In general. I'm getting used to the metagame at the lgs, and its chock full of grixis delver and other greedy mana bases. Ironically, contamination shuts off red stompy decks because they can't get red mana (besides ssg.)Originally Posted by Megadeus
Bitterblossom the turn before contamination sets up a really solid lock.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
I really like this list. My one gripe would be that you don't have a way of dealing with Tombstalker and Nether Spirit both being in the graveyard. Maybe a copy of Murderous Cut, Spinning Darkness, or a second Tomby? I know that those situations are rare, but I hate leaving myself with no outs to a situation when Pox games can go so long. How has 3x Liliana felt to you?
There are 2 contamination approaches to make it work. Bitterblossom works fine as long as you have an HP surplus. If you're HP is getting hammered, it fails. The other one, which I used before and advocate is the triple Crucible / Nether Spirit approach, from the ancient times.
My current build can't support it but I've found 2 Crucibles, 4 Mishra's Factory, 3 Nether Spirit, and some delving spell like either Murderous Cut or Spinning Darkness or Tombstalker for managing the graveyard to be workable. For enemy sideboards without Leyline of the Void, it's the boobs...
Three Lilianas to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all and in the Sinkhole bind them!
Same land count or less than many pox decks. Many lists without fetches and Bloodghast- that synergy is minimal advantage for life loss, there is no need for shuffling- and there is only one ghast... discard I like- scarab is a win con- I can already handle creature removal. Surgicals in board will do fine for combo w/discard and I'm not worried about reanimator nor lands. If I get dredged whatever. I'm worried about storm. I've played pox plenty and this foundation does well for me. Just been waiting on another kill con like this scarab card.
Tusk Up
Why would you need multiple crucible for nether spirit/contamination? I could see crucible being super important for bloodghast, but nether spirit just comes back.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Crucibles tend to get nuked, that and you want to draw it asap for combo purposes. Crucible works with both Bloodghast and Mishra's Factory to feed Contamination. Extra Nether Spirits just mean you can draw and discard him to Liliana or Poxes or just sac him repeatedly. Running 4 Nether Spirits is definitely too many but in a meta where creatures get sent to plow fields never to be heard from again, 3 Nether Spirits is the borderline cause when I fight, I always lose one to the damn farm......he does farm me 2 health but damn it all...
Another piece you could consider for the old school setup would be Dimir Machinations to grab your pieces. That or ruin your enemy's next 3 turns.
Three Lilianas to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all and in the Sinkhole bind them!
I would play 2-3 nether spirit and 4x bitterblossom. Bloodghast needs landfall triggers, spirit does not.Crucibles tend to get nuked, that and you want to draw it asap for combo purposes. Crucible works with both Bloodghast and Mishra's Factory to feed Contamination. Extra Nether Spirits just mean you can draw and discard him to Liliana or Poxes or just sac him repeatedly. Running 4 Nether Spirits is definitely too many but in a meta where creatures get sent to plow fields never to be heard from again, 3 Nether Spirits is the borderline cause when I fight, I always lose one to the damn farm...
Another piece you could consider for the old school setup would be Dimir Machinations to grab your pieces. That or ruin your enemy's next 3 turns.
Tested contamination a little...its a sideboard card. It does nothing when you're behind on board. Also, I dropped all Innocent Blood for Fatal Push.
And collective brutality is the stone cold nuts. Testing 2 at the moment, could see up to 3. I was skeptical I admit, and I couldn't change my deck so close to the event, but wow. Great card.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
And you can imagine how insane Collective Brutality is with Life From the Loam and a bunch of Bloodghasts. You get all three modes early and often discarding lands. Makes a nice counterpart to the three modes of Smallpox. It's all fun and games until Surgical Extraction comes out to play, which is why I am experimenting again with removing Entomb and Crop Rotation in favor of Chalice of the Void.
Last edited by beez; 07-07-2017 at 07:08 PM.
I started 7-1 at GP Vegas with it.
Collective Brutality is amazing, I am up to 4 total, 3 main, 1 sideboard. Bloodghast, , Nether Spirit, , Life from the Loam, , Cabal Therapy, and extra lands make it so I almost never don't escalate. Life gain is hugely relavent again Burn obviously but also Marit Lage, going above 20 life allows sorcercy speed cards to answer the token.
One thing to watch out for in the GB pox is that Sanctum Prelate on 2 is tough to deal with, Cabal Pit and Pernicious Deed are my best answers.
tombstalker/nether spirt non-bo:
i agree, its true that it would suck if that happens; but you're also correct when you said that those situations are rare, in fact it has never caused me any inconvenience the entire tourney..though actually after the tournament, i've added a second tombstalker in the main and relegated the crucible of worlds in the sideboard..the inclusion of the second tombstalker is to help me close out games quicker, more-so than using it's delve ability to prevent nether spirit from getting stuck in the yard..
