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Thread: [Primer/Deck] Pox

  1. #3801

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Fjaulnir View Post
    It's probably just a modern player (modern 8rack plays mutavault) that either didnt know Mishra/Mishra being better/didnt have Mishra available in time in his collection?
    I hope so haha
    Somehow he was able to find Engineered Plague, Hymn to Tourach etc but that's the only explanation that makes sense

  2. #3802
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post

    The funniest thing to me about that list is 4x Mutavault and 0x Mishra's Factory
    A) There's no tribal synergy so Mishra's Factory is just a strict upgrade (unless you're really scared of artifact destruction)
    B) There's Engineered Plague in the sideboard which gives Mutavault -1/-1 whether you name Elf or Goblin or Human or anything
    C) You can't even say it's for budget reasons because Factory is like $1 (and Mutavault is $15-20)
    Mutavault is marginally better against Kolaghan's Command....but not enough that I would run it over Factories.
    Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

  3. #3803
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Hey, e-people;

    Just an update on the idea I had about using 'Karakas' mainboard. It worked.
    I played a lot of rounds against 'Death & Taxes' and 'Sneak & Show' during the last weekend and 'Karakas' helped in numerous times, bouncing 'Thalia', 'Griselbrand' and 'Emrakul'. It also helped with mana, so I think the addition turned out great.

    I will remove a copy of 'Cabal Pit' to give 'Karakas' it's place.


    Speaking of which, do you guys have a particular game-plan against top tier decks like 'Death & Taxes' and 'Sneak & Show' ? I tend to 'go with the flow', usually.

  4. #3804
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Death and Taxes: Engineered Plague (name humans), Toxic Deluge

    Sneak and Show: Ensnaring Bridge, Pithing Needle (name Griselbrand or Sneak Attack), Fleshbag Marauder, Diabolic Edict. Generally Liliana of the Veil and targeted discard do very well against this deck in the main. Post-board it gets even better. Innocent Blood is classic tech.
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  5. #3805
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonardoWilhelm View Post
    Hey, e-people;

    Just an update on the idea I had about using 'Karakas' mainboard. It worked.
    I played a lot of rounds against 'Death & Taxes' and 'Sneak & Show' during the last weekend and 'Karakas' helped in numerous times, bouncing 'Thalia', 'Griselbrand' and 'Emrakul'. It also helped with mana, so I think the addition turned out great.

    I will remove a copy of 'Cabal Pit' to give 'Karakas' it's place.


    Speaking of which, do you guys have a particular game-plan against top tier decks like 'Death & Taxes' and 'Sneak & Show' ? I tend to 'go with the flow', usually.
    I've used Karakas out of the board in Loam Pox. I brought in a singleon Sylvan Scrying to find it or a wasteland or a factory as well. It was decent tech vs. Sneak and Show. (this was before Thespian's Stage was printed, I suppose it has even more application now.

    My mainboard is set-up to deal with Death and Taxes -
    2 Toxic Deluge
    2 Ratchet Bomb
    2 Pithing Needle
    For Sneak and Show, I cut the Deluges, Bombs, and Cursed Scroll for 3 Tombstalker and 3 Collective Brutality to increase the clock and the hand disruption.
    Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

  6. #3806
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonardoWilhelm View Post
    Hey, e-people;

    Just an update on the idea I had about using 'Karakas' mainboard. It worked.
    I played a lot of rounds against 'Death & Taxes' and 'Sneak & Show' during the last weekend and 'Karakas' helped in numerous times, bouncing 'Thalia', 'Griselbrand' and 'Emrakul'. It also helped with mana, so I think the addition turned out great.

    I will remove a copy of 'Cabal Pit' to give 'Karakas' it's place.


