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Thread: [Primer/Deck] Pox

  1. #4881

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Cool looking Karn list! I think if you are playing Astrolabe (and it doesn't get banned eventually...) then the 2nd color is basically 'free'. Also, don't forget Liquimetal Coating in your Karn-board!

    I think I am missing a key ingredient in my list, something that makes Ghost Quarter better than Rishadan Port: Ashiok, Dream Render. I think this is going to be very, very good at denying fetchland activations and controlling top-decks. I think before even the 5th mill-rock there needs to be 2-3 copies of this card. It means I want Dark Ritual again, which is fine because I'm thinking this will only be a 20-22 land deck. I'll start with 1 copy and go from there.

    Ashiok I think will be pretty good at gluing a couple of these synergies together.

    Honestly not sure if there's anything in the main I'd want to cut to splash something in, maybe Ancient Stirrings or Whir could be nice 1-2ofs (could replace Symmetry if I find it isn't live enough). It does give me a bit more flexibility with the sb. And yeah, hopefully 'Labe gets hit next list, but that won't be for a while(?) so might as well play around with it while I can.

    Ashiok does look very strong, I completely forgot about him. I might actually just have to cut 'Labe to make room for all this goodstuff lol. Not sure how he makes Ghost Quarter better than Rishadan though.

  2. #4882
    Darth Poxious

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Ashiok had no effect on Ghost Quarter because we are the ones using it. Not our opponents. But it does a huge slew of other things that fuqs over mana sources. No Crop Rotation nonsense. No EtB fetch BS. No tutors. No Buried Alive nonsense. If only he was 2 cmc.
    One Liliana to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all into the Sinkhole Wasteland!

  3. #4883
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by OmniStrata View Post
    Ashiok had no effect on Ghost Quarter because we are the ones using it. Not our opponents. But it does a huge slew of other things that fuqs over mana sources. No Crop Rotation nonsense. No EtB fetch BS. No tutors. No Buried Alive nonsense. If only he was 2 cmc.
    I missed that! It still forces a shuffle if there is a good card on top (which we would see with lantern.) Just preventing them from using their fetches is the main goal, and then the secondary would be activating Ashiok to get the good cards off the top and exiling their graveyard. I'm thinking 2 copies and some amount of Dark Ritual, at least 1 to give 4 full acceleration slots (3 Opal/1 Ritual to start.) Some lists will have plenty of basics (SnOko) but other decks will be 100% boned from Wasteland + Ghost Quarter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sella View Post
    Ashiok does look very strong, I completely forgot about him. I might actually just have to cut 'Labe to make room for all this goodstuff lol. Not sure how he makes Ghost Quarter better than Rishadan though.
    I misunderstood how GQ interacted with Ashiok. Port is an interesting idea, but I don't think it's worth it without adding pressure like Death and Taxes does with Aether Vial. We may be constricting mana, but without Vise we wouldn't be putting pressure on their life total. In this first version I'm cooking up the main goal is to prevent them from drawing lands with the Lantern synergies, rather than traditionally preventing them from drawing action. I could still ignore cards that can't be cast (because not enough lands) but other than that, no lands. The hardest part to achieve, in my experience, with a LD deck is that eventually they draw more lands than I have LD spells. Then they crawl back into the game. I want to blast them and then keep them locked under no lands. Rishadan Port isn't as good as Winter Orb in this setup, mostly because I don't want to be tapping my lands each turn just to deny mana. I need to continue with LD/lock pieces with my mana. Orb is a one-time investment.

    Great points all! Keep it rolling!
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  4. #4884

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Even against SnowKo decks we still have a lot of game against them with Sinkhole/Smallpox. Feeling pretty good about this strategy overall, extremely tempted to actually finally invest in mtgo just to give it a spin lol.

  5. #4885
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Sella View Post
    Even against SnowKo decks we still have a lot of game against them with Sinkhole/Smallpox. Feeling pretty good about this strategy overall, extremely tempted to actually finally invest in mtgo just to give it a spin lol.
    I am only missing a handful of cards to do this in paper, so that's the route I'm going. I don't do MTGO right now and I'm hesitant to make the plunge. I just need few copies of Lantern and Codex Shredder and I can build this now!
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  6. #4886

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Looks like its a moot point for me anyway since MTGO just hits me with a barrage of connection errors. Thanks, Wizards. When was the last time they updated that client again?

