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Thread: [Primer/Deck] Pox

  1. #4801
    Darth Poxious

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    I'm afraid I won't get to BBRR for Kroxa with Pox effects. It's absolutely backbreaking and all my creatures are resistant to it, so I'd like to run it, but how do you deal with the land loss though.

    PS: Graven Cairns is in the deck over Urborg because of the need to generate BB and RR for Hymn, Skelemental and Kroxa in case people were wondering.
    I'd trade Davriel for Crucible of Worlds. Just need to get to it slowly as the dual mana base won't like Dark Ritual. Or maybe Mox Diamonds? The discarding wouldn't mean anything after all once the Crucible sticks
    One Liliana to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all into the Sinkhole Wasteland!

  2. #4802
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I had to quit Legacy for a few years and now i have enough time to play some again. Since i am far from being up to date with the format and quite rusty, i decided to play a deck that i like instead of playing the most competitive ones. Well, here i am trying again mono black POX. I did some search and found a list that did some results and that looks interesting :

    https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=23903&d=366362

    LANDS
    2 Blast Zone
    1 Thespian's Stage
    9 Snow-Covered Swamp
    4 Wasteland
    3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    2 Mishra's Factory
    2 Maze of Ith
    1 Cabal Pit
    1 Karakas
    1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    1 Castle Locthwain

    OTHER
    2 Bitterblossom
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    2 Crucible of Worlds
    3 Innocent Blood
    1 Beseech the Queen
    4 Liliana of the Veil
    2 Liliana, the Last Hope
    1 Ashiok, Dream Render
    3 Dark Ritual
    3 Liliana's Triumph
    4 Smallpox
    4 Thoughtseize
    3 Hymn to Tourach

    SIDEBOARD
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Sorcerous Spyglass
    2 Chains of Mephistopheles
    2 Dark Confidant
    4 Leyline of the Void
    2 Engineered Plague
    1 Ensnaring Bridge

    I did a few tests and the list is nice. However i have some questions about several card choices :
    - Tabernacle MD is strange since we run bitterblossom and Liliana, the last hope. I presume it is a metagame call and my first guess would be to put it on sideboard.
    - Thespian's stage can be a useful tool but every time i drew it i would rather have any other land.
    - I did not test much SB yet but i am a bit surprised by Leyline : are there so many graveyard strategies that we need 4 slots for them ?
    - Dark confident is not very friendly with innocent blood.
    - Chains are a nice card that i love but every time i tested in Legacy, i have been disapointed.

    The deck faired quite well so i presume its pilot thought a lot about each choice. So, what am i missing and more generally what do you think about that list ?

  3. #4803
    Darth Poxious

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Albarkhane View Post
    I did a few tests and the list is nice. However i have some questions about several card choices :
    - Tabernacle MD is strange since we run bitterblossom and Liliana, the last hope. I presume it is a metagame call and my first guess would be to put it on sideboard.
    - Thespian's stage can be a useful tool but every time i drew it i would rather have any other land.
    - I did not test much SB yet but i am a bit surprised by Leyline : are there so many graveyard strategies that we need 4 slots for them ?
    - Dark confident is not very friendly with innocent blood.
    - Chains are a nice card that i love but every time i tested in Legacy, i have been disapointed.

    The deck faired quite well so i presume its pilot thought a lot about each choice. So, what am i missing and more generally what do you think about that list ?
    1. You can choose to play Tabernacle if you need defense or Smallpox/Wasteland it away when Emblem or Bitterblossom is online.
    2. Stage looks like a great way to steal enemy Marit Lage wins or be an extra copy of any land in your own deck. Extra Wastelands or Locthwains?
    3. Leyline is the most powerful GY hate so far. Problem is the opening hand requirement, hence 4 I think.
    4. Side out IB for Bob?
    5. Chains is best after hellbent or when a Jace is online.
    One Liliana to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all into the Sinkhole Wasteland!

