[Primer/Deck] Pox

[Mr. Safety]

Nice!!! The ultimate from LtlH is exactly what Pox wants. I could see a 4/2 or a 3/2 split between Veil/Last Hope easily. I think Bitterblossom is slightly better, just simply due to mana efficiency, but I can definitely see the value in exponential zombie hordes as a finisher.

[Hardcore]

Indeed. Thing is that's the best she can do. The other abilities are not that great.
BTW Her ultimate is not that hot either.
The emblem creates zombies at the beginning of the end step. If you are in a hurry that is no good.

[malfie13]

[B]Hi, all. I play two legacy decks. I play mud and have posted under it several times, and posted a 22nd place finish with it in pitt, recently, with a 700+ person tournament. My first love is pox, tho. I haven't played it competitively since the dig era, tho. I know we got some new tools, most notably push and brutality. My best finish with pox was at eternal weekend 3 or 4 years ago, where i went 5-2-1, but got knocked out by the draw, so i left rd 8 instead of staying through rd 9. My buddies were both saltlicks, otherwise i would have played out the rd and see if i placed in the t8, although i do not to this day know what the breakers were. Im going to post my current list, with the caveat of i think the sinkholes can be brutalies easilly. I always play a splash color, usually green. My two builds are either combo or value. Combo is crop rots and dark depths combo with mox diamonds, and usually 26 or 27 lands toolbox. I'm currently keen to try value pox, which is the more prison heavy version with cursed scrolls, and etc.

Deck: Legacy GB Pox sans combo.dec

Counts : 61 main / 15 sideboard

Creatures:1
1 Nether Spirit

Spells:36
2 Cursed Scroll
3 Dark Ritual
2 Innocent Blood
2 Thoughtseize
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Cursed Totem
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
2 Sylvan Library
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Toxic Deluge
1 The Abyss
1 Beseech the Queen

Lands:24
1 Bayou
1 Cabal Pit
2 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Hissing Quagmire
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Spawning Pool
2 Swamp
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:15
1 Dread of Night
1 Drop of Honey
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Sphere of Resistance
1 Engineered Plague
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Trinisphere
1 Helm of Obedience
3 Leyline of the Void
1 Noetic Scales

[/B]

[Hardcore]

Hi Malfie!

I like your list. Cool selection of cards, especially Cursed Totem in main!

[ntropy]

Hey all. I 3-0'd my local weekly twice recently, beating Miracles, UB Reanimator, Tezzerator, GW Enchantress, UR Delver, and Death and Taxes. I'm feeling pretty good about my list for a random meta. I'm really sold on 2x Ratchet Bomb in the main and 4x Collective Brutality, 4x Pithing Needle in the 75. (1 and 3, 2 and 2, respectively) I have liked 2x Lost Legacy in the board enough to keep testing. I got rid of Tomb of Urami, too. It's cute but cost me more games(2) than it won me(0). Just sharing. My list is in a previous post. Its Mono Black, no Legends.

[Hardcore]

Good to hear you are doing well!

[Bam Bam]

Hey guys, wanted to get your guys thoughts on the delve threats. Been running 2 tombstalker, 1 angler and it's been amazing in loam pox. Having a solid finisher has been extremely important. Mishra factory/nether spirit beats sometimes just don't cut it. My concerns before adding the delve threats was delving lands I wanted to loam back, but we cast plenty of spells. Another concern was smallpox nonbo, but most situations I'll happily sac a factory if I just have to smallpox that turn. Etc etc. Anyways, another difference in my list is 4 md chalice, so that shuts off plow a lot of times.

[Mr. Safety]

Hey guys, wanted to get your guys thoughts on the delve threats. Been running 2 tombstalker, 1 angler and it's been amazing in loam pox. Having a solid finisher has been extremely important. Mishra factory/nether spirit beats sometimes just don't cut it. My concerns before adding the delve threats was delving lands I wanted to loam back, but we cast plenty of spells. Another concern was smallpox nonbo, but most situations I'll happily sac a factory if I just have to smallpox that turn. Etc etc. Anyways, another difference in my list is 4 md chalice, so that shuts off plow a lot of times.

There's a guy at my local that plays 4x Tombstalker in his mono-black pox. He's that much sold on how good it is. Tombstalker + even one Mishra's Factory closes games FAST.

[Claymore]

What about the other Delve demon that can kill creatures? I've seen him in lists awhile ago.

[Mr. Safety]

What about the other Delve demon that can kill creatures? I've seen him in lists awhile ago.

Necropolis Fiend, for reference.

