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Thread: [Primer/Deck] Pox

  1. #4621
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Fellow Poxers,

    Connor Dedrich Top 8'ed the Legacy MCQ at MagicFest Seattle.

    9 x Snow-Covered Swamps
    4 x Wasteland
    4 x Mishra’s Factory
    4 x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1 x Dakmor Salvage
    1 x Cabal Pit
    1 x Bojuka Bog
    1 x Blast Zone

    1 x Nether Spirit

    3 x Thoughtseize
    3 x Innocent Blood
    2 x Inquisition of Kozilek
    1 x Collective Brutality
    4 x Hymn to Tourach
    4 x Smallpox
    1 x Toxic Deluge

    4 x Dark Ritual
    1 x Fatal Push
    1 x Darkblast
    1 x Liliana’s Triumph

    4 x Liliana of the Veil
    3 x Cursed Scroll
    1 x Crucible of Worlds
    1 x Bitterblossom

    Sideboard
    4 x Surgical Extraction
    1 x Bontu’s Last Reckoning
    1 x Lost Legacy
    1 x Thoughtseize
    1 x Bitterblossom
    2 x Engineered Plague
    4 x Sphere of Resistance
    1 x Dystopia

    Sphere of Resistance and Dystopia in the board are pretty sweet. Also stoked on the lack of Legends cards. I have the Enchantments but I think the price of those 3 keeps people away from playing Pox. Finally some proof that they aren't necessary to compete.
    [I'll photograph your wedding for Reserved List cards]
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  2. #4622

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Yeah this list looks pretty good
    I saw some comments in some corners of the internet saying that it wasn't innovative or teched-out enough but it seems mostly solid
    Unsure about 0 Sinkhole and I think there are some choices that can be optimized (like 0 copies of Last Hope in the 75 but he somehow found room for 2 Plague and Darkblast, seems suspect)
    I also think 3 Scroll is too many, I like 2.

    But I like the no-Legends no-Ashiok choice

    7/6 Dino makes no sense in pox lol. As like a HERPPP 3-turn clock against Storm off a ritual I could MAYBE see it but it's definitely sideboard-only.
    The exile removal is a potential option but I don't think there is anything in the format that warrants playing it at the moment

  3. #4623

  4. #4624

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I was so hoping to see a pox variant in Modern Horizons. What kind of card would you like to see printed that would mainly benefit legacy Pox decks?

  5. #4625

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Pittplayer View Post
    I was so hoping to see a pox variant in Modern Horizons. What kind of card would you like to see printed that would mainly benefit legacy Pox decks?
    I can't think of anything specific per se, but:
    -something that helps close the game out quicker once the soft lock is established (obviously for non-aggro pox builds).
    -or perhaps a real strong lock piece that buys us time to naturally draw as deep as we need to for the win, that aren't $$$ (chains/void).
    -related to the above: Something to help win the top deck battles.
    -Card filtering for mono/mostly black builds.


    I feel like the disruption available is pretty strong, it's just getting across the finish line that I feel like I have trouble with most of the time. If I recall you play a blue splash so the above may not apply to your needs.

    Ah, something specific:
    -a less $ expensive tabby. lol.
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    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  6. #4626
    Darth Poxious

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by ronco View Post
    Ah, something specific:
    -a less $ expensive tabby. lol.
    This would be the game changer, a Land that reliably defends you against a horde that's not a mortgage payment...

    But on a more serious note, I'll always miss Chimeric Idol. If they could print a Pox dodging beat-stick that cost 0 to kill with, Life would be good. Mishra's costs 2 and Totem, like Cursed scroll costs 3. I think what hurts us the most are the attack requirements to balance our win cons. If only the hidden enchantments had an "undo" trigger.
    One Liliana to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all into the Sinkhole Wasteland!

  7. #4627
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by OmniStrata View Post
    This would be the game changer, a Land that reliably defends you against a horde that's not a mortgage payment...

    But on a more serious note, I'll always miss Chimeric Idol. If they could print a Pox dodging beat-stick that cost 0 to kill with, Life would be good. Mishra's costs 2 and Totem, like Cursed scroll costs 3. I think what hurts us the most are the attack requirements to balance our win cons. If only the hidden enchantments had an "undo" trigger.
    If only there were a black Myth Realized
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  8. #4628

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by OmniStrata View Post
    This would be the game changer, a Land that reliably defends you against a horde that's not a mortgage payment...

    But on a more serious note, I'll always miss Chimeric Idol. If they could print a Pox dodging beat-stick that cost 0 to kill with, Life would be good. Mishra's costs 2 and Totem, like Cursed scroll costs 3. I think what hurts us the most are the attack requirements to balance our win cons. If only the hidden enchantments had an "undo" trigger.
    I feel like its a green card and only for opponent's spells, but isn't there something that says "spells/abilities controlled by your opponent cant cause you to sacrifice permanents?" Or maybe it was specific to that card. I wonder if there is a way they could work that on to a black creature. Ie, :

    Proud Zombie - BBB
    This creature can't be sacrificed.
    2/2

    (or something).

    Edit - I'd even take a "fixed" chains like Narset or something where : "If an opponent would draw a card except for the first card drawn each turn, that player instead draws a card then discards a card." Not functionally identical, but for the most part it is. Plus it reads much easier lol. Heck that could be a PW static ability. Lili of the chains, anyone?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  9. #4629

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by OmniStrata View Post
    This would be the game changer, a Land that reliably defends you against a horde that's not a mortgage payment...

