I think playing Sensei's Top and swamp fetch lands would greatly improve Pox gameplay.Originally Posted by coricho
It actually depends on the build. If you're focused on LD with Wastelands and you're using manlands, 1/3 of your mana base is used for something besides mana. Put fetchlands hitting your health and Smallpox, Pox, and what have you, you could find yourself low on HP and mana.
I did run 1-2 tops in one of my ancient builds in the old thread but found 3 problems.
1. I run big pox, losing HP, even in 1 and 2 life counts for things like Thoughtseize and fetchlands kills me faster than I'd like.
2. Less real land in the deck makes staying in the game with mana much harder.
3. That 1 mana to spin the top is really precious and without Ponder and Brainstorm, SDT actually becomes less effective.
on a minor note, I'd run out of targets for fetchlands in my build as I only have 13 swamps. If I ran 7-8 fetches, I'd only have 6-7 swamps. If you only ran four fetchlands, I don't think you'd squeeze enough value out of it. Again, this is from my personal experience with 50 games or so with SDT in the deck.
Hard Draw, like Bottled Cloister, Jace (if you're an Ocean Poxer I gues), or Phyrexian Arena + life draining spells would be more beneficial I think vs. fixing the top deck. My RUG Thresh deck had a counterbalance flavor a long time ago and BS + Ponder really makes that top epic.
If there are other ways to shuffle your deck without manlands I'm all ears. Ghost Quartering yourself btw is not a good idea.
Three Lilianas to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all and in the Sinkhole bind them!
The obvious dredge to clear the top Cards, entomb if you want to run it, crop rotation in green.It actually depends on the build. If you're focused on LD with Wastelands and you're using manlands, 1/3 of your mana base is used for something besides mana. Put fetchlands hitting your health and Smallpox, Pox, and what have you, you could find yourself low on HP and mana.
I did run 1-2 tops in one of my ancient builds in the old thread but found 3 problems.
1. I run big pox, losing HP, even in 1 and 2 life counts for things like Thoughtseize and fetchlands kills me faster than I'd like.
2. Less real land in the deck makes staying in the game with mana much harder.
3. That 1 mana to spin the top is really precious and without Ponder and Brainstorm, SDT actually becomes less effective.
on a minor note, I'd run out of targets for fetchlands in my build as I only have 13 swamps. If I ran 7-8 fetches, I'd only have 6-7 swamps. If you only ran four fetchlands, I don't think you'd squeeze enough value out of it. Again, this is from my personal experience with 50 games or so with SDT in the deck.
Hard Draw, like Bottled Cloister, Jace (if you're an Ocean Poxer I gues), or Phyrexian Arena + life draining spells would be more beneficial I think vs. fixing the top deck. My RUG Thresh deck had a counterbalance flavor a long time ago and BS + Ponder really makes that top epic.
If there are other ways to shuffle your deck without manlands I'm all ears. Ghost Quartering yourself btw is not a good idea.
I used to run2 tops in my GB pox bild and It was nice vs miracles and slower decks, but the second copy can also Lose you the game in some matches, I found running 1 has enough upside that you run it regardless of how inconsistent it is that you get it. I think I have about 70 games with 2 tops and a LOT more with just 1. However it wouldn't suprise me if you could go back and play more SDT in the more expected meta.
Outside Elves agro, the DTB has no fast weenie rush down at least in the traditional sense. Dakmor Salvage with SDT can definitely work if you don't mind the durdle.
I think Necroplasm might also make for an excellent Dredger as he nukes tokens at end of his battlefield entry. Too bad the new rulings won't allow him to nuke transformed creatures...
Three Lilianas to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all and in the Sinkhole bind them!
in the expected meta you still need to account for D&T which, while not explicitly aggressive, is very soft to many of the same tools that are used against aggressive decks (not as vulnerable in the mana base, multitude of x/1 and x/2 creatures to mop up, usually an ability to spiral out of your ability to reign it back in very quickly if you don't catch them on the front end, capable of ~2 or 3 angles of attack) so i'm inclined to at least throw it as a point. I'd also like to add that, while it isn't exclusively intended as an aggressive deck, any delver variant with pyromancer or basically any monastery mentor deck has similar tendencies to get out of board control capacity and start killing you remarkably quickly if you don't get on top of them in a similarly succinct manner. NoSB and EP aren't terrible in any of these matches, but i like having something a little more generic about telling all the creatures to get off the board, so I usually include a couple damnation, deluge, or my personal favorite, BSZ in the board anymore.
Great losses often bring only a numb shock. To truly plunge a victim into misery, you must overwhelm him with many small sufferings."
—Ratadrabik of Urborg
BSZ should be extra nice with top.
