Page 190 of 263 FirstFirst ... 90140180186187188189190191192193194200240 ... LastLast
Results 3,781 to 3,800 of 5245

Thread: [Primer/Deck] Pox

  1. #3781
    Member

    Join Date

    Oct 2005
    Location

    Belchertown, MA
    Posts

    148

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I'm worried that Blood Sun (from Rivals of Ixalan) will power up Red based Prison decks. Both Blood Sun and Mono Red Prison decks in general are pretty good against us.

    Does anyone have any thoughts on fighting prison decks? Tech, Play patterns, approaches to the match? I've struggled with both Moon Stompy and Sneak attack already, and I'm just trying to prepare in case the hype is real.

    Thanks!

    (Sorry if this is a double post, my computer is acting funny)
    Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

  2. #3782
    Member
    Hardcore's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2012
    Location

    Gothenburg, Sweden
    Posts

    1,046

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by ntropy View Post
    I'm worried that Blood Sun (from Rivals of Ixalan) will power up Red based Prison decks. Both Blood Sun and Mono Red Prison decks in general are pretty good against us.

    Does anyone have any thoughts on fighting prison decks? Tech, Play patterns, approaches to the match? I've struggled with both Moon Stompy and Sneak attack already, and I'm just trying to prepare in case the hype is real.

    Thanks!

    (Sorry if this is a double post, my computer is acting funny)
    Not relying too much on Mishra's Factory to win, not having too many 1cc spells in the deck. At least that is how my deck handle moon stompy. Look at it the other way; stompy want to hit your weaknesses. In Legacy that is usually a mana base full of non basics and lots of cc 1 spells. Ie, the typical Delver deck. Mono B otoh don't really look like that. Chalice on one doesn't stop us, neither does blood moon. We play Hymn, liliana, Pox etc. And lots of swamps.
    The trick thus is to blank the hate. If you do that moon stompy will become very toothless.

    Sneak attack is annoying, but a different kind of deck and need another approach.
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    hardcore is our resident aggro pox master, hopefully he can help you

    "Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux

  3. #3783
    Member

    Join Date

    Jan 2018
    Location

    Southernmost Brazil
    Posts

    12

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Hi there, guys!

    I think I finally found a balanced and consistent build. I used to think that the right build required four copies of most cards, but I was wrong. After testing for almost two weeks now, I am certain that the following list is the most robust and has shown the most results I have ever experienced, regarding Legacy Pox. I played against all sorts of Delver variants, Sneak & Show, Death & Taxes, with surprisingly good results.


    Land (25)
    2x Cabal Pit
    1x Maze of Ith
    4x Mishra's Factory
    9x Snow-Covered Swamp
    1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4x Wasteland

    Enchantment (3)
    1x Chains of Mephistopheles
    1x Nether Void
    1x The Abyss

    Planeswalker (3)
    3x Liliana of the Veil

    Sorcery (16)
    4x Hymn to Tourach
    4x Innocent Blood
    2x Sinkhole
    3x Smallpox
    3x Thoughtseize

    Artifact (6)
    1x Crucible of Worlds
    2x Cursed Scroll
    1x Meekstone
    1x Phyrexian Totem
    1x Trinisphere

    Creature (1)
    1x Nether Spirit

    Instant (6)
    3x Dark Ritual
    3x Fatal Push

    Sideboard (15)
    2x Dread of Night
    2x Engineered Plague
    2x Extirpate
    2x Massacre
    1x Night of Souls' Betrayal
    2x Pithing Needle
    2x Ratchet Bomb
    2x Tormod's Crypt



    The deck was shaped with my local metagame in mind, for sure, but here goes my two cents on it;


    Lands:
    Urborgs and 9 basic swamps as black mana sources
    Wasteland, Cabal Pit, Maze of Ith and The Tabernacle at Pendrel Valle as resource denial/Taxation effects
    Mishra's Factory as our main win condition, very much like the decks of old (Like Randy Buehler's 'The Deck' and others)

    Enchantments:
    Legends epicness. Enough said.


    Planeswalker:
    I tried using 4 copies of 'Liliana of the Veil', but surprisingly, three worked better. I can even summon her turn 1 kinda regularly, with Dark Ritual's help.

