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Thread: [Primer/Deck] Pox

  1. #241
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    The problems are two: it is conditional because it need another card to function. (it is actually double conditional because it also require that the opponent have cards in his hand to discard).
    Second it says 'discard', not sacrifice, which would have made it better for us that run pox effects. Also: even if your opponent have no cards in hand he will have lands and creatures to sacrifice.

    Third: the effect is not only random for you, but the opponent have occasionally opportunity to choose what you well get; Liliana and the pox effects leave it to him to decide what to discard.

    Thus the card is triple crap, but it would all be OK if the card was renamed: "Goblin Necromancers revenge"

  2. #242
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    The conditions the card requires are many, but in Hybrid Pox, this thing could be downright devastating. Sinkhole/Wasteland builds will clog their hand up for Liliana to keep this card pumping the advantage. Hymn to Tourach?! May I draw 2 cards, gain BBBB, or gain 2 zombies (4 damage) OR ANY COMBINATION OF THESE 3?!

    The entire core of Pox is a different way to gain card advantage other than "Draw more then them" blue style.

    If this thing costed just B or BB, I'm sold. Would I run a playset? Probably? But WHY? IT SUCKS! The idea of gaining 4 damage worth of creature from a hymn to tourach or a Liliana + Inquisition setup would be too freakin' Godly for 2 cmc or less. This card rewards you by doing what Pox normally does AND can KILL your opponent.

    But if it's more than 2 cmc, then nope, I'd say quck it since the conditions to be met, as was mentioned, are stupidly high.

    What's kind of awesome is that your opponent decides how you will kill them. He's very likely going to want to keep his lands if you're the standard Pox deck (Sink/Waste). If he discards creatures, you'll simply murder him so he'll probably keep those (then Liliana makes him discard them or sac them when they see play). At best he'll probably throw away his removal since aside from Exile, your deck doesn't care. You'll draw more cards to disrupt him that much further. Hymn is king here.

    Liliana's Ultimate let's your opponent decide, does that make it terrible? Every enemy I've fought has never ever jumped for joy when I split their permanents and gave them a very nasty catch 22. One of my friends runs an old school Legacy MUC that plays Fact or Fiction. Nobody has ever split his cards in such a way that he's ever cursed under his breath. What's wrong with damned if you do/don't scenario?

    Oh would 2 of these on the field give me 4 zombies if I Hymned two creatures?

  3. #243

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I agree. Could be good if the cmc 'price' is right.

  4. #244
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Well, the best case scenario is always awesome.

    It occurred to me that you could playtest it already, Omnistrata. No need to wait until it is printed. Let us assume cc BB to start with. Should be interesting!

  5. #245

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Or try it with BB as well as with the more likely 1BB to see how much difference it makes. Anything more would be unplayable or a maybe one like tainted aether.

  6. #246
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post
    Well, the best case scenario is always awesome.
    It occurred to me that you could playtest it already, Omnistrata. No need to wait until it is printed. Let us assume cc BB to start with. Should be interesting!
    I thought about doing the same. However if turns out to be as good as I think it could be and then they print it at CMC 3 I would be gutted. In six months we should know what the card is going to be and then I would start play testing while waiting for it to be printed.

    Quote Originally Posted by OmniStrata View Post
    Oh would 2 of these on the field give me 4 zombies if I Hymned two creatures?
    Sure each one would trigger for each creature discarded.

    If Revenge is printed at BB then I am going to try replacing "The Rack" with it and see how that plays. Its only downside is that you then need the opponent to play creatures for it to actually act as a kill condition. I think the extra card draw against spell based decks should let you find your Cursed Scrolls, Mishra's, whatever in time to actually close out the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post
    The problems are two: it is conditional because it need another card to function. (it is actually double conditional because it also require that the opponent have cards in his hand to discard).Second it says 'discard', not sacrifice, which would have made it better for us that run pox effects. Also: even if your opponent have no cards in hand he will have lands and creatures to sacrifice.Third: the effect is not only random for you, but the opponent have occasionally opportunity to choose what you well get; Liliana and the pox effects leave it to him to decide what to discard.Thus the card is triple crap
    It may be random, but I do not think it is that random. Storm Decks are mostly spells; Jund/Maverick is mostly Creatures, once you know what your opponent is playing you can predict the most likely effect. If they discard lands they are playing into your game plan of resource denial and so long as you have other cards in hand you should be able to use that two black (sinkhole/hymn/smallpox) or even some of it (cursed scroll). "The Rack" works for winning the game so long as you can keep there hand empty which requires discard. Sure you can play discard then drop the rack and deal 6 damage before there hand is back up to three cards but "The Rack" does nothing if you can not get them below 3 cards. Revenge should help you establish a lock quicker and once you have a lock you build up card advantage through either Zombie Tokens or actual card draw for a win condition.
    My Legacy Decks of choice: Pox, Miracles, D&T or Lands.
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  7. #247
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Ahaa! More positive vibes, how nice :) I'm not going to playtest it, untill I know the cmc.

    It will be a long waot and hopefully worth it...