    Speaking of which, do you guys have a particular game-plan against top tier decks like 'Death & Taxes' and 'Sneak & Show' ? I tend to 'go with the flow', usually.
    D&T: will scoop to Night of Souls' Betrayal, Dread of Night if speed is an issue
    Sneak Show - Pithing Needle and Ensnaring Bridge. Once the bridge is out I'd go with Bontu's last Reckoning over Deluge That maindeck Meekstone post was epic.
    Three Lilianas to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all and in the Sinkhole bind them!

  7. #3807
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    It seems like Brazil is the place to be if you like Pox - after months of not really any results getting published, we get *two* finishes (1 Pox 1 4-Rack) from 1 tournament in Brazil at once

    http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18338&d=313797&f=LE

  8. #3808

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Hello Guys, I'm new to the forum but been playing Mono-B pox for a few years now with limited success. I am working on testing several different sideboard packages on MTGO to figure out what works best for my meta. I see the usual D&T, Sneak&Show, Lands, Delver, 4c, and TES/ANT in my meta (Dallas/FtWorth).

    I have a few questions for the group first:
    • I looked through several pages of the thread but didn't see many reports from MTGO Leagues. Would reports from League matches be considered flooding the thread with too much info? I would like to post my lists & SBs with my matchups on the thread and get feedback on what worked and what didn't, but I don't want to get anyone upset.
    • Also, are there any current streamers who play pox regularly? I would like to watch more game just to see other lines of play that I haven't considered before.

  9. #3809
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    1) Post away, it will only help increase interest and conversation about Pox. It's one of the most popular 'budget' decks in Legacy, people love tweaking it and talking shop.
    2) Reid Duke has several videos on YouTube, I recommend watching any and all of them. Pox doesn't change much over time, maybe a new card tested here and there (Waste Not, Bontu's Last Reckoning), but it hasn't changed fundamentally in years. Watch everything you can get a hold of!
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  10. #3810

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybinary View Post
    Hello Guys, I'm new to the forum but been playing Mono-B pox for a few years now with limited success. I am working on testing several different sideboard packages on MTGO to figure out what works best for my meta. I see the usual D&T, Sneak&Show, Lands, Delver, 4c, and TES/ANT in my meta (Dallas/FtWorth).

    I have a few questions for the group first:
    • I looked through several pages of the thread but didn't see many reports from MTGO Leagues. Would reports from League matches be considered flooding the thread with too much info? I would like to post my lists & SBs with my matchups on the thread and get feedback on what worked and what didn't, but I don't want to get anyone upset.
    • Also, are there any current streamers who play pox regularly? I would like to watch more game just to see other lines of play that I haven't considered before.
    Actual results and discussion from leagues is great, the problem with half of the tier 2 deck threads is that people post suggestions and lists non-stop but nobody actually tests anything

    (Yes I'm often guilty of this, I'm not criticising anyone for theorycrafting but some actual data would be nice too)

  11. #3811

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Awesome, Thanks guys. I have been working on building up a good pool of cards I see people suggest on here for SBs so as I go through and test different packages Ill be sure to post my results here and see what you think.

  12. #3812

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Hey all:

    I'm going to be trying out BW pox in Legacy. First time running the white splash since the days of UR delver with Treasure Cruise. The deck obviously got crushed by UR delver, and subsequently Omniscience with Dig Through Time, but it was surprisingly effective otherwise. My fondest memory was the "perfect victory" I had versus an Elves opponent.

    Anyway, it's been a couple years, so I was obviously able to update the list with some new toys and the list also lost it's primo filtering tool: Sensei's Divining Top.

