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Thread: [Primer/Deck] Pox

  1. #4661

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    1. Making creatures uncounterable doesn't seem that exciting because what creatures are you even playing? You don't care if they counter your Bloodghast or Nether Spirit and if you manifest Tombstalker or Angler then the 'uncounterable creature' aspect is irrelevant because you'll never have enough mana to flip them.
    2. I don't think the deck would ever play Bane of the Living even if there is a combo that lets you play it facedown for 0 mana.
    3. This point about jace is nonsense, if the 2/2 was a card that you really wanted to keep in hand then you wouldn't have manifested it in the first place.
    4. Yup this is nice but will be awkward with Liliana sometimes.
    5. Which ones?
    6. Yes, this is the best reason to play the card.
    7. Yeah this is cool, doesn't interfere with paying for Mishra's Factory / Cursed Scroll
    8. Kind of? But a lot of the existing winconditions aren't very grave dependent anyway. For example you could argue this replaces Crucible, which is highly graveyard dependent, but Crucible acting as disruption by returning Wastelands is an extremely strong upside that this card doesn't have. PWs also are not graveyard dependent. So while I agree that not being GY dependent is good, I'm not sure how significant that is
    9. Okay, but this is kind of marginal, it's only relevant after resolving a 3-mana artifact when you are otherwise hellbent in which case discardspells aren't going to be very effective against you anyway

    1. Yeah being an artifact is worse than Enchantment/PW, K-Command isn't too popular at the moment but Abrade/Grudge are around
    2. Yeah, being an activated ability is a downside, but the deck has so many other targets for needles (PW/Scroll/Waste/Factory) that I think it's probably ok
    3. Yup this is a downside but applies to most cards

    I think the biggest drawbacks are
    1. Makes you choose between a 2/2 or a spell. You won't always topdeck a blank and every turn you do draw a relevant spell, this card won't do anything (or at least it forces you to make an awkward decision). It's also technically always going to be card disadvantage so you have to dig through a LOT of blanks for it to start to make sense.
    2. Not disruption. In this slot there are many other cards you could choose that not only win the game but also interact with the opponent: Davriel, Last Hope, Crucible (indirectly), Cursed Scroll, etc. Most people are not playing cards that only win the game and do nothing else e.g. Underworld Dreams or Shrieking Affliction. This is arguably a bit better than those two, because the 2/2s can attack planeswalkers and also block, and a 2/2 every turn probably kills the opponent faster than Shrieking Affliction, but many of these other wincon options function as discard or removal (or as a mana source, in the case of Factory/Urami etc), while this doesn't.
    3. You are still turning cards into creatures which can clash with the symmetrical anti-creature options like Smallpox/Innocent Blood/Toxic Deluge/Ensnaring Bridge etc

    I think the card seems reasonable but I'm not totally sold on it
    In response to your opposite attacking, you manifest Bane of the Living for free, then flip it for whatever, 3 Mana, 4 Mana etc. Seems pretty good to me. And I stated my post after play testing. You can argue the points, but I am speaking from experience, Jace bouncing creatues to hand is a lot less attractive when you could be bouncing a pw kill spell you didn't think you needed earlier, or a smallpox, etc.

  2. #4662
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Mire in misery (Commander 2019)
    cc : 1B
    Sorcery
    Each opponent sacrifice a creature or enchantment.

    The effect is unique enough for black (Maro hinted other similar ones might come later) so it is worth considering it. Opponent can choose so most of the time it will be a bad card but if it has a potential somewhere for dealing with enchantments it is in POX shell.

  3. #4663
    Darth Poxious

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Albarkhane View Post
    Mire in misery (Commander 2019)
    cc : 1B
    Sorcery
    Each opponent sacrifice a creature or enchantment.

    The effect is unique enough for black (Maro hinted other similar ones might come later) so it is worth considering it. Opponent can choose so most of the time it will be a bad card but if it has a potential somewhere for dealing with enchantments it is in POX shell.
    According to scryfall, the card isn't legal in any format. Is that an error?
    One Liliana to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all to the Sinkhole Wasteland!

