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Thread: [Primer/Deck] Pox

  1. #4281

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    can someone post a good control pox deck? thanks

  2. #4282
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
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    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  3. #4283

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Dont u like the abyss here?¿

  4. #4284

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Maybe?
    as far as creature control:

    4 innocent blood
    4 lili OTV
    4 small pox
    1 toxic deluge
    1 maze of ith
    1 tabernacle
    2 lili, last hope (kinda)
    2 cursed scroll

    Seems like creatures are well taken care of in this list. Plus, one creature per turn might be too slow for legacy, but i'm not sure. Maybe in other builds but ill let the more experienced players chime in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  5. #4285
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Buried alive seems not be well understood here, let's change that.
    I suppose the perspective of the control Pox lead players to defensive thinking. This make them overlook an important fact: Delver decks are not especially fast. They tend to ponder turn one, or just sit tight waiting for targets to counter. A hard cast Bloodghast is bad news in that situation. They can't handle it, and have also lost the initiative.
    Triple ghasts are of course three times the bad news.

    Not only Delver decks are vulnerable. For example a turn one Buried alive helped me defeat a Turbo Depths I encountered once at the lgs.
    Then there is Burn. It is a deck you defeat by being faster, and here we have a card that really help with that.

    Darkblast was mentioned by Mr. Safety. This is a card best to avoid. It can easily lead to a death spiral where you need to dredge for it while the opponent draw more valuable cards from the deck.
    Last edited by Hardcore; 06-22-2018 at 07:40 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    hardcore is our resident aggro pox master, hopefully he can help you

    "Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux

  6. #4286
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Is there a reason I never see crucible in pox? I feel like between wasteland, factories blocking, and cabal pit crucible is like an easy include. I'm sure there's a reason, I just don't know it
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  7. #4287
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by ronco View Post
    Maybe?
    as far as creature control:

    4 innocent blood
    4 lili OTV
    4 small pox
    1 toxic deluge
    1 maze of ith
    1 tabernacle
    2 lili, last hope (kinda)
    2 cursed scroll

    Seems like creatures are well taken care of in this list. Plus, one creature per turn might be too slow for legacy, but i'm not sure. Maybe in other builds but ill let the more experienced players chime in.
    That there is a control Pox configuration.
    Aggro don't bother with creature defense unless it matters. For example, the ubiquitous death-rite shaman is killed not because it is a threat but because it is mana acceleration that help the opponent play more valuable spells.
    This is the list I use nowadays. It is as pure Aggro i can make it:

    4 shrieking affliction
    4 Bloodghast
    4 nihilith
    1 buried alive

    4 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Collective Brutality
    4 Smallpox
    4 Pox
    3 liliana of the veil
    2 liliana, the last hope
    4 dark ritual

    4 bloodstained mire
    1 polluted delta
    4 marsh flats
    13 Swamp


    It is up to you if you want to play aggressive or defensive. Only thing to avoid is to create a deck that is weird hybrid of the both.
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    hardcore is our resident aggro pox master, hopefully he can help you

    "Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux

  8. #4288
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Megadeus View Post
    Is there a reason I never see crucible in pox? I feel like between wasteland, factories blocking, and cabal pit crucible is like an easy include. I'm sure there's a reason, I just don't know it
    There have been some talk about land destruction being less effective nowadays. Sink hole is less popular. Could be that.
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    hardcore is our resident aggro pox master, hopefully he can help you

    "Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux

  9. #4289

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Hardcore - Agreed, that response of mine you quoted was to the poster above looking at a control build.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  10. #4290
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by ronco View Post
    Hardcore - Agreed, that response of mine you quoted was to the poster above looking at a control build.
    Ah, ok.
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    hardcore is our resident aggro pox master, hopefully he can help you

    "Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux

  11. #4291

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post
    Buried alive seems not be well understood here, let's change that.
    I suppose the perspective of the control Pox lead players to defensive thinking. This make them overlook an important fact: Delver decks are not especially fast. They tend to ponder turn one, or just sit tight waiting for targets to counter. A hard cast Bloodghast is bad news in that situation. They can't handle it, and have also lost the initiative.
    Triple ghasts are of course three times the bad news.