    Without further ado:

    BW Smallpox:
    Win Conditions:

    3 Lingering Souls
    1 Cursed Scroll
    1 Nether Spirit
    1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
    =6

    Discard:
    3 Thoughtseize
    3 Hymn to Tourach
    2 Collective Brutality
    =8

    Removal:
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Fatal Push
    2 Toxic Deluge
    =8

    3 Liliana of the Veil
    2 Skeletal Scrying
    =5

    Resource Denial
    4 Smallpox
    3 Vindicate
    2 Sinkhole
    =9

    Lands:
    4 Wasteland
    4 Marsh Flats
    3 Scrubland
    2 Mishra's Factory
    1 Fetid Heath
    1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    1 Flagstones of Trokair
    2 Swamp
    1 Karakas
    1 Cabal Pit
    3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1 Plains
    =24

    Sideboard
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Zealous Persecution
    2 Pithing Needle
    2 Lost Legacy
    1 Null Rod
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Bitterblossom
    1 Chains of Mephistopheles
    1 Humility


    So, I have a few questions and a few comments:
    1. What are all of your thoughts on the mana base? In a deck with some many ways of destroying a land, it feels like an auto-include to run Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale; however, with all of the token generators in the 75, it's a bit of nonbo. I never owned a Tabernacle when I ran previous iterations of the deck, so I can't tell you whether or not it comes up in reality, but in goldfishing, it does come up somewhat often.
    2. Are there too many white sources? I feel like Karakas is necessary to give us any possible chance of winning game 1s versus several decks. Should there be more Flagstones of Trokair to break parity? Is Fetid Heath as useful as I think it will be with all of non-black sources in the deck? We HAVE to run a Plains, right? To give us any chance whatsoever against a resolve Blood Moon.
    3. Toxic Deluge. Are 2 main deck necessary? Should this be a Bontu's Last Reckoning? I've never used this card. All my Pox builds always had access to Toxic Deluge and I've been off the deck while all of you have been experimenting with this new tool
    4. The sideboard: I feel like I should be running at least 1, if not 2, Disenchant. Is the 2nd copy of Pithing Needle unnecessary? Are the 2 Lost Legacy better served being Containment Priest and Ethersworn Canonist or two other combo hate cards? I'm pretty open to suggestion in the sideboard. Perhaps, the 3rd surgical can be some other overlapping hate card? (Nihil Spellbomb, Relic of Progenitus, 1 x Leyline of the Void, Containment Priest, etc.)

    My comments:
    1. Skeletal Scrying, in goldfishing and in theory, seems like it will be phenomenal. Obviously, in a top deck war, it's a verrryyy live draw. It's also decent as saving your remaining copies of Lingering Souls versus a Surgical Extraction.
    2. Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, Lingering Souls, and sideboard Bitterblossom are actually a very fast clock. I can tell you this from actually casting these cards in two different decks: the previous iteration of this list, and from running them in Esper Deathblade/Esper Stoneblade.



    Looking for to seeing your comments.

  13. #3813
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    With the mana to cast it you should definitely try Kaya, ghost assassin. Gurmag Angler would also be nice.
    Or you could run Stoneforge mystic. Some equipment to boost the tokens would be nice.

    I would put tabernacle in the sideboard. It is useful against decks that make tokens, elves and goblins, but Delver or Eldrazi won't be bothered much.ex

    I would keep the second needle. Since you play control you will want it against Aether Vials, planeswalkers, thespian stage etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    hardcore is our resident aggro pox master, hopefully he can help you

    "Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux

  14. #3814
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Fjaulnir View Post
    It seems like Brazil is the place to be if you like Pox - after months of not really any results getting published, we get *two* finishes (1 Pox 1 4-Rack) from 1 tournament in Brazil at once

    http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18338&d=313797&f=LE

    Há;

    Yep, people around here do not know how to play against Pox, they got used to the generic Delver and Combo/Unfair decks. That is the deck's main advantage, IMHO; It's "fringeness".
    Although, Pox is a *RARE* thing to see, I've only met two other Pox players across the country.

    Slowly but surely we will assure our spot at Top 8's!

  15. #3815

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post
    With the mana to cast it you should definitely try Kaya, ghost assassin. Gurmag Angler would also be nice.
    Or you could run Stoneforge mystic. Some equipment to boost the tokens would be nice.