Against decks with Daze the casting cost is an disadvantage, however.
"Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux
I went 2-2 in yesterdays weekly tourney. I was basically beaten by fatigue since i have not slept well for a month.
I still have faith in my deck. Plague Spitter saw some action vs Monastery Mentor.
Hard to say if it is better than tomby in the long run. It was no problem running it in conjunction with Bloodghast.
Lands decks are still my biggest problem. Bloodmoon looks to be the best answer but given the cost i'll try other solutions first.
"Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux
If you have 6+ recurring threats, I highly suggest Contamination which is the superior B version of Blood moon. Even basics get screwed.I went 2-2 in yesterdays weekly tourney. I was basically beaten by fatigue since i have not slept well for a month.
I still have faith in my deck. Plague Spitter saw some action vs Monastery Mentor.
Hard to say if it is better than tomby in the long run. It was no problem running it in conjunction with Bloodghast.
Lands decks are still my biggest problem. Bloodmoon looks to be the best answer but given the cost i'll try other solutions first.
Three Lilianas to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all and in the Sinkhole bind them!
Yeah, but it does not change the land abilities. It would still be possible to create Marit Lage token.
"Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux
Diabolic Edict is pretty good against Marit Lage.
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Unless you're fighting lands combo all the time (maybe you are, I don't know your meta), being able to stop people who are not mono-B from playing magic AT ALL should be given more weight.
Are you fighting Marit Lage so often that you'd risk splashing red and gaining a less stable mana base? If so, forget what I stated.
On the other hand, you get your direct damage that Pox normally doesn't use which can kill planeswalkers. Other Poxers use The Rack or C. Scroll but R for 3 damage to Jace's dome is hot sauce.
Three Lilianas to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all and in the Sinkhole bind them!
In my experience, the surgical effects, the needles and dropping a chalice on two is usually enough that if you don't get unlucky, the matchup is very palatable. bring in 11, bring out 11, make their day miserable. if it's really important to you, you can turn the 4th (and maybe 3rd) E.Plague effect into the 4th needle and/or more surgical effects. the only cards I'd consider hitting with surgical are Dark Depths, K. Grip, Punishing Fire and (maybe) Loam. the rest you can beat through with enough persistence. You can also turn some number of creature sweepers into Ensnaring Bridge if the biggest problem is Mariat Lage.
Great losses often bring only a numb shock. To truly plunge a victim into misery, you must overwhelm him with many small sufferings."
—Ratadrabik of Urborg
I think this might be the correct route to take the deck. The reason I say that is that there is a ton of built in internal synergy in every card the deck plays...
Discard + Removal + Win Condition
4x Smallpox
4x Pox
4x Liliana of the Veil
Mana + Win Condition
0x Phyrexian Totem
4x Mishra's Factory
Pure Win Conditions
4x The Rack
4x Shrieking Affliction
Pure Discard
4x Raven's Crime
0x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Hymn to Tourach
Pure Removal
3x Innocent Blood
3x Noetic Scales
Mana
2x Dark Ritual
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
17x Swamp
By ensuring that so many cards in the deck can play multiple roles, the deck ends up having lots of versatility.
Total Number of Discard Spells - 20
Total Number of Removal Spells - 18
Total Number of Win Conditions - 12
Total Number of Mana Sources - 26
The Mana Curve is very smooth as well...
1cc - 17
2cc - 8
3cc - 8
4cc - 3
Price of progress.
"Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux
For four bloodmoons, how many red mans sources do i need?
"Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux
@Noetic Scales
Yesss my old fun deck with a lot of discards and Noetic Scales as board control :-) I also used Bottomless Pit as hard lock.
I am thinking of finding room for Midnight Charm in my 61. Kill Hexmage, pox Marit Lage.
Or tap Marit Lage to get a free swing for a turn. Maybe for lethal.
I do not know what to replace, however.
4 Bloodghast
3 tombstalker
4 nihilith
4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Pox
4 contagion
4 liliana of the veil
2 sensei's divining top
3 shrieking affliction
14 Swamp
4 bloodstained mire
3 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 wasteland
"Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux
to the four blood moon, you need 6-7 fetches (preferably 4 of which bloodstained), 1 badlands and preferably a mountain. the flip side is that if i'm adding red to pox i wanna play a small burning wish board and Devastating Dreams.
Great losses often bring only a numb shock. To truly plunge a victim into misery, you must overwhelm him with many small sufferings."
—Ratadrabik of Urborg
Tnx!
As for a wish board i think that is an idea. Anything costing double red would not be very viable however, imho.:-/
"Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux
Backlash looks like fun stuff against a few decks, like 12 post, sneak and show, Dark Depths etc.
"Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux
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