  8. #248

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    Yeah, I'll be providing the list after the tournament.

    I'm not saying my list is optimal by any means, but it absolutely wrecks combo - which is what I'm going for.
    How'd this go?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Full-House View Post
    MTG is a game 13+ (btw in cinematograph rating PG-13 allows nudity), while forum is open to anyone, and children under this age can see your picture and wonder how tezzeret is assosiated with anus and what is sexual t-rex means. Who knows where this path would take them? Are you responsible for their actions under the impression of your profile? I think no. You should be assamed.

  9. #249

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Revenge of Necromancy really depends on your list.

    If you are running the full x4 Liliana of the Veil (which is very doable as you discard extra to herself) and multiple Raven's Crime then even @ 2cc, it should be fine. However RoN @ 3+cc requires more constent discard for the "engine" to work.

    I do like how Revenge of Necromancy is both an engine (a very good one with creatures/cards > 50% of the time) and is also stackable unlike many other enchantments.

    I'm definitely keeping 'the Rack' in my list... I also run 2-3 'Shrieking Affliction' and skip the resource denial (Sinkhole/Nether Void) but of course keep Smallpox... and run Bloodghast.

  10. #250
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post
    Well, the best case scenario is always awesome.

    It occurred to me that you could playtest it already, Omnistrata. No need to wait until it is printed. Let us assume cc BB to start with. Should be interesting!
    The other posters stated it'd hurt like hell if we assumed a cmc and turned out wrong. One of my magic buddies has low hopes and thinks the card maybe overpriced garbage at about 4cmc. [shudder] Bloodchief Ascension and Liliana's Caress come to mind as having big drawbacks, low cmc, and moderately powered.

    The way I see it, if Wizards does print it that high, it'd be unplayable in Legacy save for dedicated slow slow counterspell decks that sit with as many cards in their hand as they can. (as if those exist lol)

    I think I won't count my chickens before they hatch and we'll all see. If it became 3 cmc, non-land destruction flavors of Pox probably couldn't run it unless they're hoping to rack / shrieking their foes into keeping cards in hand. Liliana's been the best thing to ever happen to Pox and probably never will be surpassed. But we can always hope to be wrong right? ^_^

  11. #251
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    What do people do against shardless BUG, enchantress and cloud post?
    I am thinking of reverting to a discard heavy contamination deck with ghast, crawler, geralf and bitterblossom.

  12. #252
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post
    What do people do against shardless BUG, enchantress and cloud post?
    I am thinking of reverting to a discard heavy contamination deck with ghast, crawler, geralf and bitterblossom.
    BUG: When I see that, I usually think of Team America and its variants. At 3 cmc, the enabler (agent) has to get past my Inqusition, Sinkhole, Wasteland plan. Preventing it from ever hitting the field stops its built in combo.

    Enchantress: I'm not liking game 1 vs. this thing, though only 1 of my friends runs it. Dystopia, Perish, Ratchet Bomb come to mind. Since it likes Enchanting Lands, Sinkhole/Wasteland plan rips it in half quite well. If it's enchanting its basic lands, Ghost Quarter will help a bit at least in killing the enchantment.

    Cloud post: My cloud post friends loves trying to win. Wasteland, Sinkhole, Smallpox, Pox won't let him keep a Cloudpost on the field.

    I've found that those decks that do Graveyard Dancing (Dredge, Crucible, Loam) would rather fight through Extirpate/Surgical Extraction and even Tormod's instead of my favorite: Leyline of the Void. Of course, I run Dark Rits to turn 2 cast them if necessary but as of yet, nothing beats it in mono-b Pox.

    There are no super effective Enchantment/Artifact based decks in Legacy so Pox is still quite strong. Well, at least my meta doesn't have them.

  13. #253

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I just got back from a small local 14 man tourny. I finished 2-2 with a pretty old school list. A deck we would all be proud to take to the shop and crush the life out of them as a good Pox deck does. Made some good plays and had some good luck. Made some bad plays and had some bad luck. I'll give a torney report if i have time later. But basically i beat Reanimator and Burn/Sligh and lost to a Punishing dark Maverick and a wierd strix/Jace/thopter control/combo deck. All i can say right now is "damn Chalice of the Void! Damn Chalice of the Void!" I feel I would have done quite well against those two decks maindecking Chalice (what a bad tourny draw for me huh?) But I had to fight through too much chalice to find out. But I guess that was part of thier plan. What do you guys do about Chalice? Btw 2 Sensei's Divining Top was fantastic for me. I'm all about them now.

  14. #254

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Omni, you are so right about Leyline of the Void. It came in very handy for me. It really hurt people and they often could do nothing about it. No Abrupt Decay to the rescue. Oh I love Leyline of the Void.

  15. #255
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    @OmniStrata,

    Thanks! Unfortunately the land destruction plan is too expensive to pursue. At least 300$+
    Mana denial, otoh, is a possibility. I am thinking Trinisphere and chalice mostly. Chalice for one would hit all the mentioned decks hard.
    I also have old school "disks", but that would be to defensive solution.