    I would put tabernacle in the sideboard. It is useful against decks that make tokens, elves and goblins, but Delver or Eldrazi won't be bothered much.ex

    I would keep the second needle. Since you play control you will want it against Aether Vials, planeswalkers, thespian stage etc.
    I think I may do the clean swap of Bitterblossom and Tabernacle. Although, that would put me down to 23 "lands", Tabernacle is so rarely a mana source. I've considered Kaya, Ghost Assassin, Liliana the Last Hope, and Gideon, Ally of Zendikar as additional cards. I'm not the biggest fan of Angler or Tombstalker in Pox builds, buy I have thought about Stoneforge.
    Ultimately, I lean toward more walkers because they are harder to answer, dodge smallpox, and, in the case of Gideon, facilitate the token gameplan. Id be tempted to run kaya or gideon sideboard because they are so much better vs midrange and control than aggro/combo.

  16. #3816
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonardoWilhelm View Post
    Há;

    Yep, people around here do not know how to play against Pox, they got used to the generic Delver and Combo/Unfair decks. That is the deck's main advantage, IMHO; It's "fringeness".
    Although, Pox is a *RARE* thing to see, I've only met two other Pox players across the country.

    Slowly but surely we will assure our spot at Top 8's!
    Ha! I have at least 3 pox players in my little 20 man local scene!

    Regarding white-splashed Pox: Bloodghast, Lingering Souls, Cabal Therapy, full sets all, GG.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  17. #3817

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    After some brief testing with the 8-Rack style list I think Dark Ritual is not where you want to be, a card that doesn't achieve resource parity seems very poor for this strategy. The only use for it is for fast Liliana, which isn't particularly consistent and might not be powerful enough to be worth it. Without converting Ritual into Liliana you're basically just 2-for-1ing yourself by casting Ritual and I'm not sure that this is something that the deck needs to be doing, especially with 8x other cards that don't interact at all and only do damage.

    I do think that 4 Rack 4 Affliction is a good place to start a list from. Rack + Raven's Crime does seem like a more consistent approach than playing expensive Planeswalkers. Smallpox in a deck with 4-Drops and nothing like Loam to grind advantage back seems like a very unreliable gameplan.

    The actual card Pox is probably better in this version of the deck too, because the burst of lifeloss is more relevant when The Rack is your wincondition, but I still don't think that you can afford to play more than one or two copies.

    I am still testing Arguel's Blood Fast, which is okay, but not great. The interaction with the Temple and Nether Spirit is quite powerful in matchups where your opponent's have burn spells, and having extra free cards is nice, but it's not a very efficient way to gain resources. I do think the deck does want some kind of manasink for turns where you just e.g play a land and plus Liliana but it's likely the case that Cursed Scroll is the best option

  18. #3818
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I would like three Ratchet bombs against chalice of the void.
    Also four Poxes. Sure sometimes you discard them to liliana or sp, other times you discard sp and Lili to Pox. That redundancy four copies gives you is nice to have however.

    Note sure about the Mishra's Factory. If you are looking for lands sinks they fit the bill however. I would not go to cursed scroll for that; they make you play defensively ie controlish. Aggression is better in a rack deck.


    4 Bloodghast
    3 The Rack
    4 Shrieking Affliction

    4 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Smallpox
    4 Pox
    4 Collective Brutality
    3 Raven’s Crime
    1 Reanimate
    3 Liliana of the Veil

    3 Ratchet Bomb

    4 Mishra’s Factory
    10 Swamp
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Marsh Flats
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

    Sideboard

    3 Inquisition of Kozilek
    4 Surgical Extraction
    3 Pithing Needle
    3 Engineered Plague
    2 Darkblast
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    hardcore is our resident aggro pox master, hopefully he can help you

    "Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux

  19. #3819
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Hi there, guys;

    There was a Legacy tournament yesterday at my LGS and I want to share with you how it went, give brief descriptions of the matches and bring in some thoughts I would like to discuss. My metagame is made of a mixture of some insanely unfair decks ('Ops, all spells', 'OmniTell', 'ANT') and lots of Death & Taxes, so it's really broad, making near to impossible to focus in one type of strategy to fight against. We agreed on not using sideboards, just to see how the decks would behave by themselves.