  4. #4664

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by OmniStrata View Post
    According to scryfall, the card isn't legal in any format. Is that an error?
    Probably just because it hasn't been released yet. Once it does I'm sure it will update. Other new C19 cards say the same thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lav Dafka View Post
    I kept hearing random people around the room saying "manaless dredge!" like a sort of "hide your wives and your daughters, grab your pitchforks, say your prayers, the Beast is back" reaction.

  5. #4665
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by OmniStrata View Post
    According to scryfall, the card isn't legal in any format. Is that an error?
    Well C19 comes out this Friday, so they aren't released yet. Probably that.

    Doing some testing with Scroll of Fate, hasn't been as impactful as I'd have liked it to be, at least not as a 4-of.
    Comes across like Crucible of Worlds, when it sticks and is good in the game, like enabling a Waste-lock or allowing advantageous combats recurring Factories, then it;s the best card ever.
    Other times it just sort of sits there, while we wilt away against better draws and better threats.

    Yes in multiples you can just Manifest the other, but in too many games I would need something immediate, an answer to SFM or Dreadhorde Arcanist about to take over the game for example.
    So when I draw 1 Scroll of Fate then see another, seems in many cases any of the 3-ofs in the list that could be 4-ofs would have been better served there.

    I'm going to trim back to 2 copies and continue games to see what the balance should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  6. #4666
    Darth Poxious

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    Well C19 comes out this Friday, so they aren't released yet. Probably that.

    Doing some testing with Scroll of Fate, hasn't been as impactful as I'd have liked it to be, at least not as a 4-of.
    Comes across like Crucible of Worlds, when it sticks and is good in the game, like enabling a Waste-lock or allowing advantageous combats recurring Factories, then it;s the best card ever.
    Other times it just sort of sits there, while we wilt away against better draws and better threats.

    Yes in multiples you can just Manifest the other, but in too many games I would need something immediate, an answer to SFM or Dreadhorde Arcanist about to take over the game for example.
    So when I draw 1 Scroll of Fate then see another, seems in many cases any of the 3-ofs in the list that could be 4-ofs would have been better served there.

    I'm going to trim back to 2 copies and continue games to see what the balance should be.
    And that's why we do fun-ofs. I'm fine with just one Crucible, one Nether Void, 1 MD Liliana, the Last Hope. The inherent weakness of Scroll of Fate in Pox, much like any other card choice, is that it doesn't follow the 3 commandments: deals damage, provides mana, disrupt the opponent. Crucible does all of the above depending on your utility lands - Mishra's Factory, Urborg, Cabal Pit come to mind. The killer land at this point would be EtB tapped & target player discards a card. I'd only run 1 Scroll of Fate. But doesn't it synergize with Cursed Scroll? No blockers = 4 damage for 3 cmc.
    One Liliana to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all to the Sinkhole Wasteland!

  7. #4667

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I don't think pox runs Never//Return anymore, but just in case someone does we have a new-ish version of it:


    Text:

    Adventure: Swift End, instant - 1BB
    Destroy target creature or PW, you lose 2 life.

    Creature part:
    Murderous rider - 1BB - 2/3 Lifelink. When it dies,t put it on the bottom of your library.


    I don't know that this is enough to help with late game attrition, but letting it sit in exile, untouchable, might be useful in certain builds. Likely for the mono-black crowd if i had to guess.
    If nothing else, I think the promo art looks cool!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lav Dafka View Post
    I kept hearing random people around the room saying "manaless dredge!" like a sort of "hide your wives and your daughters, grab your pitchforks, say your prayers, the Beast is back" reaction.

  8. #4668

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by ronco View Post
    I don't think pox runs Never//Return anymore, but just in case someone does we have a new-ish version of it:


    Text:

    Adventure: Swift End, instant - 1BB
    Destroy target creature or PW, you lose 2 life.

    Creature part:
    Murderous rider - 1BB - 2/3 Lifelink. When it dies,t put it on the bottom of your library.