    Anyways, for the sake of posting something actually on-topic, updated list:

    4x Lantern of Insight
    4x Codex Shredder
    3x Mox Opal
    1x Ensnaring Bridge
    1x Crucible of Worlds
    1x Pithing Needle
    1x Black Vise

    3x Karn, the Great Creator
    2x Ashiok, Dream Render

    3x Surgical Extraction

    4x Thoughtseize
    4x Sinkhole
    2x Smallpox
    3x Scheming Symmetry
    1x Dark Ritual

    7x Swamp
    4x Vault of Whispers
    4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4x Wasteland
    4x Ghost Quarter


    Taking out the 'Labes to make room for Safety's suggested Ashiok/Rit ratio, plus another Surgical (always wanted to find a way to fit it in at 3 anyways). Between Ashiok/Quarter/Shredder Symmetry should almost always be live, might even up it to 4 if 3 Surgicals ends up feeling less good than I expect.

  7. #4887
    Darth Poxious

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    And now, Land Destruction Codex Pox is born! Anybody know a way to delete decks in MtGgoldfish?
    One Liliana to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all into the Sinkhole Wasteland!

  8. #4888

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by OmniStrata View Post
    Ashiok had no effect on Ghost Quarter c.
    If you are moving into more Ashiok, would wishclaw talisman be better?

  9. #4889
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    If you are moving into more Ashiok, would wishclaw talisman be better?
    Talisman sounds very good! It's another artifact that feeds opal and becomes one-sided with Ashiok. Nice catch!!!
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  10. #4890
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    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  11. #4891

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Also plays well with Karn too, you can use it, opp can't!

    Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  12. #4892

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    If black vise is the main wincon, does Nether void make sense, or is that too much/off topic for this build?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  13. #4893
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by ronco View Post
    If black vise is the main wincon, does Nether void make sense, or is that too much/off topic for this build?
    I think it's on-topic, but the sad reality is I don't have any, nor do I have the ability to get any. MTGO would be the place to test it, but I haven't made the plunge into online magic yet.

    I ordered all the cards I needed for testing my list, along with some extra stuff to toy around with. I really like the Wishclaw Talisman idea that non-inflammable mentioned, so I nabbed a set. I could only grab 1 Cursed Scroll, which is unfortunate. It wasn't expensive, just scarce (and I don't shop around, I just go with one supplier.)

    I think for now I'm going to try Ashiok as the way to break Talisman symmetry. Ashiok is much more in-tune with the strategy than Karn, and I don't ever see getting to 6 mana for lattice given Smallpox. I'll mess around with it, start testing and see where the holes are.

    I haven't given up on another whacky idea yet either:Spreading Algae + Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. It encourages a green splash, which allows for Ancient Stirrings, Abrupt Decay, and Sylvan Library.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  14. #4894
    Darth Poxious

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Black Vise+Sphere of Resistance sounds more economical. Sphere could be Sinkholes #5-6. I've tested a set once. Never again. Sideboarding extras to fight storm decks is definitely something to consider.

    Borrowing the base of Mr. Safety, I'm going to try this over Memorial Day Weekend

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/3009914#online

    I wanted unconditional mana sources hence the Opal ommissions.
    Last edited by OmniStrata; 05-22-2020 at 10:44 AM. Reason: Extra info
    One Liliana to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all into the Sinkhole Wasteland!

  15. #4895

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by OmniStrata View Post
    I'm going to try this over Memorial Day Weekend

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/3009914#online
    needs this guy:

  16. #4896
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Nether Spirit doesn't seem bad, especially where it only takes up 1 slot. I think without Ensnaring Bridge to lock up combat it's nice to have a perpetual blocker.

    I'm also considering Lodestone Golem as a potential win-condition over Black Vise. It blocks, taxes, and always attacks for 5. It's a little awkward with Smallpox, but with a high enough artifact count he could be another way to break symmetry.

    I'm also considering more copies of Dark Ritual, considering Ashiok is pretty important to the whole setup. I'm thinking 18-20 lands, 3x Opal, 3x Dark Ritual.

    I removed the Winter Orbs from the maindeck; they will be in the sideboard for control matchups.

    Not having Mishra's Factory seems like a glaring problem in my deck; I'm really leaning on Black Vise + Cursed Scroll to finish out games. I might have to bite the bullet and find a way to squeeze in at least 2 copies.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  17. #4897
    Darth Poxious

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Nether Spirit!!