    Sorcery:
    Here is where I had the most trouble fitting all pieces together. I used to run 4 of everyone of these, but as I ran more and more tests, I realized that it was wrong. Then after lots of thinkering, I came up with this;

    * 4 copies of Hymn to Tourach. It is amazing. Perhaps one of the most amazing black spells, ever. Can be used in any stage of the game, most likely with catastrophic results to the opponent.
    * 4 copies of Innocent Blood. Undefendable removal. Usually kills anything the opponent has for 1 black mana. Amazing.
    * 2 copies of Sinkhole. The card I most struggled with. Two copies is enough and can help tremendously, without getting in the way.
    * 3 copies of Smallpox. Yep, I've done it. I lowered the Smallpox count. For me, it worked better than a full set, which I didn't think would happen, but hey.
    * 3 copies of Thoughtseize. Same logic behind Sinkhole. 3 copies do not get in the way late game and we reduce the life loss a little.

    Artifacts:
    The later additions to the deck. It made a big difference in the re-utilization of resources, which are scarce, prison elements and gave another kill condition;

    * 1 copy Crucible of Worlds. It creates a soft lock, recurring infinite blockers (Mishra's Factories), Wastelands and Cabal Pits.
    * 2 copies of Cursed Scroll. I've always been reluctant in using this card, until I used and understood it. It wins games by itself.
    * 1 copy of Meekstone. Yep, Meekstone maindeck. It shuts down Delvers, Gurmar Anglers, Griselbrands and more. For 1 mana.
    * 1 copy of Phyrexian Totem. The ideal turn 1, can be a source of mana or a win condition, all in one adorable Phyrexian.
    * 1 copy of Trinisphere. Prison element, which helps a lot our game-plan. Makes people mad.

    Creature
    1 copy of Nether Spirit. The only deck this fellow plays, I think. We can discard it for Liliana's ability or Smallpox effect. Normally an recurring blocker, sometimes a win condition as well.

    Instants:
    * 3 copies of Dark Ritual. I used to run 4 of these, but then I drew it late game and died. 3 copies showed to be the sweet spot.
    * 3 copies of Fatal Push. The most recent addition. It kills Delvers, Thalias, Deathrite Shamans, Stoneforge Mystics, Snapcaster Mages and some more. Hell yeah.


    Sideboard:

    The sideboard is divided basically into:

    Death & Taxes hate:
    2x Dread of Night
    2x Massacre
    2x Engineered Plague

    Combo/Sneak & Show hate
    2x Extirpate
    2x Pithing Needle

    Delver/Goblins/Weenies hate
    1x Night of Souls' Betrayal
    2x Ratchet Bomb

    Dredge hate:
    2x Tormod's Crypt


    Hope you guys like it! If you have any question, feel free to ask!
    Best regards.

  4. #3784

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonardoWilhelm View Post
    Hi there, guys!

    Hope you guys like it! If you have any question, feel free to ask!
    Best regards.
    I do like it! However, my local meta is infested with Lands and Pile; how would you accommodate such a meta?
    Second question, what do you think of Beseech the Queen? Lots of 1-ofs to find in your list.
    I like the mainboard meekstone
    Lands, MUD, Stax, and Miracles.

  5. #3785
    Member

    Join Date

    Jan 2018
    Location

    Southernmost Brazil
    Posts

    12

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Barachai View Post
    I do like it! However, my local meta is infested with Lands and Pile; how would you accommodate such a meta?
    Second question, what do you think of Beseech the Queen? Lots of 1-ofs to find in your list.
    I like the mainboard meekstone

    Hi there!

    Well, 'Czech Pile' is pretty much a 'wider' Grixis Delver, so a similar strategy applies to that scenario. I would pack more hand disruption (like 'Inquisition of Kozilek') and Ratched Bombs, to blow everything up. I would prioritize a hard lock as soon as possible as well (with 'Nether Void', for example).

    Regarding tutors, I am thinking about the idea of moving 'Chains of Mephistopheles' to the sideboard, then I could put 1 copy of 'Beseech the Queen' mainboard. The idea is quite interesting, it is like having another copy of my 1-of spells. I will have to test that one out, though.


    Thanks to you for the insight!
    Best regards.
    Last edited by LeonardoWilhelm; 01-25-2018 at 12:50 PM.