  4. #4804
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by OmniStrata View Post
    1. You can choose to play Tabernacle if you need defense or Smallpox/Wasteland it away when Emblem or Bitterblossom is online.
    2. Stage looks like a great way to steal enemy Marit Lage wins or be an extra copy of any land in your own deck. Extra Wastelands or Locthwains?
    3. Leyline is the most powerful GY hate so far. Problem is the opening hand requirement, hence 4 I think.
    4. Side out IB for Bob?
    5. Chains is best after hellbent or when a Jace is online.
    Thank you for your answer.

    I agree that Tabernacle is a strong card and there are indeed ways to get around but there will be a few games when you won't able to. I mean it produces some tension in the deck and i rather fight opponent deck than mine. I like that this deck is using Emblem and bitterblossom as kill so because of that tension i am wondering if Tabernacle is important enough in the current meta to keep it main deck.

    I am not sure you would steal a lot of Marit Lage against a good player, but i agree Stage can help to slow down opponent. Basically it is a nice tool to have but i am not sure so far that it is worth its slot. I will test it more.

    Your answer about Chains ring a bell and maybe i was too greeding when using it. I will give it a second try.

  5. #4805

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    If you like emblem and bitterblossom there was some discussion (and a bit of controversy provided by yours truly) a few pages back. Its technically a poxless pox deck, or maybe MBC, but you might like it. 5-0 an event recently.

    Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  6. #4806
    Darth Poxious

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Could we update the first page? With the new cards and working links? Just asking...
    One Liliana to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all into the Sinkhole Wasteland!

  7. #4807
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Hi Dudes!

    I have the great news. :) The prophecy from high school told that if the Mono Black Control wins the big tournament World will be over and... Pox inspired deck wins 60 players tournament. :)

    1/60 - 19 Jan 2020

    https://mtgdecks.net/Legacy/mono-bla...gorecki-921277

    Lands 22

    9 Swamp
    4 Wasteland
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Maze of Ith
    2 Castle Locthwain
    1 Blast Zone
    1 Bojuka Bog

    Creatures 3

    3 Murderous Rider

    Instants & Sorceries 22

    2 Fatal Push
    1 Innocent Blood
    4 Liliana's Triumph

    4 Thoughtseize
    2 Inquisition of Kozilek
    3 Hymn to Tourach

    1 Noxious Revival
    1 Mastermind's Acquisition

    4 Dark Ritual

    Enchantments 4

    3 Bitterblossom
    1 Dreadhorde Invasion

    Planewalkers 9

    4 Ashiok, Dream Render
    3 Liliana of the Veil
    2 Liliana, the Last Hope

    Sideboard

    4 Leyline of the Void
    2 Plague Engineer
    1 Extirpate
    1 Surgical Extraction

    2 Pithing Needle
    1 Null Rod
    2 Ratchet Bomb
    2 Ensnaring Bridge

    Enjoy! I think upgrading by SmallPox or Pox is possible here if you are great fans, but... this deck is in based on "pox". :)

  8. #4808

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I think that's the list that got discussed a few pages back. I ran it in a local and despite me playing like a maroon it was a very strong deck.
    I dont think it can take on small pox the card without added in a few more lands. Lilis triumph is a very good substitute and cansometimes be asymmetrical. A deck that can leverage smallpox and lili triumph might be a good awful deck to play against!

    Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  9. #4809
    A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry.
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    My playgroup has been building to beat Oko without anyone actually running many Oko decks, so it's difficult to state definitively, but I feel now more is the time for Nether Spirit to really shine. Keeping them off creatures locks his loyalty at 5 and he's an awful Elk target, all upside for us. As long as we can dodge a counterspell he plays nice with Murderous Rider as well. I've been trying to tweak some sort of snow-control Rotting Regisaur high impact spell type of pile, but I'm thinking it's time to pivot back to the slow, grindy types of lists from my youth.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  10. #4810
    Darth Poxious

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    My playgroup has been building to beat Oko without anyone actually running many Oko decks, so it's difficult to state definitively, but I feel now more is the time for Nether Spirit to really shine. Keeping them off creatures locks his loyalty at 5 and he's an awful Elk target, all upside for us. As long as we can dodge a counterspell he plays nice with Murderous Rider as well. I've been trying to tweak some sort of snow-control Rotting Regisaur high impact spell type of pile, but I'm thinking it's time to pivot back to the slow, grindy types of lists from my youth.
    Woot! Amen to that. Perhaps an idea for you:

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/2218439#paper

    Bring in the Riders and remove Ashiok/Dark Rituals depending on the match.