Not sure about the cost, it's even more prohibitive than Tombstalker. I think the ability is very good, if you have spare cards to delve. I think the real hold-up is that you need to pay X along with removing X cards, so anything beyond 3 is a stretch. That might be good enough, not sure, haven't tested him.

[FavoredRevenant]

Playing Necropolis Fiend over Tombstalker gets rid of his auxiliary effect as removal for Gurmag Angler in the Delver matchups. If you're reliant on Push to clear opposing threats, Angler can present a serious roadblock. Tombstalker races just as fast and provides the option to trade on the block if that suits you. You also have to ask yourself how often Necropolis Fiend is going to be used to kill a creature instead of using it for T: Deal 4 damage to target opponent.

[aslidsiksoraksi]

How to people feel about Ensnaring Bridge? It seems like a decent sideboard card against SnT and that kind of thing, but I was thinking of running it main, as it can shut down some decks completely game 1 and is a must-answer in g2. We can keep our hands low with Liliana...

I dunno, just a thought.

[mykatdied]

How to people feel about Ensnaring Bridge? It seems like a decent sideboard card against SnT and that kind of thing, but I was thinking of running it main, as it can shut down some decks completely game 1 and is a must-answer in g2. We can keep our hands low with Liliana...

I dunno, just a thought.

My most recent Pox list included 4 ensnaring bridge and went way too heavy on lilianas. I think bridge was incredible overall. Rest of the deck needed work and I am currently finding a way to improve it.

[Mr. Safety]

How to people feel about Ensnaring Bridge? It seems like a decent sideboard card against SnT and that kind of thing, but I was thinking of running it main, as it can shut down some decks completely game 1 and is a must-answer in g2. We can keep our hands low with Liliana...

I dunno, just a thought.

Bridge + Leyline + Helm = solid game plan. I would still maindeck some number of Factorys for blocking, or attacking if your helm is dealt with, but I think that's one of the best reasons to play Helm/Leyline as a win condition. I think Ensnaring Bridge + Bitterblossom is really strong as well, if you don't feel comfortable with Leyline/Helm (or don't have access to it.) I'm still convinced Bitterblossom is the best threat Pox could play. If I sleaved up Pox today, I would play 4x Bitterblossom/Bridge main and sideboard 4x Leyline of the Void/3x Helm of Obedience. I wouldn't even mess around with Chains/Abyss/Nether Void.

Theoretical list:

4x Bitterblossom
4x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Smallpox
4x Hymn to Tourach
2x Collective Brutality
4x Innocent Blood
2x Ratchet Bomb
3x Thoughtseize
2x Cabal Therapy
3x Dark Ritual
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Crucible of Worlds

4x Wasteland
4x Mishra's Factory
4x Urborg
12x Swamp

Sideboard
4x Leyline of the Void
3x Helm of Obedience
2x Collective Brutality
3x Pithing Needle
3x Engineered Plague


Much more prison-esque, but seems pretty hot to me. If I owned the Helms and BB's I'd be playing this tomorrow.

[aslidsiksoraksi]

That's an interesting way of doing it, I think Bitterblossom does really well under Bridge, and Leyline-Helm is a good move too. I was thinking I'd use Cursed Scroll to win under the Bridge, it's also good on its own and doesn't have the side problem of draining our life. Ob-Nix was another thought, though plussing him to draw cards is counterproductive... In general if you have Bridge and the game is good and stalled then I figured Liliana can just take over and you can draw back up to the right number and start attacking once they have no relevant permanents (was surprised to see just 3x in your list). Was also thinking LtLH could work, once she's got enough zombies to take over the ground we can just draw up to 2 cards and attack.

Might try something like your list out soon, I don't have the bitterblossoms but I do have the Leylines and 2x Helm... Probably try to be normal Pox and win with Scrolls in the MD.

Was also thinking of going hard on Trinispheres with more Sinkholes. But I think that might be a different deck, not sure if I want to put that and the Bridge thing in since it would dilute the removal/discard a lot.

[Hardcore]

Porphyry nodes?

[Mr. Safety]

That's an interesting way of doing it, I think Bitterblossom does really well under Bridge, and Leyline-Helm is a good move too. I was thinking I'd use Cursed Scroll to win under the Bridge, it's also good on its own and doesn't have the side problem of draining our life. Ob-Nix was another thought, though plussing him to draw cards is counterproductive... In general if you have Bridge and the game is good and stalled then I figured Liliana can just take over and you can draw back up to the right number and start attacking once they have no relevant permanents (was surprised to see just 3x in your list). Was also thinking LtLH could work, once she's got enough zombies to take over the ground we can just draw up to 2 cards and attack.