  6. #3786
    Member
    Fjaulnir's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2016
    Location

    Flanders
    Posts

    385

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonardoWilhelm View Post
    Hi there, guys!

    I think I finally found a balanced and consistent build. I used to think that the right build required four copies of most cards, but I was wrong. After testing for almost two weeks now, I am certain that the following list is the most robust and has shown the most results I have ever experienced, regarding Legacy Pox. I played against all sorts of Delver variants, Sneak & Show, Death & Taxes, with surprisingly good results.


    Land (25)
    2x Cabal Pit
    1x Maze of Ith
    4x Mishra's Factory
    9x Snow-Covered Swamp
    1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4x Wasteland

    Enchantment (3)
    1x Chains of Mephistopheles
    1x Nether Void
    1x The Abyss

    Planeswalker (3)
    3x Liliana of the Veil

    Sorcery (16)
    4x Hymn to Tourach
    4x Innocent Blood
    2x Sinkhole
    3x Smallpox
    3x Thoughtseize

    Artifact (6)
    1x Crucible of Worlds
    2x Cursed Scroll
    1x Meekstone
    1x Phyrexian Totem
    1x Trinisphere

    Creature (1)
    1x Nether Spirit

    Instant (6)
    3x Dark Ritual
    3x Fatal Push

    Sideboard (15)
    2x Dread of Night
    2x Engineered Plague
    2x Extirpate
    2x Massacre
    1x Night of Souls' Betrayal
    2x Pithing Needle
    2x Ratchet Bomb
    2x Tormod's Crypt



    The deck was shaped with my local metagame in mind, for sure, but here goes my two cents on it;


    Lands:
    Urborgs and 9 basic swamps as black mana sources
    Wasteland, Cabal Pit, Maze of Ith and The Tabernacle at Pendrel Valle as resource denial/Taxation effects
    Mishra's Factory as our main win condition, very much like the decks of old (Like Randy Buehler's 'The Deck' and others)

    Enchantments:
    Legends epicness. Enough said.


    Planeswalker:
    I tried using 4 copies of 'Liliana of the Veil', but surprisingly, three worked better. I can even summon her turn 1 kinda regularly, with Dark Ritual's help.

    Sorcery:
    Here is where I had the most trouble fitting all pieces together. I used to run 4 of everyone of these, but as I ran more and more tests, I realized that it was wrong. Then after lots of thinkering, I came up with this;

    * 4 copies of Hymn to Tourach. It is amazing. Perhaps one of the most amazing black spells, ever. Can be used in any stage of the game, most likely with catastrophic results to the opponent.
    * 4 copies of Innocent Blood. Undefendable removal. Usually kills anything the opponent has for 1 black mana. Amazing.
    * 2 copies of Sinkhole. The card I most struggled with. Two copies is enough and can help tremendously, without getting in the way.
    * 3 copies of Smallpox. Yep, I've done it. I lowered the Smallpox count. For me, it worked better than a full set, which I didn't think would happen, but hey.
    * 3 copies of Thoughtseize. Same logic behind Sinkhole. 3 copies do not get in the way late game and we reduce the life loss a little.

    Artifacts:
    The later additions to the deck. It made a big difference in the re-utilization of resources, which are scarce, prison elements and gave another kill condition;

    * 1 copy Crucible of Worlds. It creates a soft lock, recurring infinite blockers (Mishra's Factories), Wastelands and Cabal Pits.
    * 2 copies of Cursed Scroll. I've always been reluctant in using this card, until I used and understood it. It wins games by itself.
    * 1 copy of Meekstone. Yep, Meekstone maindeck. It shuts down Delvers, Gurmar Anglers, Griselbrands and more. For 1 mana.
    * 1 copy of Phyrexian Totem. The ideal turn 1, can be a source of mana or a win condition, all in one adorable Phyrexian.
    * 1 copy of Trinisphere. Prison element, which helps a lot our game-plan. Makes people mad.

    Creature
    1 copy of Nether Spirit. The only deck this fellow plays, I think. We can discard it for Liliana's ability or Smallpox effect. Normally an recurring blocker, sometimes a win condition as well.

