[Primer/Deck] Pox

[Hardcore]

i am thinking maybe sadistic sacrament would be good vs miracles. Anyone have any experience using that card?.

[Toxboy]

i am thinking maybe sadistic sacrament would be good vs miracles. Anyone have any experience using that card?.

I know Earwig squad does a good job for goblins so could work, though I'm personality not sure how good it is since I have so far Quite the positive record vs miracles.

[Aquamaniac]

I saw some people sharing their BW list a few pages ago, figured I'd share mine for some input.

Deck: BW Pox (60)

// Lands
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Marsh Flats
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Scrubland
5 Swamp
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

// Spells
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Lingering Souls
1 Pox
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
3 Thoughtseize
1 Vindicate
4 Dark Ritual
4 Innocent Blood
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Liliana of the Veil

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Disenchant
SB: 2 Duress
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 2 Massacre
SB: 2 Perish
SB: 2 Porphyry Nodes
SB: 2 Spinning Darkness
SB: 1 Thoughtseize

I've only run this in local small-scale tournies. Innocent Blood used to be STP, but I prefer Innocent Blood more in the local meta.

[mykatdied]

I saw some people sharing their BW list a few pages ago, figured I'd share mine for some input.

Deck: BW Pox (60)

// Lands
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Marsh Flats
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Scrubland
5 Swamp
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

// Spells
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Lingering Souls
1 Pox
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
3 Thoughtseize
1 Vindicate
4 Dark Ritual
4 Innocent Blood
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Liliana of the Veil

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Disenchant
SB: 2 Duress
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 2 Massacre
SB: 2 Perish
SB: 2 Porphyry Nodes
SB: 2 Spinning Darkness
SB: 1 Thoughtseize

I've only run this in local small-scale tournies. Innocent Blood used to be STP, but I prefer Innocent Blood more in the local meta.

In your list I can definitely see the reason why you would want innocent blood. I mainly run swords to Plowshares because I run tombstalker and want less symmetrical sacrifice effects. Running tombstalker also makes up for the life an opponent can gain from swords by being a much faster clock than souls or factory.

I do have to ask, why porphyry nodes? Not sure how great that seems. I guess it does hit nimble mongoose, tnn and other possible hexproof threats. It just seems loose to me. Engineered plague is likely better for that slot as it has a lasting effect against decks like elves, merfolk and even mentor builds. Otherwise most decks likely don't run enough creatures to make it that worthwhile. Our sacrifice effects already handle the creature light decks and nodes can oftentimes come down a bit too late or too early and not actually get much value. How has testing been proving for you on that?

I'm very interested if you have had much luck with it as well. What seem to be weak and strong match ups etc.

[Aquamaniac]

In your list I can definitely see the reason why you would want innocent blood. I mainly run swords to Plowshares because I run tombstalker and want less symmetrical sacrifice effects. Running tombstalker also makes up for the life an opponent can gain from swords by being a much faster clock than souls or factory.

I do have to ask, why porphyry nodes? Not sure how great that seems. I guess it does hit nimble mongoose, tnn and other possible hexproof threats. It just seems loose to me. Engineered plague is likely better for that slot as it has a lasting effect against decks like elves, merfolk and even mentor builds. Otherwise most decks likely don't run enough creatures to make it that worthwhile. Our sacrifice effects already handle the creature light decks and nodes can oftentimes come down a bit too late or too early and not actually get much value. How has testing been proving for you on that?

I'm very interested if you have had much luck with it as well. What seem to be weak and strong match ups etc.

Porphyry Nodes was the budget go to over The Abyss and has really helped deal with Monastery Mentor if they get a trigger or two off, but Engineered Plague definitely seems like a better option (I can't believe no one in my group thought about it). Personally, my biggest struggle is being on the draw against a turn 1 Aether Vial. I have a few local Fish players, and every match comes down to "can I keep Vial off the table." Nodes has done work in these situations, but not often enough. UWR Delver is always a bit of a struggle, as is OmniTell (every win I've pulled off against OmniTell has been off of incredibly risky plays that somehow work). EsperBlade doesn't pose as much as a problem, any iteration of Nic Fit is an absolute shut out for them. I lose to storm variants more than I should, its always just me making mistakes. I've yet to not draw against D&T on this build. Elves, Grixis, and Miracles rarely show up.