    Not only Delver decks are vulnerable. For example a turn one Buried alive helped me defeat a Turbo Depths I encountered once in the lgs.
    Then there is Burn. It is a deck you defeat by being faster, and here we have a card that really help with that.

    Darkblast was mentioned by Mr. Safety. This is a card best to avoid. It can easily lead to a death spiral where you need to dredge for it while the opponent draw more valuable cards from the deck.
    Delver decks are not fast? They tend to just ponder turn one? They sit tight and wait for targets to counter? Wut? Delver wants to land a drs or a delver turn one. They are a tempo deck. They play fast threats and have force and daze to counter while still playing threats. The way to beat delver is not to try to ramp to a t3 buried alive that is going to get dazed and your ghasts are going to be eaten by drs. Vs daze you want to T1 Innocent Blood T2 Smallpox T3 Hymn, while dumping your ghast into your gy with the smallpox play. If you are trying to hit 3 mana t3 vs delver to play buried alive.. I promise you that you are not winning that match. And it is even worse to try to dark ritual into a buried alive T1, which is just getting forced.

  12. #4292
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Pittplayer View Post
    Delver decks are not fast? They tend to just ponder turn one? They sit tight and wait for targets to counter? Wut? Delver wants to land a drs or a delver turn one. They are a tempo deck. They play fast threats and have force and daze to counter while still playing threats. The way to beat delver is not to try to ramp to a t3 buried alive that is going to get dazed and your ghasts are going to be eaten by drs. Vs daze you want to T1 Innocent Blood T2 Smallpox T3 Hymn, while dumping your ghast into your gy with the smallpox play. If you are trying to hit 3 mana t3 vs delver to play buried alive.. I promise you that you are not winning that match. And it is even worse to try to dark ritual into a buried alive T1, which is just getting forced.
    Indeed. They don't have Delver of secrets in every opening hand, nor force or daze. Thing is they rely very much on their cantrip package to fix things for them, avoiding mulligans. A hand with Lands and ponder is usually a keep for them, whereas I always must mulligan a hand with no win condition.

    Second, if they do not know what you play they need to avoid leave an opening for what could be a combo. Thus a Polluted delta is a good first turn play for a Pox deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    hardcore is our resident aggro pox master, hopefully he can help you

    "Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux

  13. #4293
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore;1048125[B
    Darkblast[/B] was mentioned by Mr. Safety. This is a card best to avoid. It can easily lead to a death spiral where you need to dredge for it while the opponent draw more valuable cards from the deck.
    Not trying to pick a fight here, but I'm really surprised at this statement. I've always had very good results with Darkblast. It has been replaced, to a small extent, by the new Liliana, but it's still really, really good.

    How is Darkblast *not* literally the nuts against Grixis Delver/Death and Taxes/Elves? It kills unflipped delvers, flipped delvers (cast at upkeep, dredge, cast again), Young Pyromancers, Young Pyromancer tokens, almost all elves, Mother of Runes, Flickerwhisp, Phyrexian Revoker, Stoneforge Mystic, the list goes on and on. All the while, it can be left in the graveyard if you need your draw step or dredged if you need it. The only creatures it doesn't deal with are TNN and Gurmag Angler, both of which can be cleaned up with Smallpox/Liliana/Pox.

    I'm really curious where Darkblast would ever be a liability. If they are drawing valuable cards (threats) you can match it with machine-gun removal. Until Darkblast is removed from the game it's a ton of inevitability.
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  14. #4294

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    It has been replaced, to a small extent, by the new Liliana.
    I think it's actually good WITH the new Liliana because it combines with it to kill X/2s

    Darkblast-Dredge3-Darkblast was fine in the actual dredge deck because 2-for-1ing yourself didn't matter when you were killing Teeg and winning the game immediately. 2-for-1ing yourself to kill a delver or a DRS isn't something I'm interested in doing, but i think 1 Darkblast could be ok/good
    Last edited by kombatkiwi; 06-23-2018 at 12:05 PM.