3 copies of liliana:
many are convinced that she is a must 4-of, and they are probably right..i would say 3 copies is fine, though i strongly disagree with going lower than that..i could've borrowed a 4th copy from a friend but my reason for running only three is because i want extra slots so i could run ratchet bombs in the main, its inclusion is a personal meta-call, i predicted that there would be a lot of fair decks like bug and DnT after miracles got neutered post top banning and i wanted to have a high win-percentage game 1 against fair decks which explains the high concentration of removal spells in the main, especially those that could possibly kill multiple threats at once(2 ratchet bombs, 2 night of soul's betrayal and 1 toxic deluge alongside the 3 innocent bloods)...i brought that build to the field with the acceptance that i would probably lose to combo game 1..the ratchet bombs really performed the way i wanted it to, against the decks i expected it to be effective..
i haven't ran the deck in months because i consistently lose to miracles, but after the banning of top, fair decks seems to have gotten popular again and i strongly felt that we are in a good position in the meta..its also good to note that the most popular build of bug seems to be the leovold build, any creatures with 3 cmc is exactly the kind of demographics that pox preys upon..it was a problem for us(especially mono black pilots) when the more popular bug builds are the ones that run ancestral visions, but it seems to have declined in popularity and i like that..
here's what transpired at the tourney:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16098&d=299201&f=LE
round 1 leovold bug: (win)
in game 1, i just drew disruption after disruption..i think i was able to reduce him to 0 lands and 0 creatures while we were both hellbent..i think i won by factory beats..game 2, he beat me down with a goyf..nether spirit was able to hold it off for several turns until a DRS ate it while it was in the graveyard..game 3 seemed very one-sided, i think i opened with something like a dark ritual, an IOK and a hymn..on my 2nd turn i think i sinkholed the land he played..3rd turn i think i wasted his land..4th turn, i resolved a tombstalker..kudos to this guy, very polite and friendly during the match, plus his deck was sweet, i was always very careful when cutting his deck and i kept complimenting him on those minty mint beta duals, and foreign goys and lilis, etc.. (2-1)
round 2: aluren (win)
i won game 1 without actually finding out what he was on, its just one of those lopsided games..but i destroyed an underground sea and a bayou i think, so i thought i was playing against bug again..it wasn't until game 2 that i found out he was on aluren after he cast cavern harpy..i opted to keep his from reaching 4 lands to keep his from casting aluren..i am very unfamiliar with this match, i won both games, but i think i need to review and practice playing against this deck more in case it starts showing up more often, though with all the disruption and removal that we are packing, matchup feels like its in our favor.. (2-0)
round 3: bug delver (win)
i honestly can't remember what happened in this game, i can't even remember the person i played against..i try as hard as i could to recall but i just have zero recollection of this match..must have been the few shots of brandy i've had after the aluren match, i usually have a flask of brandy and a couple of cans of beer in my backpack when i go to my LGS, helps me relax.. (2-0)
round 4: DnT (win)
i knew what he was on before the match because he's a regular at the shop, i felt confident entering this match because i tailored the deck in such a way to beat fair decks like this..game 1 i won the die roll, i IOK'ed vial..on his turn, he plays a land and says go..on my turn i ritualed to a double hymn and he never recovered from there, later i resolved a night of soul's betrayal and soon the game was over..game 2 was looong and grindy, i had 2 engineered plagues on humans and a NoSB on the battlefield and he has a needle on my factory and cursed scroll..he was down to 2 life..i ultimated lili putting all of his land, equipment, etc. on one side and the lone needle(that was on cursed scroll) on the other side; he was forced to sac all his permanents otherwise he would auto-lose to the cursed scroll if he gets rid of it.. (2-0)
round 5: burn (draw)
i was able to hold off 2 consecutive goblin guides with innocent bloods, but a resolved sulfuric vortex sealed the deal for me after several turns..on game 2, i ritualed out a trinisphere on turn 1, followed by sinkholes, smallpoxes, etc..he never resolved a single spell on game 2..on game 3, i heard someone say that even if i lose, i'd still qualify for top 8, but if the guy wins, he qualifies for top 8..i was feeling a little generous so i conceded the match.. (draw)
round 6: infect (draw)
the guy(who would later end up winning the tourney) said we're both locked in for top 8 no matter who wins so we just agreed to a draw.. (draw)
i cracked open some beers from my backpack and had some sandwiches while i chatted with a friend since i've a lotta time to spare..