The "creature-less" aspect of the list still throws people off. The one UWR Delver player keeps bringing in Containment Priest against me. even though we've all told him it doesn't do anything. My meta has been hate free since, well, forever (stompy decks don't even make appearances). I'm sure given the rest of the year I'll have to start making drastic changes to how I pilot it to do well in the small room setting.

There's a tourny coming up next week, I'll throw in the E.Plagues and watch them perform better than Nodes (R.I.P. cool art).

[mykatdied]

Porphyry Nodes was the budget go to over The Abyss and has really helped deal with Monastery Mentor if they get a trigger or two off, but Engineered Plague definitely seems like a better option (I can't believe no one in my group thought about it). Personally, my biggest struggle is being on the draw against a turn 1 Aether Vial. I have a few local Fish players, and every match comes down to "can I keep Vial off the table." Nodes has done work in these situations, but not often enough. UWR Delver is always a bit of a struggle, as is OmniTell (every win I've pulled off against OmniTell has been off of incredibly risky plays that somehow work). EsperBlade doesn't pose as much as a problem, any iteration of Nic Fit is an absolute shut out for them. I lose to storm variants more than I should, its always just me making mistakes. I've yet to not draw against D&T on this build. Elves, Grixis, and Miracles rarely show up.

The "creature-less" aspect of the list still throws people off. The one UWR Delver player keeps bringing in Containment Priest against me. even though we've all told him it doesn't do anything. My meta has been hate free since, well, forever (stompy decks don't even make appearances). I'm sure given the rest of the year I'll have to start making drastic changes to how I pilot it to do well in the small room setting.

There's a tourny coming up next week, I'll throw in the E.Plagues and watch them perform better than Nodes (R.I.P. cool art).

Nodes isn't the worst idea by far. I have just never liked it as the only way you truly get value is when you are behind on the board. For my bw list I went with stalker and nether spirit because they work fine with night of souls betrayal and combine that with engineered plague and you pretty much never lose the tribal match up.

Personally one of the best ways to beat vial is to bring pithing needle and let them have 4 dead cards in their deck once you have named vial. If they don't see any artifact or enchantments game 1 they are unlikely to bring in hate for it. Although crucible could instigate that. Engineered plague is also good vs death and taxes naming human. At least it kills mother of Runes, thalia and nerfs crusader quite a bit. The rest of your creature kill can handle the rest plus without access to thalia they can't hinder your ability to play multiple spells a turn with the tax effect she brings.

Patriot delver can be a tough match up. If they see you are creatureless main board they are likely to board out some removal, most likely swords to plow. This can allow you to run something like stalker or for a brief period of time I ran desecration demon. He plays extremely well with our game plan and encourages people to sacrifice their creatures which is just gravy.

Way back when I first piloted my original bw list I wrote a brief tournament report. Here is the link http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/t...r?comment=2896

[Hardcore]

how does storm interact with counterbalance?

[jredelstein]

how does storm interact with counterbalance?

They play main board discard, Duress, and Cabal Therapy, and sideboard into Abrupt Decay

[Hardcore]

sorry, i meant how spells with storm mechanic interact with counterbalance. Can it counter all the copies?

[Bobmans]

Counterbalance oracle texting:
"Whenever an opponent casts a spell, you may reveal the top card of your library. If you do, counter that spell if it has the same converted mana cost as the revealed card."

Meaning that CB only trigger's on the casted spell, but doesn't trigger on the storm copies since those aren't cast. Rather the storm copies are put on the stack. Specific part of the wording: "..casts a spell, ... counter that spell...".

Additionally, that means potentially the original spell is countered by CB, but the storm triggered copies remain on the stack and resolve unless another effect prevents them to.