  15. #4295
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Not trying to pick a fight here, but I'm really surprised at this statement. I've always had very good results with Darkblast. It has been replaced, to a small extent, by the new Liliana, but it's still really, really good.

    How is Darkblast *not* literally the nuts against Grixis Delver/Death and Taxes/Elves? It kills unflipped delvers, flipped delvers (cast at upkeep, dredge, cast again), Young Pyromancers, Young Pyromancer tokens, almost all elves, Mother of Runes, Flickerwhisp, Phyrexian Revoker, Stoneforge Mystic, the list goes on and on. All the while, it can be left in the graveyard if you need your draw step or dredged if you need it. The only creatures it doesn't deal with are TNN and Gurmag Angler, both of which can be cleaned up with Smallpox/Liliana/Pox.

    I'm really curious where Darkblast would ever be a liability. If they are drawing valuable cards (threats) you can match it with machine-gun removal. Until Darkblast is removed from the game it's a ton of inevitability.
    Darkblast is excellent against all the cards you mentioned, and I should know since I once pushed it a lot on the forums.(good against Delver as noted).
    It is not my hate cards of choice against those decks, however.

    There are some problems;
    You don't dredge for it when you need it, you must dredge it up before that so you have an instant creature kill to play at the opponents eot. (this assume you already cast it once)

    Anther problem is that killing creatures with toughness two result in another tempo loss since you need two draws to kill what the opponent drew once.
    (It is not a machine gun. More like a 22 caliber sniper rifle. Some targets need two bullets)

    Because of this I have too often got trapped in a desperate choice between dredge up DB or try top deck something that can change my position from defense to offense.

    Nowadays I prefer cards like Engineered Plague backed up by efficient sweepers.
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    hardcore is our resident aggro pox master, hopefully he can help you

    "Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux

  16. #4296
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by ronco View Post
    I wasn't sure if bitterblossom went well with big pox. Between that, fetches and pox that is a LOT of self inflicted life loss and wasn't sure if putting myself into range of a few bolts was a great idea. I was thinking those would be more sideboard tech that I would pull big pox out for if it came down to it. But it certainly protects delve creatures/gives blockers/rebuilds the board quickly.

    I've pulled out 3 urborg, 2 factory, 1 wasteland for 6 fetches in the mean time to try out and the mana base does feel a lot better. I don't know I am comfortable completely cutting wasteland as it seems very versatile in the format, but again I have no idea. I temporarily pulled big pox in favor of delve creatures and left the rest the same, and it handled my G/R aggro deck better (all I've had time to test against), for what that is worth. Not sure if that will stay since I want to play big pox IF I can make it work or at least not be terrible.


    In response to the others:
    -I don't have surgical now, only have extirpate, which is why that is there. Someday...
    -IoK and similar cards being weak is a bit surprising to me. Is that comment made to imply thoughtsieze is better or all one mana for one card cards are not great in that build?
    -I keep forgetting about maze of ith and ratchet bomb. this is where lack of experience hurts as I don't run into problem creatures/permanents often vs my limited pool of decks.
    -on the way to work this morning, I had a terrible idea of considering prized amalgram along side the bloodghasts. But that is probably 100% too cute for competitive decks.
    -regarding dark rits, I had pulled them as the consensus seemed to be split, and it gave me 4 more slots for tech. Since everything was 3 or less mana I didn't think it was terribly necessary but maybe I misunderstood the builds people were saying it was needed/not needed in.

    thanks for the feedback on the rest, plenty I had overlooked. with the exception of nether void builds, I can put together just about any version of mono black pox or vaka pox (the Bw build, right?). Big pox agro was the one I was wanting to start with. I'm sure I'll find my sweet spot after getting it to some real events in due time.
    Got time to go back and comment on discard and wasteland.

