[Primer/Deck] Pox

[mykatdied]

With the new legendary planeswalker rules we can play both our dark ladies, liliana of the veil and liliana last hope, seems nice


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I have been thinking about that as well since I'm on last hope at the moment. I may start splitting up numbers to try and get both online. Seems powerful though it might be worth it to explore liliana of the dark realms with veil or last hope to keep the swamps up to ensure we have the necessary mana to keep playing. Also could be used to keep pitch fodder for liliana of the veil so we can hold onto spells like innocent blood, fatal push, sinkhole etc.

[dunstilbrejik]

With the new legendary planeswalker rules we can play both our dark ladies, liliana of the veil and liliana last hope, seems nice

I'm not totally convinced about Liliana, the Last Hope. What exactly is the -2/-1 hitting? All the creatures we run reanimate more easily on their own, so the second ability isn't that great. The ultimate is the only thing I can see being valuable as a finisher, but that's not until at least 4 turns after being played.

[Nocioni88]

Board control + ulti that win the game. Often i clean the board then i miss a card that close the game. With both lilianas i can do that easily


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[procobrito]

I'm not totally convinced about Liliana, the Last Hope. What exactly is the -2/-1 hitting? All the creatures we run reanimate more easily on their own, so the second ability isn't that great. The ultimate is the only thing I can see being valuable as a finisher, but that's not until at least 4 turns after being played.

What about Liliana, Heretical Healer? The flip is easily archivable, and the double discard or discard + sac creature really help to control

[dunstilbrejik]

Board control + ulti that win the game. Often i clean the board then i miss a card that close the game. With both lilianas i can do that easily

I'm not persuaded on the board control part though, I just looked up the most played creatures and Liliana can hit 3 of them, Strix, Snapcaster and Young Pyromancer. The others are all 1/2 or greater toughness. Having an ultimate to win the game doesn't seem that great either, as if you used a grindy wincon in the same amount of time you would still win.

What about Liliana, Heretical Healer? The flip is easily archivable, and the double discard or discard + sac creature really help to control

You could equally play bottomless pit. It's easier to turn on and the randomness is a mixed bag.

[Mr. Safety]

I'm not totally convinced about Liliana, the Last Hope. What exactly is the -2/-1 hitting? All the creatures we run reanimate more easily on their own, so the second ability isn't that great. The ultimate is the only thing I can see being valuable as a finisher, but that's not until at least 4 turns after being played.

If you haven't noticed, legacy is chock full of x/1 creatures that matter. DnT, unflipped delvers, young pyromancer, dark confident, vendilion clique, lingering souls tokens. It also breaks bskull/goyf standoffs. I'm not advocating a bunch of copies, maybe 1, but it should at least be tried with the new ruling.

[mykatdied]

If it means a flipped delver is dealing 1 damage a turn instead of 3 that increases their clock by up to 19 turns which is definitely relevant. I usually pair last hope with night of souls betrayal and then she kills most of the x/2s as well. Even answering a young pyromancer which is definitely a creature that can go way to wide for us, that is usually good enough. She isn't perfect by any means but I have had games where ultimate liliana of the veil even twice just wasn't good enough as odd as that may sound. Variance obviously, but when you can't hold cards in your hand you can slowly lose control over a game you shouldn't have lost.

[Hardcore]

Have I missed something? What rule change are you talking about here?

[PirateKing]

Have I missed something? What rule change are you talking about here?

Planeswalker uniqueness rule is being phased out.
Planeswalkers are now Legendary permanents, so same name copies will kill each other, but not same Planeswalker type.
So it'll be okay for Liliana of the Veil and Liliana the Last Hope to play alongside each other.

[Hardcore]

Tnx.

[streetMage]

Planeswalker uniqueness rule is being phased out.
Planeswalkers are now Legendary permanents, so same name copies will kill each other, but not same Planeswalker type.
So it'll be okay for Liliana of the Veil and Liliana the Last Hope to play alongside each other.

Link to this ruling plz

[harbingerofthevoid]

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...alan-mechanics

Planeswalkers of Legend section

"Starting with this set, all planeswalkers past, present, and future will have the supertype legendary. They will also be subject to the "legend rule." The "planeswalker uniqueness rule" is going away. What does this mean? In short, everything that's true about legendary permanents will now be true about legendary planeswalkers. Also note that this does not mean legendary planeswalkers can be your Commander unless an ability says so."

[streetMage]

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...alan-mechanics

Planeswalkers of Legend section

"Starting with this set, all planeswalkers past, present, and future will have the supertype legendary. They will also be subject to the "legend rule." The "planeswalker uniqueness rule" is going away. What does this mean? In short, everything that's true about legendary permanents will now be true about legendary planeswalkers. Also note that this does not mean legendary planeswalkers can be your Commander unless an ability says so."