    But on a more serious note, I'll always miss Chimeric Idol. If they could print a Pox dodging beat-stick that cost 0 to kill with, Life would be good. Mishra's costs 2 and Totem, like Cursed scroll costs 3. I think what hurts us the most are the attack requirements to balance our win cons. If only the hidden enchantments had an "undo" trigger.
    Haunted Plate Mail

  10. #4630
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Pox needs a colorless or black Sensei's Divining Top effect to be truly competitive. Otherwise, it's just a metagame deck. Curiously, with all of the delver variants showing up, Pox seems to be a decent choice currently.

    We would need something like:

    Researcher's Index {2}

    tap: draw a card and put Researcher's Index on top of your library

    1: Look at the top 2 cards of your library and put them back in any order

    This would be fine, not broken enough to enable counterbalance but more than good enough in a Pox deck.

    EDIT: I think a green splash for Sylvan Library, Loam, Trophy, and Decay would be decent as well.
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  11. #4631

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Pox needs a colorless or black Sensei's Divining Top effect to be truly competitive. Otherwise, it's just a metagame deck. Curiously, with all of the delver variants showing up, Pox seems to be a decent choice currently.

    We would need something like:

    Researcher's Index {2}

    tap: draw a card and put Researcher's Index on top of your library

    1: Look at the top 2 cards of your library and put them back in any order

    This would be fine, not broken enough to enable counterbalance but more than good enough in a Pox deck.

    EDIT: I think a green splash for Sylvan Library, Loam, Trophy, and Decay would be decent as well.
    Sunset Pyramid

  12. #4632

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Erdvermampfa View Post
    There is also that Endless Atlas

    I think the prevalence of Wrenn and Six is a pretty big problem for Pox currently.
    Elderspell might be more well positioned than it was immediately post-WAR, or the deck should be playing more Needle effects.

  13. #4633
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Erdvermampfa View Post
    Jeesh, it's really close to playable, honestly.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

  14. #4634

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I've combed through almost this entire thread (up to page 194 starting from 1, and i started reading from maybe 210 or so). I don't think i saw it but maybe I over looked it.

    Has anyone tried creature based pox in a control shell outside of ghasts and nether spirit? Lili last hope usually has her -2 ability ignored but has it been tried with plaguecrafter? Every third turn discard or innocent blood in a sense. I would imagine the B/U players do this with snappy and get better value, but it was a thought for the mono black builds. Heck can even bring in creature tech like plague engineer out of the board for x/2s or tribal. Just a way to grind out a little extra value over a longer game and help close out with threats brought back from the yard. Less risk of worrying about smallpoxing them away.

    Probably not as useful as i think it could be, and maybe people aren't running it for a reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  15. #4635

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Ronco, I do try out such things all the time and have gathered a good amount of experience with similiar recursion strategies such as Phyrexian Reclamation, Liliana, Death's Majesty, Palace Siege and Virtus' Maneuver (I don't even consider Last Hope to be necessarily the best because its -2ing her isn't something you want to do in a lot of situations. You didn't even mention the other good ETB creature in black which is Gatekeeper of Malakir. But altogether I mostly had to conclude that a dedicated recursion strategy is often worse than a plain and simple straightforward approach which simply plays the most powerful cards available such as LotV. Well-thought out strategies and all the cute and subtile synergies do not tend to get rewarded as much in this format as does plain powerlevel of cards.

  16. #4636
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    The concept isn't bad, the problem I see is Liliana, the Last Hope's -7 is such a house, I think I only ever lost 1 game after using her ultimate, that the threat of ticking up even on an empty board versus bringing anything back just isn't worth it.
    Like if you swapped Lili's ultimate abilities, or were working off some other kind of creature recursion engine, then it'd have more weight. But specifically her, it's hard to justify game states outside of corner-case-christmas-land where you -2 instead of +1
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  17. #4637

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Yes, not having the ability to take advantage of Lili's -2 effect is a drawback in this deck. The problem is that once you start to play creatures then it in general it makes Smallpox worse. You can play 'spell' creatures that avoid this (like Shriekmaw or Plaguecrafter etc) but these are so below rate and also somewhat situational. Adding any creatures to your list at all also makes Nether Spirit worse.

    However, now that I think about it, the fact that Plaguecrafter can kill planeswalkers makes it seem like an attractive option. 2B Raven's Crime is obviously below rate but at least it does something against creatureless decks. Maybe it's worth trying.

    You do need to be careful that if your opponent bolts/plows it with the trigger on the stack then it will make you sacrifice your own Liliana

  18. #4638
    Darth Poxious

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    There is also that Endless Atlas

    I think the prevalence of Wrenn and Six is a pretty big problem for Pox currently.
    Elderspell might be more well positioned than it was immediately post-WAR, or the deck should be playing more Needle effects.
    Bag of Holding would have been perfect if it didn't shut off Free Nether Spirit from self discard. I do like the Atlas as a mono B Poxer.
    I'm pretty sure the Haunted Platemail would have been playable if it was 3 cmc. But can it be used with Factories? Oh, no good with people who like Nether Spirit... Awkward disynergy, cause equipping it costs a lot..
    One Liliana to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all into the Sinkhole Wasteland!

  19. #4639

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I'm still trying to tune a BG Loam Pox version.
    Ultimately, it really needs Sensei's Divining Top... Mirri's Guile is the closest you can get imo.

    A green or black Squee, the Immortal would be pretty awesome..

    Quote Originally Posted by ronco View Post
    ... Lili last hope usually has her -2 ability ignored ...
    Eternal Witness could be value with Liliana, the Last Hope in a BG shell...

  20. #4640

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    anyone else here on the FB group "smallpox: eradicate the meta"?

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