    Way back, 15? Years ago, I quit playing Mono B in type 1, as it was called then. To much broken stuff in the format, and all the discard in the world did not help. Years later I saw the Smallpox card for the first time and realized this was the future of discard. I got back into the game again and have been perfecting Pox since then.

    I have, again, realized that 1cc discard spells do nothing for me. They trade one for one, not furthering the game plan.
    Some would like to have them in the main against combo and such. Well that does not further the game plan either. (Nor does Burn play Pyroblast in main help them win. Same thing.)
    I have also won through heavy discard aimed at my self. Thoughtseize, cabal therapy, no hand. So what. My opponent is short on spells too at that point. With no 1cc discard I am at an advantage in the top deck war.

    That I don't run wasteland is to avoid losing tempo. It is better to play swamps and build up my manabase so I can cast my high value spells..
    Then of course you will have wasteland when you don't need it, and miss it when you do.
    Last edited by Hardcore; 06-23-2018 at 05:34 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    hardcore is our resident aggro pox master, hopefully he can help you

    "Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux

  17. #4297
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post
    I have, again, realized that 1cc discard spells do nothing for me. They trade one for one, not furthering the game plan.
    While the trading is low (and can miss!) when compared to Hymn or (almost) anything else that discards, the information gained by viewing their hand is incredibly valuable.
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I got to play Legacy twice this week.

    Wednesday from my previously posted list. (Page 213, #4247)
    -2 Swamps, -1 Maze , -1 IOK
    +2 Urborg, +1 BBlossom, +1 EBridge

    Dredge 0-2
    The nuts followed by not good enough hate. Ensnaring was Cabal’d out game 1 and hate was late to the party game 2. Had to Smallpox my own Factory to pop Bridge from Below. That sucked. Needed a Bridge or a wrath I never saw.

    Bye (played a Pox mirror with a friend 1-1)
    The secret is get Lily down and Cursed Scroll online asap. That’s how he won game 1 and how I controlled game 2. He started the second game by needling my 3 Factory hand. There were 7-8 turns of “Shoot your Lily, uptick, pass.” It was awesome. I won it with a Lil’ Hope Ult & Bitterblossom after paying 7 for Tabernacle.

    Living Fins 1-2
    Game 1 Fetch pass. Swamp pass, eot crackafetch, Entomb. Urborg, Exhume Grizzy, go to 6, Unmask stuff, pass. Maze of Ith pass. Fast mana fast mana Grave Titan zombies zombies zombies…
    Game 2. Bitterblossom, Smallpox and Lily.
    Game 3 Fetchland pass. Swamp Cursed Scroll pass. Shallow and swing Grizzbiz, draw draw draw gain it back with Kids of Korlis, draw draw draw, fast mana fast mana Living Wish Lab Maniac draw draw draw win.

    Sylvan Miracles 2-1 (I made that name up. Miracles with Green for Sylvan Library, Mirri’s Guile & Loam.)
    Game 1 I curved pretty nastily into a scoop.
    Game 2 my opponent won at 2 life after an epic back and forth. His Council Judged 2 Phyrexian Totems, a Karn and a Bitterblossom in that order. I had to double Needle a Jace that I never saw due to the knowledge of a Judgement in his hand that I actually wanted to slap on Azcanta. Totem became the next best target. Game 3 had him on his heels the whole time and it went pretty quickly.

    1-2 or 2-2 if you want to sugarcoat a bye*.

    *I only got the bye because some asshole Iona’d out a 10 year old burn player twice and he dropped from his first Legacy event.

    Friday
    Dropped 1 to go back to 2 Bridges and brought back that IOK. (1 iok/2 TS)

    15 PLAYERS, 2 POXERS. BIGGEST META SHARE.

    BUG Aluren 0-2
    This has always difficult for me. Half the creatures ooze card advantage and the other half with the game.
    Game 1 I controlled for quite some time but he answered my threats. Lil’ Veil Ultimate split Aluren and 5 lands and he kept the card the deck is named after. Fast forward I couldn’t find a threat and eventually he hit the combo.
    Game 2 Curve into Lost Legacy naming Aluren. Felt pretty good. Unfortunately his Lil’ Hope ultimated the turn before mine. We eventually were both 250ish zombies wide but it didn’t matter. I couldn’t answer Baleful Strix for an embarrassingly long time. I had 3 edicts and no wraths.