    Good Taste is hard to come by...

    Winter Orbs with Cursed Scrolls makes one weep. But Lode Stone Golem and Cursed Scrolls, oh my. Also, that golem almost replaces Sphere of resistance. Smallpox is less of an issue if you could sac another creature. Ephochrasite says hello.
    Last edited by OmniStrata; 05-22-2020 at 04:58 PM. Reason: More info
    One Liliana to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all into the Sinkhole Wasteland!

  18. #4898
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    The more I think about this, the worse Black Vise seems. If it doesn't go well I think I will drop those for 1x neither spirit and 2x Mishras factory.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  19. #4899

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I ran a Legacy challenge with a pox-less list that leaned really heavy into the Lantern plan, including they slow-roll deckout gameplan, which as it turns out does not work great on mtgo (I went 0-5 mainly due to timing out lol). It did convince me to add poxes back into the deck since I forgot that cards like Collector Ouphe exists, turns out pithing needle can't solve everything.

    List was something like lanterns, 7x mill rocks, discard spells, maindeck surgicals + needles + bridges, astrolabes, opals. I did try out the Rishadan Port + Winter Orb package.

    Round 1 vs sneak and show: i couldve had game 1, i blind kept a hand with bridge that i put in with show and tell, rip Emrakul. Unfortunately even though it couldnt attack Emrakul had his revenge when I idiotically milled in response to a brainstorm and they put the tentacle boi on top and then shuffled back their deck (they had like 7 cards left). Honestly id already surgicaled their interaction so i still wouldve been fine but i also durdled around figuring out mtgos controls and had like 2 minutes left on the clock, didnt realize time worked like that lol.

    Round 2 vs Temus Delver: kept a 1 lander g1 that was really good otherwise but then my 1 land (ghost quarter) got wastelanded and i didnt draw another one the rest of the game. sadtimes. lost g2 to typical delver beats, bridge got dazed and dead of winter got forced.

    round 3 vs yorion miracles: ramp ramp ramp ramp ramp into threat cast yorion draw 30 million cards counter everythign AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

    dont remember anything past that, I started drinking after that wonderful miracles experience.

    Anyways, a few of the things I learned:

    - I don't think that a land destruction-focused build is going to work as long as decks like Yorion Miracles and Snowko are around, so basically until 'Labe is banned. It works great in theory but you have to open really well, hope that they open without lands, and Uro is a real beating for us overall. Rather than focusing on restricting their manabase its a lot easier to keep them from drawing threats. We can still run wastelands to hit utility lands and shit but I think that sinkholes and winter orbs go out.

    - Safety is probably right about Black Vise not being great, I wasn't running it but in most of the games it wouldn't have done much anyways

    - Trying to go 50/50 on the lantern and pox bits doesn't really work, I feel like if we want to lean heavy into lantern we need to splash green for stirrings. Alternatively (and what I think would be better probably) we could just lean heavier into Pox and treat lantern + rocks more as tech. Although stirrings would still probably be good, I think a green splash is worth testing if we can work it into the manabase.

    - Astrolabe really does sort of suck in this deck, it just doesn't really do enough and its a bit constrictive on the manabase since you have to run X amount of snow lands to make it consistent, definitely should come out for other cards.

    - Bridge is extremely good and probably needs to be mained at 3

    I'm thinking of moving more towards a Karn build, I think that lattice lock is our best wincon. I'm also going to cut some of my mill rocks and lean more back into playing it as a sort of Pox artifact deck.

    Also, I understand your hesitation to get into mtgo safety. Maybe its just that the format feels sort of shit right now, or even that I was playing a dumb meme deck, but I know that if I were playing this same deck at a locals and was able to have some bantz or actual conversation with my opponent the experience would be 10000% better. I'm fine with just clicking buttons when the format is good but when stuff like 4c piles and whatnot are in the meta its just a feelsbad. Also doesnt help that the shit starts at like 8 pm my time so if i actually play every round im up pretty late.

  20. #4900
    Darth Poxious

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Would Black Vise + Howling Mine + Sphere of Resistance/Trinisphere/Nether Void be asking too much? Can someone remember why the Vise was banned ages ago and why it was unbanned?
    One Liliana to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all into the Sinkhole Wasteland!

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