    I don't know that this is enough to help with late game attrition, but letting it sit in exile, untouchable, might be useful in certain builds. Likely for the mono-black crowd if i had to guess.
    If nothing else, I think the promo art looks cool!
    Awkwardly if it gets discarded or countered it sits as a creature in the GY and disables Nether Spirit, which is something to consider.
    Last Hope can return it if that does happen though, which is something I guess

  9. #4669
    Darth Poxious

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    Awkwardly if it gets discarded or countered it sits as a creature in the GY and disables Nether Spirit, which is something to consider.
    Last Hope can return it if that does happen though, which is something I guess
    A reusable Hero's Downfall that's a Lifelinking 3/2 at worst? I'll try 2. I'm using Eternal God Bontu in my Nether Spirit slot so creatures in the yard are no longer an issue for me. Main decking 2 Liliana, the Last Hope ensures late game dominance.
    One Liliana to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all to the Sinkhole Wasteland!

  10. #4670

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by OmniStrata View Post
    A reusable Hero's Downfall that's a Lifelinking 3/2 at worst? I'll try 2. I'm using Eternal God Bontu in my Nether Spirit slot so creatures in the yard are no longer an issue for me. Main decking 2 Liliana, the Last Hope ensures late game dominance.
    The awkward thing then is that if everything works successfully, then when the Knight dies you can't actually re-use it because it tucks itself
    A bit of a catch-22

  11. #4671

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Its probably a puny 1/1, but bloodghast builds might be interested (pre-grave hate sideboarding at least).



    Ayara, First of Lockthwain. BBB. Elf Noble.
    Whenever ~ or another black creature ETB under your control, each opponent loses 1 life and you gain 1 life.
    T, sac another black creature - draw a card.

    Manaless dredge might be interested in this one as well. Downside if you put plague/engineer on elves, you might negate this card, depending on its toughness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lav Dafka View Post
    I kept hearing random people around the room saying "manaless dredge!" like a sort of "hide your wives and your daughters, grab your pitchforks, say your prayers, the Beast is back" reaction.

  12. #4672
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    scroll of fate is a way to feed a contamination lock by providing a creature each turn

  13. #4673

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    So, how about Fires of Invention in B/R pox?

  14. #4674

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Pittplayer View Post
    So, how about Fires of Invention in B/R pox?
    By the time you can expect to play a 4-mana enchantment in pox both players hands are probably near-empty, and if you're topdecking then this card doesn't really do anything, because any spell that could be cast with its ability could be cast from lands instead. It's nice that it lets you play spells for free while you keep your mana open for Mishra's Factory / Cursed Scroll activations but it doesn't seem worth spending 4 mana and a card for this effect. It would probably be better just to have a card like Coercive Portal / Bottled Cloister

  15. #4675

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Taking a depths flavor of pox to the weekly Monday, inspired by a list i found in here a while back. Have the following list.



    4 crop rotation
    3 inquisition of Kozilek
    3 hymn to tourach
    4 smallpox
    2 cabal therapy
    4 lili of the veil
    3 abrupt decay
    3 entomb
    2 life from the loam
    1 toxic deluge
    1 ravens crime
    1 nether spirit
    1 darkblast
    1 pernicious deed

    1 tabernacle at pendrell vale
    1 cabal pit
    4 wasteland
    3 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
    4 verdant catacomb
    1 bloodstained mire
    1 polluted delta
    1 dark depths
    2 swamp
    1 forest
    4 bayou
    2 thespian's stage
    1 mishra's factory
    1 bojuka bog


    board:

    1 golgari brownscale
    1 bontu's reckoning
    2 surgical extraction
    2 engineered plague
    1 leyline of the void
    1 krosan reclamation
    1 coffin purge
    1 sadistic sacrament
    1 damping sphere
    1 choke
    1 pithing needle
    1 lost legacy
    1 <open>

    The deck definitely has a toolbox feel to it, as does the sideboard. I can probably get away with swapping Thoughtsieze for IoK but other than that, any late suggestions that might be a good idea? I'm thinking the board will be -brownscale, + leyline and + another bontu or deluge.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lav Dafka View Post
    I kept hearing random people around the room saying "manaless dredge!" like a sort of "hide your wives and your daughters, grab your pitchforks, say your prayers, the Beast is back" reaction.

  16. #4676

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quick results.
    R1 vs burn. W 2-1
    R2 vs Red Prison, L 1-2
    R3 vs Snow Aluren combo W 2-1.
    Final 2-1.
    Took 3rd on breakers in an 8 person weekly.

    Decks represented: Maverick, Pox, RUG Dreadhorde arcanist (with shardless), BUG snow Aluren, burn, I think a jund deck, I think a lands deck, and not sure on the last one.