    He played the other Pox player the next round and lost 7 games against a much more traditional list.

    Miracles 2-0
    Game 1 win the roll. My opener was something like IOK, IB, Spox, Lil V, 3 Swamps. IOK into STP, Predict, SnapCaster, Terminus, Surpreme Verdict, Island, Fetch. Grabbed Predict. That hand didn’t do anything against me and I would be able to draw out a subpar Snappy eot to combat my upticked Lily. Let Lily get hit, IB, uptick. Shortly thereafter Karn & Bitterblossom. At the end, Karnstructing tokens was better than drawing cards.
    Game 2 kept him off Jace mana for a while while stripping the rest of his hand. My Totem was followed by his Jace and which was then eaten by the Totem. My opponent was then eaten by the Totem and a Factory.

    Grixis Delver 1-2
    Game 1 I answered everything dropped and upticked Lil’ Hope into a (possibly premature) scoop.
    Game 2 Controlled the early game but I couldn’t answer going wide. Bitterblossom is slow in the face of Delver and Pyromancer tokens.
    Game 3 I answered everything he dropped and was starting come in with Cursed Scroll damage and then he cast 2 Gurmanglers. IB one. Block the other with a Totem and sac a dickton of not needed lands and a faerie token. Drops TNN a naming Nathan. Lil’ Hope downtick (DID YOU GUYS KNOW THAT CARD COULD DOWNTICK?) get back Mangler drop a god damn Mangler. I top deck a swamp. Swing I go to 10. I top deck a swamp. Swing I go to 2. I top deck a swamp. I had all the removal in the world but it was targeted or not big enough. No board wipes.

    D&T 2-1
    Game 1 My opponent won at 33 life. The skull batters.
    Game 2 My controlled the hand and any bodies that hit the table. Forced the Batterskull discard early. Cursed Scroll put in a lot of work and I killed a lot of Revokers to do so. Scooped to a very oppressive board state.
    Game 3 started the same and ended with Factory and Totem. Totem had to stop swinging for a while with Vial on 3 and unknowns in the hand but was able to join the alpha strike.

    2-2.
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Hello Poxers! Been lurking for awhile and decided it was time to make my first post. I've recently found time in my life to play legacy again and have been playing a pox list. So I'm going to share with you my list, looking for some input and I'll also share my latest local tournament info after.

    4 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Mishras Factory
    4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    3 Wasteland
    1 Badlands
    1 Bojuka Bog
    1 Mountain
    6 Swamp

    4 Bloodghast
    1 Tombstalker

    4 Collective Brutality
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Smallpox
    3 Thoughtseize
    2 Toxic Deluge
    2 Innocent Blood

    1 Dismember
    3 Kolaghan's Command

    4 Liliana of the Veil
    1 Liliana the Last Hope
    2 Karn, Scion of Urza

    1 Nether Void

    Sideboard
    2 Leyline of the Void (trying to get more)
    2 Ensnaring Bridge
    2 Engineered Plague
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Sinkhole
    1 Cursed Scroll
    1 Pyroblast
    2 Pithing Needle
    1 Maze of Ith

    On Friday I went 3-1 With this.
    Round One vs Burn I went 0-2 (geez who didnt see this coming)

    Round 2 vs Bomberman I went 2-0 never felt pressured at all. Got Nether void both times which helped.

    Round 3 vs Slow Depths I went 2-1 first game was a quick loss to a nasty 20/20. Sideboard went in and took the games.

    Round 4 vs DnT 2-0 again, never felt pressured at all. K Command did wonders here. 2 for ones everywhere.

    So I'll keep posting and looking. Hope to hear some input. Thanks! Also if this posts wonky, I'll fix it at home I'm on my phone.

  20. #4300

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Streaming here occasionally:

    https://www.twitch.tv/dungeonshade

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