    Instants:
    * 3 copies of Dark Ritual. I used to run 4 of these, but then I drew it late game and died. 3 copies showed to be the sweet spot.
    * 3 copies of Fatal Push. The most recent addition. It kills Delvers, Thalias, Deathrite Shamans, Stoneforge Mystics, Snapcaster Mages and some more. Hell yeah.


    Sideboard:

    The sideboard is divided basically into:

    Death & Taxes hate:
    2x Dread of Night
    2x Massacre
    2x Engineered Plague

    Combo/Sneak & Show hate
    2x Extirpate
    2x Pithing Needle

    Delver/Goblins/Weenies hate
    1x Night of Souls' Betrayal
    2x Ratchet Bomb

    Dredge hate:
    2x Tormod's Crypt


    Hope you guys like it! If you have any question, feel free to ask!
    Best regards.
    The list looks very solid and many of your reasonings as well. I've been on 2 (if not 0) Sinkholes as well, and if/when I run Dark Rituals main, its's also usually 3, never want 4.
    3 Smallpox is something I'd have to test myself first, but it seems legit - not getting 2 black hurts sometimes, just as saccing lands early game or discarding that Lili you'd like to keep for later. Only 3 Lili's seems few though

    Your mana base including Ph Totem reminds me very much of Adachi Ryosuke's builds! Do you feel the Tabernacle is worth it? I bought one but cut it again after 2 tourneys as it often was just 'Rishadan port 1-2x' vs any non-elves/EmptyTheWarrens deck.

    I was just about to sell it again to help pay for my wedding. please tell me it's not great/necessary enough

    How has The Abyss worked out for you? That's the only card in your list apart from Crucible (just sold it :D) I don't have yet, but it's another very big investment whose necessity I wasn't sure about before.



    Edit: forgot to add - isn't Nihil Spellbomb better in general than Tormod's? It doesn't allow for turn 1 discard + Crypt vs combo which might be relevant. But the cycling seems like it would make it be worth it vs decks like Czech to keep Snap/Command in check without losing card advantage.

  7. #3787
    Member

    Join Date

    Jan 2018
    Location

    Southernmost Brazil
    Posts

    12

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Fjaulnir View Post
    The list looks very solid and many of your reasonings as well. I've been on 2 (if not 0) Sinkholes as well, and if/when I run Dark Rituals main, its's also usually 3, never want 4.
    3 Smallpox is something I'd have to test myself first, but it seems legit - not getting 2 black hurts sometimes, just as saccing lands early game or discarding that Lili you'd like to keep for later. Only 3 Lili's seems few though

    Your mana base including Ph Totem reminds me very much of Adachi Ryosuke's builds! Do you feel the Tabernacle is worth it? I bought one but cut it again after 2 tourneys as it often was just 'Rishadan port 1-2x' vs any non-elves/EmptyTheWarrens deck.

    I was just about to sell it again to help pay for my wedding. please tell me it's not great/necessary enough

    How has The Abyss worked out for you? That's the only card in your list apart from Crucible (just sold it :D) I don't have yet, but it's another very big investment whose necessity I wasn't sure about before.



    Edit: forgot to add - isn't Nihil Spellbomb better in general than Tormod's? It doesn't allow for turn 1 discard + Crypt vs combo which might be relevant. But the cycling seems like it would make it be worth it vs decks like Czech to keep Snap/Command in check without losing card advantage.



    Hi there, mighty Fjaulnir!


    I did cringe a little while reasoning about taking 1 'Liliana of the Veil' out, but it did work out, surprisingly. It helped a lot with the 'flow' of the deck, if that makes any sense. The 'Tabernacle' issue is highly discussed, and honestly, it is not that necessary, really. Don't get me wrong, it is indeed great, but you could change it easily for a copy of 'Karakas', which helps a lot as well. Sell it, buy a 'Karakas' and use the rest for your wedding (happy one, by the way. Best wishes).

    'The Abyss' is just amazing, it is one of my favorite cards of all time, it can trully end games if resolved successfully. Just imagine the following scenario, where you kill that annoying turn 1 'Deathrite Shaman' and then cast 'Dark Ritual' -> 'The Abyss' on Turn 2. If it resolves, it most likely will end the game. I love it so much that I bought a playmat with it's art on it! (Search for: "mark's artist signature service and other elves and goblins" on Facebook, for anyone interested, they have lots of signed old art playmats for sale).

