I think the third bridge is fine, since it actually takes the fourth gy hate slot. Most gy centric decks kill through combat, and the third bridge happens to also be reasonable vs D&T, sneak and show, eldrazi, and lands to name a few. I also don't like the entomb. I think you seriously consider the fourth rit, based on how many potent 3drops you have, the fourth hymn, or the third scroll.
Great losses often bring only a numb shock. To truly plunge a victim into misery, you must overwhelm him with many small sufferings."
—Ratadrabik of Urborg
I'll see how rit does in the deck. Honestly it already runs smooth as it is. I've thought about mainboarding one copy of [/cards]Chains of Mephistopheles[/cards] which would open a slot in the sideboard. Lots of decks running extra card draw between "Anything & [Plug in blue], sylvan library, griselbrand, ect. Not sure what to plug into the sideboard ATM. collective brutality seems a fair choice, but not for a sideboard slot, which means hold Chains in the side and main deck Brutality.
I play monoblack as well, and it is really upsetting to lose against unexperienced burn players. Just try to get heavy discard early since they have no card advantage engine. Otherwise, it is difficult to stabilize against them. Nether Void is great with Cursed Scroll or Mishra's factory on the field. But also make sure you can continue to disrupt their hand as they begin to draw out of the early discard. Not having Dark Rituals in my list is the one thing I miss against burn, because you do need to be explosive against it.Originally Posted by ntropy
Legacy
&
Vintage
nether void is fantastic fo a deck like this but it's important to remember that it effects you as well. If you plan to go that route, ensure your average CMC is low or you won't play anything for a long time. I run two copies mainboard with 4 copies of sinkhole just to make sure they don't gain enough land on the field to pay 4-5 mana for their one and two drops.
Hey all:
Pox has been my pet deck for a long time. It feels to me like mono black may be the most consistent approach, with b/g having the best results given the build and the appropriate meta.
I've dabbled with b/w build to moderate success. It's a great built because it really pushes the perfect victory line (no cards, no permanents for your opponent) but it feels like you are always fighting an uphill battle tapping out for 3 cmc spells.
What do you all think is best? What do you prefer?
Finally, have any of you given any thought to these builds?
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=74021
Or
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=75964
Or
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=92091
Sometimes it feels like with mono black and b/g we reached the max potential with those builds and they prove to be not quite good enough and leave a lot of room for your opponent to wiggle free. I wonder if it's possible to build a new gen smallpox deck?
An initial idea, with very little thought besides thematic structure :
4 Smallpox
4 Stifle
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Sinkhole
3 Predict
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Innocent Blood
2 Toxic Deluge
4 Wasteland
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
Swamps
Islands
Maybe darkslick shores
Maybe Watery Grave
Just an initial thought.
I feel like any Pox list running blue should run Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver over Jace, the Mind Sculptor ...
But ashiok, nightmare weaver is mill, not control or disruption. jace, the mind sculptor is disruption and control.
So you manage to mill a person who has a creature meant to control and disrupt, and raise it from the grave...several turns later....never mind I can't finish this thought.
In the scenario where we run a blue list, I think jace serves a lot of important purposes. Card advantage (per Reid Duke, all control decks need this), inevitability, and the fatesealing effect.
Pox often loses the top deck war, especially to jace.
Would anyone card to shoot an idea out there in the ub or bug vein?
I got that. My post was more about how weaver is just bad for Pox compared to jace
My bad, should have replied to the guy above you.
Still, if you had to build under the blue-black pox constraints, which direction would you go?
Jace is of course a great planeswalker, but I feel hes just too slow at 4cmc.
Ashiok is another form of resource denial, especially in top deck mode you are getting three cards and she is very hard to kill besides Abrupt Decay.
Hey all, I updated my list a little: I cut the shadow of Doubt, toxic deluge, and night of Soul's Betrayal from the main for 3 more big Pox, and I cut the perish, toxic deluge, delerium skeins, and one trinisphere from the board for 4 The Rack.
I played in a 16 person event with it, and had a lot of fun. I beat Miracles, High Tide, Reanimator, then lost to grixis Delver somehow in the finals.
I think cutting all of my sweepers was a mistake, I wanted a deluge or nosb pretty bad vs Delver. Casting multiple Pox per game is huge though. I have re-tweaked by cutting 2 pox for the deluge and Nosb, and cutting one rack for a deluge in the side. I'm excited to run it back again!
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Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
I do think the rack is very good in pox. Planeswalkers being one of the biggest issues the deck has, the redirect angle with the rack is pretty great. The other issue is swarms, so it seems like having board sweeper is pretty important. I'm a big fan of both night and deluge, not a big fan of pox, but kudos for doing so well and playing the original namesake of the deck.
the rack works with pox nicely actually. Most of us will play cursed scroll instead because it options for doing 2 damage to target creature, just in case you can't force them to sac it. I've not had an issue with big creatures hitting the field when playing pox. Its usually that 1-2 cheap creature(s) that got dropped during the game which is why cursed scroll is loved over the rack.
Im not a fan of Night of Souls' betrayal. Most decks will play key component creatures that are human that have a 1-2 offense and defense point. engineered plague does the same job, cheaper, and takes care of tribal.