    I like this against Miracles. Just saying.
    One Liliana to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all into the Sinkhole Wasteland!

  11. #4811
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Working on on a Dark Depths build. I essentially replaced the Tombstalkers with
    DD and hexmages, keeping the Bloodghasts and Shrieking Afflictions. Not bad. Hexmages have been useful.
    I also have av copy of Grim Discovery in the deck.

    Next idea is to add a second Buried Alive and Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis !
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    hardcore is our resident aggro pox master, hopefully he can help you

    "Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux

  12. #4812
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by OmniStrata View Post
    Could we update the first page? With the new cards and working links? Just asking...
    Feline(op) actually quit this one ages ago and won't edit it.
    We could always start a new thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    hardcore is our resident aggro pox master, hopefully he can help you

    "Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux

  13. #4813
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I put a message up in the moderator forum about helping out with old primers. So far the best option mentioned is to just start a new thread. I can archive this old one for posterity.

    It might be easiest to copy/paste the primer in the OP, edit it where fitting, and then just give credit to feline for writing the original primer. This way whomever starts the new thread, and is active, can make OP changes as needed.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  14. #4814

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post
    Working on on a Dark Depths build. I essentially replaced the Tombstalkers with
    DD and hexmages, keeping the Bloodghasts and Shrieking Afflictions. Not bad. Hexmages have been useful.
    I also have av copy of Grim Discovery in the deck.

    Next idea is to add a second Buried Alive and Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis !
    Long time no see Hardcore. Sounds like your DD build is mono black (aside from Hogaak)?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  15. #4815
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by ronco View Post
    Long time no see Hardcore. Sounds like your DD build is mono black (aside from Hogaak)?
    Yeah, I have tried splashing red occasionally, and even white for Kaya, Ghost Assassin, but mono B is mono B.
    Funny thing; whenever I try splashing I get me opponents that mana screw me one way or another.


    Anyway should post the list here.

    CREATURES (9)
    4 Bloodghast]
    4 Vampire Hexmage
    1 Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis
    ENCHANTMENTS (4)
    4 Shrieking Affliction
    SORCERIES (15)
    2 Buried Alive
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Smallpox
    4 Pox
    1 Grim Discovery
    PLANESWALKERS (5)
    4 Liliana of the Veil
    1 Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord
    LANDS (27)
    4 Dark Depths
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Polluted Delta
    12 Swamp
    4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

    SIDEBOARD (15)
    4 Engineered Plague
    4 Leyline of the Void
    3 Ratchet Bomb
    4 Pithing Needle

    Hogaak and Sorin are latest, untested, addition to the build.
    One thing i noticed so far is that I don't really worry about wasteland and such. I just find another way to win.
    The sideboard could use an overhaul.
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    hardcore is our resident aggro pox master, hopefully he can help you

    "Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux

  16. #4816

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I have been thinking a lot about the Veil of Summer issue, and it recently struck me that with a classic landkill/prison pox the Veil is less of an issue if you can tap them out. I mean the card has receded anyway a tad, but i would still like to improve the odds.
    A lot of lists seem to head towards Chalice, but I have gone towards Tanglewire.