    Regarding 'Tormod's Crypt', I still prefer that 0 mana cost over the cycling 'Nihil Spellbomb' offers, but it would also work similarly well.


    Thanks a lot for such great questions!
    Best regards.

  8. #3788

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Has anyone thought of directly porting the 8rack deck from modern
    Example: Tom Ross list from September last year

    Planeswalkers (4)
    4 Liliana of the Veil
    Lands (24)
    15 Swamp
    1 Marsh Flats
    4 Mutavault
    4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    Spells (32)
    4 The Rack
    4 Shrieking Affliction
    1 Dismember
    3 Fatal Push
    2 Funeral Charm
    4 Inquisition of Kozilek
    4 Raven's Crime
    4 Smallpox
    3 Thoughtseize
    3 Wrench Mind

    Obvious swaps would be to upgrade Mutavault into Factory and Wrench Mind into Hymn to Tourach (and maybe find space for Dark Ritual / Wasteland) but it's interesting that this version of the deck (4x Rack 4x Affliction) hardly seems to have had anybody test it or talk about it in Legacy even though it seems to have a reasonable following in modern.

    Any thoughts?

    I would probably try something like

    4 Factory
    4 Urborg
    4 Wasteland
    12 Swamp

    4 Liliana
    4 Affliction
    4 Rack
    4 Hymn
    4 Smallpox
    4 Ritual
    4 Inquisition
    2 Push
    2 Innocent Blood
    3 Ravens Crime
    1 Netherspirit

    In hindsight there should probably be a few copies of Thoughtseize in there but you get the idea

  9. #3789
    Member
    Fjaulnir's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2016
    Location

    Flanders
    Posts

    385

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonardoWilhelm View Post
    Hi there, mighty Fjaulnir!


    I did cringe a little while reasoning about taking 1 'Liliana of the Veil' out, but it did work out, surprisingly. It helped a lot with the 'flow' of the deck, if that makes any sense. The 'Tabernacle' issue is highly discussed, and honestly, it is not that necessary, really. Don't get me wrong, it is indeed great, but you could change it easily for a copy of 'Karakas', which helps a lot as well. Sell it, buy a 'Karakas' and use the rest for your wedding (happy one, by the way. Best wishes).

    'The Abyss' is just amazing, it is one of my favorite cards of all time, it can trully end games if resolved successfully. Just imagine the following scenario, where you kill that annoying turn 1 'Deathrite Shaman' and then cast 'Dark Ritual' -> 'The Abyss' on Turn 2. If it resolves, it most likely will end the game. I love it so much that I bought a playmat with it's art on it! (Search for: "mark's artist signature service and other elves and goblins" on Facebook, for anyone interested, they have lots of signed old art playmats for sale).

    Regarding 'Tormod's Crypt', I still prefer that 0 mana cost over the cycling 'Nihil Spellbomb' offers, but it would also work similarly well.


    Thanks a lot for such great questions!
    Best regards.
    A friend of mine has The Abyss though so I guess I might playtest it and just borrow it from him if I can (so I don't need to spend another €350 on 1 card), and if playtesting would indeed indicate it's better than just a 4th Liliana.

    I do have Karakas in my Enchantress collection btw so I might try that it does sound weird in a BB-costed deck though, but I guess that's the same for Tabernacle. At least it makes mana without Urborg.
    A Geier Reach Sanitarium could also be okay in this slot, being able to keep your opponents hellbent in their draw step with Chains, and to create some virtual card advantage with Crucible of Nether Spirit. Although putting cards in your opponents' yard is also risky in Legacy.


    Another question: do you feel like a small number of fetchlands might do anything? Yesterday I ran a (totally different) list with 2 Polluted Deltas because I didn't have enough nice/matching basic Swamps and also because of Tombstalker and Fatal Push; and I couldn't Fatally Push an opponent's Leovold for 3-4 turns because I never got to trigger Revolt.
    The life loss (and being a bit deader to Blood Moon Stompy) are real though in this deck; but also with Crucible of Worlds it gives a nice grinding engine thinning your deck and getting a mana advantage in control mirrors. (and protects against Jace Fateseal killing you

    So it's mainly a small % play that may sometimes be relevant in a positive way, and sometimes negatively affect you when you lose because of the -1 life or Blood Moon. Mhh.




