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Thread: [Primer/Deck] Pox

  1. #201

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I'll be running my version of Pox at Jupiter Games this Saturday.

  2. #202
    Hey guys, let's do it! The blue yonder awaits! Yahoo!
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Nice! I'm looking forward to read your report and decklist! Good luck and hopefully you will be victorious :-)

  3. #203

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I'm going super old school.

  4. #204

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    I'm going super old school.
    Do It!! I'm going to play mine in a small casual local tournament.

  5. #205

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    The build I'll be playing attacks opponents' hands more than anything else. I think in a combo-centric meta, hand disruption is an incredibly underrated aspect of controlling and winning games. With that being said, however, the route I'm taking is a bit less conventional and will probably raise more questions and eyebrows than dropping jaws and spinning heads.

    I also happen to believe that Pox - in any incarnation, budget or powered - is incredibly well-positioned in today's general meta. Have you guys seen what decks have been winning?

  6. #206

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    The build I'll be playing attacks opponents' hands more than anything else. I think in a combo-centric meta, hand disruption is an incredibly underrated aspect of controlling and winning games. With that being said, however, the route I'm taking is a bit less conventional and will probably raise more questions and eyebrows than dropping jaws and spinning heads.

    I also happen to believe that Pox - in any incarnation, budget or powered - is incredibly well-positioned in today's general meta. Have you guys seen what decks have been winning?
    I agree. I do well against combo with discard pox and the printing of shrieking affliction. I miss the extra land destruction but don't miss getting sinkhole dazed and wasteland stifled. As i said sneak and show running leyline of sanctity gives me pause so i'll be interested to see what you use and how you do. One of the rhings i love about pox is that since it is somewhat fringe there are many ways of approaching it as we can see from this thread which makes it a very interesting archetype.

  7. #207

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    For as much as I want to go the route of land destruction, I will be eschewing the targeting aspect of that in favor of ripping apart my opponents' life totals with The Rack. Obviously, land destruction in a deck with The Rack isn't overly effective, but I think it works just fine here. My version is really more semi-suicidal, which obviously has its merits and disadvantages. But this is more of an experiment than anything else, and the most important thing to realize here is that most people are hardly prepared to deal with Pox strategies these days.

    Because I am firmly going the mono-black route, I will be restoring the archetype to a more classic variation of the deck with more of the actual card Pox.

    I will also be trying out Oppression.

  8. #208

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Oh hell yeah. 3Mc. Great idea. That would work well in my 8x rack too. I wonder how i could fit it in. Good luck with that.

  9. #209
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Mono Black are almost always make a choise between LD-focused, with Nether Void main, or handdisruption, with the Rack as a 4 of, these days. Seeing as you are going to fit in Oppression I would drop LD almost altogether, making more space for hard handdisruption. With hard handdisruption I meaning also no Raven's Crime, which ask for Crucible or Loam. Also as a Wincon I would suggest three Cursed Scroll.

    That's all for now, got to run! Sure am eager to see your build!

  10. #210
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    In pushing High Tide specifically, one thing I do not want to go against is a mono black pox list that has an even heavier focus on discard than it already does, too much of it can rip your hand to nothing, then you never recover with a Liliana in play.

  11. #211

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    if the opponent doesn't side in grave hate i can make Raven's crime VERY annoying with the Shrieking afflictions in as well. And it is a small victory alone for them to waste side cards having to combat only 4 Raven's Crime and 1 Nether Spirit so they don't get screwed by it. During the usual grindy midgame with a Rack or Affliction or two in even with no Lilliana I just try and keep three black sources in play, ideally an Urborg a Factory and a Swamp. Sometimes if i have the luxury i lay down a fourth in case i need to pox. Otherwise any land I draw I get I just retrace it and they die to the racks and afflictions rather quick after that. If a Cursed Scroll is online too that is icing too. Perhaps I should add another scroll. 4 Duress are in the board just for a little extra speed and pain if necesary. I wonder how a singleton Oppression as Hollywood came up with would fit in. Bloodghast gone from this build now though I love him dearly.

  12. #212
    Darth Poxious, Lover de Liliana

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    Dystopia doesn't destroy permanents - it forces players to sacrifice permanents. Which is, coincidentally, very important. It also doesn't target, unlike The Abyss which does.