    3 Castle locthwain
    1 Ifnir Deadlands
    8 Swamp
    4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    3 Wasteland
    3 Mishra's factory
    1 Blast zone
    1 Maze of Ith

    2 Thoughtseize
    4 Dark ritual
    1 Cursed Scroll
    1 Cling To Dust

    4 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Sinkhole
    4 Small Pox
    1 Bitterblossom
    1 Sorcerous Spyglass

    4 Tangle wire
    3 Liliana of the Veil
    1 Phyrexian Totem
    1 Toxic Deluge
    2 Ashiok, Dream Render
    1 Liliana, the Last Hope
    1 Plague Engineer
    1 Nether Void

    //sideboard
    1 Plague engineer
    2 Chains of Mephistopheles
    1 Bitterblossom
    2 Dystopia
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    2 Dampening sphere
    4 Leyline of the Void
    2 Null Rod


    I have added the miser's copy of Spyglass main for Oko, but it is significant in my Depths/DnT heavy meta anyway. Having more permanents to tap at 2 cc makes the Tangle wire better in any case, and every now and then it works be hitting fetches in hand.
    The Tangle wire really helps both Sinkhole by tapping fetches for Wasteland and discard, and Bitterblossom plays well with Tangle wire too if you stack it right. Against Mox diamond decks I remove Scroll and Totem, and bring in Null Rod, even if they just have 4 targets. It is amazing how often they escape from zero lands due to Mox, and shutting it off really helps. Null rod works with Tangle wire early doors too, another 2cc permanent to tap. I no longer have storm in my meta, but would fancy my chances with 4 Leyline, 2 Null rod and 2 damepening sphere plus Chains. Chains works ok with Lockthwain and a card in hand.
    I have felt for while that Lilly is now a 3 of, the card is just not what it was. I almost never want to ritual into her and activate upwards, a Tangelwire or Ashiok is normally better t1/2. Wasteland too is worse than it once was, thanks to Labe, so I have gone to 3. I am playing fast and loose with the land count, my mono B control deck cousin runs 27, if I had to run one more I would cut an Ashiok, which is very binary. Cling to dust is superb. No Taby due to Bitterblossom, but in the right environment I would add it to the board over BB no 2. Dystopia has been great- we have local elves, depths, Nic fit and Mentor bant oko Miracles players, and always D n T players in multiples, plus a sometimes aluren players too. I even loaned out enchantress recently, so Dystopia stays for sure.

    The deck plays as a tempo deck often, sneaking ahead under the T wire. I don't miss the old wastelock with crucible, and I feel I have a better chance with this build in a world of Oko and Veil.

  17. #4817

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by drmarkb View Post
    I have been thinking a lot about the Veil of Summer issue, and it recently struck me that with a classic landkill/prison pox the Veil is less of an issue if you can tap them out. I mean the card has receded anyway a tad, but i would still like to improve the odds.
    A lot of lists seem to head towards Chalice, but I have gone towards Tanglewire.



    3 Castle locthwain
    1 Ifnir Deadlands
    8 Swamp
    4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    3 Wasteland
    3 Mishra's factory
    1 Blast zone
    1 Maze of Ith

    2 Thoughtseize
    4 Dark ritual
    1 Cursed Scroll
    1 Cling To Dust

    4 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Sinkhole
    4 Small Pox
    1 Bitterblossom
    1 Sorcerous Spyglass

    4 Tangle wire
    3 Liliana of the Veil
    1 Phyrexian Totem
    1 Toxic Deluge
    2 Ashiok, Dream Render
    1 Liliana, the Last Hope
    1 Plague Engineer
    1 Nether Void

    //sideboard
    1 Plague engineer
    2 Chains of Mephistopheles
    1 Bitterblossom
    2 Dystopia
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    2 Dampening sphere
    4 Leyline of the Void
    2 Null Rod