    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    Has anyone thought of directly porting the 8rack deck from modern
    Example: Tom Ross list from September last year
    I had been thinking about that recently as well, after hitting up this old list: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=5868&d=234074&f=LE
    Admittedly that's only 4-Rack though but at least I now finally have that list complete since yesterday with some sweet Antiquities Racks. I still need to playtest it tough and figure out how the Fetch + Sensei's D Top engine should be replaced (and whether any amount of fetches are still necessary for Tombstalker/a Fatal Push upgrade even without Top).
    It does run some ground beaters though instead of the other 4 'Racks'/Afflictions. Rack redirects to PWs so I guess that's the better of the 2.

  10. #3790
    Member

    Join Date

    Jan 2018
    Location

    Southernmost Brazil
    Posts

    12

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Fjaulnir View Post
    A friend of mine has The Abyss though so I guess I might playtest it and just borrow it from him if I can (so I don't need to spend another €350 on 1 card), and if playtesting would indeed indicate it's better than just a 4th Liliana.

    I do have Karakas in my Enchantress collection btw so I might try that it does sound weird in a BB-costed deck though, but I guess that's the same for Tabernacle. At least it makes mana without Urborg.
    A Geier Reach Sanitarium could also be okay in this slot, being able to keep your opponents hellbent in their draw step with Chains, and to create some virtual card advantage with Crucible of Nether Spirit. Although putting cards in your opponents' yard is also risky in Legacy.


    Another question: do you feel like a small number of fetchlands might do anything? Yesterday I ran a (totally different) list with 2 Polluted Deltas because I didn't have enough nice/matching basic Swamps and also because of Tombstalker and Fatal Push; and I couldn't Fatally Push an opponent's Leovold for 3-4 turns because I never got to trigger Revolt.
    The life loss (and being a bit deader to Blood Moon Stompy) are real though in this deck; but also with Crucible of Worlds it gives a nice grinding engine thinning your deck and getting a mana advantage in control mirrors. (and protects against Jace Fateseal killing you

    So it's mainly a small % play that may sometimes be relevant in a positive way, and sometimes negatively affect you when you lose because of the -1 life or Blood Moon. Mhh.


    Fjaunir;

    You should definitely playtest 'The Abyss', I am sure you gonna like it. I must warn you though, people will get mad at you!
    'Karakas' would be more mana efficient than 'Tabernacle', while keeping Thalias, Leovolds, Griselbands and Emrakuls at bay. It works really well, even naturally tapping for white mana, which we could use as colorless.

    The idea of adding Fetches to trigger Fatal Push's revolt is pretty interesting, although I tend to use 'Fatal Push' to remove the most annoying and played 1 or 2 mana creatures ( Delver of Secrets, Deathrite Shaman, Tarmagoyf, Young Pyromancer, Snapcaster Mage ) while using 'Innocent Blood' and 'SmallPox' to deal with the rest of'em, since most likely the opponent won't have more than 1 or 2 creatures in play at the same time. Help me to think of more relevant creatures with converted mana cost bigger than 2, besides Leovold, then we could reason if adding Fetches would be cost-efficient or not. I can't think of any, honestly.

    Slowly, our deck is becoming stronger, fellas! Let's Pox'em.


    Best Regards;

  11. #3791
    Member
    Hardcore's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2012
    Location

    Gothenburg, Sweden
    Posts

    1,046

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    For Rack Pox in Legacy this thread is worth studying;

    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...?4300-Deck-Pox
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    hardcore is our resident aggro pox master, hopefully he can help you

    "Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux

  12. #3792
    Member
    Fjaulnir's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2016
    Location

    Flanders
    Posts

    385

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonardoWilhelm View Post
    Fjaunir;

    You should definitely playtest 'The Abyss', I am sure you gonna like it. I must warn you though, people will get mad at you!
    'Karakas' would be more mana efficient than 'Tabernacle', while keeping Thalias, Leovolds, Griselbands and Emrakuls at bay. It works really well, even naturally tapping for white mana, which we could use as colorless.