    Additionally, I like how you're all saying the cards sucks and to just play The Abyss when both are completely different in functionality from the other. One hits non-creature permanents, which is easily more of a problem for mono-colored decks than ones that opt to run green.

    The cost of Dystopia is also more attractive than the four-mana requirement for The Abyss in an attrition-based war, which is honestly much more prohibitive than playing Dystopia and paying three to five life over the course of three to five turns.
    The abyss doesn't exactly target either per se. The enemy chooses what to sacrifice. I found 2 excellent cards that do what they do for the same or less cmc.

    Instead of Dystopia, I ran Culling Scales in the board. Though it can't hit Leylines, I'm not concerned with them. Leylines aren't win cons. It does generate massive card advantage with Nether Spirit and can serve as a lock piece vs. decks that don't run 4+ cmc mana permanents.

    The Abyss < Tainted Aether. My friend beat my skull in time and again with Dredge. Token generating decks also don't care about Abyss. But anyone hit by Sinkhole that is creature based cries very bloody tears when I slam this turn 3 by Dark Rit or turn 4. On an enemy board that's stuck on 2 lands and 1 creature, it's auto win practically. I run cursed scrolls and factories so I'm not concerned.

  13. #213
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    Because I am firmly going the mono-black route, I will be restoring the archetype to a more classic variation of the deck with more of the actual card Pox.
    I will also be trying out Oppression.
    Should be good against Combo decks. I love playing the Rack; what are your thoughts on shriking affliction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    I'm going super old school.
    What Gypsy Pox with Bottomless Pit?
    I look forward to reading about how you do.


    Quote Originally Posted by OmniStrata View Post
    The Abyss < Tainted Aether.
    Funny how the same cards keep getting discussed. The Abyss kills one (non-artifact) creature each turn. Its only real weakness is you can not use it and Nether Void together as they are both World Enchantments. Tainted Aether does nothing to my Delver since I can sack my Island and keep hitting you with it every turn, it also does nothing if Delver (1 CMC) is already on the table...
    My Legacy Decks of choice: Pox, Miracles, D&T or Lands.
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  14. #214

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    The build I'll be playing attacks opponents' hands more than anything else. I think in a combo-centric meta, hand disruption is an incredibly underrated aspect of controlling and winning games. With that being said, however, the route I'm taking is a bit less conventional and will probably raise more questions and eyebrows than dropping jaws and spinning heads.

    I also happen to believe that Pox - in any incarnation, budget or powered - is incredibly well-positioned in today's general meta. Have you guys seen what decks have been winning?
    Personally I've found the exact opposite. Speaking in wild generalities; when there's lots of combo, rack + hand disruption is weaker. It's too easy for them to rip something off the top that you can't account for, or brainstorm to protect. Combo decks are also expecting hand disruption, and if they aren't set up to survive it they definitely address it in the board. Against combo I've had the best luck with more control (land destruction and trinisphere). Against agro/mid range is where I've had the most success with rack, where the hand disruption is supplemented with something like funeral charm that can pull double duty of either dealing with the bodies that hit the table or the cards let in their hand.

  15. #215

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    All great points to consider. I like discard pox rack and affliction because it kills them off faster than i was able to before , but cutting down on the sometimes ball crushing land destruction makes me very nervous. Like you say with such cheap decks around i would have to add trinisphere as well to make that more consistently useful.

  16. #216
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    +1

    Combo decks usually" go off" and up until then they can keep all their cards in hand. Creature based deck, otoh, need to play theiir creatures and spells because how else do they win?
    This plays into your plan.

  17. #217

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I know Reid Duke put a lot of work into doing well with Pox, and I can see why B/g would be a suitable choice. However, the madman in me wants to cremate my opponents' hands. I think the discard aspect of Pox is one of the founding strategies that made it so powerful.

    Oppression and Liliana are two very different beasts a Pox variant uses, for those wondering. Casting Dark Ritual turn one into Liliana against Storm really isn't nearly as spectacular as powering out an Oppression, which would by itself crucify fast combo - or any combo for that matter. Oppression punishes players for casting spells in the worst humanly way possible, which is why I like it so much. Cards like Chains of Mephistopheles punish players for drawing extra cards, which to me is rather meh. Spells are what progress the game state, and I think you definitely get more value out of something like Oppression than Chains for the simple fact that it alone will dictate how your opponent plays the rest of the game out.