[Hardcore]

Thank you! That means Bitter ordeal may be better sb card, vs miracles, than Sadistic sacrament.

[Hardcore]

Porphyry Nodes was the budget go to over The Abyss and has really helped deal with Monastery Mentor if they get a trigger or two off, but Engineered Plague definitely seems like a better option (I can't believe no one in my group thought about it). Personally, my biggest struggle is being on the draw against a turn 1 Aether Vial. I have a few local Fish players, and every match comes down to "can I keep Vial off the table." Nodes has done work in these situations, but not often enough. UWR Delver is always a bit of a struggle, as is OmniTell (every win I've pulled off against OmniTell has been off of incredibly risky plays that somehow work). EsperBlade doesn't pose as much as a problem, any iteration of Nic Fit is an absolute shut out for them. I lose to storm variants more than I should, its always just me making mistakes. I've yet to not draw against D&T on this build. Elves, Grixis, and Miracles rarely show up.

The "creature-less" aspect of the list still throws people off. The one UWR Delver player keeps bringing in Containment Priest against me. even though we've all told him it doesn't do anything. My meta has been hate free since, well, forever (stompy decks don't even make appearances). I'm sure given the rest of the year I'll have to start making drastic changes to how I pilot it to do well in the small room setting.

There's a tourny coming up next week, I'll throw in the E.Plagues and watch them perform better than Nodes (R.I.P. cool art).

Storm is best stoped by taxing effects like chalice or thorn of amethyst. I see you run nine 1cc discards spells. Those in the SB are probably redundant, so try switch them for something else.

[zenitramleirdag]

i agree, its not safe to rely on just discard to stop storm since they have brainstrom to hide their important spells and past in flames to flash them back..i've had better success against storm using sphere effects like sphere of resistance/trinisphere and extraction effects like extirpate and surgical extraction..i once had a storm player scoop when on the first turn, i ritualed into an inquisition of kozilek nabbing infernal tutor, following it with a surgical extraction then using the remaining 2 mana to cast sphere of resistance..

[OmniStrata]

Thank you! That means Bitter ordeal may be better sb card, vs miracles, than Sadistic sacrament.

I've tested Sadistic Sacrament and after looking at Bitter Ordeal, I'd say Sadistic is better. Less conditions to be met and what Miracles deck has a large number of 3 cmc spells? I think the only problem I've seen in the past was weirdness like Blood Moon tutored with Enlightened Tutor.

I too see Miracles as a problem deck since we like low mana spells due to Wastes and Poxing and they play the long game with a large land count and can set their draws to be superior to ours.

Once there was a time I ran 4 Poxes main deck alongside 4 Lilianas. Suffice it to say, my Miracles buddy didn't enjoy losing 15+ land to his graveyard. Problem ultimately, is that swarming becomes more problematic than I'd like.

I've found dealing with Miracles involves a truckload of disruption in the form of Land killing, Fetchland prevention, and Pithing Needle. Oddly enough, preventing reshuffles by surgically extracting Ponder and Fetches can give you an edge when their SDT starts giving them garbage cards after 3 turns. CounterBalance itself is less of an issue.

If you have the option of destroying one or the other, let it be SDT because top decking sux for us.

[Hardcore]

yeah, lost to angels last tuesday. :P

[Hardcore]

Sadistic sacrament should be brutal vs 12 post.

[zenitramleirdag]

it could work though it seems a tad bit slow..
i prefer wasting one of their cloudposts or glimmerposts then following it up with a surgical extraction..

[Hardcore]

Yeah, did that to the local player. Now he plays pithing needle in main deck(!).

Needle AND Warping wail.

[blubberpompnao]

Hey guys I really like Life from the Loam and I REALLY like Pox BUT I'm having trouble finding a good "stock" Loam Pox list. Anyone got any good recommendations?

[zenitramleirdag]

Hey guys I really like Life from the Loam and I REALLY like Pox BUT I'm having trouble finding a good "stock" Loam Pox list. Anyone got any good recommendations?

mr. edelstein is a good loam pox pilot, he should be able to shine some light on your case..