    The idea of adding Fetches to trigger Fatal Push's revolt is pretty interesting, although I tend to use 'Fatal Push' to remove the most annoying and played 1 or 2 mana creatures ( Delver of Secrets, Deathrite Shaman, Tarmagoyf, Young Pyromancer, Snapcaster Mage ) while using 'Innocent Blood' and 'SmallPox' to deal with the rest of'em, since most likely the opponent won't have more than 1 or 2 creatures in play at the same time. Help me to think of more relevant creatures with converted mana cost bigger than 2, besides Leovold, then we could reason if adding Fetches would be cost-efficient or not. I can't think of any, honestly.

    Slowly, our deck is becoming stronger, fellas! Let's Pox'em.


    Best Regards;
    Thought-Knot Seer, although Push is kinda weak against Chalice on 1 out of Eldrazi. Vendilion Clique, which isn't played *a lot* but most people who run it will sideboard it in against me and rightfully so. This deck has a lot of sorcery speed removal spells, so flashing in a Clique EOT and attack me/Liliana with it without having a way to kill it immediately, has lost me enough games.


    Death and Taxes also runs some 3- and 4-drops these days, most of which are maybe not the best for Pushing (Recruiter, Palace Jailer), but Flickerwisp can also be annoying as a 3/1 flying attacker.

  13. #3793
    Member

    Join Date

    Jan 2018
    Location

    Southernmost Brazil
    Posts

    12

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Fjaulnir View Post
    Thought-Knot Seer, although Push is kinda weak against Chalice on 1 out of Eldrazi. Vendilion Clique, which isn't played *a lot* but most people who run it will sideboard it in against me and rightfully so. This deck has a lot of sorcery speed removal spells, so flashing in a Clique EOT and attack me/Liliana with it without having a way to kill it immediately, has lost me enough games.


    Death and Taxes also runs some 3- and 4-drops these days, most of which are maybe not the best for Pushing (Recruiter, Palace Jailer), but Flickerwisp can also be annoying as a 3/1 flying attacker.

    Oh, Eldrazi. I do hate them, a lot.

    I will give this idea a shot. The drawback is not that big and could potentially help us in tight situations. Our conversation also made me think with more care about 'Karakas', I think I will put a copy on the sideboard, heck, maybe even in the mainboard (replacing a copy of 'Cabal Pit', for instance), let's see how it behaves.

    I find it amazing how our deck is like a 'sorcery-speed control deck", don't you think?


    Once again, thanks a lot for your insights!
    Best regards.

  14. #3794
    Member
    Fjaulnir's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2016
    Location

    Flanders
    Posts

    385

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonardoWilhelm View Post
    Oh, Eldrazi. I do hate them, a lot.

    I will give this idea a shot. The drawback is not that big and could potentially help us in tight situations. Our conversation also made me think with more care about 'Karakas', I think I will put a copy on the sideboard, heck, maybe even in the mainboard (replacing a copy of 'Cabal Pit', for instance), let's see how it behaves.

    I find it amazing how our deck is like a 'sorcery-speed control deck", don't you think?


    Once again, thanks a lot for your insights!
    Best regards.
    I think Cabal Pit could still work; it would actually also work better with Fetchlands, making it easier to have threshold.

    EDIT: only now I see you originally played 2 Cabal Pits. Yeah I think 1 is probably enough, otherwise there will be a lot of damage being dealt to ourselves^^

  15. #3795

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Fjaulnir View Post
    Rack redirects to PWs so I guess that's the better of the 2.
    In a vacuum yes but it also dies more easily (Kolaghans Command / Ancient Grudge)

    The reason why I like the Rack version is the following:
    - You have 8 unblockable Delver of Secrets so you are more likely to avoid the canonical Pox problem of letting your opponent topdeck into a victory, because you just clock them much faster
    - Pox is an attrition deck that is trying to play a game where both players have as few resources as possible, so it makes way more sense to have win conditions that only cost 1 mana and not things like Ob Nixilis or Nether Void or whatever

    The 4 Raven's Crime is also very interesting, my intuition is not to play so many copies of this card because the retrace ability is redundant in multiples but it highlights the importance of being able to trade excess lands for the opponent's resources (which you are more willing to do in this version because you don't have any expensive winconditions)

  16. #3796
    Mudslinger
    malfie13's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2017
    Location

    Long Island, New York
    Posts

    223

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Hi, all. Im on the MUD thread more than here, but ive been a bg pox player since just before the dig through omniscience era. I thought id post my most recent list for consideration. Bg has slightly better matches vs a lot of bad mono black matches, and it might be cool for you all to have something to throw darts at. If you take out a couple of cards, of course the deck is less expensive, but also less effective. Sadly, bg pox is about as expensive as mono black, in some builds even more. Best.

