such.

True, but the idea behind Buried Ruin/Explosives is the synergy with cards like Crop Rotation, Entomb and Life From the Loam in my build. Ratchet Bomb could work aswell...

[Quitrex]

With the fact that disk is 4 mana, 1 to activate, buried ruin takes a land drop, and disk doesn't actually kill planeswalkers but does kill your crucible, the argument about ratchet bomb taking too long is basically irrelevant. The jace decks have a fair amount of removal that they haven't been able to do much with, so the odds of actually killing the jace with a factory or two unless you already have an active Liliana are remarkably low. At the point where you've had a Liliana active for that long, you're probably safe killing the jace without using a disk.

[jredelstein]

Hey, awesome. You tooks Matt's spot (9th) I wish I had seen your deck. The Depths player you faced is a friend of mine(Pernicious Dude on here), as is the Burn player who scooped you in round 6. Are you in green for Loam? or just Decay/Library? I have also looked at Faith of the Devoted. Without Loam/Barren Moor it seems anemic, but I could be wrong. I do discard a lot to Smallpox/Liliana. Keep me posted as you gain experience with it.

Green for Loam, Decay, Pernicious Deed, and Crop Rotation (I am 1 MB 2 SB now)

Got some inspiration for the Bloodghast/Cabal Therapy tech from matching an old match of yours against a burn player. Mind sharing your most recent decklist?

Also, thoughts on:
Fatal Push?
Buried Ruin/Engineered Explosives as a recurrable removal?

Yeah for some reason I can only get feature matches against Burn :S

I'll try to get my deck list posted soon, don't have it in front of me now.

I did buy Fatal Pushes in Japanese Foil in case I want to play them but I just prefer Innocent Blood at this point. I want to brew with BU Pox now that I have Vryn Prodigy and Fatal Push seems like it would be better with Jace and Snapcaster

Buried Ruin/EE seems really slow, Cabal Pit is my recurrable removal and Bloodghast is my Planeswalker killer, Deed takes care of everything else

[streetMage]

... I want to brew with BU Pox now that I have Vryn Prodigy and Fatal Push seems like it would be better with Jace and Snapcaster...

Sounds neat, blue also gives access to Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver. Unlike Liliana, she can actually win you the game by "milling" your opponent and provides another form of attrition.

[MrFrowny_]

Interesting, I've always attempted to build a UB based Pox deck but could never really get it off the ground. What do we think the pros/cons are of UB over GB or Mono-Black Pox? I believe splashing for blue can do the same sort of thing that green does, it gives us virtual card advantage and allows us to manipulate the deck instead of just playing off the top.

Does anyone else think this is something worth testing? I'd like to see what you all think.

[Fjaulnir]

Worth testing? *Any* cool idea should always be tested before discarding it


What it offers imho:
Probably: Jace, VP; Brainstorm, Snapcaster Mage, Flusterstorm SB?
Maybe: Stifle, Spell Pierce SB? (or Flusterstorm/Swan Song), Ashiok, Recoil (MB or SB?), Jace TMS SB for grindy matchups

[jredelstein]

Main:
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Smallpox
3 Life from the Loam
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Collective Brutality
2 Entomb
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Nether Spirit
3 Bloodghast
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Innocent Blood
1 Raven's Crime
1 Crop Rotation

4 Wasteland
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Barren Moor
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Cabal Pit
1 Bojuka Bog
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

Sideboard:
2 Crop Rotation
2 Faith of the Devoted
1 Collective Brutality
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Innocent Blood
1 Pithing Needle
1 Pernicious Deed
2 Duress
1 Golgari Charm
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Extirpate

[harbingerofthevoid]

Seems like that list would like Black Sun's Zenith.

[Scott]

Worth testing? *Any* cool idea should always be tested before discarding it


What it offers imho:
Probably: Jace, VP; Brainstorm, Snapcaster Mage, Flusterstorm SB?
Maybe: Stifle, Spell Pierce SB? (or Flusterstorm/Swan Song), Ashiok, Recoil (MB or SB?), Jace TMS SB for grindy matchups

Given how often Pox taps out, and the mana denial, I don't hate the idea of Daze in Pox either.

[Fjaulnir]

The only UB pox list I could find that ever finished anything was this:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12272&d=270714

Spell pierce over daze, I guess cuz you care less about creatures and Pierce is better at stopping combo?

(Altho the Smallpoxes are SB only, so not sure if it's really pox or just UB control)


Also PS: no brainstorm?


Edit: altho daze would be hilarious in a situation like this on the draw:
Opp: turn 1 land, creature
We: Dark Rit, something, Smallpox
Opponent: Force the Smallpox
We: Daze the Fow, dont even sac a land

[OmniStrata]

With the fact that disk is 4 mana, 1 to activate, buried ruin takes a land drop, and disk doesn't actually kill planeswalkers but does kill your crucible, the argument about ratchet bomb taking too long is basically irrelevant.

Ratchet Bomb takes 5 turns to go off technically if you're gunning down Jace. During those 5 turns, you're probably getting hit by threats. Assuming you top deck it and didn't play it early game in most scenarios. That and it'd only kill Jace. Tokens and <4 cmc problems remain.

Disc kills Crucible is irrelevant. 1 Turn, you cast Disc and your Crucible and Buried Ruin are in play. Let's assume you're at 5-6+ land already. 2 Turns, you pop disc and lose Crucible, but you clear the board except for Jace and your Liliana. 3 Turns, activate Ruin, recover/cast Crucible, use Crucible to Bring back Ruin, activate Ruin again for Disc. 4 Turns, repeat turn 1. 5 turns disc pops again...

Both scenarios take the same amount of turns, it's just the Disc does more for the time spent. On the other hand, Golgari Pox can just Maelstrom Pulse Jace's face and laugh its way home. This is why we Needle their dome.

Still, the Japanese Adachi Pox deck runs the Disc and for the conditions needed to meet it, it's still pretty solid board clear. I don't run either Disc or Ratchet Bomb but would rather just Pithing Needle walkers and use Drown in Sorrow for board clearing.

[Quitrex]

So while it takes the same number of turns to pop bomb and disk for a 'jace clear', it's worth noting that the bomb still costs less mana (5for play and activate disk, 5+land drop for activate ruins returning crucible, 2+another land drop to return disk vs 2 for bomb, 2 plus a land drop for buried ruin back a bomb) and that ratchet bomb is infinitely faster vs elves and d&t. Personally I just run deluge and needle as well, just giving my thoughts on disk vs bomb in a recursive threats to pw conversation that was starting

[streetMage]

Ken Haas took down the Legacy classic this weekend with 4x Smallpox (Jund Depths list):
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=113746

I'm currently trying out Mirri's Guile myself, its no Top but okish I guess...

[OmniStrata]

Ken Haas took down the Legacy classic this weekend with 4x Smallpox (Jund Depths list):
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=113746

I'm currently trying out Mirri's Guile myself, its no Top but okish I guess...

For a deck that goes hellbent ASAP, Mirri's Guile is great. Better than Top when you take into account it costs nothing to use. Ultimately, you'll still need either a dredger or a fetchland to fix the shitty draws after using it for 3-4 turns.