Dark Depths. Enough said.
Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi
"Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux
They also ran stifle and flusterstorm for sideboard.
The obvious upside with jace, vryn's prodigy is that he doesn't die when flipped to smallpox
I found this interesting little card Runeflare trap.
In BR Chalice build against Miracles, perhaps. It dodges both counterbalance and my own chalice. Trigger when the opponent plays his Jace.
"Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux
Who is they? This UB pox list sounds awesome!!
During the Cruise era I was messing around with U/B pox for Snapcaster, Stifle, Daze, and Treasure Cruise. It was one of the most fun decks I've ever played in my entire magic career.
I toyed with a list on this forum last year, I loved the snapcaster sinkhole plan, and the interaction with cabal therapy. I made a play of snapcaster, target smallpox, flash back cabal therapy sacking snapcaster then flashback smallpox. I think it could be better now that flip jace is a thing, another way to replay smallpox and sinkholes is brutal.
I do not know what list is being discussed, mine was never posted for any events I played in.
Seems like some very cool plays. Is there a card in black that can be abused with Jace minus ability since its not technically "flashback"? For example, can cast invigorate for alternate cost out of the graveyard with a Jace minus.
Since U/B Pox is being discussed, I saw this online recently - http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=12272&d=270714&f=LE
I saw that list. I don't know if I like calling it pox just because it runs smallpox out of the board. I definitely think the smallpox could have been in the main. Force could probably come out of the board vs fast combo which we have a fair match up against already if we can fire off discard.
Even the spell pierce and dismember or black sun's zenith could be the 4 Smallpox
True, we shouldn't be discussing builds without Pox spells in the main. Then the thread would lose all meaning...
Three Lilianas to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all and in the Sinkhole bind them!
Fair enough sarcasm. It could be a great starting point to making something UB pox.
Are you serious? Obviously, anyone posting here has some affinity for the namesake card, but decks evolve over time. a UB prison / resource denial deck would still belong here IMO. Its running Sinkhole main!!! Any sinkhole deck belongs here.True, we shouldn't be discussing builds without Pox spells in the main. Then the thread would lose all meaning...
His comment was sarcasm.
My main issue with the deck is the fact that it has a delver style to it and should likely be running delver. In which case it should be in the delver thread. There are certainly things we could take from it though.
Things I like in that list provided by running blue
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver - mills out and takes opponents creatures
Stifle - Great form of mana denial
Brainstorm - Good card selection spell to help smooth the road to victory
Snapcaster Mage - Buy back stifle, sinkhole, etc
Things I don't like
Spell pierce - Really more for dedicated tempo strategies that want to close a game quick and can't really fight a long fight, not great with liliana
Force of Will - Card disadvantage, again not great alongside liliana
For the cards I don't like I would love to see hymn to tourach or smallpox in the main as they play to our game plan much better and don't require being held for a reactive game plan.
A local at my legacy tournament in Stockholm, with a great love for land destruction. I could ask him for a list but from what I know he doesn't hang around the forums so other then his real name which I won't tellI can't tell more for the moment, met him yesterday in the tourney and he's still brewing all kind of things.
UB is fine. If it wins or doesn't win, as long as it's got Pox as the theme, it's fine. When it's in the sideboard, that means Pox isn't the main theme anymore. If people are going to start posting decks with no Smallpox, or Poxes in it, then again, shouldn't it be in another thread?
How can we discuss improving a deck based on Poxing when we remove the namesake card?
Claymore mentioned a "Poxless" pox deck and that made me cringe, but it had 4 Smallpox and no Big Pox. That's still a Pox deck cause the overall goal of card advantage through symmetrical sacrificing is there.
Frankly, if you can pull off a Death Cloud deck, it would be 'similar' to Pox but who'd run Death Cloud over Smallpox given the cmc?
I think the reason why U doesn't work with Pox is that the color's advantages cancel each other out. Pox wants to hit top deck but doesn't want to draw excess cards. Brainstorm doesn't help you 'recover' from a Smallpox and doesn't disrupt our enemy in any way shape or form. The only trick idea I liked was Shadow of Doubt but mono-B can run it anyway. I pitched a CounterBalance idea but a Counter Balanced Pox would end up defeating itself due to two different card advantage mechanics causing a lack of deck focus.
Three Lilianas to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all and in the Sinkhole bind them!
After doing some quick checking, some B/U cards for a milling focus on Pox may work:
Mind Funeral: for a deck hellbent on blowing up and denying mana, this maybe the most stupidly powerful card ever... Backed by Extirpating fetchlands and non-basics, this could be quite anger-inducing.
Mind Grind: a worse version of Funeral, but probably fatal late game backed by Dark Rituals.
Paranoid Delusions: since it's not an enchantment, could it be used on say, a Mishra's Factory? That'd be goofy, but not efficient I'm sure.
Lim Dul's Vault: combo Pox?
Glimpse the Unthinkable: right before Mind Funerals...
Dream Salvage: Draw extra cards using Liliana's +1?
Diabolic Vision: Probably not good since it's a 5 card version of Brainstorm for slower speed and 2x cmc.
Consult the Necrosages: seems like great utility.
I'd consider running Nemesis of Reason cause of how epic the flavor and feel of the card is, but not as a 4 of obviously.
Problem is getting the Underground Seas and corresponding fetches. I myself can't build this deck but this could be a great starting point for some that want something different.
Three Lilianas to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all and in the Sinkhole bind them!
Mind funeral would be great against belcher if you can take a turn and power it out with dark ritual.
Not sure about the other options as far as competitive. I know my shardless pox build is sweet but it runs life from the loam as well as brainstorm and ancestral. It's quite a different animal though
If I was playing UB pox I would certainly not play cards like Force of Will or Spell Pierce. Things I envision blue offering:
JTMS - Do I need to say anything?
Snapcaster Mage - I would only run him if I was also playing therapy, as snapcaster mage + innocent blood / smallpox is quite a nonbo.
Flip Jace - provides filtering effect on the front and CA on the back. Only problem is he may turn on game 1 removal from an opponent
Brainstorm/Ponder. Ponder seems like a perfect card when we get into top deck mode.
Stifle - Great compliment to LD element
Visions - Question is, is this card good enough without cascaders
I agree very much with your accessment.
With regards to visions I think it fits perfect for us. If we suspend turn 1 we get the value turn 5. Right about the time we generally have played out our hand and are ready to go with some new fresh cards so long as we have a way to draw them. Likely too slow vs fast combo but open up an easy 4 slots for boarding.
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