    Deck: Legacy Loam Pox 1-23-18.dec

    Counts : 61 main / 15 sideboard

    Creatures:1
    1 Nether Spirit

    Artifacts:3
    3 Mox Diamond

    Sorceries:13
    1 Raven's Crime
    2 Hymn to Tourach
    3 Life from the Loam
    4 Smallpox
    2 Maelstrom Pulse
    1 Worm Harvest

    Instants:10
    3 Crop Rotation
    2 Entomb
    3 Abrupt Decay
    2 Diabolic Edict

    Enchantments:4
    2 Exploration
    2 Sylvan Library

    Others:3
    3 Liliana of the Veil

    Lands:27
    2 Bayou
    1 Bojuka Bog
    1 Cabal Pit
    2 Dark Depths
    1 Forest
    1 Ghost Quarter
    1 Glacial Chasm
    1 Karakas
    4 Mishra's Factory
    1 Riftstone Portal
    1 Swamp
    1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    2 Thespian's Stage
    1 Tranquil Thicket
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Wasteland

    Sideboard:15
    1 Necroplasm
    2 Pithing Needle
    1 Cursed Totem
    2 Sphere of Resistance
    1 Coffin Purge
    2 Krosan Grip
    1 Drop of Honey
    1 Bitterblossom
    2 Chains of Mephistopheles
    1 Engineered Plague
    1 The Abyss

    Other cards to consider include collective brutality, and mirri's guile. I also am giving serious consideration to a second bog in the board instead of coffin purge.
    We speak for no one, we hear no one, we see no one

  17. #3797
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    Dec 2013
    Posts

    319

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by malfie13 View Post
    Other cards to consider include collective brutality, and mirri's guile. I also am giving serious consideration to a second bog in the board instead of coffin purge.
    I like your list, it's "landsy". If I made it, I'd go with Mirri's Guile over Sylvan Library just to have more first turn plays...

  18. #3798
    Member
    Fjaulnir's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2016
    Location

    Flanders
    Posts

    385

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    In a vacuum yes but it also dies more easily (Kolaghans Command / Ancient Grudge)

    The reason why I like the Rack version is the following:
    - You have 8 unblockable Delver of Secrets so you are more likely to avoid the canonical Pox problem of letting your opponent topdeck into a victory, because you just clock them much faster
    - Pox is an attrition deck that is trying to play a game where both players have as few resources as possible, so it makes way more sense to have win conditions that only cost 1 mana and not things like Ob Nixilis or Nether Void or whatever

    The 4 Raven's Crime is also very interesting, my intuition is not to play so many copies of this card because the retrace ability is redundant in multiples but it highlights the importance of being able to trade excess lands for the opponent's resources (which you are more willing to do in this version because you don't have any expensive winconditions)
    Btw I totally forgot about seeing this list a while ago, might give you some inspiration as well: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=17879&d=310803&f=LE

  19. #3799

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Fjaulnir View Post
    Btw I totally forgot about seeing this list a while ago, might give you some inspiration as well: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=17879&d=310803&f=LE
    Yep something like that would be good
    I'm not convinced Bob is good as the only creature in a Smallpox deck and everything else is basically what I suggested, sans Ritual, and I agree that Ritual might be wrong in an attrition deck.

    The funniest thing to me about that list is 4x Mutavault and 0x Mishra's Factory
    A) There's no tribal synergy so Mishra's Factory is just a strict upgrade (unless you're really scared of artifact destruction)
    B) There's Engineered Plague in the sideboard which gives Mutavault -1/-1 whether you name Elf or Goblin or Human or anything
    C) You can't even say it's for budget reasons because Factory is like $1 (and Mutavault is $15-20)

  20. #3800
    Member
    Fjaulnir's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2016
    Location

    Flanders
    Posts

    385

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    It's probably just a modern player (modern 8rack plays mutavault) that either didnt know Mishra/Mishra being better/didnt have Mishra available in time in his collection?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)