    I have added the miser's copy of Spyglass main for Oko, but it is significant in my Depths/DnT heavy meta anyway. Having more permanents to tap at 2 cc makes the Tangle wire better in any case, and every now and then it works be hitting fetches in hand.
    The Tangle wire really helps both Sinkhole by tapping fetches for Wasteland and discard, and Bitterblossom plays well with Tangle wire too if you stack it right. Against Mox diamond decks I remove Scroll and Totem, and bring in Null Rod, even if they just have 4 targets. It is amazing how often they escape from zero lands due to Mox, and shutting it off really helps. Null rod works with Tangle wire early doors too, another 2cc permanent to tap. I no longer have storm in my meta, but would fancy my chances with 4 Leyline, 2 Null rod and 2 damepening sphere plus Chains. Chains works ok with Lockthwain and a card in hand.
    I have felt for while that Lilly is now a 3 of, the card is just not what it was. I almost never want to ritual into her and activate upwards, a Tangelwire or Ashiok is normally better t1/2. Wasteland too is worse than it once was, thanks to Labe, so I have gone to 3. I am playing fast and loose with the land count, my mono B control deck cousin runs 27, if I had to run one more I would cut an Ashiok, which is very binary. Cling to dust is superb. No Taby due to Bitterblossom, but in the right environment I would add it to the board over BB no 2. Dystopia has been great- we have local elves, depths, Nic fit and Mentor bant oko Miracles players, and always D n T players in multiples, plus a sometimes aluren players too. I even loaned out enchantress recently, so Dystopia stays for sure.

    The deck plays as a tempo deck often, sneaking ahead under the T wire. I don't miss the old wastelock with crucible, and I feel I have a better chance with this build in a world of Oko and Veil.
    Do you have writeups with this deck? I picked up a set of tangles recently because I thought stax and pox had enough of an overlap in resource choking that it might be worth to experiment but I havent gotten around to it. Curious how you've been playing it, since I never have! Although at 4 mana its much more expensive, any thoughts on Karn, TCG for shutting off opponent artifacts like moxes and labes? One sided and gives you tutor options if you need them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  18. #4818

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by ronco View Post
    Do you have writeups with this deck? I picked up a set of tangles recently because I thought stax and pox had enough of an overlap in resource choking that it might be worth to experiment but I havent gotten around to it. Curious how you've been playing it, since I never have! Although at 4 mana its much more expensive, any thoughts on Karn, TCG for shutting off opponent artifacts like moxes and labes? One sided and gives you tutor options if you need them.
    Not really any write ups, sadly. I play in 3 places- one is here on the very west of the UK, which is a pretty small scene. Then larger and further afield I play in 10-15 player FNMs and make the trip to England to play in 20-30+ player events. So far Pox has only come out locally in its current Tangle form. Covid 19 has stopped the meet ups now. I have some decent experiences of a few matches, whilst others are only from jamming before and after draft. I do play Mono B leyline of the void helm, it is one of my go to REL comp decks, and have often played that at bigger events- that is a karn deck of course, so I do know how well the deck supports it. What gave me success with 3 karns was not playing it as if it were Pox- smallpox is simply unplayable if you have a very large 4 slot, at which point you are just not playing Pox. I also ran 27 lands in that, and yes some are Taby/Maze which only make mana under Urborg TOY, but a high land count is essential for that deck. From my experience of that deck I would consider one or two karn main deck with the Tangle Pox list above (keeping smallpox, sinkhole et al), but would increase the land count by one. I think the 2 karns would go in over Spyglass, and 1 of the Ashioks, whilst the other Ashiok would have to be a land, and the N void would probably be better as a 3ball, animate-able and won't interfere with Karn GTC being cast like Nether void does. The board would probably have to squeeze in Lattice, Liquimetal Coating, Bridge, needle/spyglass as a minimum, maybe a Helm too for quick wins vs Graveyard decks like loam, and possibly any number of others like Crucible or even Trading Post, Chailce, Cursed Totem etc.. It may not even support Lattice.
    I certainly can report that with the Tangle Pox list I run the traditional matches that are good, like Delver, Infect, Enchantress etc. are not worse (well infect is a tad due to me not running edict effects), whilst the BUG zenith Oko and Snow UWx are even better.

  19. #4819

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Thanks for the response. What kind of matchups do you find yourself taking tangles out g2 and 3 (if ever)? If you have the option of lili or tangle on turn 3, do you gravitate towards one or the other? Sorry if these are dumb questions, just trying best to understand how the deck plays out. I'm not the greatest at looking at lists and figuring these things out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  20. #4820
    Darth Poxious

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Can Tanglewire, Winter Orb, Howling Mine and Smokestack combo for extreme permanent based resource denial and card advantage? But it's so many slots...
    One Liliana to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all into the Sinkhole Wasteland!

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