    R1 burn g1 vs Ward, on the draw
    he takes early fetch damage, drops a Taylor swiftspear and starts doing burn things. I eventually small pox it away taking advantage of raven's crime and a decently high land count to buy a few extra turns. He gets me down to 10 and i was able to summon the Marit Lage. He could get me down to 1 i think. Just barely got by.
    R1 G2 he's on the play, He gets his swiftspear in play again and again it gets dealt with shortly thereafter. I try to assemble the combo but he wastelands at the appropriate time. He only takes fetch damage and bolts me for the win.
    R1 G3 he starts off with a soul scar mage and i small pox that away and follow up with factory beats for a bit. He eventually gets me down to 3 life and i'm swinging in with factory and he hast a wasteland up. I keep stage and mana up to copy in response should I need to. He blanks on his draws i think 3-4 turns in a row somehow which is enough for the factory to finish him off.

    R2 g1 vs red prison.
    He starts off with chalice on 1, i follow up with a factory. He comes back with a chalice on 2 whit some sol lands. I get a lili going and start ticking up and discarding a spirit to get that clock going. I get lili up to 7 (wanted to ult and keep her) but he lands a rabblemaster and comes back at lili with the token. So I ult her and split his chalices (I had small pox and 2 crop rotations, so either would have been fine to regain the game). He kept chalice on 1, so I small poxed away the rest of his guys and then go in with the spirit. He tries to bridge him off but it doesn't work as he doesn't fine lands and his hand gets too big.

    R2g2, t1 chalice on 1, t2 blood moon. I dig and dig for basics and i don't really find what i need (abrupt decay). Was hunted by a couple of SSgs that I was eventually able to dispatch, but Chandra kills me after.

    R2 g3, we start off and he t0 double leyline. I hymn him and get some good stuff, but he has a Chandra again and i can't do much to interact with that (or the moon) and i just die 2 points at a time.

    R3, g1 vs aluren. Didn't take many notes so going off memory.
    I start off with Iok then a hymn and do lots of pox things. I am able to get in with factory and/or double factory (thanks to stage) all the way down to 5, then he pulled off the combo. I had a pretty big misplay, as i had threshold, mana, and a cabal pit in play that MIGHT have been able to disrupt the combo. He was at 5, then took himself down to 1 with beast activations and I think i have the timing window to -2/-2 a key part. Maybe not. It wound up not mattering in the end but he gets me there.

    R3g2 I get quick disruption again and drop a lili that he lets resolve. After a few upticks and getting a few lands blown up he concedes to the lili lock. I think i had my loam in the yard to boot, but i can't recall.

    R3g3 we slug it out for the "win and in" for top 4. I wish i had better notes because there was a lot of back and forth in this game. Lots of disruption followed by his drawing to try and dig out of it. I have crop rotation, lili, and a few other spells in hand when he drops a spyglass. Naturally he names lili (he had not seen the depth's package yet, but had suspected it). Unfortunately for him my next card off the top is stage so i drop it and clear the coast for the rotation into depths. I get it and the creature comes out. He manages to get his aluren but no combo. He drops a 2 coatls, a clique and i think another flyer in the process of his digging really worrying me he'd find his combo. Once again i forget that i have cabal pit to take care of the surprise blocker, so after 3 of these getting flashed in i wise up and crop rotate for it and take care of him. This was a real fun match up and a real fun game.

    Also, props to the neoform player for giving me a jump as my truck battery or alternator decided to crap out. Some misplays today but overall had fun. Got some props on the deck which is always nice and the people were good too and as always, got to play new decks i hadn't played against before. Legacy is awesome!

    edit: fixed spelling/grammar errors.
    Last edited by ronco; 09-17-2019 at 10:09 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lav Dafka View Post
    I kept hearing random people around the room saying "manaless dredge!" like a sort of "hide your wives and your daughters, grab your pitchforks, say your prayers, the Beast is back" reaction.

  17. #4677
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    This card seems like it could be alright in pox:

    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

  18. #4678

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Yup, that land is definitely solid
    Almost certainly better than the Mikokoro some people have been using in the past (and also better than Geier Reach Sanitarium unless you are trying to combo it with Chains of Mephistopheles)

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