Toxic Deluge I have found to be very useful. I run 2 copies mainboard along side of 1 copy of black sun's zenith. Yep Im that guy.
In the debate over deluge I can say that damnation cost to much to be of any help most of the time and we need a board wipe that can effectively deal with overrunning, which in the case of Pox can happen at only 2 creatures if the opponent plays correctly. ratchet bomb is also just to slow for an "Oh S***" moment, but great if you have time for set up. nevinyrral's disk in so many ways is worse than damnation because is cost 5 mana to set up and pop vs 4 to cast. With this being said I know other Pox players mention the life lose that [/cards]toxic deluge[/cards] is not something they are willing to take, but they are willing to play snuff out at 4 life to kill one creature instead of 4 life to kill all creatures. The argument comes down to paying mana. Free vs paying 3...or at least one [cards]dark ritual[/card] that they should be main boarding anyway. In the end emrakul, the aeons torn, progenitus, griselbrand, and Iona, shield of emeria, [*Insert tribal], and [*Insert fast ramp winnie deck] don't really care about your 1 copy of snuff out in the entire main and side board of the pox deck.
Pox got traded out as soon as liliana of the veil was on the scene. It still holds a perfect place for those who can't dish out $100 for a single copy of Lilly when compared to it's own price around $3. It is not a game winner but very fun game changer. As an addition to the deck already running Lilly I have nothing to say because I've not done it myself and I've not seen anyone else do so. I have heard good things about it, but many people hear many things said.
I forgot about the Planeswalker interaction! Even better! I like night of Soul's Betrayal because there is a lot of BUG and infect in my meta, which do not have common creature types, and BUG runs abrupt decay. Vs grixis Delver, death and taxes, elves, or empty the Warrens, of course plague is better. I run a night main and 2 plagues in the side. I like big Pox because it is soo impactful. It often takes out 4 or more cards, second only to toxic deluge. 4 was perhaps too many, but it can really clamp down a game when you're ahead, as well as equalize when you're behind. It does compete for the 3 slot, but I love it. It also feels great when your opponent has to read it twice, and is still surprised upon resolution.
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Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
Regarding the Burn MU I want to add that playing the BW version of the deck, I had good results playing Gerrard's Verdict as - if you actually hit 2 cards - you most likely prevent 6 damage form being done / gain 6 life.
You gain life for lands discarded. That is not very likely against a burn deck.
Still in that match up it is a fifth Hymn to Tourach which is very useful.
"Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux
Neat. I haven't had to think about the burn matchup in ages, since my loam pox build ran chalice main. I didn't play pox this week at the lgs, I like to give them a break occasionally, but for now I've settled on clocking with the rack and living with trinisphere, at least until I get me some collective brutalities.
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Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
So, I actually got to play at legacy last night. Ran 3-0, had a blast.
Round 1, knight fall 2-0. Game 1, on the play, turn 1 blossom, turn 2 he used his spell pierce on my sinkhole, turn three I played the abyss, and found a decay and a Liliana to clean up the two creature turns while a faerie and a pair of factories clocked in. Game 2, I got to play the hymns and smallpoxes and sinkhole to force him into some really bad over committing into a bsz followed by Liliana+cursed scroll.
Round 2 Izzet painted stone 2-1 game 1 was really intricate, he found a bridge to keep blossom from killing him, and managed to kill the cursed scroll I was riding at 2 life. He got a welder on line to assemble painted stone, and the next card was a decay for the bridge. Game two he mulled to five and I had turn 1 hymn you, turn two Liliana, turn 3 I drop a scroll and my hand is a pair of smallpoxes. Game three he keeps a greedy hand (one land, top, opal, welder, grindstone, reb, painter) and I wasteland his volc out from under him, needle his welder, and he doesn't find another land until I have Lili veil at 8 loyalty.
Round 3 shardless (2-1) game one he suspends a pair of ancestral on turn 3, and I manage to ride a Liliana, a cursed scroll, and a pair of abrupt decays to getting him back to zero resources. Game two, I misplay around forcing the top-Deck war and die to the third tarmogoyf. Game three is a surgical dance around each of us drawing two pithing needles (his name wasteland and Lili veil, mine name Drs and jace the sculptor) and me riding a pair of smallpoxes and a bitterblossom.
1 bayou
1 cabal pit
1 Forest
2 marsh flats
4 Mishra's factory
4 swamp
1 the tabernacle at pendrell vale
3 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 verdant catacomb
4 wasteland
1 nether spirit
4 abrupt decay
2 bitterblossom
1 crucible of worlds
2 cursed scroll
1 grim tutor
4 hymn to tourach
4 Liliana of the veil
2 mox diamond
2 nether void
3 sinkhole
4 smallpox
1 the abyss
4 thoughtseize
2 black sun's zenith
2 ensnaring bridge (1 is normally a chains, but we only had 1 storm and 1 shardless, with two eldrazi, a knight fall and a mud)
2 extirpate
1 Liliana, the last hope
1 night of soul's betrayal
1 Ob nixilis, reignited
3 pithing needle
3 surgical extraction
Great losses often bring only a numb shock. To truly plunge a victim into misery, you must overwhelm him with many small sufferings."
—Ratadrabik of Urborg
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