Might try something like your list out soon, I don't have the bitterblossoms but I do have the Leylines and 2x Helm... Probably try to be normal Pox and win with Scrolls in the MD.

Was also thinking of going hard on Trinispheres with more Sinkholes. But I think that might be a different deck, not sure if I want to put that and the Bridge thing in since it would dilute the removal/discard a lot.

I really like sinkhole + trinisphere, solid tech. I would want 4x dark ritual in that type of build. T1 trini, or just t1 discard + sinkhole. Sinkhole really needs more mana to feed it, but when the mana lines up it can be incredible.

I also like 4x nether spirit/bloodghast + contamination with sinkhole.

[Rampart]

I really like sinkhole + trinisphere, solid tech. I would want 4x dark ritual in that type of build. T1 trini, or just t1 discard + sinkhole. Sinkhole really needs more mana to feed it, but when the mana lines up it can be incredible.

I also like 4x nether spirit/bloodghast + contamination with sinkhole.

Quick question for you:

What are you trying to solve with Bitterblossom/Ensnaring bridge that a more standard build can't answer? is this a combination of cards that you just want to test or try out or are you struggling with a match-up, etc.

I am new to pox (not to legacy) and when you read Pox content and look at placing decklists it feels like there is some "randomness" in thought and deck building. Just trying to get a deeper understanding of what is going on as I start to play more and more tournaments.

Thanks

[aslidsiksoraksi]

You're right that there is a good deal of randomness or just feeling-it-out that goes with those decklists. The deck is too fringe to have a lot of dedicated theory discussion, and people end up going with what they feel is working.

I guess when I suggested the bridge or the trinisphere/sinkhole thing I didn't have a specific matchup in mind, I was more thinking of things that have been good in games and how to make those elements stronger.

Bridge will just win game 1 against a lot decks if it resolves (Delvers w/o K-command, DnT, Reanimator...)

Trinisphere also is strong against Delver decks and Mentor decks, Brainstomr decks in general. Good against combo if you get it out fast enough.

Having played Pox for only about 4 months I feel like I am still feeling out the matchups. But my experience so far has been that there aren't any totally terrible matchups except Loam decks. I haven't won much against Sneak and Show either, but that might just be my experience. Most Delver matchups are alright to good, Blue Control decks (Czech and Miracles) are alright but not great... Most matchups feel relatively even to me, aside from the Loam games. A lot depends on your draw and you and your opponent play of course.

Pox's classic weakness is it lacks card manipulation. Bridge and Trinisphere don't necessarily help directly, but they can provide harder locks than we usually have, so that we have more time to draw? My other thought was Crystal Ball, but it seems so weak

[Rampart]

You're right that there is a good deal of randomness or just feeling-it-out that goes with those decklists. The deck is too fringe to have a lot of dedicated theory discussion, and people end up going with what they feel is working.

I guess when I suggested the bridge or the trinisphere/sinkhole thing I didn't have a specific matchup in mind, I was more thinking of things that have been good in games and how to make those elements stronger.

Bridge will just win game 1 against a lot decks if it resolves (Delvers w/o K-command, DnT, Reanimator...)

Trinisphere also is strong against Delver decks and Mentor decks, Brainstomr decks in general. Good against combo if you get it out fast enough.

Having played Pox for only about 4 months I feel like I am still feeling out the matchups. But my experience so far has been that there aren't any totally terrible matchups except Loam decks. I haven't won much against Sneak and Show either, but that might just be my experience. Most Delver matchups are alright to good, Blue Control decks (Czech and Miracles) are alright but not great... Most matchups feel relatively even to me, aside from the Loam games. A lot depends on your draw and you and your opponent play of course.

Pox's classic weakness is it lacks card manipulation. Bridge and Trinisphere don't necessarily help directly, but they can provide harder locks than we usually have, so that we have more time to draw? My other thought was Crystal Ball, but it seems so weak

I can respect that. We all have cards that we have bias's for. I am not a fan of hardcore prison in pox personally as I have always found it to be disappointing, I would much rather be playing Braids Stax if I was going down that road as it has better tools. I was more interested in bitterblossom, but after playing with it for a little bit I don't think it is a card that I want to explore any more. I was looking for a 15th card in my sideboard that can close games out fast and bitterblossom is not that.

I think Pox is in a pretty good place, Loam decks are definitely the worst match-up but that gets much better after board and your right nothing else feels unwinnable. If you want to draw more cards, there is always Bottle Cloister or Coercive Portal.