Thanks, interesting indeed.

[dunstilbrejik]

If you haven't noticed, legacy is chock full of x/1 creatures that matter. DnT, unflipped delvers, young pyromancer, dark confident, vendilion clique, lingering souls tokens. It also breaks bskull/goyf standoffs. I'm not advocating a bunch of copies, maybe 1, but it should at least be tried with the new ruling.

In the post directly above yours I talk about that. I was looking at mtggoldfish's format staples, and most of the creatures you're naming are played in <10% of decks. I guess it depends on your local meta, but I doubt that much. Most of the top 10 creatures it either does nothing, or comes too late and it's slot would be better filled by innocent blood. Legacy seems to be more full of x/2's that matter than x/1's.

Of course testing is justified, but I doubt it'll yield anything really worthwhile.

If it means a flipped delver is dealing 1 damage a turn instead of 3 that increases their clock by up to 19 turns which is definitely relevant. I usually pair last hope with night of souls betrayal and then she kills most of the x/2s as well. Even answering a young pyromancer which is definitely a creature that can go way to wide for us, that is usually good enough. She isn't perfect by any means but I have had games where ultimate liliana of the veil even twice just wasn't good enough as odd as that may sound. Variance obviously, but when you can't hold cards in your hand you can slowly lose control over a game you shouldn't have lost.

I'd just run toxic deluge

[PirateKing]

I'd just run toxic deluge

If your goal is to just kill creatures, yeah sure Toxic Deluge is better. But it won't win you the game.

[dunstilbrejik]

If your goal is to just kill creatures, yeah sure Toxic Deluge is better. But it won't win you the game.

Liliana, the Last Hope isn't going to even start winning the game until (assuming 0 disruption) 5 turns later. Because of that, the rack, nether spirit, cursed scroll and mishra's factory are all at least equally versatile finishers that operate on a pretty similar timeline.

Honestly, Cursed Scroll seems like a better card in the pox frame. It's usually online and can kill the most popular creatures in the format, as well as act as a wincon. Lili's ultimate is really powerful, but it takes so long to get there that the smaller wincons are just as effective
Edit: And Lili in between those 5 turns can be basically irrelevant.

[PirateKing]

Field of Ruin is an uncommon land from Ixalan

Tap: Add C to your mana pool

, Tap, Sacrifice Field of Ruin: Destroy target nonbasic land an opponent controls. Each player searches his or her library for a basic land card, puts it onto the battlefield, then shuffles his or her library.

Sinkhole cost, replaces itself, seems good

[MrFrowny_]

Field of Ruin is an uncommon land from Ixalan

Tap: Add C to your mana pool

, Tap, Sacrifice Field of Ruin: Destroy target nonbasic land an opponent controls. Each player searches his or her library for a basic land card, puts it onto the battlefield, then shuffles his or her library.

Sinkhole cost, replaces itself, seems good

Eh, I'm not impressed with it.

First off, it taps for colorless.

Secondly, to get the "sinkhole effect" you have to have two lands in play already.

And lastly, each player gets to go get basics, and everybody at the moment is running 1-2 basics at least, and that's not counting if you're playing against D&T/Sneak and Show where this will have no effect.

So in my opinion this is a strictly worse sinkhole, and some pox players have dropped sinkhole all together because of how ineffective it's been lately. I don't think this will see play at all.

[Mr. Safety]

Field of Ruin is an uncommon land from Ixalan

Tap: Add C to your mana pool

, Tap, Sacrifice Field of Ruin: Destroy target nonbasic land an opponent controls. Each player searches his or her library for a basic land card, puts it onto the battlefield, then shuffles his or her library.

Sinkhole cost, replaces itself, seems good

So basically Wasteland 5+. I'm not sold on Sinkhole right now, so I don't think this card will make the cut. If an opponent is low on basic lands I still think Ghost Quarter would still be better as Wasteland 5+. At least Ghost Quarter and Sinkhole hit basic lands themselves, which helps to put the pinch on greedy mana-bases.

[Hardcore]

I have tested Magus of the Moon now, and it works against lands. I think however a Magus/Pithing needle split in main may be best.

This is the latest deck. I haven't got my fourth magus yet.


4 Bloodghast
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
2 Tombstalker

3 Shrieking Affliction

4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Pox
2 Reanimate
1 Buried Alive
4 Smallpox
2 Collective Brutality

4 Dark Ritual
1 Entomb

3 Liliana of the Veil

2 Pithing Needle

11 Swamp
1 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
2 Blood Crypt

Sideboard
4 Engineered Plague
3 Backlash
1 liliana of the veil
1 Pithing Needle
1 Collective Brutality
4 Surgical Extraction
1 Magus of the Moon