    With that said, I will describe what happened in each game:

    Match #1 -- 'OmniTell': LOSS 2-0
    He did combo out on first turn on both games. Nothing I could do.

    Match #2 -- 'Grixis Delver': WON 2-0
    He had the most 'rounded' list I've ever seen, thus the games took a LONG time. On both games I created the ideal environment, stabilized the board, imprizoned him and won by tackling him with 'Mishra's Factories' and 'Cursed Scroll'. On the first game I destroyed all his lands, Trinisphered and he never got back from it. Second game I destroyed all his 'Delvers' and 'Deathrite Shamans' and had 'The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale' on the board turn two, which delayed his game plan, while I disrupted his hand to oblivion.

    Match #3 -- 'Death and Taxes': WON 2-1
    Death & Taxes is the most interactive deck I know, besides Pox, which always make the games tricky. First game I couldn't find 'Pithing Needle' and he casted 'Aether Vial' on turn 1, Thalia on turn 2 and carried curving beautifully. My draws were horrendous, so I conceded. On games two I was able
    to cast 'Pithing Needle' and trinisphered on turn 2, turn 4 I casted 'The Abyss'. He conceded in fear. Game three I casted two 'Pithing Needle' and a Nether Void, he conceded without having a single permanent in play.

    Match #4 -- 'Sneak & Show': WON 2-0
    On both games I destroyed all his lands with the help of 'Crucible of Worlds', recurring 'Wasteland' infinitely. I won by bashing him with 'Cursed Scroll' for 2 damage every turn. Agonizing.


    With all that in mind, I must say that I am impressed, actually everybody were. I think I finally found a good balance for the deck, it is consistent and can control/imprizon rather easily. The highlights would be:
    -The resource pool that 'Crucible of World' gives us;
    - Trinisphere, Nether Void and 'The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale' as taxing effects that really slow down our opponent, but have less of an impact on us (creating an assimetric effect)
    - The devastating effect 'The Abyss' brings. It is the most amazing card ever.
    - Fatal Push. Period.
    - Sinkhole. It is still relevant, contrary on what I've thought. It won me a game when I sinkholed an important 'Island'. Two copies is the sweetest of sweet spots.

    Now, with that said, I would like to propose a question for you guys, it is something I've been thinking lately and that is; Is 'Esnaring Bridge' worth a slot? I see lots of Pox lists using it. Does it work well?


    Well, I hope some of the information in here can be useful for you. If you have any questions or if you want me to describe one of the games in greater detail, let me know. Have a great weekend.

    Best regards.

  20. #3820
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post
    I would like three Ratchet bombs against chalice of the void.
    Also four Poxes. Sure sometimes you discard them to liliana or sp, other times you discard sp and Lili to Pox. That redundancy four copies gives you is nice to have however.

    Note sure about the Mishra's Factory. If you are looking for lands sinks they fit the bill however. I would not go to cursed scroll for that; they make you play defensively ie controlish. Aggression is better in a rack deck.


    4 Bloodghast
    3 The Rack
    4 Shrieking Affliction

    4 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Smallpox
    4 Pox
    4 Collective Brutality
    3 Raven’s Crime
    1 Reanimate
    3 Liliana of the Veil

    3 Ratchet Bomb

    4 Mishra’s Factory
    10 Swamp
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Marsh Flats
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

    Sideboard

    3 Inquisition of Kozilek
    4 Surgical Extraction
    3 Pithing Needle
    3 Engineered Plague
    2 Darkblast
    Four bloodghast and no Cabal Therapy? Dude, I can't even...
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