round: 7: eldrazi (win)
this is where the ratchet bombs really shone, they really pulled their weight in both games..it was able to get rid of chalices, endless ones and lotus petals..in game 2, he resolved a chalice on (1)..luckily i already had a cursed scroll in play..i would cast my 1 cmc spells to purposely get them countered by chalice so the scroll would be more effective..he resolved a smasher, i couldn't innocent blood it because of the chalice, i topdecked a ratchet bomb then saccing it with 0 counters to destroy the chalice, allowing me to cast the IB to kill the smasher..i really enjoyed this match, very close and so exciting.. (2-0)
round 8: 4-color delver (win)
i've always felt comfortable playing against decks with greedy mana-bases when i'm on pox..sinkhole, wasteland smallpox!! playing against it felt like playing against grixis delver, except that they don't go wide like grixis does with its pyromancer tokens.. (2-0)
round 9: infect (lost)
this is my first time to lose twice against infect in a tournament..in both games, the deciding factor was sylvan library..he drew it in both games and he just buried me in card advantage..i almost got him under control in both games, reducing him to 1 land but the library allowed him to bounce right back and recover to kill me..i would like to play against infect again.. (0-2)
bring your poxes to tourneys, its a good time for us..
sorry for the long post..
I am in love with both Brutality and Bitterblossom. I have won games with Bitterblossom I had no business winning. I would stall out on lands, or draw too many, and BB just keeps on putting on pressure. It seems really solid. Current list (would like to get one more Brutality in there, maybe dropping a Therapy for it would be good.)
2x Nether Spirit
4x Bitterblossom
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Cabal Therapy
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Smallpox
2x Ratchet Bomb
3x Fatal Push
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Pox
1x Crucible of Worlds
3x Dark Ritual
2x Collective Brutality
4x Wasteland
4x Mishra's Factory
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
8x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs (for Fatal Push support, possible bloodghast sub for Nether Spirit)
Sideboard
3x Engineered Plague
2x Pithing Needle
3x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Lost Legacy
2x Surgical Extraction
3x Contamination
Last edited by Mr. Safety; 07-10-2017 at 03:26 PM.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
So as I'm finishing up my mono-black pox list I've been brainstorming (haha) a GB loam pox list to build next. i personally prefer the mono-black list more because of its consistency and explosiveness, but I wanted to try it out. This is the barebones lists I've been brewing recently.
Creatures 3
3 Bloodghast
Spells 19
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Life from the Loam
Enchantments 2
1 Nether Void
1 Sylvan Library
Artifacts 8
4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
Planeswalkers 4
4 Liliana of the Veil
Lands 25
4 Wasteland
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Cabal Pit
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Barren Moor
"The enemy is getting too close! Quick! Inflate the toad!"
DnT is a pain in the ass. I couldn't believe they gave them Prelate too.
I would think you would want at least 3 Collective Brutality with Loam. I've typically had a list close to jredelstein but always have some alternate versions to test. I'm maxing out on the Loam, Chalice, Bloodghast and Collective Brutality with this one. I usually side out 1 Loam and Brutality after game 1 anticipating some grave hate.
1 Nether Spirit
4 Bloodghast
1 Sylvan Library
3 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void*
4 Lilliana of the Veil
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Life from the Loam
4 Smallpox
4 Collective Brutality
24 Land
4*Bayou
4*Wasteland
4*Verdant Catacombs
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Mishra’s Factory
2 Cabal Pit
2 Barren Moor
1 Swamp
1 Forest
Sideboard
2 Trinisphere
2 Sphere of Resistance
1 Krosan Grip
1*Maelstrom Pulse
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Faith of the Devoted
3 Toxic Deluge
Hi guys,
Are there some kind of stock mono-B list(s) floating around ? Don't see much on mtgtop8 and the Primer is 4 years old so a bit outdated :)
Thanks for the help.
i can provide you with a stock list, containing what i think are the core cards in the mono-black version..
you don't see it often making top 8's because it is an under-represented deck but in the right meta it can really shine, in fact i had a decent finish with it recently and plan to bring it to a tourney again soon.. i think it is well-positioned now because of the resurgence of fair decks post-top banning..
why do you think the primer is outdated? hmm, but to be fair, maybe new cards in newer sets that have potential in pox should be included in the first page..though i have to say that it is a fairly active forum considering the deck is not very popular..this one and the one in MTGSALVATION i think are 2 of the best pox forums out there..
Regardless of stock lists, I would strongly recommend at least 2-3 Collective Brutality. It works very well as pseudo copies of Smallpox, which is one of the best cards in the deck. Pox is a deck that can use it better than almost any other deck. The only other recommendation I would give is to make sure you load up on graveyard hate in the board. I think less than 5 is suboptimal. The 1-2 punch of discard into grave hate can punish decks pox doesn't like to see (storm, dredge, loam, mid-range blue decks.)
Personally I recommend Ratchet Bomb maindeck right now. My metagame is really fair, so hitting multiple permanents is really good. Elves is the big combo deck in my metagame too, which can shrug off a Smallpox fairly easily but Ratchet Bomb can be very good.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
i second this..
I'm interested in the stock list :) Is it the one from http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16098&d=299201&f=LE ?
If you can also suggest a starting list, I'm all ears. Would that be the one you shared just a few posts before ?
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