    Like this:
    4 bloodghast
    4 Tombstalker
    4 nihilith
    4 phyrexian negator

    4 smallpox
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    4 pox
    4 hymn to Tourach
    4 chalice of the void


    19 swamp
    2 dakmor salvage
    4 dark Ritual

  16. #256

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Here is the list I ran last night. I went away from the discard build back to more land destruction due to more Punishing/Grove shenanigans and the possibility of Knights fetching the now availible Dark Depths land combo. It seemed very solid, and it's faults were more with me than the deck, other than some too slow killing as it goes.

    Old School Pox

    1 nether spirit

    2 sensei's divining top
    2 cursed scroll
    2 Rack

    4 Pox
    4 Smallpox
    4 Lilliana
    4 hymn
    4 Inquisition
    4 innocent blood
    4 Sinkhole
    4 Dark Ritual

    4 wasteland
    3 Bojuka bog
    4 misha's factory
    3 urborg
    9 swamp

    4 pithng needle
    4 leyline of the void
    1 thoughtsieze
    1 thorn of amethyst
    1 spinning darkness
    4 engineered plague

    I know I have 62 in there, so suck it. I really need everything in there and the two tops filtering mote than makes up for adding the two of them. I have noticed no ill effects and very positive ones from the extra scroll and top, and the rack still won some games and I cant cut two win cons. What I really wish is two find two slots for a bloodghast and a cruciable of worlds.

    Not sure the singleton Thorn is really worth it. Considering replacing the Pithing Needles with Rachet Bombs.

    Match report upcoming soon.

  17. #257

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    @Hardcore. Chalice is very solid in the meta at this time as evidenced by how much of it I ran into and how much of a pain in the ass they were.

  18. #258
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I figure that too; it is a fast format which means lots of cheap spells and creatures.

    If you run into chalice you need to adapt. Top, scroll and rack are fine, but they can be replaced.

  19. #259

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I was a mediocre 2-2 but I still feel good about the deck.

    Game one vs Reanimator. I make a pretty boneheaded move and you just have to play everything perfect against Reanimator. I have an inquisition, dark rit and Lilliana opening. I play inq first in case he has Force vs Lilly. I will play her second turn. He does have a Force! And Show and Tell. And a couple of Reanimates. No fatties or ways to get them in the grave. I take the Show and Tell in case he draws a fatty and lays down that third land. Only then I noticed there was a second Dark Ritual hiding behind the first. I could have Inquisitioned AND played Liliana to lock him out on the first turn. Oh well, I'll do it next turn. He has jack in his hand and what are the chances he'll topdeck Entoumb? He topdecks Entomb. Drops Iona.

    The next two were owned by Leyline of the void. If he had any Vapors in his deck I never saw one. I did have difficulty closing one game out long enough that he almost hardcast Iona, but Lilliana's ultimate assured that never happened.

    The next match vs Burn was one I felt resigned to lose to it's speed and my slowness. It didnt happen. First game he drops a mountain and a Lavamancer. I Dark Ritual into Big Pox a little fearful of getting into quick burn range. But he never recovers from that heavy first loss and I draw a couple of sinkholes and a smallpox and he sits with no hand, no lands, no creatures and gets pinged a few times for the loss. Side out big pox for the lifeloss anyway.
    The second game he drops 3 Goblin Guides and two Lavamancers in a few opening turns and it is much too fast for me.
    The third game we each are below 10 life but I end up with Liliana, Top,Scroll and Factory controling it out for the win.

    And here the Chalice horror story unfolds. He begins on the play and drops a turn one Chalice on me. Wins easily. I shut out a lot of his graveyard and Knight/punishing grove/Loam the second game and it gets very grindy with match control switching a few times. And him hating my Leyline.But he pulls it out in the end. His deck ends up winning the tournament.

    2-1

    In consolation I get to play another Chalice on the play deck. Yea! I have enough land destruction to keep him off his Jaces and Tezeret s for the most part but can't fight through Chalices and counters and recurring Thopter tokens. I have one perfect pox game but he wins the two Chalice games.

    So..Ratchet Bombs for Pithing Needle?

  20. #260
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    first off, i love pox in general cause of the style of play it entails. This is just a rough draft but i think with the new rules changes this might be viable. Since depths combo can get around nether void playing 4 nether voids main seems like its not a bad idea. Also, I was thinking if there was a way to play loam in this. Loam seems so powerful even as a 2 of or something. I didn't include it in this list however cause the mana base is already shaky and it runs crucible. if you are playing nether void try to void casting things. also with the uprise of deathrite shaman i think loam is less effective than crucible.





    35 cards

    4 chalice of the void
    4 mox diamond
    4 vampire hexmage
    3 liliana of the veil
    4 sinkhole
    4 small pox
    4 pox
    4 nether void
    1 the abyss
    3 crucible of worlds


    25 lands

    4 wasteland
    4 urborb tomb of yawgmoth
    6 swamp
    2 mishras factory
    4 thespian stage
    4 dark depths

    Play 4 Card Blind!

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