    Casting spells is easily more common in a given game of Magic than drawing extra cards, which is why I like it so much.

    The land destruction aspect of Pox is nifty, but cards like Sinkhole and Wasteland have always concerned me in the mono-black variations of the archetype. I think punishing an opponent's hand and Racking them is far better than trying to win an attrition battle with either of those two cards. An early Deathrite Shaman is a perfect foil to both strategies, which is why I don't think they're necessary in the build I'm going for.

    And Cursed Scroll will definitely make it in as at least a three-of.
    Last edited by Michael Keller; 05-14-2013 at 08:19 PM.

  18. #218
    Darth Poxious, Lover de Liliana

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by lyracian View Post
    Funny how the same cards keep getting discussed. The Abyss kills one (non-artifact) creature each turn. Its only real weakness is you can not use it and Nether Void together as they are both World Enchantments. Tainted Aether does nothing to my Delver since I can sack my Island and keep hitting you with it every turn, it also does nothing if Delver (1 CMC) is already on the table...
    I have Liliana. If I need Tainted Aether to stop Delver, something's very wrong. I use it as a sideboard vs. very fast decks that attempt to drop multiple threats per turn. Liliana can't stop that but unless you're rushing me with Delver and 4 other creatures, Aether is still stronger. However it is true that it won't save you if there's already 3+ threats on the field, then again, neither will The Abyss.

    I also like that you'll sac your island. I'm assuming this is a threshold-like list? My Wastelands, Sinkholes, Smallpoxes and Poxes applaud your decision ^_^

  19. #219
    Darth Poxious, Lover de Liliana

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    ...
    Oppression and Liliana are two very different beasts a Pox variant, for those wondering. Casting Dark Ritual turn one into Liliana against Storm really isn't nearly as spectacular as powering out an Oppression, which would by itself crucify fast combo - or any combo for that matter. Oppression punishes players for casting spells in the worst humanly way possible, which is why I like it so much. Cards like Chains of Mephistopheles punish players for drawing extra cards, which to me is rather meh. Spells are what progress the game state, and I think you definitely get more value out of something like Oppression than Chains for the simple fact that it alone will dictate how your opponent plays the rest of the game out.

    Casting spells is easily more common in a given game of Magic than drawing extra cards, which is why I like it so much.

    The land destruction aspect of Pox is nifty, but cards like Sinkhole and Wasteland have always concerned me in the mono-black variations of the archetype. I think punishing an opponent's hand and Racking them is far better than trying to win an attrition battle with either of those two cards. An early Deathrite Shaman is a perfect foil to both strategies, which is why I don't think they're necessary in the build I'm going for.

    And Cursed Scroll will definitely make it in as at least a three-of.
    I run the Scroll as a 2-of. The 3rd one is a Pox for me. I don't believe the discard aspect of Pox is what made it so strong. Lots of black decks in the day had Duress + Hymn and that was already plenty. But I did attempt a discard heavy build with Rack and even squeezed in Funeral Charm, Raven's Crime, and Wrench Minds.

    The true strength in Pox has to be the massive card damage it deals. Letting your foes keep their lands means when they're in top deck mode, they'll simply cast their top decked spells and your discard becomes dead-draw. Foes stuck on 2 land or less may end up getting stuck if they also need mana for instants to cast at end of turn. Clogging the hand means your discard stays relevant.

    Some will argue "what's the point of your foe keeping spells they can't cast?" When they top deck that 1 land they need to recover, you'll really wish you made them discard that 'useless' spell of theirs 1 turn prior. Legacy lives and dies on "If only I 'X' that last turn!" One of the reasons why I like Pox. You deny them whole turns by casting it ^_^

  20. #220
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by OmniStrata View Post
    I also like that you'll sac your island. I'm assuming this is a threshold-like list? My Wastelands, Sinkholes, Smallpoxes and Poxes applaud your decision ^_^
    It would be a bit pointless to sac the creature. Counter-Burn and Carpet Bomb decks have plenty of counter magic to deal with your other spells however they can not win without a threat. Tainted Aether is not good at stop them; The Abyss, Ensnaring Bridge and even Nether Void are much better at stopping them.
    My Legacy Decks of choice: Pox, Miracles, D&T or Lands.
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